My Personal Predictions for the first part of the WoW

[Veltigar]

I don't think Jaqen is a rogue FM, because then why would he still be able to give Arya the coin that meant her admittance to tHoBaW?

I forgot about that, that indeed is a very strong argument against the "Jaqen-gone-rogue-theory".

Yeah it makes sense that Sam should be based on Sam Gamgee, but I actually like him for that, Sam Gamgee has alwas been my favrourite character from LotR! (and what's wring with hobbits? They're adorable! :P )

Well, I'm not a big LOTR fan for starters (there very boring books IMO). I think that Tolkiens work on the first and second era (the Silmarillion) was way better, especially "the Children of Hurin". And perhaps the fact that they were so adorable was what made me hate them in the first place, they are just so utterly useless for anything else. But hey "De gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum" You're just as free to love the hobbits as I'm to hate them :P

[Veltigar]

What evidence is there that Randyl Tarly is the greatest warrior in Westeros? Most evidence in the books point towards Garlan Tyrell being in the strongest tier of fighters with Sandor, Gregor, Barristan and two handed Jaime.

I doubt the Iron Men can win a large scale land battle against the Tyrells.

Randyll Tarly is the greatest warrior in Westeros, read the books and you'll see people saying that time and time again. Anyway, I think the context made it quite clear that you have to interpret warrior as commander and not just as fighter.

If you read my theory you'll see that the Ironborn in my scenario won't fight a large scale battle against the Tyrells. The scenario relies on tricks and ruses. They trick the Tyrells in leaving Highgarden to fight them somewhere across the river, they then attack Highgarden itself and thus force the Tyrells to cross the river again. And then the Ironborn attack them with their ships while they are crossing the river.

[Veltigar]

Oh have I read the Theon WoW chapter wrong (quite possible)? I thought Massey was told to take fArya to Braavos?

This comes from the sample chapter:

Ser Justin put one hand on his sword hilt. "On my honor as a knight, you have my word."

"Oh, and take the Stark girl with you. Deliver her to Lord Commander Snow on your way to Eastwatch." Stannis tapped the parchment that lay before him. "A true king pays his debts."

Pay it, aye, thought Theon. Pay it with false coin. Jon Snow would see through the impostesure at once. Lord Stark's sullen bastard had known Jeyne Poole, and he had always been fond of his little half-sister Arya.

[Arya_Ghostface]

This comes from the sample chapter:

Ser Justin put one hand on his sword hilt. "On my honor as a knight, you have my word."

"Oh, and take the Stark girl with you. Deliver her to Lord Commander Snow on your way to Eastwatch." Stannis tapped the parchment that lay before him. "A true king pays his debts."

Pay it, aye, thought Theon. Pay it with false coin. Jon Snow would see through the impostesure at once. Lord Stark's sullen bastard had known Jeyne Poole, and he had always been fond of his little half-sister Arya.

I stand corrected. :blushing:

Then fArya can't be what makes Arya abandon the FM training. It must be something else, I have to think it over. Somehow, as soon as I read the chapter I thought real Arya would be meeting Massey in Braavos, and maybe I thought fArya would be with him (I have only read the books once).

Not sure I like the guy, I find him a little too cocky and opportunistic for my liking, though I don't think he's a complete jerk like that Dareon person, but I couldn't help thinking that since he's on his way to Braavos, and Arya knows Braavos better than most of its residents, she will chance-meet him at some point. But then again, what if Arya's training requires that she move away from Braavos for a while, and so these two completely miss each other? And, of course, what if Massey never makes it to Eastwatch in the first place? Who knows what conditions he will find at the Wall, and which Lord Commander will greet him, if anyone?

On the subject of Randyl Tarly, not sure what the otehrs think of him, he has proven to be very skilled in battle, he has won quite a few within the span of the books and Mace Tyrell seems to hold him in high regard. If anything, he has proven himself effective, even though he's not my favourite character.

