What was worse?

[shiola]

I think what the Targaryens did was worse than what the Lannisters did. But both were obviously horrible.

[locke and key]

Well, I think Aerys wasn`t mad by choice...and this was someone`s choice. There`s great difference between two cases. It was just like Robert wanted Dany`s unborn child dead. He was afraid of possibility not the real threat. And that is cowardice.

so if dany's child had been born and led the dothraki across the sea to attack westeros, he'd suddenly not be afraid. and also aerys did have a choice to be mad he wasn't mentally dis-abled or anything he just decided that everyone was out to get him and therefore, boiling his subjects alive was brilliant

[Howling Mad]

Both acts were cruel, hideous, and unnecessary.

[Mladen]

so if dany's child had been born and led the dothraki across the sea to attack westeros, he'd suddenly not be afraid. and also aerys did have a choice to be mad he wasn't mentally dis-abled or anything he just decided that everyone was out to get him and therefore, boiling his subjects alive was brilliant

He was mentally disabled. He was pathologically afraid, suspicious...Aerys was mad indeed.

[locke and key]

He was mentally disabled. He was pathologically afraid, suspicious...Aerys was mad indeed.

he was paranoid but not out of any kind of genetic condition

[Ivashanko]

Killing Aegon and Rhaenys in that way is horrific... I still can`t believe lannisters were pardoned for this. And even worse, that those who actually did it, Lorch and Clegane were not punished too. OK, I get you won`t punish Tywin, but these two, there is no excuse for that.

Why wouldn't they be? As long as the Targs survive they are a threat to the peace and stability of Westeros, as each one is a pretender to the throne. And an alliance with the Lanns is very valuable to a newly-crowned, vulnerable King. A war with the Lanns might have turned into a conflict were those loyal to the Targs (Dorne, the Reach) try and place one of the survivors back on the throne.

[Mladen]

he was paranoid but not out of any kind of genetic condition

Psychological diseases are not genetically conditioned...Aerys was menatlly ill and everything he did was consequence of that.

[Fetch me a block]

Well, I think Aerys wasn`t mad by choice...and this was someone`s choice. There`s great difference between two cases. It was just like Robert wanted Dany`s unborn child dead. He was afraid of possibility not the real threat. And that is cowardice.

You may have thought the same if in a position to rule. Bare in mind also that Robert hates Targaryens, and for good reason.

[Mladen]

You may have thought the same if in a position to rule. Bare in mind also that Robert hates Targaryens, and for good reason.

Robb hated Jaime, why didn`t he kill him? And he has also a good reason to hate Jaime...Simply, you sometimes have to take highroad...

[Ivashanko]

Psychological diseases are not genetically conditioned...Aerys was menatlly ill and everything he did was consequence of that.

This is not necessarily true. People who were born to depressed parents are more likely to be depressed, people born to parents with anger issues are more likely to have those issues themselves, etc, even if the children were adopted at birth.

[Tony Soprano]

What Aerys did was worse. Perhaps not by much, bot nonetheless. I understand why he wanted to imprison Brandon. Someone threatening the life of the Prince was just asking to be thrown into a dungeon. But he didn't deserve what they did to him. Nor did Rickard. He was completely innocent. He didn't have anything to do with Brandon's outburst, but was still called to answer for his son's treason. He burned the father, and watched the son choke himself to death. For what? For his own amusement.

I'm not saying what Tywin's men did to the Targaryens was right, but something had to be done. They had to be dealt with, one way or another. An alternative to what happened would be sending them into exile, but who can guarantee that they won't return in 20 years, and tear the Realm apart like the Blackfyres did?

[Mladen]

This is not necessarily true. People who were born to depressed parents are more likely to be depressed, people born to parents with anger issues are more likely to have those issues themselves, etc, even if the children were adopted at birth.

Not necessarily, but generally. Aerys was crazy, there`s no doubt in that. If he was normal, who knows what would have happened?

I'm not saying what Tywin's men did to the Targaryens was right, but something had to be done. They had to be dealt with, one way or another. An alternative to what happened would be sending them into exile, but who can guarantee that they won't return in 20 years, and tear the Realm apart like the Blackfyres did?

Something had to be done, yes, but not that. Both of those kids could have been stripped of all power and be guarded in Red Keep. Exile isn`t the only solution.

[Tony Soprano]

Something had to be done, yes, but not that. Both of those kids could have been stripped of all power and be guarded in Red Keep. Exile isn`t the only solution.

And it would still result in a civil war eventually. A lot of people didn't like Robert when he took the Iron Throne. Those people would have used the children to further their own ambitions, starting a war under the guise of returning the Targaryens to the throne.

[Mladen]

And it would still result in a civil war eventually. A lot of people didn't like Robert when he took the Iron Throne. Those people would have used the children to further their own ambitions, starting a war under the guise of returning the Targaryens to the throne.

