My Personal Predictions for the first part of the WoW

[Veltigar]

I will disagree with you on Oldtown though. You seem to ignore the fact that Leyton Hightower is building his forces and has been locked away studying who knows what in his tower for 10 years. He is up to something big. I personaly think he is in league with the Citadel and on his way to betray Aegon and kill all the dragons once and for all.

He's building up his forces, that's true. But he won't be able to increase them enough to repel the Ironborn. He just doesn't have enough time to get the required men and naval power.

I think you place to much faith in the Maesters and Leyton Hightower. I don't think they'll pull something like - I don't know gunpowder or mustard gas - out of their pockets. I'll bet the maesters either flee or die (I'm going with flee. I would love to see George writing on such an exodus). You think of Leyton Hightower as a noble man who will come down to save his city. I'm not certain he will, remember the story about Lord Quenton Hightower? I think that the old man will either die in his keep or otherwise take a run for it.

[Ser Fatso]

Interesting, i agree with some of the ideas but others still sound far fetched. I myself think that stannis is dead. Why? the northern clans were all about savings Neds girl not so much stannis as he is still a southerner who burns people alive. Now that Fake Arya has escaped there is no reason for them to fight for a king they do not like.

[King Tyrion VIII]

Great post OP :)

[Veltigar]

Interesting, i agree with some of the ideas but others still sound far fetched. I myself think that stannis is dead. Why? the northern clans were all about savings Neds girl not so much stannis as he is still a southerner who burns people alive. Now that Fake Arya has escaped there is no reason for them to fight for a king they do not like.

If they don't fight for Stannis, they would still fight for Farya against the Boltons. Stannis is an ally against Ramsay & Roose, so they would back him up.

[Veltigar]

Great post OP :)

Thank you :D

[Arya_Ghostface]

I'm not suggesting she should go Tywin Lannister on her people

Haha that post made me laugh :)

I'm not saying she should go Tywin Lannister, but what if she went Tyrion Lannister on her people? I was so struck by Tyrion's ruling skills in aCoK, he seems to me to be the only person out of all the characters of this era (to take Aegon V out of this) that seemed to know how to keep the delicate balances in the Red Keep. Kevan Lannister was good as well, but something tells me he would still put Lannister interests above the interest of the realm, whereas Tyrion seemed to think 'I've got to keep the show going somehow' and managed it. And where is Tyrion now? Supposing Daenerys returns to Meereen, they will meet up and she will have a chance to see for herself just how good this man is at ruling over fighting factions. I would love to see Tyrion setting Meereen to rights, getting rid of the Harpy whoever they are, then becoming Daenerys' Hand (I don't remember her naming one so far). Then, and only then, will I think of Dany as a worthy ruler. (Ned was compassionate too, look how good a Hand he made, he lost the plot from the word go :P)

I agree she needs some time to think things over, and learn a few more lessons before she can return to her people. Also, does anyone else think that the fact that Dany is now back on the Dothraki Sea reflects Quathe's advice? 'To go forward you must go back'. Surely returning to the Dothraki Sea can be considered 'going back'?

I like to think of the FM as rather powerful, so I am not sure Sam will manage to snatch a book from under Jaqen's nose. But what if they team up and work together, at least at first? (Another note, anyone noticed similarities of Sam Tarly to Sam Gamgee? The lotal (to Jon and the NW), rotund, timid character who likes a quiet life but is thrown into adventure and despite being scared and not so skilled in arms still manages to be the wisest and the most useful? I like Sam.)

I would simply love to see the maesters humiliated like Pycelle was by Tyrion. Because it appears to me like they took something good (the order of the maesters) and corrupted it with their own plans for power, and I would like to see it restored.

I'm not sure what Euron's game is, if I supported the ironborn it would only be just to see his plans progress and see what he's up to. Ever since I started reading I though the ironborn as losers, Balon was definately one, Theon before Reek was insufferable, Victarion seeks to marry a woman who is already married, and we know Dany will not take a liking to a man like him. Only Euron appears to know what he's doing and have some sort of plan. I am quite curious.

As for Arya, I think the fact that Arya and fArya are going to end up in the same place was made for a reason, Arya will see Jeyne and know she's faking to be her, and that will leas to some decision or other. It may be that Syrio will appear there somewhere (fingers crossed) but you can't be saying that Arya and fArya will just be in the same city and never meet?

That's all I can think of for now, I may come back later with more theories haha

[Lady Piper]

Loved reading these predictions! The well thought out speculation is much appreciated in these long months/years before the book comes out.

[Veltigar]

Loved reading these predictions! The well thought out speculation is much appreciated in these long months/years before the book comes out.

