My Personal Predictions for the first part of the WoW

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Seems legit. Could very well be some kind of foreshading.

Instead of Wun-Wund came the Umbers in my mind, remember their sigil? It's a Giant. So it could be the Umbers tearing the gate down but Wun-Wun makes also sense. Think it could be both.

YES!! I was thinking the same thing, either a literal giant or a sigil giant. I'm glad someone agrees :cheers:

[Veltigar]

Dany has to have a part in destroying the walkers. If she doesn't the series isn't even named right. But think about it. Unless the Horn of Joramun is blown, the Others have no chance of passing the Wall. I think it's the one Sam has. So let's say the Wall falls. What next? Well, Others fight a nice little battle with Jon and the remenants not crushed by the collaspe of the Wall. There are a few possibilities. Jon already meets up with Dany, and they both fight a battle in Winterfell. Second, Jon is fighting the battle, Dany comes in bamf style and burns everything with Drogon only, I think Aegon will kill one dragon and the other dragon is saved for Jon, or saves him mid battle. Third, Jon gets the everliving crap beaten out of him and retreats to the riverlands, which I do agree with you is unlikely due to the fact about the North under Others control, and Dany melts em at the Trident. However, I think all scenarios are likely. First one because it shows the true threat and how they would almost lose because of the Game of Thrones. Second because it's frigging awesome and it would show the hopelessness in battle to be saved. Third because of Dany's dream. Again, I think Stannis being the Night King would make this all possible in a way Euron or the Boltons can't do. Euron I think will either be roasted by Dany or nailed by Alleras. Ramsay is saved for Theon, I'm calling it, best thing ever. Roose is the best option of the bunch, but do you really see it happening? I mean, Stannis and the victorious northmen won't let him simply go away, it would be hard to get out of Winterfell, everyone in the north hates him and again, there's the Wall.

of course she will be a part of it, but she won't ride in on a dragon burning shit and win the war for the dawn in one battle and than return home in time for diner.

The horn of Joramun is indeed the one Sam has... And Oldtown is under threat by the Ironbornk see why Euron could be a viable candidate for the NK?

+ the wall doesn't necessarily has to fall, the others could find passage through Gorns way and wreck the lands from their.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting them to let Roose or Ramsay walk aff with their love. They could escape you know...

Stannis is in a spiral of being horrible. First adultery, indirectly killing his brother, still a hard thing even if he hated him, almost killing Edric, burning what he thought was Mance, and being hollowed out. He was even prepared to kill a baby. I think he could sacrifice Shireen for something, and that's what breaks him. Dany's bittersweet ending is she dies, or she loses a dragon or she doesn't get on the throne.

HAd to answer this one seperatly. The adultery isn't really that bad in Westeros, you could say that it's actually normal. If Stannis had another option beside killing Renly than he would have taken it, Renly was just as ready to kill Stannis you know. He didn't almost kill Edric, if he really wanted to than Edric would have been bbqed. "Mance" was a threat so he had to be dealt with, and Stannis burned her because of Melissandre, otherwise he would have just chopped his head off. He wasn't prepared to burn a baby, Melissandre was the threat, she was the reason why Jon decided to send Gilly and the boy off. He wouldn't sacrifize Shireen, again if she dies it will probably be Melissandre or well Val didn't seem to like her with the greyscale and all.

[Veltigar]

A pretty good overall suggestion I might say. I could totally see a horn blowing and Dany arriving in a LOTR style (Rohan's arrival to the Battle of Pelennor Fields with 6,000 riders) with dozens and thousands of dothraki united to follow the Stallion eh, that would be awesome.

As for your Ironborn theory I must disagree. The Ironborn's strength lies primarily on sea and you're suggesting that they'll defeat the powerful Reach's armies in mainland. Seems to me that this is very unlikely.

I think Dany has been set up to stay away for a while. She needs time to think and to make a complete 180° to become awesome and decisive again. I also think that it would benefit the story more if the secondary Mereen POVs (Tyrion, Victarion and Barry) and other characters (Daario, Jorah, the Harpy) get to interact before Dany arrives. They'll need the time to make allies, hunt for enemies and establish a powerbase amongst Dany's followers so that when Dany does return they are able to influence/determine her decisions, in order to further their own goals (Barry= Pardon me for jailing the King, now get to Westeros; Tyrion= Make me your master of whispers/Hand of the Queen, head to Westeros and together we'll take what is ours; Vic= marry me and give me your dragons to restore the old ways and kill Euron; Jorah= Forgive me and let me be with you; Daario= Kill your King and consider me for the position even though I probably work together with Green Grace/Harpy to destroy you).