[Veltigar]

Then fArya can't be what makes Arya abandon the FM training. It must be something else, I have to think it over. Somehow, as soon as I read the chapter I thought real Arya would be meeting Massey in Braavos, and maybe I thought fArya would be with him (I have only read the books once).

Not sure I like the guy, I find him a little too cocky and opportunistic for my liking, though I don't think he's a complete jerk like that Dareon person, but I couldn't help thinking that since he's on his way to Braavos, and Arya knows Braavos better than most of its residents, she will chance-meet him at some point. But then again, what if Arya's training requires that she move away from Braavos for a while, and so these two completely miss each other? And, of course, what if Massey never makes it to Eastwatch in the first place? Who knows what conditions he will find at the Wall, and which Lord Commander will greet him, if anyone?

Is my Syrio-returns-and-dies-scenario starting to grow on you? :P

You have to admit that it makes at least some sense and it would rap up Syrio's storyline rather neatly B)

[the sword in the night]

What evidence is there that Randyl Tarly is the greatest warrior in Westeros? Most evidence in the books point towards Garlan Tyrell being in the strongest tier of fighters with Sandor, Gregor, Barristan and two handed Jaime.

Don't forget Bronze Yohn, Blackfish, GreatJon, Lyn Corbray, Victarion, Hotah, Timmett, Mance Rayder, Brienne, Dagmer, Andrick the Unsmiling, Nute the Barber, (Jorah, Benjen?) and recently dead: Oberyn, Robert, Ned, Quorin Halfhand, SmallJon, to name a few. All could easily take him out, one on one.

Randyl was known for being a stern and effective leader of men. And we haven't seen the last of Syrio ;)

[Veltigar]

Don't forget Bronze Yohn, Blackfish, GreatJon, Lyn Corbray, Victarion, Hotah, Timmett, Mance Rayder, Brienne, Dagmer, Andrick the Unsmiling, Nute the Barber, (Jorah, Benjen?) and recently dead: Oberyn, Robert, Ned, Quorin Halfhand, SmallJon, to name a few. All could easily take him out, one on one.

Ned was not that good. He was a great commander, but not an outstanding fighter, just like Robb was.

And I think Randyll as a swordfighter deserves more credit than what you give him. Anyways, like I said in a previous reply, when I talk about Randyll as the best warrior, then I'm obviously talking about his commanding skills, not his swordsmanship.

[Arya_Ghostface]

Is my Syrio-returns-and-dies-scenario starting to grow on you? :P

You have to admit that it makes at least some sense and it would rap up Syrio's storyline rather neatly B)

Hahaha returns and dies yes, returns and commits suicide at tHoBaW no :P

Actually, I would rather he didn't die. I could marry him. :P Or he could somehow return to Arya, realise she's about to become a FM and convince her to quit, then follow her back to Westeros. I don't know why so many people like to think of Syrio as a FM, because to me he looks more like a very successful bravo than a secret cultist killer.

[Arya_Ghostface]

Oh and another thought. What if Syrio has returned to the Sealord of Braavos where he was before, and then Arya finds herself meeting the Sealord and notices Syrio there, or she mentions his name and gets out of a tight spot?

[Veltigar]

Oh and another thought. What if Syrio has returned to the Sealord of Braavos where he was before, and then Arya finds herself meeting the Sealord and notices Syrio there, or she mentions his name and gets out of a tight spot?

I don't know, I liked the character as well (although IMO HBO Syrio is an improvement to George's original creation, badass actor), but I think that Syrio and Arya reuniting and just being awesome together wouldn't really work out in the end. That would feel so contrived and cliché (at least to me). I usually don't use that argument, since I'm not one of those people who think that GRRM reinvited the wheel, I mean even George needs this stereotypes (the difference of course is that his writing his way better) to create his great story. But I don't see this particular cliché working out, I mean I would really like to see Arya meeting up with Gendry and Hot Pie again (I also admit that I'm a Gendry+Arya supporter) I think that cliché could really work out, but bringing Syrio back - without giving him the awesome/tragic/emotionally devastating end he deserves - would really do injustice to this great character.