Thank you, it was fun making this. And I love discussing it, I came across a lot of interesting thoughts which if I ever start a rewrite will certainly find its way in it

[Veltigar]

Haha that post made me laugh :)

Glad you enjoyed it :thumbsup:

[Veltigar]

I'm not saying she should go Tywin Lannister, but what if she went Tyrion Lannister on her people? I was so struck by Tyrion's ruling skills in aCoK, he seems to me to be the only person out of all the characters of this era (to take Aegon V out of this) that seemed to know how to keep the delicate balances in the Red Keep. Kevan Lannister was good as well, but something tells me he would still put Lannister interests above the interest of the realm, whereas Tyrion seemed to think 'I've got to keep the show going somehow' and managed it. And where is Tyrion now? Supposing Daenerys returns to Meereen, they will meet up and she will have a chance to see for herself just how good this man is at ruling over fighting factions. I would love to see Tyrion setting Meereen to rights, getting rid of the Harpy whoever they are, then becoming Daenerys' Hand (I don't remember her naming one so far). Then, and only then, will I think of Dany as a worthy ruler. (Ned was compassionate too, look how good a Hand he made, he lost the plot from the word go :P)

Tyrion did everything for House Lannister, because he craved his fathers approval. He's a decent guy in my book, but I wouldn't say that he would put the Realm above the interests of House Lannister or himself. And he hit rock bottom in ADWD IMO. Personally, I think that Tyrion really needs Dany (Dany needs him too, to act like a hand like you suggested) to give him a higher purpose.

ADWD Tyrion craved nothing but revenge (I can see why he wants to go after Cersei and Jaime, but his idea to put Myrcella on the throne, that was just... bad), I think that the mystery of the Dragons and a leader who genuinely cares for her people (something Tyrion has never experienced => Tywin did it for his house, Bob didn't really take an interest in the people, Joffrey was a sadistic cunt and Cersei does everything for herself) would give Tyrion a good reason to use his wits, just like when he was defending Kingslanding (although that was more for House Lannister), only this time for the greater good.

I hope their relationship has the same dynamic as the Jon-Tyrion relationship in aGoT :D

Dany already showed some indications of being a worthy ruler IMO. I'm thinking about her handling the sellswords in the beginning, the sack of Astapor and her speaking justice (she had a very Stannisvibe to her then, which I really liked) and of course the decision to abolish slavery. Personally, I blame Daario Douchebag and Mereen for everything that went wrong so far ;)

[i used to enjoy Dany's storyline, so I hope that when Daario gets killed she becomes awesome again, like she used to be]

Oh, Just one small thing though. I don't think that Egg was a good king, after reading about his kingship I thought he did a rather lousy job :unsure:

[Veltigar]

I agree she needs some time to think things over, and learn a few more lessons before she can return to her people. Also, does anyone else think that the fact that Dany is now back on the Dothraki Sea reflects Quathe's advice? 'To go forward you must go back'. Surely returning to the Dothraki Sea can be considered 'going back'?

:agree: with you on this one. There was also something about passing underneath the shadow to touch the light IIRC, in ADWD Drogons shadow passes over Dany as he flies in, so I think that part has been fulfilled as well. I think that both have something to do with Dany reaching insight (rather then with Dany's actual travel to Westeros), which would fit nicely in the 'time to muse and think' aspect of my prediction :rolleyes:

[Veltigar]

I like to think of the FM as rather powerful, so I am not sure Sam will manage to snatch a book from under Jaqen's nose. But what if they team up and work together, at least at first? (Another note, anyone noticed similarities of Sam Tarly to Sam Gamgee? The lotal (to Jon and the NW), rotund, timid character who likes a quiet life but is thrown into adventure and despite being scared and not so skilled in arms still manages to be the wisest and the most useful? I like Sam.)

That could happen as well. I just thought that Sam snatching the book away would be more compelling, because then we could have a Jaqen hot in pursuit, bumping off people to get to the book (and of course Sam would be scared out of his senses). + another thing to think about, if Jaqen is really a rogue FM (one of the possibilities), could his powers be less great than a official FM?

*Sam is clearly based on Samwell (George said it a couple of times). I think that's one of the reasons why Sam isn't one of my favorite characters, because I don't like hobbits.

[Veltigar]

I would simply love to see the maesters humiliated like Pycelle was by Tyrion. Because it appears to me like they took something good (the order of the maesters) and corrupted it with their own plans for power, and I would like to see it restored.

