HClegane Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 In Jaime's last chapter in aFfC he has a kind of dream with a woman that he knows, but never says who she is. Who is she? Lady Joanna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Snow Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 who are the possible mothers of jon Snow?If Jaime is in the kingsguard, how can he be the warden of the east? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 who are the possible mothers of jon Snow?If Jaime is in the kingsguard, how can he be the warden of the east?Lyanna almost definitely. Then Ashara which is highly unlikely, then Wylla which would barely make sense thematically. And the Lannister seem to take a lot of liberties with Jaime's Kingsguard status, purely because no one is there to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 who are the possible mothers of jon Snow?The most common names you'll see are Ashara Dayne, Wylla, the fisherman's daughter (who some argue may actually be Wylla), and Lyanna (with Rhaegar being the father in that case). You might want to check out the R+L=J thread pinned to the top of the General forum, if you haven't already.If Jaime is in the kingsguard, how can he be the warden of the east?The Warden of the East title is purely a military one, and it does not entail the possession of any lands. As far as we know, nothing in Jaime's oath prevents him from holding such a title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen_Rubies Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 What's the difference between a king of winter and king in the north?Are there specific qualifications needed to be considered a king of winter or is it just a title for the oldest kings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angeli Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 What's the difference between a king of winter and king in the north?Are there specific qualifications needed to be considered a king of winter or is it just a title for the oldest kings?As far as I can tell, they are one in the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornishman'sWife'sHusband Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 In Jaime's last chapter in aFfC he has a kind of dream with a woman that he knows, but never says who she is. Who is she? Lady Joanna?All signs point to it being Lady Joanna.What's the difference between a king of winter and king in the north?Are there specific qualifications needed to be considered a king of winter or is it just a title for the oldest kings?It's just a stylish title for the King in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bresteil of the North Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Why do lords such as Tywin Lannister or Wyman Manderly marry their cousins? This seems to be slightly frowned upon (barring Targaryens) and does not allow links to be built with the marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButcherCrow Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Why do lords such as Tywin Lannister or Wyman Manderly marry their cousins? This seems to be slightly frowned upon (barring Targaryens) and does not allow links to be built with the marriage.I would suspect these are cousins by marriage, not by blood. Also, we could be talking 2nd, 3rd cousins etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I would suspect these are cousins by marriage, not by blood.No, they're by blood, at least in the Lannister case.To answer the original question, it doesn't appear that cousin incest is particularly frowned upon, except to the extent that it can prevent alliances with other houses. As to why characters such as Tywin or Wyman choose to do this, in Tywin's case it was because he was in love with Joanna. Don't know much about Wyman's case. I didn't even realize he had married his cousin. In fact, I can't find it anywhere on the wiki. Do recall where this was mentioned in the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bresteil of the North Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 No, they're by blood, at least in the Lannister case.To answer the original question, it doesn't appear that cousin incest is particularly frowned upon, except to the extent that it can prevent alliances with other houses. As to why characters such as Tywin or Wyman choose to do this, in Tywin's case it was because he was in love with Joanna. Don't know much about Wyman's case. I didn't even realize he had married his cousin. In fact, I can't find it anywhere on the wiki. Do recall where this was mentioned in the books?Oh no sorry I was getting mixed up - he was trying to marry Lady Hornwood who was a Manderly but there were reasons for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCube Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Don't know much about Wyman's case. I didn't even realize he had married his cousin. In fact, I can't find it anywhere on the wiki. Do recall where this was mentioned in the books?He wanted to marry Lady Hornwood after the death of Lord Hornwood. She was born Donella Manderly and is a cousin if his, although I don't recall if it mentioned to what degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcd52 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 No, they're by blood, at least in the Lannister case.To answer the original question, it doesn't appear that cousin incest is particularly frowned upon, except to the extent that it can prevent alliances with other houses. As to why characters such as Tywin or Wyman choose to do this, in Tywin's case it was because he was in love with Joanna. Don't know much about Wyman's case. I didn't even realize he had married his cousin. In fact, I can't find it anywhere on the wiki. Do recall where this was mentioned in the books?He offered to marry