[Veltigar]

I'll take the two following post together since they focus on the same thing.

As for your Ironborn theory I must disagree. The Ironborn's strength lies primarily on sea and you're suggesting that they'll defeat the powerful Reach's armies in mainland. Seems to me that this is very unlikely.

Dear Ser Veltigar,

I have read your post to point 7 and liked it thus far. Have to do a little break.

There are some things that concern me. I'll start with the point of the Ironborn vs the Tyrells. I am sorry if some if this content has already been discussed but I had no time to read through the whole thread.

You expect that one part of the Tyrell host is still at Brightwater Keep and the other part in/around Highgarden. Surely the have to meet to face the Ironborn and I like your thought that the Florents will rebel against the Tyrells and support the Ironborn. I think that Garlan and Willas will not be so stupid to cross the river downstream from Highgarden because they know about the strenght of their enemy on the water. Most surely I would rally all troops at Highgarden and stirke south-west to the coast where the Ironborn presume to be. Second I can't see the Ironborn have a chance in facing a Tyrell host in open battle. Their power on the sea is uncontested but when they set foot on land they mostly raid and act in small groups so I do not think that they can stand a well organised Tyrell host in terms of tactics and numbers, even with support of the Florents. Moreover I think the Tyrells will be one of the major enemies in the late part of the story against (F)Aegon and/or Dany.

If the Tyrells will get smashed this early on there will only be the Lannisters, the remnants of the Tyrells at KL, the Gold Cloaks, maybe some Riverlords and possibly (but I do not think to) the Vale against Dany which would not be an enemy who needs Dragons to be defeted.

I think that these two posts show how different people can view this series. I started my OP with the Ironborn victory because I thought that it was my most logical and yet fairly original prediction. The Ironborn victory would work as a catalyst for so many of the other storylines (as I have already shown in the OP).

First some general thoughts/clues why I think that the Ironborn are going to destroy the Tyrells:

1) The reaction "the Ironborn can't destroy the Reachmen, those people are a joke and the Reachmen look so handsome in their armour" seems to be the most popular with users here. It's also the opinion of the Tyrells and their bannermen: the Ironborn are troublesome but nothing more. So, they will surely underestimate the Ironborn on the field of battle.

2) The Tyrells don't have much time, they need to finish the Ironborn off quickley. If they allow them to stay there, the cost for the Reach would be enormous. The Ironborn have blocked the traderoutes by seas, so commerce has dwindeld. With their raids the Ironborn are destroying crops, burning profitable towns and killing peasants (who are needed to do the hard work), the Reach is losing gold quicker than they can replace it.

The Tyrells are also currently busy fighting for the IT. They need men to root Stannis out, make the Lannisters know their place and to destroy Faegon. Right now, Garlan and Willas are sitting on the largest army in Westeros and as long as they haven't dealt with the Ironborn, they can't take their soldiers to the other places where they are needed. They can't afford to take their time, they need to be proactive and force the Ironborn to engage and than soundly defeat them. This urge for speed is a weakness, because Euron could use this to his advantage.

3) Maergary's line about the Tyrells pleasureboat ride to cross the river (that it would end in a massacre) back in AFFC. After tWoW they'll put this in the list of 'moments of forshadowing'.

4) Mels vision of the sea and the towers. It definitley isn't Eastwatch by the sea... but which other location makes sense? Well, only the Reach and Oldtown in particular (with the Hightower) and the sea is heavily associated with the Ironborn (as Martin already used it for the Sack Of WF).

5) The Iron Islanders are lead by Euron "Gamechanger" Crowseye. If Balon or Victarion had been their King than they wouldn't stand a chance. But Euron is an entirely different animal... He has great mind for strategy, the only Ironborn victory during their First Rebellion was won by him, since he came up with the plan. We can't appreciate it nowadays, since they speak so little of it, but the burning of the Lannisterfleet is the Westerosi equivalent of Pearl Harbour (actually even bigger since the Lannisters haven't got a fleet of note ever since that day). Also murdering his brother, and sailing in when he does are also strokes of genius and they show that Euron isn't affraid off taking risks (he's also the one who sailed farther than any living man up to day).