I must say that I pitied Pycelle a bit. Yes, he served House Lannister and not the realm but his reaction to Tywins burrial was just heartbreaking. He really thought that Tywin was the only one who could save the realm and make it prosper.

I also believe that the order of Maesters could never be restored (just like the Catholic Church) because the instituion is made up out of all this different people. Some of them are like Maester Luwin others like Maester Theomore (the maester of White Harbor). I do however agree that some sort of purification is needed, but I think that that should focuss more on the Archmaesters and their dealings.

I'm not sure what Euron's game is, if I supported the ironborn it would only be just to see his plans progress and see what he's up to. Ever since I started reading I though the ironborn as losers, Balon was definately one, Theon before Reek was insufferable, Victarion seeks to marry a woman who is already married, and we know Dany will not take a liking to a man like him. Only Euron appears to know what he's doing and have some sort of plan. I am quite curious.

You and me both. I agree with your assesment of them bein losers, although I must say that I really love big Vic, he's one of George's best characters IMO :D

As for Arya, I think the fact that Arya and fArya are going to end up in the same place was made for a reason, Arya will see Jeyne and know she's faking to be her, and that will leas to some decision or other. It may be that Syrio will appear there somewhere (fingers crossed) but you can't be saying that Arya and fArya will just be in the same city and never meet?

They are sending Farya to the wall and not to Braavos. If they discover she's an imposter she will be of no use, if they keep on thinking that she is the real deal then the Northern Lords would never allow her to leave.

That's all I can think of for now, I may come back later with more theories haha

I hope so, the more the merrier :D

[ObsidiaNPhoenix]

I might not agree with everything or understand it, but it certainly is well written and argued.

[Veltigar]

I might not agree with everything or understand it, but it certainly is well written and argued.

Thanks. If you point out what you don't understand I would gladly try to explain it to you. Also, if you don't agree with some points please speak up and give your take on it. Discussing the possible sequence of events in tWoW was the goal of this thread from the get go :cheers:

[Arya_Ghostface]

Tyrion did everything for House Lannister, because he craved his fathers approval. He's a decent guy in my book, but I wouldn't say that he would put the Realm above the interests of House Lannister or himself. And he hit rock bottom in ADWD IMO. Personally, I think that Tyrion really needs Dany (Dany needs him too, to act like a hand like you suggested) to give him a higher purpose.

ADWD Tyrion craved nothing but revenge (I can see why he wants to go after Cersei and Jaime, but his idea to put Myrcella on the throne, that was just... bad), I think that the mystery of the Dragons and a leader who genuinely cares for her people (something Tyrion has never experienced => Tywin did it for his house, Bob didn't really take an interest in the people, Joffrey was a sadistic cunt and Cersei does everything for herself) would give Tyrion a good reason to use his wits, just like when he was defending Kingslanding (although that was more for House Lannister), only this time for the greater good.

I hope their relationship has the same dynamic as the Jon-Tyrion relationship in aGoT :D

Dany already showed some indications of being a worthy ruler IMO. I'm thinking about her handling the sellswords in the beginning, the sack of Astapor and her speaking justice (she had a very Stannisvibe to her then, which I really liked) and of course the decision to abolish slavery. Personally, I blame Daario Douchebag and Mereen for everything that went wrong so far ;)

[i used to enjoy Dany's storyline, so I hope that when Daario gets killed she becomes awesome again, like she used to be]

Oh, Just one small thing though. I don't think that Egg was a good king, after reading about his kingship I thought he did a rather lousy job :unsure:

That's a point of view I had never thought of, Tyrion as someone needing Dany to help him reset his moral compass, it makes sense in some way.

I wouldn't call it rock bottom, but Tyrion certainly gives in to temptation and excess and then does some soul searching afterwards. I think in aDwD Tyrion decided to let go for awhile, give in to his daddy issues and everything that he was leaving behind in KL.

I mean think what this guy went through in the past few months:

- he is asked by his father to rule while being constantly put down by said father.

- he is hated by all KL even though he is doing his uttermost to help them survive the coming attack by Stannis

- he is severely injured in battle by a member of the Kingsguard who has been paid by Cersei, his own sister, to kill him

- he survives with grave injuries, only to find out that while he was out cold his father was claiming all of his smart decisions as his own and sidelining him with every opportunity. I mean think of the bitterness! I would have daddy issues after that too!

