My Personal Predictions for the first part of the WoW

[Veltigar]

we will just have to wait :frown5: . seems like that is the damn final answer to every one of these threads :bang:

But if you read that sansa chapter again. the fact that Sansa is the one who builds it and she's a Stark, it's her first chapter at the eyrie, the last chapter in SoS, and what happens right after with lysa and LF, it does seem like a very prophetic moment to me. PLus no where else in the books do we see a small model of Winterfell (or any castle) like that. So I definitely think it is foreshadowing for getting Winterfell back.

I hope not, seeing that WF got squashed and all that (I know it's not exactly prime real estate now, but at least the walls are still standing. + Roose Bolton has added a marvellous new roof)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I hope not, seeing that WF got squashed and all that (I know it's not exactly prime real estate now, but at least the walls are still standing. + Roose Bolton has added a marvellous new roof)

yeah but it's more just a giant crashing through the front gate. The funny part is afterwards Sansa rips the dolls head off and sticks it on a spike on the tallest tower. that's why it think if it is Wun-wun he will die in his attempt.

[Veltigar]

yeah but it's more just a giant crashing through the front gate. The funny part is afterwards Sansa rips the dolls head off and sticks it on a spike on the tallest tower. that's why it think if it is Wun-wun he will die in his attempt.

If that scene is forshadowing than it has more to do with Sansa's arc IMO. She wants to return to WF and thus she starts to built that castle. LF helps her to built said snow castle just like he's going to "help" her reclaim WF. But than SR comes along and trashes her dream of retunring to WF which she so carefully constructed with LF(which ties in nicely with my theory about Sansa choosing not to sacrifize SR on the altar ofher dreams).

[Suzanna Stormborn]

If that scene is forshadowing than it has more to do with Sansa's arc IMO. She wants to return to WF and thus she starts to built that castle. LF helps her to built said snow castle just like he's going to "help" her reclaim WF. But than SR comes along and trashes her dream of retunring to WF which she so carefully constructed with LF(which ties in nicely with my theory about Sansa choosing not to sacrifize SR on the altar ofher dreams).

that could be true too, it could be forshadowing for both.

What is your theory about SR? :dunno:

[Veltigar]

that could be true too, it could be forshadowing for both.

What is your theory about SR? :dunno:

Basicly this:

1) Alayne is going to be the shining star of the Gates of the Moon (admired by all) and we'll see her making new friends and bounding with SR

2) HtH is introduced: he's portrayed as a competent knight but very cocky.

3) Sansa and HtH interact. HtH at first looks alright, but we soon see him behave badly. he'll probably behave misogynistic (talking trash about Mya and Myranda probably)

4) Sansa starts feeling anoyed about HtH, while LF keeps pushing her.

5) HtH realising that Sansa isn't one of the normal girls who kiss the ground he walks upon (being the heir to the Vale probably gives him a huge headstart with the ladies). Sansa starts to intrigue him. She's not just an extremely pretty face, she's also kind, smart and competent.

6) The inevitable happens: HtH falls for Sansa (Think Bob Baratheon falling for Lyanna style)

7) Sansa on the other hand is more and more put off by him and she realises that she doesn't want to marry the little shit.

8) Brienne and her escort arrive. The escort consists of men sworn to Brienne namely: Pod, Ser Hyal and the surviving members of the Berricfaction of the BwB (Ser Gendry of the Hollow Hill, Thoros and others), who have been pardoned by Jaime on the condition that they swear allegiance to Brienne.

9) LF, after hearing news of Faegons landing and other developments smells that their time is near. He presses Sansa to seal the deal.

10) Sansa refuses, both HtH and LF are furious and start becoming violent (I hope it never comes to this but it wouldn't surprise me at all if HtH tries to rape her)

11) LF and HtH secretely ally. LF threatens to kill SR, because if HtH becomes Lord of the Vale he can force "Alayne" into marrying him.

12) Sansa realises that, whatever she does, SR is definitley going to be bumped off.

13) Sansa enlists her friends to aid her in fleeing with SR (Mya, Myranda, mayhaps Lothor Brune and the mad mouse) and she reveals her identity to Brienne&co.

14) They don't know where to run to (The Bloodgate is to dangerous, Gulltown is filled with LF-loyalists, Runestone is the most lickely but even Bronze Yahn isn't a safe choise since he knighted HtH) and when they try to flee they are found out (The Mad Mouse or Myranda might betray them).