[Note: I would like to say that George is easily the best writer I've ever read (fantasy and other genres), no other writer has ever gripped me like he did]

Hahaha returns and dies yes, returns and commits suicide at tHoBaW no

Actually, I would rather he didn't die. I could marry him. Or he could somehow return to Arya, realise she's about to become a FM and convince her to quit, then follow her back to Westeros. I don't know why so many people like to think of Syrio as a FM, because to me he looks more like a very successful bravo than a secret cultist killer.

Just out of curiosity Book Syrio or HBO Syrio? :P

The reason why so many people think that he's a FM (even though George himself has said that that was not true IIRC) can be any of the following: Booze/drugs/wishful thinking. ;)

[Arya_Ghostface]

I don't know, I liked the character as well (although IMO HBO Syrio is an improvement to George's original creation, badass actor), but I think that Syrio and Arya reuniting and just being awesome together wouldn't really work out in the end. That would feel so contrived and cliché (at least to me). I usually don't use that argument, since I'm not one of those people who think that GRRM reinvited the wheel, I mean even George needs this stereotypes (the difference of course is that his writing his way better) to create his great story. But I don't see this particular cliché working out, I mean I would really like to see Arya meeting up with Gendry and Hot Pie again (I also admit that I'm a Gendry+Arya supporter) I think that cliché could really work out, but bringing Syrio back - without giving him the awesome/tragic/emotionally devastating end he deserves - would really do injustice to this great character.

I don't see Arya ever marrying (or in love) to be honest. She never was that kind of person, and it would feel a little contrived if she fell for Gendry, or indeed if Gendry fell for her. And yes I agree that Arya can't meet again all the people she travelled with previously, like Syrio, or the BwB, or Gendry and Hot Pie or Jaqen, it would be too fairy-tale-ish. It's probably just wishful thinking on my part.

I like the character of Syrio as written by GRRM, I just think that Miltos Yerolemou did an amazing job fleshing out th character and also became instantly likeable, making Arya even more likeable to me. But the actor is too old (but not too Greek :P) for me!

I found this podcast if you're interested in an interview of Yerolemou, don't know what's in it, I am currently listening to it.

http://www.geekingout.org/got/got_syrio.mp3

[Veltigar]

I don't see Arya ever marrying (or in love) to be honest. She never was that kind of person, and it would feel a little contrived if she fell for Gendry, or indeed if Gendry fell for her. And yes I agree that Arya can't meet again all the people she travelled with previously, like Syrio, or the BwB, or Gendry and Hot Pie or Jaqen, it would be too fairy-tale-ish. It's probably just wishful thinking on my part.

I like the character of Syrio as written by GRRM, I just think that Miltos Yerolemou did an amazing job fleshing out th character and also became instantly likeable, making Arya even more likeable to me. But the actor is too old (but not too Greek :P) for me!

Oh, I hope you haven't fallen to GRRM cynicism. I'm probably one of the only ones left who believe that some of the more fairy-tale-ish ending will happen. After all GRRM said that it would be bittersweet ending (bitter = high body count, sweet = the survivors will have some sort of happiness).

I found this podcast if you're interested in an interview of Yerolemou, don't know what's in it, I am currently listening to it.

http://www.geekingou...t/got_syrio.mp3

I'm listening to it right now, I must say that this is the first podcast I've ever listened to.

I would like to return the favour:

This interview with Miltos is excellent (especially 14.40 - end) :D

[Little Red Riding Hood]

I can easily imagine Miltos Yeromelou lying on a cold marble slab talking to Arya. His final words could then be something along the lines off “What do we say to the God of Death?” and then Arya answering “today”. That would be utterly devastating to the audience]

:lol: Veltigar, you are the best! Another crackpot theory:

Arya is hired to kill the dragons....or to use the key stolen by Pate , since being a dancer of the water, small and agile, as she did in the Red Keep, is easier for her than for others to reach the book of dragons.