Euron also understands the hidden strength of the Ironborn. And I'm not talking about their navy. The Ironborn are probably the strongest warriors in the whole world. Their whole culture is based on war and bloodshed, but they have a huge flaw which always prevented them from rising from the ashes again and that's the whole "every-captain-is-a-king-on-his-own-ship' bullshit. Now, Idiots like Balon applauded that mentality, because it represents the Old Way. Euron doesn't care about the Old Way (murdering his brother, mocking the Drowned God, etc.) and he's busy binding the Ironborn to him.

He does this in a couple of ways. First off all, we have to understand that Euron is a legend among the Ironborn. The Reaver who didn't bow, who went farther than any other living man, who crossed the smoking sea, who gathered a vast fortune with his sword in hand, the guy who fucked the Lannisters over and so on.

Secondly: Euron has shown that he's not to be triffled with. He went to sit on the Seastone chair and a nobleman spoke up against it? Euron drowned the fucker. By now the Ironborn will have learned to fear their leader and If Euron orders them to hold their grounds, they won't break ranks or get sidetracked by other things. They fear him a lot more than they fear the Tyrells.

Thirdly: Euron gets shit done, he did what Balon never could. Euron gave them victory, but not just a victory, a meaningfull victory worthy of songs. And he shared the spoils of war with his men. He's binding the best Reavers and commanders to him by rewarding them with noble titles, wealth, land, women and all the other bounties the Reach has to offer.

By now the Ironborn know that following Euron brings great victories and plunder and disobeying Euron will bring them death. The Ironborn are united, and thus their threat has been multiplied hundredfold.

[I BLAME MANCE]

Dany has to have a part in destroying the walkers. If she doesn't the series isn't even named right. But think about it. Unless the Horn of Joramun is blown, the Others have no chance of passing the Wall. I think it's the one Sam has. So let's say the Wall falls. What next? Well, Others fight a nice little battle with Jon and the remenants not crushed by the collaspe of the Wall. There are a few possibilities. Jon already meets up with Dany, and they both fight a battle in Winterfell. Second, Jon is fighting the battle, Dany comes in bamf style and burns everything with Drogon only, I think Aegon will kill one dragon and the other dragon is saved for Jon, or saves him mid battle. Third, Jon gets the everliving crap beaten out of him and retreats to the riverlands, which I do agree with you is unlikely due to the fact about the North under Others control, and Dany melts em at the Trident. However, I think all scenarios are likely. First one because it shows the true threat and how they would almost lose because of the Game of Thrones. Second because it's frigging awesome and it would show the hopelessness in battle to be saved. Third because of Dany's dream. Again, I think Stannis being the Night King would make this all possible in a way Euron or the Boltons can't do. Euron I think will either be roasted by Dany or nailed by Alleras. Ramsay is saved for Theon, I'm calling it, best thing ever. Roose is the best option of the bunch, but do you really see it happening? I mean, Stannis and the victorious northmen won't let him simply go away, it would be hard to get out of Winterfell, everyone in the north hates him and again, there's the Wall. Stannis is in a spiral of being horrible. First adultery, indirectly killing his brother, still a hard thing even if he hated him, almost killing Edric, burning what he thought was Mance, and being hollowed out. He was even prepared to kill a baby. I think he could sacrifice Shireen for something, and that's what breaks him. Dany's bittersweet ending is she dies, or she loses a dragon or she doesn't get on the throne.

Well its called "Ice and FIre" not "Ice vs Fire" So Dany and the Other may not even be enemies they may share something in common. I always found it strange that wildlings and dragonkings burned there dead. We are also uncertain of factions between the others and the fact that Benjen is missing while his two party members dead seems another mystery to consider. Do they value a hostage because he is a Stark? They have yet to assault the wall itself, they are clearly trying to send a message South.

Dany's ending is most likely she marries Aegon to once and for all end the Blackfyre and Targaryen disputem both being the last of their names discluding possible bastards and assuming Aegon is a Blackfyre, which he has to be or else they would never have sold Dany to a Khal she would have been reserved for him. It seems like the dark political closure the Targaryens need.

It' would be very cool if Jon does Melisandre and create some shadow assassins, eventually he will begin to look like Ned. A ghost meeting a ghost if he ever saw Lady Stoneheart it would be a memorable interaction.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

of course she will be a part of it, but she won't ride in on a dragon burning shit and win the war for the dawn in one battle and than return home in time for diner.

The horn of Joramun is indeed the one Sam has... And Oldtown is under threat by the Ironbornk see why Euron could be a viable candidate for the NK?