15) They have no other choice than to climb to the Eyrie (They have Mya with them and if anyone could pull it of than it would be Mya)

16) They reach the Eyrie and have to defend it from LF loyalists and HtH (who has been chosen to claim SR back, they probably conjured up a story about SR being kidnapped by Tyrion and his wife or by Brienne).

17) Just when they seem to get defeated, a dragon flies in. Dany's armies have landed at Gulltown (=Targaryen loyalists during Bob's rebellion) and Dany has come to accept SR surrender, just like Visenya did all those years before. Dany burns the LF-loyalists, HtH dies horribly. LF will probably die too, but maybe he escapes.

18) SR gets to fly the dragon like his hero (the winged knight or something like that) and swears allegiance to Dany. Sansa reveals herself to the nobles in the Vale and gets appointed as his Guardian. She'll probably get on well with Dany (after some initial awkwardness about their dads and about Tyrion walking around).

That's my theory about the Vale/SR/Sansa. (note: not sure about the order of point 10 and 11, they could change places)

[EDIT: changed Cersei to Jaime, wasn't thinking straight]

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Basicly this:

1) Alayne is going to be the shining star of the Gates of the Moon (admired by all) and we'll see her making new friends and bounding with SR

2) HtH is introduced: he's portrayed as a competent knight but very cocky.

3) Sansa and HtH interact. HtH at first looks alright, but we soon see him behave badly. he'll probably behave misogynistic (talking trash about Mya and Myranda probably)

4) Sansa starts feeling anoyed about HtH, while LF keeps pushing her.

5) HtH realising that Sansa isn't one of the normal girls who kiss the ground he walks upon (being the heir to the Vale probably gives him a huge headstart with the ladies). Sansa starts to intrigue him. She's not just an extremely pretty face, she's also kind, smart and competent.

6) The inevitable happens: HtH falls for Sansa (Think Bob Baratheon falling for Lyanna style)

7) Sansa on the other hand is more and more put off by him and she realises that she doesn't want to marry the little shit.

8) Brienne and her escort arrive. The escort consists of men sworn to Brienne namely: Pod, Ser Hyal and the surviving members of the Berricfaction of the BwB (Ser Gendry of the Hollow Hill, Thoros and others), who have been pardoned by Cersei on the condition that they swear allegiance to Brienne.

9) LF, after hearing news of Faegons landing and other developments smells that their time is near. He presses Sansa to seal the deal.

10) Sansa refuses, both HtH and LF are furious and start becoming violent (I hope it never comes to this but it wouldn't surprise me at all if HtH tries to rape her)

11) LF and HtH secretely ally. LF threatens to kill SR, because if HtH becomes Lord of the Vale he can force "Alayne" into marrying him.

12) Sansa realises that, whatever she does, SR is definitley going to be bumped off.

13) Sansa enlists her friends to aid her in fleeing with SR (Mya, Myranda, mayhaps Lothor Brune and the mad mouse) and she reveals her identity to Brienne&co.

14) They don't know where to run to (The Bloodgate is to dangerous, Gulltown is filled with LF-loyalists, Runestone is the most lickely but even Bronze Yahn isn't a safe choise since he knighted HtH) and when they try to flee they are found out (The Mad Mouse or Myranda might betray them).

15) They have no other choice than to climb to the Eyrie (They have Mya with them and if anyone could pull it of than it would be Mya)

16) They reach the Eyrie and have to defend it from LF loyalists and HtH (who has been chosen to claim SR back, they probably conjured up a story about SR being kidnapped by Tyrion and his wife or by Brienne).

17) Just when they seem to get defeated, a dragon flies in. Dany's armies have landed at Gulltown (=Targaryen loyalists during Bob's rebellion) and Dany has come to accept SR surrender, just like Visenya did all those years before. Dany burns the LF-loyalists, HtH dies horribly. LF will probably die too, but maybe he escapes.

18) SR gets to fly the dragon like his hero (the winged knight or something like that) and swears allegiance to Dany. Sansa reveals herself to the nobles in the Vale and gets appointed as his Guardian. She'll probably get on well with Dany (after some initial awkwardness about their dads and about Tyrion walking around).

That's my theory about the Vale/SR/Sansa. (note: not sure about the order of point 10 and 11, they could change places)

Oh wow! that sounds pretty close to what will happen, i had some ideas that fall right in with that too. Only why is cersei pardoning brienne? And don't you think Jaime will be with her?