[Arya_Ghostface]

Oh, I hope you haven't fallen to GRRM cynicism. I'm probably one of the only ones left who believe that some of the more fairy-tale-ish ending will happen. After all GRRM said that it would be bittersweet ending (bitter = high body count, sweet = the survivors will have some sort of happiness).

Haha that's not what I meant exactly, I was thinking more that Arya is not the kind of person whose happy ending would be to be paired up with someone and live happily ever after, she said so much herself to her father, and he told her she should be a lady and marry a great lord and have children and she said that's not for me, or something along those lines. Granted, that's exactly what I used to say at 10, that I will never want to get married, but this is a fictional universe, and it would be odd if Arya suddenly decided she likes marriage and kids more than being a kickass warrior.

[Veltigar]

Haha that's not what I meant exactly, I was thinking more that Arya is not the kind of person whose happy ending would be to be paired up with someone and live happily ever after, she said so much herself to her father, and he told her she should be a lady and marry a great lord and have children and she said that's not for me, or something along those lines. Granted, that's exactly what I used to say at 10, that I will never want to get married, but this is a fictional universe, and it would be odd if Arya suddenly decided she likes marriage and kids more than being a kickass warrior.

They don't need to marry in a traditional way. Arya and Gendry could take to the road together. Although I would like them ending up in some castle, ruling as equals just because Hot Pie could be their cook then. And we need more HOT PIE :hat: :commie: :D

[Veltigar]

:lol: Veltigar, you are the best! Another crackpot theory: Arya is hired to kill the dragons....or to use the key stolen by Pate , since being a dancing water, small and agile, as she did in the Red Keep, it is easier to get to the book of dragons.

What did you think of possibility B and C than? A might be the most far fetched but the others are more in tune with what people seem to expect of Syrio. ;)

[Arya_Ghostface]

Apparently Hot Pie will make another appearance as part of BwB, I hope he has a happy ending, I was a bit shocked at the death of Lommy Greenhands and wish the rest of that lot to survive.

I can't see Gendry becoming a legitimised (or otherwise) noble. Actually, so far in the books I have been left with the impression that Robert's bastards are only named and shown simply to prove the point (they are all dark haired, the seed is strong and so on), and that no great future is in store for them, though I really like pretty much all of them, Gendry and Mya Stone and Edric. In fact, Edric may be able to live the life of a lord, as he's protected by Stannis, but otherwise I can't see Bob's bastards playing an important role in the future of Westeros.

[Veltigar]

Apparently Hot Pie will make another appearance as part of BwB, I hope he has a happy ending, I was a bit shocked at the death of Lommy Greenhands and wish the rest of that lot to survive.

I can't see Gendry becoming a legitimised (or otherwise) noble. Actually, so far in the books I have been left with the impression that Robert's bastards are only named and shown simply to prove the point (they are all dark haired, the seed is strong and so on), and that no great future is in store for them, though I really like pretty much all of them, Gendry and Mya Stone and Edric. In fact, Edric may be able to live the life of a lord, as he's protected by Stannis, but otherwise I can't see Bob's bastards playing an important role in the future of Westeros.

I wouldn't be so sure about that... Gendry will probably evolve into a great warrior and nobility is always won with sword in hand (+ If LB turns out to be an actual sword that doesn't exist already, who better to forge it then Gendry). + a lot of noble Houses will be extinct at the end of aDoS, so there are lots and lots of spoils to be gained at the end of the books.

I think Mya's roll will be smaller but also significant. I think she'll probably help Sansa in bringing LF down in some way (Sansa is set up to be the brains of that operations, but every player needs pawns and other pieces).

Edric: I don't think he'll be important, not for the story anyways, he might be rewarded with lands or wed to Shireen for all I know because he was the prove of the incest that lead to Jof, Tommen and MyrcellA? But that's all.