+ the wall doesn't necessarily has to fall, the others could find passage through Gorns way and wreck the lands from their.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting them to let Roose or Ramsay walk aff with their love. They could escape you know...

HAd to answer this one seperatly. The adultery isn't really that bad in Westeros, you could say that it's actually normal. If Stannis had another option beside killing Renly than he would have taken it, Renly was just as ready to kill Stannis you know. He didn't almost kill Edric, if he really wanted to than Edric would have been bbqed. "Mance" was a threat so he had to be dealt with, and Stannis burned her because of Melissandre, otherwise he would have just chopped his head off. He wasn't prepared to burn a baby, Melissandre was the threat, she was the reason why Jon decided to send Gilly and the boy off. He wouldn't sacrifize Shireen, again if she dies it will probably be Melissandre or well Val didn't seem to like her with the greyscale and all.

Adultery is still adultery, not that bad, but just the tip of the iceberg. I acknowledge the fact that Renly would've killed Stannis anyways,but would it still be an easy thing to do to kill your brother? There were also more options, he just chose not to take them. Edric would've been toast anyways if not for davos. If stannis had done nothing, he would've killed edric when the redwynes came to kill him. Mance was a threat, but the burning shows that he is willing to do that kind of things. Again, I will explain the reasons for him as the night king. First of all, location. Something Euron doesn't have. Secondly, Theon and Ransay need some closure, or if not them, jon and ramsay. He dies either way. Roose is somewhat likely, but we haven't seen any connections between him and the nights king. How would he get past the Wall anyways? Euron is not a good choice either because he needs to do something about the Tyrells and because him and Vic need to meet up again. There's the similarities between Stannis and the original nights king. First, they are both high lords. Second, they both gave their seed to the nights queen and with that, giving her their souls. Then there's the white skin and pale blue eyes. Lastly, the story is told to bran, who is like stannis in which they are both second sons with a dead father mother and brother.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

of course she will be a part of it, but she won't ride in on a dragon burning shit and win the war for the dawn in one battle and than return home in time for diner.

The horn of Joramun is indeed the one Sam has... And Oldtown is under threat by the Ironbornk see why Euron could be a viable candidate for the NK?

+ the wall doesn't necessarily has to fall, the others could find passage through Gorns way and wreck the lands from their.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting them to let Roose or Ramsay walk aff with their love. They could escape you know...

HAd to answer this one seperatly. The adultery isn't really that bad in Westeros, you could say that it's actually normal. If Stannis had another option beside killing Renly than he would have taken it, Renly was just as ready to kill Stannis you know. He didn't almost kill Edric, if he really wanted to than Edric would have been bbqed. "Mance" was a threat so he had to be dealt with, and Stannis burned her because of Melissandre, otherwise he would have just chopped his head off. He wasn't prepared to burn a baby, Melissandre was the threat, she was the reason why Jon decided to send Gilly and the boy off. He wouldn't sacrifize Shireen, again if she dies it will probably be Melissandre or well Val didn't seem to like her with the greyscale and all.

Also, I never thought Dany would save everything and it's all flowers and sunshine like you seem to think. I think she will come after so many cassualties that the battle would just annihilate both sides almost to the point of extinction. Dany fighting Aegon and losing people and maybe a dragon or two or even dying in the battle for the dawn is er bittersweet ending.

[Winterz]

*SNIP*

Euron is good, but he's not that good.

Sure I think Sacking of Oldtown could be possible, but the Reach being crushed by the Ironborn? Very unlikely.

First, you have only one Ironborn mastermind, Euron and the Reach has Tarly, Tyrells and a buttload of other great and experienced masterminds in combat.

Secondly, the Reach's army numbers that far surprasses the Ironborn, maybe even in quality and the factor that they're fighting on their own land and for their own home.

Thirdly, what you say is that one of the weakest kingdoms in Westeros is going to defeat the strongest (currently) kingdom single-handedly and with minimum casualties, without even the Dragons' help.

So I can't possibly agree with it just because it would look nice on the plot.

[Veltigar]

First, you have only one Ironborn mastermind, Euron and the Reach has Tarly, Tyrells and a buttload of other great and experienced masterminds in combat.