OH wow that is a bunch of good ideas though and Roberts bastards could finally start meeting up, only if Gendry is with Brienne of course. Oh man I hope you're right about Dany!

[Veltigar]

Oh wow! that sounds pretty close to what will happen, i had some ideas that fall right in with that too. Only why is cersei pardoning brienne? And don't you think Jaime will be with her?

OH wow that is a bunch of good ideas though and Roberts bastards could finally start meeting up, only if Gendry is with Brienne of course. Oh man I hope you're right about Dany!

Oops, the bold part was a typo. I wanted to say Jaime, I'll edit that out. Jaime as LC and general of that mission has the power to pardon them all. Jaime won't be coming with them, I think that the reason why the Berricfaction of the BwB decides to lay down their weapons is the fact that they have to swear allegiance to someone who has shown to be a true knight (Brienne), insteed of swearing allegiance to the Kingslayer.

I don't think Jaime is going to be there with them. After the trial he'll probably offer a deal to the Berricfaction because he knows that Brienne needs an escort of loyal men to travel the roads to the Vale (with the mountain clans all active). He'll then equip them and sent them off. He'll also tell Gendry who his father was (I had this crazy theory that somehow while equiping them, Jaime would take Gendry to his tent and give him Bobs old warhammer or Renly's armour that was lying around in one of the supplywagons).

After that Jaime is probably going to stay in the Riverlands for a while, he'll probably be our witness of the aftermath of whatever happens at the Twins (my theory was that BF, Maege Mormont, Galbart Glover, Howland Reed and his crannogmen attack it to free Roslyn and the Northern Lords at the same time butchering a lot of Freys). Than when he learns about the ending of Margaery's trial (massive slaughter), he'll travel to Kingslanding or Casterley Rock (It all depends on how many time their is between Faegon taking the city and the massacre inside the city), confront Cersei about their dead children and kill her (if Myrcella is still a live by than he'll try and make things right, see her die and than kill Cersei).

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Stannis clearly regrets what had to be done (didn't he say something along the lines of "I didn't care for the man he became, but he was my little brother" and "decisions I have to live with for the rest of my life"). It wasn't easy at all.

No, he didn't have any other options. He needed to kill Renly or be killed by him (Bowing to Renly was impossible, he couldn't let the Realm be ruled by his not so bright brother).

Maybe in a world without Davos Seaworth to show Stannis the letter, but without that action there woudln't be a story so this is highly irrelevant.

There is a big difference between burning a convicted criminal and an innocent boy.

Roose and Ramsay could get past the wall using Gorne's way. And when exactly where there connections between Stannis and the NK apart from Stannis taking the Nightfort (which he hasn't even inspected yet)? Because those you mention aren't convincing. Roose, Euron and Ramsay as well are all lords. Stannis fucked Mell, who is a priestess of fire and about as far removed from an icey bitch than you could get without fucking a dragon. Stannis has blue eyes that's true. But Euron has them as well and Roose and Ramsay's eyes are described as querly pale 'they call it ghost grey).

Roose and Ramsay both have more connections, they are cruel and vicious, there family name has been brought up as one of the possible houses of origin for the NK (There is also a very interesting theory out there that the Boltons are actually decendant of the NK and his icewife) and than there are the strange creepy eyes they share. Plus you argue that Stannis could join the others out of spite, but the same just as easily goes for the Boltons because we know for sure they'll get the boot and lose their power (if not than Stannis is a dead man and than he can't be the NK).

Euron on the other hand has ships to get far north passed the wall. He's also strongly associated with magic (drinking shade of the evening) and many speculate that Euron probably has some wargish capacities in him (he dreamed of flying). He'll of course toast the Tyrells, but I'm not sure wheter or not he's going to meet up with Vic or not. If he has a confrontation with Dany before the Second Dance than he has time enough to get to the far north.