[Arya_Ghostface]

I just realise how much I like all three, they are very likeable characters, and make the best of their unfortunate birth (well, Edric is different because his mom was a noble as well). But both Mya and Gendry developped skills that make them very useful to others, and likeable personalities as well. And apparently Bob must have been handsome, because both Gendry and Mya are described as good-looking.

I am looking forward to seeing Sansa come into her own in the next books. When I first started reading her I thought she was so silly I wondered why we were getting PoV chapters, and then of course she witnessed a series of events as a pawn and a bystander, and then she started thinking for herself with LF's 'help'. Could Sansa get the greatest transformation of all characters?

Do you think she will lead the Vale to war? I remember someone saying Daenerys could make landfall in the Vale (was that you, Veltigar?). That would drag the Vale into the Game of Thrones, though they have so far managed to avoid getting involved.

[Veltigar]

I am looking forward to seeing Sansa come into her own in the next books. When I first started reading her I thought she was so silly I wondered why we were getting PoV chapters, and then of course she witnessed a series of events as a pawn and a bystander, and then she started thinking for herself with LF's 'help'. Could Sansa get the greatest transformation of all characters?

I don't think anyone liked her in aGoT, but now she's a favorite off many. I think she'll get the greatest transformation of all the characters (you should check out http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79240-from-pawn-to-player-rethinking-sansa-xvii/ and its predecessors).

Do you think she will lead the Vale to war? I remember someone saying Daenerys could make landfall in the Vale (was that you, Veltigar?). That would drag the Vale into the Game of Thrones, though they have so far managed to avoid getting involved.

Yes, I suggested that (and many before me of course) just because it makes the most sense (certainly because GRRM has told us that Dany isn't going to Asshai to land on the other side of Westeros). All the other places she could land on are under control of her enemies and whoever gets the Vale will be a lot closer to winning the IT.

I don't know if Sansa is going to lead the Vale into war. I mean technicly she has no right to do that and I don't think - as I stated before- that she'll end up with the dashing hero HtH, who as a knight from a fairytale will do anything for her. I think HtH will probably be one of the smuggest assholes will meet in this series.

If I had to put a scenario forward than I would say:

1) At the gates of the moon: we'll see Sansa becoming great friends with Mya and Randa, she'll probably be noted by all present (men, women, servants, knights, etc.) for being smart, kind, gracefull and beautifull.

2) HtH comes to play: He'll fall in love with Sansa (Bob Baratheon style) but he won't be able to hide that he's a massive douche and Sansa will have second thoughts about LF plot

3)HtH gets madder and madder and LF is angry because he can't close the deal. he might treaten Sweetrobins life

4)Sansa starts using her friends to gain subtle influence

5) HtH being madly in love with Sansa turns to LF and asks his help to marry his "daughter"

6) third party arrival: this might be BF or as I suspect Brienne (she knows the mad mouse who is present their and who might make her aware of the existence off Alayne Stone)

7) Sansa sees the treat this poses not just for herself but especially for Sweetrobin

8) she runs off with Brienne, her friends and Sweetrobin to hide behind the walls of Bronze Yan Roys or Nestor Roys

9) HtH and LF together call their allys and try and take Sansa and SweetRobin

10) arrival of Dany and the Dragons. They take gulltown and Dany flies in, while her armies encircle the troops of HtH. The fighting stops. Dany meets with Sansa, Brienne and Sweetrobin (she might take Sweetrobin with her for a ride). Sansa reveals her true identity => akward situation with Tyrion (the marriage will be annuled of course seeing that Tyrion already had a wife when he married Sansa)

11) If LF doesn't escape he gets executed (HtH dies for sure I think) after Sansa testifies. Sansa will then be appointed as Sweetrobins guardian since she's his niece and saved his ass and thus gain control over the Vale Armies.

12) She'll suport Dany (Rickon might have turned up by then and Sansa might think that Stannis holds him as a hostage adding another reason to back Dany up) and give her the armies of the Vale. They might even become friends.