Your a bit generous with the title of "Mastermind" me thinks. The only real "mastermind" of the Reach is Randyll Tarly, and he's Master of Laws back in Kingslanding so he can't intervene. For the rest we don't really now many commanders of the Reach, and their military trackrecord isn't that great if you take Randyll's victories out of their file (the rest basicly sat on their asses during the Rebellion). The only victory that remains then is Blackwater, but apart from providing the fighting men, the Tyrells didn't have a lot to do with actually vanquishing Stannis (that was Tyrion inside the city, Tywin and LF outside the city). The only decent fighter we know of on the side of the Reach is Garlan, and although I think that he's a decent commander, he won't show the strategic brilliance (in battle) of people like Randyll Tarly, Robb Stark and Euron Greyjoy.

[sidenote concerning our beloved Randyll: The guy just screams "Blackfyresupporter" to me every time I read about him. He seems a bit of a crossover between Gormon Peake and Fireball. And seeing that the Tyrells just stole Brightwater Keep from under his nose, he has an additional reason to join Faegon in tWoW]

Secondly, the Reach's army numbers that far surprasses the Ironborn, maybe even in quality and the factor that they're fighting on their own land and for their own home.

Yes, they outnumber the Ironborn and they have more knights, but that's no guarantee for succes. There are numberous battles in history where knights were destroyed by forces of 'inferior' quality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn, ...). Plus most of the Reachmen aren't knights, they are simple peasants drafted in to fight for a Lord they don't really know much about. Ironborn are far superiour to these conscripts and the regular Reach soldiers. On the field of battle they would be outclassed by knights that's true, but they won't fight their main battle against the knights of the Reach on their terms.

Thirdly, what you say is that one of the weakest kingdoms in Westeros is going to defeat the strongest (currently) kingdom single-handedly and with minimum casualties, without even the Dragons' help.

So I can't possibly agree with it just because it would look nice on the plot.

I think I said "relativily few" casualties, and the Reach will come back under Faegon. I'm only saying that for now the Ironborn will defeat the largest Reach army (massacre it actually), but the Reach still has a lot of soldiers in the field and when they unite they will be again a force to be reckoned with, without being the dominant force.

And I didn't say that it would look nice, I said it would further the plot greatly, because it would work as a catalyst for so many other storylines (including: Sam, Faegon&JonCon, Arianne and Dorne in general, Cersei and KL, Dany, ...) + the Tyrells have to be dealt with.

That was something I forgot to mention, but I'll do it now. The Tyrells are to strong, ever since ACOK they have been pulling armies out of their ass without sustaining lots of casualties. Since Martin confirmed that there's going to be a second Dance between Faegon and Dany, the Tyrells and the Lannisters have to suffer a massive defeat in order for Faegons storyline to pick up speed (nobody leaves the winning team), so that he could actually be a threat to Dany when she comes to Westeros. Right now, there is only one force in Westeros capable of dishing out the required blow to trigger all these events and that's the Ironborn.

Euron is good, but he's not that good.

Sure I think Sacking of Oldtown could be possible, but the Reach being crushed by the Ironborn? Very unlikely.

The loss of Oldtown would be devastating (biggest city in Westeros, home of the citadel and the former seat of the HS) and will happen but as I said in the previous entry in this post, the Tyrells need to lose men fast. Besides taking Oldtown would be very nice for the Ironborn.

As I argued in the OP I think they'll lure the Tyrells into a trap by forcing them to cross a second time to aid Highgarden and than attack them and massacre their men while they are crossing (their ships would demand a steap price for crossing and the men who survive that would be vunerable when they reach the riverbanks, because they would be soking wet, tired and if the Ironborn were to have a tokenforce to hold the riverbanks, they could easily butcher them when they come out of the water. Fancy armour and pretty horses won't help them then.)

But if the Tyrells were to split their armies (one back to Highgarden, one to retake Oldtown) that would also be in favour off the Ironborn. If the Ironborn take the city, they have certain advantages over the Tyrells:

1) The Tyrells would arrive to a burning city filled with bodies and rubble, hindered by scared refugees. If they want the city back they need to enter it and than they loose their greatest strength namely their heavy cavalry, which is useless in a city.

2) The Ironborn are more accustomed to their surroundings. They had the chance to choose there positions (obvioulsy controlling the high ground) and they are more used to this kind of warfare. The Reachmen are trained for fighting on large open battle fields, where they can use their speed and outmaneuver their foes and if things turn sour they can always make a run for it. The Ironborn on the other hand are trained for naval warfare, which offers no escape (victory or death), fighting on the deck of a ship is bloody, brutal and you can't run + you have limited amounts of space to move in. The Ironborn fighting style is thus more suited for room to room fighting.