Ok. If you can give me let's say four convincing reasons to one character becoming the nights king with some similarities, I'll say Stannis won't be it. Also, the point of naming the things Stannis did is to show his spiraling insanity for lack of a better word. If you were Stannis, would you kill your brother, indirectly or not it doesn't matter nor does Renly's actions, Stannis attacked first, cheat on your wife, consider burning a child alive, actually burn a man alive? Also, how would Roose get to the castle, i believe its the Shadow tower or the nightsfort, in the middle of winter? Even if he did, how would he dig out Gornes way and find the way through? And even if Roose became the nights king, he isnt a great commander, ransay is worse, euron is only good at naval battles, not midland ones in a snowstorm. Stannis on the otherhand would be the one thing that just pushes everything into chaos because hes a great commander. Even if the wall fell after roose takes control, Jon, who would most likely be leading the resistance, would kick his ass so hard, Dany wouldnt need to do shit.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Cliche. I for one think that the main characters of this story need some time to interact right before things go sour.

So what do you think is Dany's ending?

[Veltigar]

Ok. If you can give me let's say four convincing reasons to one character becoming the nights king with some similarities, I'll say Stannis won't be it. Also, the point of naming the things Stannis did is to show his spiraling insanity for lack of a better word. If you were Stannis, would you kill your brother, indirectly or not it doesn't matter nor does Renly's actions, Stannis attacked first, cheat on your wife, consider burning a child alive, actually burn a man alive? Also, how would Roose get to the castle, i believe its the Shadow tower or the nightsfort, in the middle of winter? Even if he did, how would he dig out Gornes way and find the way through? And even if Roose became the nights king, he isnt a great commander, ransay is worse, euron is only good at naval battles, not midland ones in a snowstorm. Stannis on the otherhand would be the one thing that just pushes everything into chaos because hes a great commander. Even if the wall fell after roose takes control, Jon, who would most likely be leading the resistance, would kick his ass so hard, Dany wouldnt need to do shit.

I already gave them:

1) Eyecolor: Stannis and Euron have blue eyes. Ramsay and Roose however have a strange eyecolor, which is remarkably pale...

2) Location: Euron could sail with a ship past the wall. Ramsay and Roose could get through Gorne's way, don't forget that this is a work of fiction if they flee from WF and take shelter in the caves they might be forced to venture deeper into the abyss and eventually turn out somewhere north. Stannis doesn't know about the passage in theNightfort, and if people are going to screw him over like you seem to think he can't just pass through the gate.

3) heritage: The Boltons are associated with the NK

4) Brother: Euron and Ramsay are little brothers, just as Stannis was.

5) Violent nature and thirst for revenge: Roose, Ramsay and Euron are better candidates than Stannis. In fact both Ramsay and Euron murdered or hired someone to murder their own brother. And while Stannis has an excuse for killing Renly (being the rightfull heir and better for the Realm), Ramsay and Euron killed their brothers because they craved his power, while their brothers have never done anything against them (especially Ramsay vs. Domeric).

6) Association with magic: Euron drinks shade of the evening, he's captured 3 warlocks, he sailed through Old Valyria and he has allied himself with at least one FM/Maegi. Roose and Ramsay grew up in the north so they have that specific understanding of the history of Winter. Stannis is associated with firemagic.

Are these all strong and compelling reasons? No, they are not, but they are still beter than the arguments pro-Stannis-as-the-NK.

Although I must say that this whole discussion seems a bit irrelevant to me. Personally, I don't really think we're going to see a Nightsking, but if we get one Roose/Ramsay/Euron are the lickeliest.

[Veltigar]

So what do you think is Dany's ending?

After the Second Dance and the defeat of Faegon and others, Dany will prepare to head north to meet Stannis or whoever is in charge by than. She'll have at least some time to interact with other major players still a live, like Jon (Stark reunion + finally learning that she isn't alone anymore). And than the main attack of the others comes. If she will survive or die I do not know (although I think either she or Jon dies, and I think that Jon is more lickely to go out in a blaze of glory).

[KingHodorTargaryen]

I already gave them:

1) Eyecolor: Stannis and Euron have blue eyes. Ramsay and Roose however have a strange eyecolor, which is remarkably pale...

2) Location: Euron could sail with a ship past the wall. Ramsay and Roose could get through Gorne's way, don't forget that this is a work of fiction if they flee from WF and take shelter in the caves they might be forced to venture deeper into the abyss and eventually turn out somewhere north. Stannis doesn't know about the passage in theNightfort, and if people are going to screw him over like you seem to think he can't just pass through the gate.

3) heritage: The Boltons are associated with the NK

4) Brother: Euron and Ramsay are little brothers, just as Stannis was.

