[Book spoilers] What is Daenerys immunity to fire supposed to represent in the TV show?

[total1402]

The reason I add book spoilers is because its later revealed, well, implied at any rate, that another main character is Azzor Ahai reborn and personally it makes a lot of sense for it to be that character rather than Daenerys. So I don't believe Danys immunity to fire is simply the shows way of saying "she is AA reborn". In fact she very much can't be AA because the other character in question is burned in a manner that the show explicitly shows Dany as being immune to when she picks up the dragon egg out of the embers but is unmarked. Not only is Dany immune to fire in the TV show but it also makes a point of Pyat Pree telling Dany a similar version of what Quiathe tells her in the books; that she strengthens magic n the dragons by her presence. Which adds to the sense of something supernatural regarding Daenerys. But what is it meant to be if not to imply that she is AA reborn? It can't be blood of the dragon because Viserys was blood of the dragon but burnt alive and also didn't cause the strengthening of magic.

Does anyone have any ideas or theories which might explain this?

[Warrior Queen]

I did read all the books.

But: I don't think she is immune to fire at all.

The dragons were a special occasion, it was a miracle. George has said so himself (sorry but i don't remember where, if someone can provide me with a source?) that if she would do it again it probably would end differently.

Same as the person i think is AA Reborn is not immune to fire.

As for what is stand for in the show: I think its stand for the return of magic in a realm where magic was long believed to be 'death' This confirmed by Pyat Pree when he says that their (the warlocks) magic is stronger since the dragons were born.

Daenerys is not the source of Magic, it's the dragons she hatched.

[Tommen]

She's Jesus.

But in all seriousness, it's a singular, miraculous event. In the most literal sense it represents the return of magic to the world, but in the subtext it represents death and rebirth of Dany from girl to woman, child to mother, slave to khaleesi. Her conviction is so strong that she walks fearlessly into the flames. It's epic as f***.

[boojam]

The reason I add book spoilers is because its later revealed, well, implied at any rate, that another main character is Azzor Ahai reborn and personally it makes a lot of sense for it to be that character rather than Daenerys. So I don't believe Danys immunity to fire is simply the shows way of saying "she is AA reborn". In fact she very much can't be AA because the other character in question is burned in a manner that the show explicitly shows Dany as being immune to when she picks up the dragon egg out of the embers but is unmarked. Not only is Dany immune to fire in the TV show but it also makes a point of Pyat Pree telling Dany a similar version of what Quiathe tells her in the books; that she strengthens magic n the dragons by her presence. Which adds to the sense of something supernatural regarding Daenerys. But what is it meant to be if not to imply that she is AA reborn? It can't be blood of the dragon because Viserys was blood of the dragon but burnt alive and also didn't cause the strengthening of magic.

Does anyone have any ideas or theories which might explain this?

According to George she is not. That was just a magic moment.

George even said that Valyrians were no immune to fire.

It's the show's , or let's say D and D's take that she is, and I don't know where the show is taking that idea.

[Conchobar]

The reason I add book spoilers is because its later revealed, well, implied at any rate, that another main character is Azzor Ahai reborn and personally it makes a lot of sense for it to be that character rather than Daenerys. So I don't believe Danys immunity to fire is simply the shows way of saying "she is AA reborn". In fact she very much can't be AA because the other character in question is burned in a manner that the show explicitly shows Dany as being immune to when she picks up the dragon egg out of the embers but is unmarked. Not only is Dany immune to fire in the TV show but it also makes a point of Pyat Pree telling Dany a similar version of what Quiathe tells her in the books; that she strengthens magic n the dragons by her presence. Which adds to the sense of something supernatural regarding Daenerys. But what is it meant to be if not to imply that she is AA reborn? It can't be blood of the dragon because Viserys was blood of the dragon but burnt alive and also didn't cause the strengthening of magic.

Does anyone have any ideas or theories which might explain this?

She is only immune to fire around her dragons.