3) The commanding structure of the Tyrells would prove ineffective, they can't rely on signals nor messages to get their orders across. The Ironborn however are different, remember when I said that the biggest Ironborn flaw was their "every-captain-is-king-on-his-own-ship" lifestyle? Well, during thight, violent city warfare that lifestyle is actually a bonus because every captain would be capable of making his own decisions instead of waiting for orders.

4) The Ironborn would make the Reachmen bleed for every morsel of ground, the price would be immense for the Reachmen but they could push the Ironborn out of the city eventually. And you know what the Ironborn would do? They would just retreat to their ships and leave the Tyrells with a burned city totally robbed of all its valuables and a shitload of corpses and wounded without a chanche of coming after them.

So yeah, Euron is that good :P

[Winterz]

You have plenty of understatements there. Both Willas and Garlan are good battle commanders, Mace himself isn't bad, we've just not seen enough action from their side but do not underestimate them.

Also you seem to rely on the "Ironborn holding Oldtown", that is again very unlikely and unusual for the Ironborn, they are not meant for defense keeping, they plunder and they leave, that is how Ironborn fare. Like you've said it already, the Ironborn's strength is at sea, re-taking Oldtown would be a pretty easy task for the Reach forces and in fact I take back what I said, Oldtown seems to have a rather powerful garrison, I'll find it hard to believe that the Ironborn arrive and take the city easily and quicky enough to avoid the Reach armies that will come to its aid. Remember the Greyjoy Rebellion?

The big plot hole of your suggestion is really that you seem to suggest that Euron knows better the Reach than the own Reach armies and hardened commanders. Also, that Reach lords will just betray their overlord for the Ironborn.

[Veltigar]

Adultery is still adultery, not that bad, but just the tip of the iceberg. I acknowledge the fact that Renly would've killed Stannis anyways,but would it still be an easy thing to do to kill your brother? There were also more options, he just chose not to take them.

Stannis clearly regrets what had to be done (didn't he say something along the lines of "I didn't care for the man he became, but he was my little brother" and "decisions I have to live with for the rest of my life"). It wasn't easy at all.

Adultery is still adultery, not that bad, but just the tip of the iceberg. I acknowledge the fact that Renly would've killed Stannis anyways,but would it still be an easy thing to do to kill your brother? There were also more options, he just chose not to take them.

No, he didn't have any other options. He needed to kill Renly or be killed by him (Bowing to Renly was impossible, he couldn't let the Realm be ruled by his not so bright brother).

Edric would've been toast anyways if not for davos. If stannis had done nothing, he would've killed edric when the redwynes came to kill him.

Maybe in a world without Davos Seaworth to show Stannis the letter, but without that action there woudln't be a story so this is highly irrelevant.

Mance was a threat, but the burning shows that he is willing to do that kind of things.

There is a big difference between burning a convicted criminal and an innocent boy.

Again, I will explain the reasons for him as the night king. First of all, location. Something Euron doesn't have. Secondly, Theon and Ransay need some closure, or if not them, jon and ramsay. He dies either way. Roose is somewhat likely, but we haven't seen any connections between him and the nights king. How would he get past the Wall anyways? Euron is not a good choice either because he needs to do something about the Tyrells and because him and Vic need to meet up again. There's the similarities between Stannis and the original nights king. First, they are both high lords. Second, they both gave their seed to the nights queen and with that, giving her their souls. Then there's the white skin and pale blue eyes. Lastly, the story is told to bran, who is like stannis in which they are both second sons with a dead father mother and brother.

Roose and Ramsay could get past the wall using Gorne's way. And when exactly where there connections between Stannis and the NK apart from Stannis taking the Nightfort (which he hasn't even inspected yet)? Because those you mention aren't convincing. Roose, Euron and Ramsay as well are all lords. Stannis fucked Mell, who is a priestess of fire and about as far removed from an icey bitch than you could get without fucking a dragon. Stannis has blue eyes that's true. But Euron has them as well and Roose and Ramsay's eyes are described as querly pale 'they call it ghost grey).

Roose and Ramsay both have more connections, they are cruel and vicious, there family name has been brought up as one of the possible houses of origin for the NK (There is also a very interesting theory out there that the Boltons are actually decendant of the NK and his icewife) and than there are the strange creepy eyes they share. Plus you argue that Stannis could join the others out of spite, but the same just as easily goes for the Boltons because we know for sure they'll get the boot and lose their power (if not than Stannis is a dead man and than he can't be the NK).