5) Violent nature and thirst for revenge: Roose, Ramsay and Euron are better candidates than Stannis. In fact both Ramsay and Euron murdered or hired someone to murder their own brother. And while Stannis has an excuse for killing Renly (being the rightfull heir and better for the Realm), Ramsay and Euron killed their brothers because they craved his power, while their brothers have never done anything against them (especially Ramsay vs. Domeric).

6) Association with magic: Euron drinks shade of the evening, he's captured 3 warlocks, he sailed through Old Valyria and he has allied himself with at least one FM/Maegi. Roose and Ramsay grew up in the north so they have that specific understanding of the history of Winter. Stannis is associated with firemagic.

Are these all strong and compelling reasons? No, they are not, but they are still beter than the arguments pro-Stannis-as-the-NK.

Although I must say that this whole discussion seems a bit irrelevant to me. Personally, I don't really think we're going to see a Nightsking, but if we get one Roose/Ramsay/Euron are the lickeliest.

We might as well see one.

1. Agree here, yet there is more attention to blue eyes, not simple pale ones.

2.This one applies to Stannis as well. Stannis is a king, do you really think castle black wouldnt open the gates for him?

3. I never saw this confirmed, but an interesting theory nonetheless

4. Applies to Stannis as well.

5. Actually a nice point there, yet Ramsay needs to be confronted by Theon and/or Jon and Euron by Vic and/or Dany

6.Stannis knows more of magic than any of them. Also, if he is betrayed by Mel after Jon is revealed as AA, he would turn away from fire magic to the others.

Also, I find myself totally agreeing with you on Dany's arc line except for the whole night king as well as Jon or Dany dieing, except that might just be personal preference and i dont want either to die.

[Veltigar]

We might as well see one.

1. Agree here, yet there is more attention to blue eyes, not simple pale ones.

Actually, I think that the paleness is more important. Icey eyes and all that.

2.This one applies to Stannis as well. Stannis is a king, do you really think castle black wouldnt open the gates for him?

For Stannis to go this crazy he needs to be betrayed... big time. Like killing Shireen or something like that and if they come to that point than Stannis won't be King of anything anymore so they wouldn't open the gate.

3. I never saw this confirmed, but an interesting theory nonetheless

Me neither, but even if the heritage theory turns out to be a hoax than you still have the fact that old Nan listed the Boltons as possible for the first NK.

5. Actually a nice point there, yet Ramsay needs to be confronted by Theon and/or Jon and Euron by Vic and/or Dany

I don't agree with you on Euron. Vic is as good as dead either by Euron but probably before that (which makes me terribly sad because Victarion is one of my absoulte favorites alongside Jon, Stannis, Jaime and Hot Pie). And although Euron tries to steal one of Dany's dragons, they don't really have much beef (everybody tries to take them from her).

If Ramsay is the NK, than Theon and Jon could still be the one to finish him off after he becomes NK. Actually they could both play apart in it if you subscribe to the Theon-needs-to-die-to-revive-Jon Snow/AA. I also think that the main thing for Theon is to stand up to Ramsay and call him Snow and bastard. That's more important for him than actually dishing out the killing blow.

6.Stannis knows more of magic than any of them. Also, if he is betrayed by Mel after Jon is revealed as AA, he would turn away from fire magic to the others.

The wrong kind of magic. And Euron is still the magic master out of all these characters. Many think that Stannis already on his path to leave R'hlorr but not for the others but for the Old Gods (again if you subscribe to the Theons-death-revives-Jon-theory)

Also, I find myself totally agreeing with you on Dany's arc line except for the whole night king as well as Jon or Dany dieing, except that might just be personal preference and i dont want either to die.

I'm a Jon-Dany shipper so I personally hope they won't die and live happily ever after. But sadly this isn't probable in this story

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Actually, I think that the paleness is more important. Icey eyes and all that.

For Stannis to go this crazy he needs to be betrayed... big time. Like killing Shireen or something like that and if they come to that point than Stannis won't be King of anything anymore so they wouldn't open the gate.

Me neither, but even if the heritage theory turns out to be a hoax than you still have the fact that old Nan listed the Boltons as possible for the first NK.

I don't agree with you on Euron. Vic is as good as dead either by Euron but probably before that (which makes me terribly sad because Victarion is one of my absoulte favorites alongside Jon, Stannis, Jaime and Hot Pie). And although Euron tries to steal one of Dany's dragons, they don't really have much beef (everybody tries to take them from her).