BIG SPOILER

Jon is Azor Ahai. There was a description in the book saying his wounds were smoking and Bowen was crying, his tears were salt, and Jon's wounds were smoke.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Her "dreams" of hatching eggs in the pyre and brans prophetic dreams are also an interesting expansion/compilation of the books.

[boojam]

Her "dreams" of hatching eggs in the pyre and brans prophetic dreams are also an interesting expansion/compilation of the books.

I don't mind the way George does it, but I kind of like the D and D's , well implied, fireproofing of Dany, we already have touches of magic ... adding a little touch more is something I find charming.

[PatrickStormborn]

Daenerys is still far and away the most likely character to be Azor Ahai reborn.

[Conchobar]

Daenerys is still far and away the most likely character to be Azor Ahai reborn.

No she isn't. There is far more evidence for it being Jon.

[PatrickStormborn]

No she isn't. There is far more evidence for it being Jon.

She is. There isn't much evidence for it being Jon, whilst Daenerys has already fulfilled the prophecy in multiple ways.

[protar]

She is. There isn't much evidence for it being Jon, whilst Daenerys has already fulfilled the prophecy in multiple ways.

Which in a way makes her less likely to be AA. It's far too obvious, even for casual readers. I would be very surprised if Martin did not subvert that in some way.My personal belief is that there will be multiple AA's with Dany as one.

[Conchobar]

She is. There isn't much evidence for it being Jon, whilst Daenerys has already fulfilled the prophecy in multiple ways.

There is plenty of evidence for Jon, (As a commenter on the EW web site pointed out, Jon's wound is described as "SMOKING" in the cold air - note: not "steaming," which would seem to be a very deliberate word choice - and Bowen Marsh's tears are SALTY.

Jon chose his duty to the Night's Watch over his love for Ygritte. He indirectly caused her death by warning Castle Black of the incoming wildling raid. Similar to Azor Ahai sacrificing Nissa Nissa to complete Lightbringer.

Melisandre. When she tries to search the flames for signs of Stannis being Azor Ahai, she only sees Jon Snow.

Jon Snow has a dream where he fights the Others with a red sword burning in his hand.

[boojam]

Daenerys is still far and away the most likely character to be Azor Ahai reborn.

I hope Azor Ahai turns out to be a red herring.

A bucket of horse pucky.

[total1402]

Which would render most of the magical foreshadowing even more irrelevent than it already is. If the AA, TPTWP and Last Hero tales are completely myths then that means Martin will have spent most of the series not even giving the slightest hint as to WTF is going on. You shouldn't be more than 2/3 into a series and have not given any information about the main plot you put as the book title. Imagine if Star Wars only began to introduce the light side vs dark side theme in the second half of Return of the Jedi; with everything else about defeating the Empire. You would go from a plot about rebellion to a mythical battle between light and dark personified by a heroic struggle. It would be jarring and wouldn't make any sense. My only consolation is that Martin has at least tried to foreshadow certain things or give an inkling (however cryptic) about what the main plot is all about. If what you say about the prophecies being bull is true then he has told us nothing.

[Dementia]

In the show, I don't think anyone would make a connection between Daenerys and Azor Ahai.

[boojam]

In the show, I don't think anyone would make a connection between Daenerys and Azor Ahai.

I don't remember any mention in the novels.

[daimonionen]

I suppose Dany not getting burnmarks from the eggs, is a hint that she is more or less fireproof, so that her surviving the pyre, doesn't seem too random.

Not that it did for me in the books, but that might have been what they thought would work best for the casual viewer, who might not ponder why Dany could have survive the pyre, but instead just go "Well, that was out the the blue dumb!" if it weren't for the heads up they gave us.

I don't think they'll have her use this "ability" of hers more than for special occations with her dragons - if ever again. Don't see her flinging burning somethings on her enemies any time soon.