- is married off to Sansa who despises him for being an ugly dwarf, while he feels pity for her and wants to be (mostly) kind to her

- is accused of murder of his own nephew and imprisoned

- finds out that the woman he married and loved and lost in so brutal a manner was not a whore after all, and that she had suffered his father's injustice along with him, and that his brother and only friend in his family was helping maintain the lie

- finds his father, always disapproving of whoring, in bed with Shae, his own whore (and finds out she never loved him)

- kills his father

I mean, I would drink my way out of KL and all the way to Pentos too if I were him! I see it as some kind of post-traumatic stress disorder he's suffering from. But even then, he can still think, scheme, plot, recognise JonCon and fAegon and understand their purpose, he never loses his mind and his tongue is sharp, and he rarely acts in a way that is not advantageous to him (going to a brothel and getting caught by Jorah being the exception).

So the skills are there, the brains are there, all he needs is some kind of stimulation and a purpose. And guiding Dany could be that purpose. Does that mean we agree?

*I will make a confession: I haven't read the tales of Dunk and Egg, Everything I know about Egg is what's on the wiki, and how much loved he is in this forum (and by Aemon of course), so I just wanted to make sure no one would post something like 'yeah Egg was the best ever', because that wasn't my point.

[Arya_Ghostface]

That could happen as well. I just thought that Sam snatching the book away would be more compelling, because then we could have a Jaqen hot in pursuit, bumping off people to get to the book (and of course Sam would be scared out of his senses). + another thing to think about, if Jaqen is really a rogue FM (one of the possibilities), could his powers be less great than a official FM?

*Sam is clearly based on Samwell (George said it a couple of times). I think that's one of the reasons why Sam isn't one of my favorite characters, because I don't like hobbits.

I don't think Jaqen is a rogue FM, because then why would he still be able to give Arya the coin that meant her admittance to tHoBaW?

Yeah it makes sense that Sam should be based on Sam Gamgee, but I actually like him for that, Sam Gamgee has alwas been my favrourite character from LotR! (and what's wring with hobbits? They're adorable! :P )

[Blue Steel]

What evidence is there that Randyl Tarly is the greatest warrior in Westeros? Most evidence in the books point towards Garlan Tyrell being in the strongest tier of fighters with Sandor, Gregor, Barristan and two handed Jaime.

I doubt the Iron Men can win a large scale land battle against the Tyrells.

[Arya_Ghostface]

I must say that I pitied Pycelle a bit. Yes, he served House Lannister and not the realm but his reaction to Tywins burrial was just heartbreaking. He really thought that Tywin was the only one who could save the realm and make it prosper.

I also believe that the order of Maesters could never be restored (just like the Catholic Church) because the instituion is made up out of all this different people. Some of them are like Maester Luwin others like Maester Theomore (the maester of White Harbor). I do however agree that some sort of purification is needed, but I think that that should focuss more on the Archmaesters and their dealings.

Agreed. I think changes are needed so that the Maesters will be more like Luwin and Aemon and less like Theomore, and I really think this will happen. Hopefully the attack will shake them up a bit.

You and me both. I agree with your assesment of them bein losers, although I must say that I really love big Vic, he's one of George's best characters IMO :D

Haha he's an interesting read, I'll give you that! I'm curious to see how the dynamic between him and Moqorro develops.

They are sending Farya to the wall and not to Braavos. If they discover she's an imposter she will be of no use, if they keep on thinking that she is the real deal then the Northern Lords would never allow her to leave.

Oh have I read the Theon WoW chapter wrong (quite possible)? I thought Massey was told to take fArya to Braavos?

[Veltigar]

I wouldn't call it rock bottom, but Tyrion certainly gives in to temptation and excess and then does some soul searching afterwards. I think in aDwD Tyrion decided to let go for awhile, give in to his daddy issues and everything that he was leaving behind in KL.

I agree with you (mostley), but for me Tyrion hit rock bottom in the brothel where Jorah found him. At the beginning of ADWD, he was still his old self (he still had his skills), only a bit more annoying and filled with selfpity (understandable of course after all he had been through). When I read his first POVs I had the impression that he was still pretty much the same decent guy we saw in ASOS, and I chose to ignore his more darker moments (like when he thought about putting Myrcella on the throne), but then he got to the brothel. The way he treated the slave girl there... that was Tyrion reaching rock bottom IMO.

So the skills are there, the brains are there, all he needs is some kind of stimulation and a purpose. And guiding Dany could be that purpose. Does that mean we agree?.

I think so :)

*I will make a confession: I haven't read the tales of Dunk and Egg, Everything I know about Egg is what's on the wiki, and how much loved he is in this forum (and by Aemon of course), so I just wanted to make sure no one would post something like 'yeah Egg was the best ever', because that wasn't my point.

I like Egg too, he was a very decent guy. But like this series has shown, good men don't always make good kings. I had the impression that he never really took Aemons advice to heart, Egg never killed the boy.