"Wow I never noticed that" v.2

[PeterPaulGualtieri]

I can't remember Stannis complaining about Jon Arryn being Hand. I think the complaint was that Robert chose Ned as his hand after Jon Arryn died.

You are correct. My bad on that. Still, Stannis and Maekar would be a fun conversation to read about!

[GoldenHand at SnowCastle]

I never noticed how similar the story arcs of Jaime and Loras are until recently as I am re-reading ASOS, in a Jaime's chapter, where he repeatedly mentioned that Loras was exactly like his younger self.

And I was like "Exactly!!"

So both were very handsome looking and gallant, extremely good with swords, and achieved fame & titles at an early age. (Jaime became one of the KG at 15, Loras 17.)

Both had very "distinctive" preferences in terms of lovers that were seen as unacceptable by the majority of the public, but the reality of both had been secretly exposed to some people and became scandals. (Jaime and incest, Loras and homosexual behaviors)

Both were very, very loyal to their lovers. (Jaime had only bedded Cersei in all his life, and Loras had that famous quote of "candles and the sun" after Renly died)

Both were pretty much proud, full-of-themselves assholes in youth.

Both had been quite hot-headed and emotional rather than rational.

Both were permanently creepled / disfigured in trauma. (Jaime lost one hand, Loras disfigured)

...

So that left me wondering... Would they sort of end up in similar ways as well? Any thoughts?

[himdraug]

So that left me wondering... Would they sort of end up in similar ways as well? Any thoughts?

I think Jaime who is considered a scumbag by most of Westeros will turn out to be a hero, while Loras who is "perfect knight" will turn out to be total asshole.

Details pending, but knowing GRRM that's how it'll end.

[Winter's Knight]

I don't think Loras has Jaime's immorality or heedlessness of other people. Remember, one of the very first things we see him do is have Sandor declared the winner after the later saved his life. You could argue that it was calculated to make him look good but, seriously, the kid was sixteen and slightly concussed and he's not the sharpest tool at the best of times.

[Targaryyen]

I didn't realize the deserter from the Night's Watch was the one who escaped the Others.

[coil]

Never realised this.

Good catch, but... Barristan and Belwas are Varys' agents?! Proof, proof, I need proof!

A bad choice of words from mine, I think. Change 'agents' with 'pawns', if you want... always considering that LF said to Alayne that pawns, from time to time, "move on their own".

Varys/Illyrio sent Belwas and Barristan to protect Daenerys, but most importantly to urge her to come to Westeros.

Barristan is there because of his famous name and because he knows about armies and Westerosi stuff (too bad Dany doesn't put it to use that much, beside some little stories she doesn't even want to fully listen), Belwas for protection.

Cohincidentally, they both save Dany from poisoning as well as Jorah did in the past!

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yup, completely missed it. While I think the song has been around longer than Jorah and his wife fiasco (correct me on this if I'm wrong) the allegory never ocurred to me.

No, you are right. The song has been around much longer. :) I believe Dunk hears people sing it in one of the Dunk & Egg stories.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

For the longest time, I completely missed the underlying implications of this scene. They're in Vaes Dothrak here. Dany just shed blood in Vaes Dothrak! Had she gone through with her threats to Viserys---calling her khas, telling Khal Drogo what had happened---Dany would have likely been condemning herself to death, though she never seems to realize it.

That's a great catch; wonder if it will end up meaning anything. And such a fuss is made about Drogo killing Viserys with the gold because it was bloodless.

[GallowsKnight]

Yup, completely missed it. While I think the song has been around longer than Jorah and his wife fiasco (correct me on this if I'm wrong) the allegI ory never ocurred to me.

It is. They sing it in Dunk and Egg, 100years prior.

What took me forever to realise is that it's about oral sex.

[Rooseman]

This is embarassing, but I didn't realize that "Hands of Gold" was specifically about Tyrion and Shae until someone pointed it out somewhere. Rereading the scene where Symon sings it to him, I don't know how I could have been so blind, it's so painfully obvious.

When Tyrion said that he never wanted to hear that song again, I thought he was just being rude.

[the Scorpion Knight]

You are correct. My bad on that. Still, Stannis and Maekar would be a fun conversation to read about!

well considering they are gret great grandfather and and great great grandson it 's actualyy not surprising

[The Crow's Third Eye]

It is. They sing it in Dunk and Egg, 100years prior.

What took me forever to realise is that it's about oral sex.

Is it? I never got that and just read it on the wiki and still don't see it....explain?

[Winter's Knight]

Is it? I never got that and just read it on the wiki and still don't see it....explain?

"He licked the honey from her hair", just not necessarily from her head.

[Kevvy]

When Jaime returns to rescue Brienne at Harrenhal; he cups his hands together to shout up to the watchman... except by this point he's lost one hand.

[RumHam]

When Jaime returns to rescue Brienne at Harrenhal; he cups his hands together to shout up to the watchman... except by this point he's lost one hand.

Not a mistake. He just held onto his severed hand and used that. Give me a second to find the SSM.

[Tetrarch42]

I did not notice that part of Cersei's "tears-and-sex-are-a-woman's-weapon" philosophy comes from her mother.

Also noticed on a reread: Cersei can't have disliked Tyrin that much pre-Feast-she certainly made no effort to keep her children away from him.

She pinched his penis until he cried as an infant, she's always abused him and found him contemptible.

[Winter's Knight]

She pinched his penis until he cried as an infant, she's always abused him and found him contemptible.

You'll note that Tyrion never recalls any physical abuse.

8 (9?) year old Cersei hurting a new sibling who her father blames for her mother's death actually is a fairly common and normal reaction, even among kids whose mothers have not died in childbirth.

What an awkward sentence that is! And I cannot, for the life of me, fix it right now.

[Tetrarch42]

You'll note that Tyrion never recalls any physical abuse.

8 (9?) year old Cersei hurting a new sibling who her father blames for her mother's death actually is a fairly common and normal reaction, even among kids whose mothers have not died in childbirth.

What an awkward sentence that is! And I cannot, for the life of me, fix it right now.

The fact that Tyrion doesn't recall the abuse or that her reaction is normal doesn't alter the fact that she did, indeed, harbour hate for Tyrion before their falling out in King's Landing.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

You'll note that Tyrion never recalls any physical abuse.

8 (9?) year old Cersei hurting a new sibling who her father blames for her mother's death actually is a fairly common and normal reaction, even among kids whose mothers have not died in childbirth.

What an awkward sentence that is! And I cannot, for the life of me, fix it right now.

I agree this is common in children even when their mother isnt dead, cause they are jealous that they will lose all the attention.

[Winter's Knight]

Oh I got it now. My previous post should read:

Hurting a new sibling is a fairly common reaction among kids and needs to be watched out for. The fact that Tywin blamed poor baby Tyrion for Joanna's death and openly disliked him certainly wouldn't have helped matters. It seems to be the only incident until she slaps him in aCoK.

She did abuse him verbally but then, I think he hit back too. <citation needed>

However-and note this-she left for KL at 12, when Tyrion was 2-3 years old and returned at 16 when Jaime was made KG. She left again two years later for KL-they barely lived together.