[total1402]

I am only referring to the TV show and its internal logic. I don't think they could just turn the ability on and off as it suited them because, for people who haven't read the books, it wouldn't make any sense; especially since the series never attempts to explain WTF is going on with the magic. So its been pretty bluntly established she is immune to fire and extreme heat in the TV show. One scene when the character is first introduced to us in the bath. Another mid way through her journey with the eggs and at the end when she walks onto the pyre. If you give a character an ability there has to be some reason presented for this. In the show its "blood of the dragon". But we know this is false and only Danys POV. It could be AA from whats hinted in the second season. But we book readers know this can't be the case either. When you add to that people saying that she makes her dragons stronger by her presence and such its clear the show is presenting her in a supernatural light. But I don't know what it could be...

Odd that you should mention her flinging fire. I think I read somewhere that before Martin introduced the dragons his origional plan was that the Targs used a form of pyromantic illusion to imitate being dragons. If we take other examples like the undying, the pyromancers and the fire performer in Qaarth many types of magic origionally believed to be illusion became real. So it wasn't impossible that rather than the dragons Dany developed some pyro abilities which make people think she is AA reborn instead. That might have been where Danys story went instead.

BTW I was being cryptic before and somebody quoted me as if to say it was who I was referring to. I believe AA is Jon Snow due to ADWD. What confused me about this is that Jon picks up a lamp and throws it at the wight; burning his hand due to scolding metal. Dany, picks up a dragon egg which has been heated up in the same manner; but is unaffected. Which is a very strange decision. This is just highly speculative, half serious musing. But, in the story of the origin of the Storms End its mentioned that the Lord fell in love with a goddess of the sea and she chose to become a mortal. We also have the talk of how the seven once walked the world in human form and the Ironborns stories of the drowned god seem to very much personalise him as a human. This is very similar to the way greek pagan gods were described and how being a diety was much more limited in terms of what it meant; to the point of people changing back n forth between the two. In the Illiad for instance, a goddess says that she can turn a man into a god or at least make him immortal. Given that all magic seems to be getting a lot stronger as the series progresses do you think its possible that Daenerys is actually Rhollor or becoming Rhollor? Thats just a wild theory but its if its the case then it would be ironic since at the end of the third book she muses on what it would be like to be a god and that if she were the fire god she would hate to be eternally at war with the great other. As I said before, crackpot theory.

[The Wandering Knight]

There is a saying in the books as well as the series: "When a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin." Many think this refers to the child in question being sane or insane. I have come to believe that it may also mean the child has the gift of dealing with dragons (fireproof)-or not. Also, if they are not gifted, would THAT make them insane? While Visarys was not gifted, he was clearly neurotic. The Mad King Aerys was, well, mad. There is a conversation in AFFC between Aemon Targaryen and Sam Tarly that discusses this very subject, along with Dany specifically, eluding to her possible destiny. If you haven't read it, I won't spoil it for you, but this is the genius of George. If you want to find out......you have to keep reading. ;-)

[total1402]

I've read the passage. Aemon believes that Daenerys is "The Prince that was promised" and when he says that "Lady Melisandre has misread the signs"; he is clearly also conflating TPTWP with AA. I basiclly took it to mean that Aegon believes Dany is AA. However, in ADWD, we discover this is not the case. It makes far more sense for Jon to be AA and a lot more sense for him to be TPTWP as well if hes Rhaegars son. Simply put, Dany being AA or TPTWP or having a special destiny is just a massively bloated red herring which has went on for several books to mislead people that AA isn't the main male protagonist. Which happens in every other high fantasy series that has ever been done and when its revealed is sort of like "Oh, right. So like Wheel of Time?". I just don't think its very clever to go on for whole books about Dany having a special destiny and such; only to suddenly drop Jon as the one in ADWD. Perhaps it was a weak effort by Martin to make that trainwreck of a book interesting and give the illusion that something was actually happening. I am really not surprised that the main male character gets the central role and destiny.