Lady Hornwood - who was a Manderly before marrying Lord Hornwood. Given their respective sizes, she indicated she had no desire to become a Manderly again. She was interested in Ser Rodrick Cassell. He gave Bran a detailed explanation of why that might NOT be in the best interests of his daughter. Must have been in ACOK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpkin_toodles Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Why do lords such as Tywin Lannister or Wyman Manderly marry their cousins? This seems to be slightly frowned upon (barring Targaryens) and does not allow links to be built with the marriage.Cousin marriage occurs in the real world to keep property in the family and prevent the establishment of too many cadet lines. It usually also means that the bride's parents either pay a smaller dowry or none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wighty Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 What's the difference between a king of winter and king in the north?Are there specific qualifications needed to be considered a king of winter or is it just a title for the oldest kings?IMO i think there is something more to the Kings of Winter title than it just being another way to say King in the North. The Stark words are "Winter is Coming" the only words that are a warning and not a boast. The Starks defeated "Winter"(the Others/WW/Wights) to become Kings of Winter following the Long Night. So IMO over time as the truth of things got confused with the storys and as the REAL THREAT was forgotten about the swith came from Kings of Winter to KIngs in the North Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncle Kraken Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 IMO i think there is something more to the Kings of Winter title than it just being another way to say King in the North. The Stark words are "Winter is Coming" the only words that are a warning and not a boast. The Starks defeated "Winter"(the Others/WW/Wights) to become Kings of Winter following the Long Night. So IMO over time as the truth of things got confused with the storys and as the REAL THREAT was forgotten about the swith came from Kings of Winter to KIngs in the NorthAgreed. What always stood out to me was the slight difference in the respective titles. King IN THE North, as opposed to King OF Winter. To me, the former relays a sense of belonging to those whom you rule, while the latter seems to represent a...conquering. Just my $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 IMO i think there is something more to the Kings of Winter title than it just being another way to say King in the North. The Stark words are "Winter is Coming" the only words that are a warning and not a boast. The Starks defeated "Winter"(the Others/WW/Wights) to become Kings of Winter following the Long Night. So IMO over time as the truth of things got confused with the storys and as the REAL THREAT was forgotten about the swith came from Kings of Winter to KIngs in the NorthWell I don't think there is any contradiction in those. Maybe you're right that KOW was kind of celebrating the war they won against Others (let's assume that's correct), but when generations pass, people start calling them the more political KOtN. So in essence, it's the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen_Rubies Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 IMO i think there is something more to the Kings of Winter title than it just being another way to say King in the North. The Stark words are "Winter is Coming" the only words that are a warning and not a boast. The Starks defeated "Winter"(the Others/WW/Wights) to become Kings of Winter following the Long Night. So IMO over time as the truth of things got confused with the storys and as the REAL THREAT was forgotten about the swith came from Kings of Winter to KIngs in the NorthYeah, I keep feeling like there's something more to the king of winter than king in the north.This leads me to the question of whether the others tried to invade more than once because if there was only one long night then there should only be one (or others depending on how many kings lived and died in that period) if that's the reason why one is a KoW rather than KitN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I tried to find an answer to this question (not too exhaustively) and could not. In ACOK (sorry for the lack of cites, I'm re-listening to the book on tape), when the Watch first makes camp at the Fist of the First Men, Ghost refuses to enter the ringfort. Does anyone know or have a theory on why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButcherCrow Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yeah, I keep feeling like there's something more to the king of winter than king in the north.There is defs a diff between King of Winter & King in the North. It could be as simple as KoW being a First Men style & KitN being an Andal invention, as in that's what the Andals called the KoW, like Mance getting called King-Beyond-The-Wall. Or of course it could have serious magic-type connotations :dunno: One thing that's always bugged me is why at the Riverrun feast when Robb is declared KitN, Maege Mormont actually shouts "The King of Winter!". Those Mormonts are freaking old-skool or/and they know some shit.EDITI tried to find an answer to this question (not too exhaustively) and could not. In ACOK (sorry for the lack of cites, I'm re-listening to the book on tape), when the Watch first makes camp at the Fist of the First Men, Ghost refuses to enter the ringfort. Does anyone know or have a theory on why?Best guess, the FM threw down some magical warding and Ghost is not a fan. Don't think you'll get a definitive on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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