Euron on the other hand has ships to get far north passed the wall. He's also strongly associated with magic (drinking shade of the evening) and many speculate that Euron probably has some wargish capacities in him (he dreamed of flying). He'll of course toast the Tyrells, but I'm not sure wheter or not he's going to meet up with Vic or not. If he has a confrontation with Dany before the Second Dance than he has time enough to get to the far north.

[Veltigar]

You have plenty of understatements there. Both Willas and Garlan are good battle commanders, Mace himself isn't bad, we've just not seen enough action from their side but do not underestimate them.

:lmao: Mace Tyrell a decent battle commander. My nan would do a far better job at commanding an army than he ever could.

How can you know Willas is a good battle commander we don't really know anything about him. The way he came across to me suggested that he's probably a capable ruler of a region in peace time, but he certainly is no man of war. The military commander of the family is Garlan. And guess what beside from the fact that he's good with a sword we don't know if he's any good at commanding an army (and being good with a sword doesn't seem to predict your commanding skills, unless you suggest otherwise?)

Also you seem to rely on the "Ironborn holding Oldtown", that is again very unlikely and unusual for the Ironborn, they are not meant for defense keeping, they plunder and they leave, that is how Ironborn fare. Like you've said it already, the Ironborn's strength is at sea, re-taking Oldtown would be a pretty easy task for the Reach forces and in fact I take back what I said, Oldtown seems to have a rather powerful garrison, I'll find it hard to believe that the Ironborn arrive and take the city easily and quicky enough to avoid the Reach armies that will come to its aid. Remember the Greyjoy Rebellion?

In fact the Oldtown garrison is so powerfull that the old man in his tower has sent away his sons to hire mercenaries in the free cities to strengthen his garrison. That's how confident the old bastard is :P

For the rest I refer to my previous Ironborn post (nr. 149)

[Veltigar]

The big plot hole of your suggestion is really that you seem to suggest that Euron knows better the Reach than the own Reach armies and hardened commanders. Also, that Reach lords will just betray their overlord for the Ironborn.

It's called reading a map and Euron knows more about rivers, seas and coastal area's than the Reachmen ever could.

And I didn't say anything about betraying their overlord. The only House I listed that could possibly join the Ironborn is House Florent, but than again they seem to have had a little run in with their overlords... That tends to happen when you give their lands and holdings to one of your own younger children.

[Veltigar]

Also, I never thought Dany would save everything and it's all flowers and sunshine like you seem to think. I think she will come after so many cassualties that the battle would just annihilate both sides almost to the point of extinction. Dany fighting Aegon and losing people and maybe a dragon or two or even dying in the battle for the dawn is er bittersweet ending.

Cliche. I for one think that the main characters of this story need some time to interact right before things go sour.

[Veltigar]

Dear Ser Veltigar

Yes, Ser Nathan? :laugh:

Edited after reading the whole OP.

I want to add that in my opinion the content you sum up will mostly fill a whole book and I think that the Dany-going-to-Westeros part will happen in the last book. I really like that in your version the two big battles, the Battle for Mereen and the Battle of Ice, will not happen instantly. There will/could happen a lot of stuff before these two big clashes.

It does indeed seem massive, but this is only the first part. Martin said that tWoW will see a Second Dance of Dragons (=Civil war) between Dany and Faegon, so Faegon needs to get strong very fast and Dany needs to get moving to Westeros.

I have read your post to point 7 and liked it thus far. Have to do a little break.

There are some things that concern me. I'll start with the point of the Ironborn vs the Tyrells. I am sorry if some if this content has already been discussed but I had no time to read through the whole thread.

You expect that one part of the Tyrell host is still at Brightwater Keep and the other part in/around Highgarden. Surely the have to meet to face the Ironborn and I like your thought that the Florents will rebel against the Tyrells and support the Ironborn. I think that Garlan and Willas will not be so stupid to cross the river downstream from Highgarden because they know about the strenght of their enemy on the water. Most surely I would rally all troops at Highgarden and stirke south-west to the coast where the Ironborn presume to be. Second I can't see the Ironborn have a chance in facing a Tyrell host in open battle. Their power on the sea is uncontested but when they set foot on land they mostly raid and act in small groups so I do not think that they can stand a well organised Tyrell host in terms of tactics and numbers, even with support of the Florents. Moreover I think the Tyrells will be one of the major enemies in the late part of the story against (F)Aegon and/or Dany.