If Ramsay is the NK, than Theon and Jon could still be the one to finish him off after he becomes NK. Actually they could both play apart in it if you subscribe to the Theon-needs-to-die-to-revive-Jon Snow/AA. I also think that the main thing for Theon is to stand up to Ramsay and call him Snow and bastard. That's more important for him than actually dishing out the killing blow.

The wrong kind of magic. And Euron is still the magic master out of all these characters. Many think that Stannis already on his path to leave R'hlorr but not for the others but for the Old Gods (again if you subscribe to the Theons-death-revives-Jon-theory)

I'm a Jon-Dany shipper so I personally hope they won't die and live happily ever after. But sadly this isn't probable in this story

1. In the prologue of Game of Thrones, Will sees that Royce has the bluest eyes he had ever seen when he was turned. I think that the darker the color, the deeper it is. Pale eyes to me look very much like an icey shallow pond, but i guess oersonal opinion on that.

2. I don't know how the guard watch works at the gate, but if someone if standing guard at the gate, they wont be able to see what is goign on. If a king tells you to open the gate, you open it, no questions asked.

3. To that, you have the whole thing about how the night king was killed by his brother. for similarities sake, the brother of the new one has had to have been a massive douche at least to someone. Domeric was kind to Ransay and Balon was only justful of Euron's actions. Robert let Stannis rule the kingdom while he sat around.

4. Ramsay is a dead man walking. He wont have the sense to run, is hated even more than Roose and is too prideful and convinced of himself. Euron also at the moment is caught up annihilating the Tyrell army. Not much time before he can have something done to him, sail really far north, actually make the journey, and then join the others to assault the wall.

5. We both agree Stannis is turning from the fire god to the old gods. So, others and old gods arent really too far apart.

Unrelated question, how many main characters/dragons do you think Dany will lose fighting Faegon?

[Veltigar]

3. To that, you have the whole thing about how the night king was killed by his brother. for similarities sake, the brother of the new one has had to have been a massive douche at least to someone. Domeric was kind to Ransay and Balon was only justful of Euron's actions. Robert let Stannis rule the kingdom while he sat around.

... This is plain :bs: The NK was the bad guy, his brother was the good guy. Which makes an even stronger case for Ramsay seeing that his brother was actually a pretty decent bloke.

2. I don't know how the guard watch works at the gate, but if someone if standing guard at the gate, they wont be able to see what is goign on. If a king tells you to open the gate, you open it, no questions asked.

If they conspire against Stannis, than everyone must be in on it, so they won't led him past.

4. Ramsay is a dead man walking. He wont have the sense to run, is hated even more than Roose and is too prideful and convinced of himself. Euron also at the moment is caught up annihilating the Tyrell army. Not much time before he can have something done to him, sail really far north, actually make the journey, and then join the others to assault the wall.

5. We both agree Stannis is turning from the fire god to the old gods. So, others and old gods arent really too far apart.

Bold part = :bs: He was smart enough to pose as Reek in ACOK. I'm not saying he's a genious, but Ramsay excels at a sort of low cunning. And his pride and lust for vengeance are the perfect NK mixture.

Concerning Euron: Ever thought about the possibility that he's already in cohoots with the others? + the Others are on the move as well so he doesn't have to go the entire length.

The others and Old Gods are distinct entities. If yo believe in the Old Gods, as a human, you are probably the strongest enemy of the others since the story about their cruelty touch the very hart of the religion.

[Veltigar]

Unrelated question, how many main characters/dragons do you think Dany will lose fighting Faegon?

I have not yet maid my mind up about Dany losing dragons...

But tWoW is going to be a bloodbath. Dany is certainly going to lose Vic, Daario, (probably) Barry, almost her entire Mereen staf (I can't really see for instance the Shavepate going to Westeros), Missandei [i'm not one of the Missandei-is-the-harpy-theory believers, but she's also a candidate for Dany's betrayal for love (if the sons threaten her brothers maybe) although I don't believe that one. But Missandei has a very special place in Dany's heart and if she dies I can see Dany finally showing that fire and blood are really her words by burning Mereen as a giant pyre for Missandei before they leave to Westeros], the tattered prince (don't think he'll die, he'll just be left in Pentos), Illyrio (questioned and killed in Pentos), Moqorro or Marwyn (one of them or both will die).