And murderings of those kids eventually led to civil war. When Lannisters killed them and Robert pardoned them that created strife between Lannisters and Starks, strife that will lead to War of 5 Kings. So, Robert perhaps thought he averted the course of future, but at the end, civil war happened.

[Tony Soprano]

And murderings of those kids eventually led to civil war. When Lannisters killed them and Robert pardoned them that created strife between Lannisters and Starks, strife that will lead to War of 5 Kings. So, Robert perhaps thought he averted the course of future, but at the end, civil war happened.

There were lots of reasons for Stark/Lannister animosity, but the killing of Targaryens wasn't one.

Ned din't think killing the kids was " honorable " , but he didn't shed any tears, did he? Robb didn't care at all. Neither did Cat, or anyone else.

The only ones that cared about the deaths of Aegon and Rhaenys were the Dornish. And even if they were locked up, Dorne would be the first to raise it's banners to free them.

[Mladen]

There were lots of reasons for Stark/Lannister animosity, but the killing of Targaryens wasn't one.

Ned din't think killing the kids was " honorable " , but he didn't shed any tears, did he? Robb didn't care at all. Neither did Cat, or anyone else.

The only ones that cared about the deaths of Aegon and Rhaenys were the Dornish. And even if they were locked up, Dorne would be the first to raise it's banners to free them.

Ned demanded punishments, didn`t he? He argued with Robert about it. The strife between Lannisters and Starks started when Tywin didn`t aid Robert at Trident, but was even bigger when Ned demanded Jaime to take black.

[Ivashanko]

Ned demanded punishments, didn`t he? He argued with Robert about it. The strife between Lannisters and Starks started when Tywin didn`t aid Robert at Trident, but was even bigger when Ned demanded Jaime to take black.

Ned demanded punishment, but Ned didn't start the Civil War. Neither did Robert. Hell, Tywin and Jamie didn't either. It was Joffery that did. And it was over political matters that had nothing to do with the children's deaths.

Regardless of what happens to the kids, punishing the Lannisters makes civil war inevitable.

[Tony Soprano]

Ned demanded punishments, didn`t he? He argued with Robert about it. The strife between Lannisters and Starks started when Tywin didn`t aid Robert at Trident, but was even bigger when Ned demanded Jaime to take black.

And that was it. Ned didn't like Jaime and didn't trust Tywin. But that was it. The strife didn't escalate beyond that point. Like I said, Robb didn't even care about it. The issues that House Stark had with the Lannisters were actually Ned's issues only. When he died, so did his disapproval for Tywin's actions. No one ever spoke up about it afterwards.

[lojzelote]

Well, it depends ...

Out of the Starks, the only one I truly pity is Rickard, whose end was truly horrible. Plus, he was probably the one who didn't do anything to bring it upon himself. Brandon acted like a total idiot who did everything in his power to enrage the King, so I have far less sympathy for him. Lyanna, I believe, wasn't kidnapped, but eloped with Rhaegar on her own free will. While it touched the honour of House Stark, it was hardly an atrocity.

Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon were all innocent and their deaths were just heinous (I don't buy that the Young Griff is the real deal.) I cannot possibly imagine what psychical pain Elia must have gone through, when the Mountain was raping her with the brains of her baby boy still on him, + knowing that Rhaenys was out there, probably meeting the same fate. As Tywin himself recognized, Elia's and Rhaenys' killings were unneccessarily brutal. Aegon had it "better" because he likely didn't understand what was going on and it took only one smash for him to die.

IMO, Rickard suffered the most physically. Elia and Brandon both went through great deal of physical as well as psychical pain, but I dare to say that Elia suffered more. Rhaenys didn't had it easy either - she must have already known that something really bad is happening, aside from the fact she was stabbed half a hundred times. Ouch. Lyanna and Aegon, in comparison to the others, didn't suffer all that much; I think it's probable that Lyanna wasn't for the longest time told what befallen her father and brother (and Rhaegar), so she wouldn't miscarry.

Overall, Rickard had the grizzliest death, but he is followed by Elia as a close second. Furthermore, Elia's and her children' deeds weren't the cause of their deaths, as opposed to Rickard's children's ... so, in my view, Elia and her innocent babes "win" this one.

[Mladen]

Ned demanded punishment, but Ned didn't start the Civil War. Neither did Robert. Hell, Tywin and Jamie didn't either. It was Joffery that did. And it was over political matters that had nothing to do with the children's deaths.

Regardless of what happens to the kids, punishing the Lannisters makes civil war inevitable.

Punishing Lannisters yes, but punishing Clegane and Lorch? If Robert gave justice to Martells by beheading Clegane and Lorch, things would turn out much more different. But no, Robert continued where Aerys finished.