If the Tyrells will get smashed this early on there will only be the Lannisters, the remnants of the Tyrells at KL, the Gold Cloaks, maybe some Riverlords and possibly (but I do not think to) the Vale against Dany which would not be an enemy who needs Dragons to be defeted.

I answered this in post 144-149-152-153 on page 8 (there was another concerned reader who asked explanation on my views so I started with this)

[Veltigar]

The part about (F)Aegon I do not agree 100% with you because I am not sure if I think that Aegon is real or not. Even if he is not the real Aegon there is still the possibility of a reunion of the Targaryens and the Blackfyres. In this case I think that Aegon will not marry Arianne but it seems to me quite reasonable that they'll marry. Maybe it will be some brilliant act of his youth like the one that he wants to lead the attack on Storm's End.

Since we are going to see a civil war between Faegon and Dany the possibility of them getting it on has dropped to zero.

The Darkstar part I really liked too. He is such a mysterious character and I would like to know more about his motivation and especially about the Daynes. But somehow I can't see him kill Doran.

I'm curious... why not?

I like most parts of your predictions, especially the BF and Jon Snow part. I really hope that at the time all the POV's around Mereen will meet some of the POV's will vanish. It was one thing I did not really like in the last half of aDwD - a lot of POV's in and around Mereen. Victarions and Barristans actions could be seen out of Tyrions POV in the future.

I'm glad you like some of it. I must however disagree with you on seeing most of the actions true Tyrions eyes. All three characters will offer us inticing views of Mereen + they probably be needed to shed light on various intrigues, developments and hostilities. Besides Victarion and Barry are just so awesome as POV chapters (you should check out the summary for the two Barry chapters... Awesome material).

[Veltigar]

I have a really cool idea that just came to me as I was reading the last chapter in SoS at the Eyrie.

I think that Sansa's little winterfell snow castle is a prophecy of sorts. So she builds the entire castle out of snow, and right now at the end of DwD the actual Winterfell is completely covered in Snow and is currently occupied by Ramsay Snow. Ok so then sweetRobin comes out and marches his doll up to the front gate and says.' look here comes a giant to knock it down'

Then he knocks the gate down with his 'giant' doll.

I think it is foreshadowing for how they will get to Ramsay at Winterfell. I think Jon Snow is going to be revived much quicker than ppl think by Melisandre and he is going to wake up and continue on his purpose to march on Winterfell. Ramsay just sent like half his force to take Stannis, so the castle will not be so well defended as it was. I think Jon will take wun-wun down there and Wun-Wun will tear the gate off Winterfell (probably die while doing so) and then Jon will get the chance to stab Longclaw through Ramsays terrible bastard heart while it's still beating :drool:

Right? Does anyone else think this is possible?

Roose holds WF, Ramsay has gone out to play with Stannis. Stannis will shred the Freys, turn the Manderleys and than attack Ramsay's host. Than he'll take WF.

Jon won't be revived that soon and even if he does get revived he and Wun-Wun would never get there in time. Umbers could very well throw the gates open, so that's a viable possibility.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Roose holds WF, Ramsay has gone out to play with Stannis. Stannis will shred the Freys, turn the Manderleys and than attack Ramsay's host. Than he'll take WF.

Jon won't be revived that soon and even if he does get revived he and Wun-Wun would never get there in time. Umbers could very well throw the gates open, so that's a viable possibility.

Do we know that Ramsay has left WF? he just wrote Jon that letter (or someone wrote it and signed his name). Either way Sansa's castle could just represent winterfell covered in snow not that a 'Snow' held it.

[Veltigar]

Do we know that Ramsay has left WF? he just wrote Jon that letter (or someone wrote it and signed his name). Either way Sansa's castle could just represent winterfell covered in snow not that a 'Snow' held it.

That's more plausible. But I don't think the snowcastle is something prophetic. But we"ll have to wait untill tWoW

[Suzanna Stormborn]

That's more plausible. But I don't think the snowcastle is something prophetic. But we"ll have to wait untill tWoW

we will just have to wait :frown5: . seems like that is the damn final answer to every one of these threads :bang:

But if you read that sansa chapter again. the fact that Sansa is the one who builds it and she's a Stark, it's her first chapter at the eyrie, the last chapter in SoS, and what happens right after with lysa and LF, it does seem like a very prophetic moment to me. PLus no where else in the books do we see a small model of Winterfell (or any castle) like that. So I definitely think it is foreshadowing for getting Winterfell back.