JonCon, Faegon and Arianne also have "ment to perish" written on their backs. Varys will probably be killed if LF gets killed (these two are the shadowplayers so they'll probably both be killed by things they didn't take into account. Thus their game of chess ends in a draw).

Dany will replenish her staff with Sansa's crowd from the Vale (so probably some of them get the boot as well) and maybe Arya.

[Concerning the whole Mereen Arc, I'm pretty fine with George killing all of the native Essoscharacters. But the Red Lamb must live!!!]

[Winterz]

One thing I remembered about your Ironborn theory, Veltigar. The ironborn don't know how to fight as an army, Stannis himself confirmed this. They are great fighters but they fight for themselves and for plunder so they're mostly disorganized and this would be a huge plothole for your "Destroy Reach's army", even if they do catch the flowers folk in a trap, especially since Euron doesn't seem to be doing anything about their lack of organization.

[Veltigar]

One thing I remembered about your Ironborn theory, Veltigar. The ironborn don't know how to fight as an army, Stannis himself confirmed this. They are great fighters but they fight for themselves and for plunder so they're mostly disorganized and this would be a huge plothole for your "Destroy Reach's army", even if they do catch the flowers folk in a trap, especially since Euron doesn't seem to be doing anything about their lack of organization.

Posts 144 and 149 of this thread, I have clearly shown that Euron is tying his men to him by rewarding the faithfull ones (and the ones he wants to bribe) with land and titles and punishing those who disobey him.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

I have not yet maid my mind up about Dany losing dragons...

But tWoW is going to be a bloodbath. Dany is certainly going to lose Vic, Daario, (probably) Barry, almost her entire Mereen staf (I can't really see for instance the Shavepate going to Westeros), Missandei [i'm not one of the Missandei-is-the-harpy-theory believers, but she's also a candidate for Dany's betrayal for love (if the sons threaten her brothers maybe) although I don't believe that one. But Missandei has a very special place in Dany's heart and if she dies I can see Dany finally showing that fire and blood are really her words by burning Mereen as a giant pyre for Missandei before they leave to Westeros], the tattered prince (don't think he'll die, he'll just be left in Pentos), Illyrio (questioned and killed in Pentos), Moqorro or Marwyn (one of them or both will die).

JonCon, Faegon and Arianne also have "ment to perish" written on their backs. Varys will probably be killed if LF gets killed (these two are the shadowplayers so they'll probably both be killed by things they didn't take into account. Thus their game of chess ends in a draw).

Dany will replenish her staff with Sansa's crowd from the Vale (so probably some of them get the boot as well) and maybe Arya.

[Concerning the whole Mereen Arc, I'm pretty fine with George killing all of the native Essoscharacters. But the Red Lamb must live!!!]

Totally agree with that. Who is the red lamb again? Also,I am one of those people who don't think Dany will land at the Vale. Why should she? Dragonstone sounds a better place, just take the eyrie creepy dragon castle over and then announce the dragons have returned. Much easier way to get to Kings Landing, which is likely the place she would strike at first, or at least talk to Faegon if he is already king.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

... This is plain :bs: The NK was the bad guy, his brother was the good guy. Which makes an even stronger case for Ramsay seeing that his brother was actually a pretty decent bloke.

If they conspire against Stannis, than everyone must be in on it, so they won't led him past.

Bold part = :bs: He was smart enough to pose as Reek in ACOK. I'm not saying he's a genious, but Ramsay excels at a sort of low cunning. And his pride and lust for vengeance are the perfect NK mixture.

Concerning Euron: Ever thought about the possibility that he's already in cohoots with the others? + the Others are on the move as well so he doesn't have to go the entire length.

The others and Old Gods are distinct entities. If yo believe in the Old Gods, as a human, you are probably the strongest enemy of the others since the story about their cruelty touch the very hart of the religion.

Naming Jon AA and killing or at least disobeying Stannis are two very different things. Also, thought about maybe Stannis killing anyone who says nah, i wont open the gate?

2. Just a small point. Take it with a grain of salt if you like

3. Euron I dont really see being in cohoots with the others because he wants dragons. I think that would just whack him off the list.

Ramsay does possess some low cunning, but if it comes to Stannis being "dead" to get the gates to open, then Ramsay would go up, grab lightbringer, be the first one up to laugh at the corpse, then go on to his his reek. Reek says my name is theon, and you are a snow and a bastard, then the knife plunges as the Manderlys turn their cloaks to slaughter the Bolton men