The Others Take Ya Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 So here's an oft repeated theory that Missandei is a faceless man, but I thought my favorite crackpot theory could use some investigation so we can see if the pieces of the pot fit together. :-) This is a real long post, but as you can tell, I like quotes, and I think I used every mention I could find to make as complete a compilation as possible.If you're pressed for time, here's what I consider my top 3 you can skip to and then there's a FAQ at the very bottom:#10 Missandei knows Quentyn's skinless face is smiling with his lips burnt off (near the end after "Late edits/additional text")#4 Missandei sneaks up on Ser always-on-the-alert-kingsguard Barristan#7 Missandei hears the Astapori scratching desperately - from half a mile away.1) The assumption is she's a little girl, but Arya thought the Waif was a little girl too and she was 36. We know that CotF and Naathi (hey, Naathi... Braavosi... hm.) are rumored to share a common ancestry. Perhaps Missandei isn't the age she's saying she is.Arya and the waif:The waif nodded. Arya nodded back, and in her best Braavosi said, “How many years have you?”The waif showed ten fingers. Then ten again, and yet again. Then six. Her face remained as smooth as still water. She can’t be six-and-thirty, Arya thought. She’s a little girl. “You’re lying,” she said. The waif shook her head and showed her once again: ten and ten and ten and six. She said the words for six-and-thirty, and made Arya say them too.I know the KM tells her her appearance is because of poisons, but maybe that's just a half truth and she's actually Naathi as well. At this point Arya isn't good at the lying game yet. (edit: And neither was I when I first wrote this paragraph - right before you read #9 you'll see a more complete analysis of this conversation)SoS Naathi people as explained to Dany:Dany had grown very fond of Missandei. The little scribe with the big golden eyes was wise beyond her years. She is brave as well. She had to be, to survive the life she’s lived. One day she hoped to see this fabled isle of Naath. Missandei said the Peaceful People made music instead of war. They did not kill, not even animals; they ate only fruit and never flesh. The butterfly spirits sacred to their Lord of Harmony protected their isle against those who would do them harm. Many conquerors had sailed on Naath to blood their swords, only to sicken and die. The butterflies do not help them when the slave ships come raiding, though. “I am going to take you home one day, Missandei,” Dany promised. If I had made the same promise to Jorah, would he still have sold me? “I swear it.”“This one is content to stay with you, Your Grace. Naath will be there, always. You are good to this - to me.”golden eyes, wise beyond her years - CotF had golden eyes and look like Childrenmade music - the Children sing the songs of the earththe conquered, but would sicken and die - I wonder if Missandei ever explained HOW the soldiers got sickened. Tears of Lys?to this - to me - slip up! actively corrects herself!2) Her brother who died in Mereen, perhaps he wasn't her brother per se, but her partner in delivering the gift among the slaves at Astapor. I think he was killed by the harpy, but his role as a slave was either a cover or perhaps she's taken over the role of what used to be a real 11 year old girl who went through hell as a young slave.ADoD, Dany, after death of M's brother:“He taught me how to climb a tree when we were little. He could catch fish with his hands. Once I found him sleeping in our garden with a hundred butterflies crawling over him. He looked so beautiful that morning, this one … I mean, I loved him.”“As he loved you.” Dany stroked the girl’s hair. “Say the word, my sweet, and I will send you from this awful place. I will find a ship somehow and send you home. To Naath.”“I would sooner stay with you. On Naath I’d be afraid. What if the slavers came again? I feel safe when I’m with you.”Slip up number two with Dany. If it isn't a big deal to say "this one" why is she correcting herself?Now you can't keep tabs on the queen if she sends you home. Also, with her brother dead you would not think feeling safe with Dany is a good reason for staying. Maybe it was the best excuse she could come up with on short notice, or maybe this was what the FM heard from an 11 year old girl slave who wanted to die. **edit aug 15 2015: If we take the time it takes to train an unsullied soldier into account against the age Missandei is claiming she is it literally does not add correctly. She claims to have 3 brothers, 2 fully trained and also has memories of Naath with them when unsullied training takes a minimum of 9 years and she's 10. How could she be climbing trees and catching fish at 1 year old at the most, minus time for her to be captured and shipped to Astapor. She can't have memories of being a child playing with at least 2 of 3 brothers fully trained with how long the training takes. The math on the lenght of that training according to what we're told in the book works out to this: unsullied start training at 5 years of age, Dany sees soldiers for sale ranging from 14 to 20 in the ranks. (ACOK when first inspecting them) That's a minimum of 9 years training and her brothers are all older then her because at least one of them is full unsullied, a commander even. In order for her to be older then 10, but still be able to plausibly have the memories she claims she does, she would have to have injested some sort of no-growth age-arresting potion, like the waif must have been exposed to in her daily duties managing the FM cocktails of poisons. Or she's picking them up from the dead girl's face she's wearing. ;)**end edit Aug 18 2015**3) Missandei is one of the few who express their objection of the upcoming marriage to Dany. Perhaps because she knows more then she lets on and its a trap.ADoD, Missandei talking with Dany before the wedding:When he was gone, Missandei brought the queen a simple meal of goat cheese and olives, with raisins for a sweet. “Your Grace needs more than wine to break her fast. You are such a tiny thing, and you will surely need yourstrength today.”That made Daenerys laugh, coming from a girl so small. She relied so much on the little scribe that she oft forgotthat Missandei had only turned eleven. They shared the food together on her terrace. As Dany nibbled on an olive, the Naathi girl gazed at her with eyes like molten gold and said, “It is not too late to tell them that you have decided not to wed.”It is, though, the queen thought, sadly. “Hizdahr’s blood is ancient and noble. Our joining will join my freedmen to his people. When we become as one, so will our city.” “Your Grace does not love the noble Hizdahr. This one thinks you would sooner have another for your husband.”Maybe she forgets she's 11 because she's NOT! And Dany can't see golden eyes is trying to warn you off! Her serious gaze is set to ON beware! lol4) Barristan, who expounds earlier in his POV's about kingsguard needing to be always on the alert, gets snuck up on by Missandei:Barristan about how a kingsguard needs to be on their toes:But the battle was never truly done for a knight of the Kingsguard. Threats came from everywhere and nowhere, at any time of day or night. No trumpets announced the foe: vassals, servants, friends, brothers, sons, even wives, any of them might have knives concealed beneath their cloaks and murder hidden in their hearts. For every hour of fighting, a Kingsguard knight spent ten thousand hours watching, waiting, standing silent in the shadows. King Hizdahr’s pit fighters were already growing bored and restive with their new duties, and bored men were lax, slow to react.So he's pretty critical of the pit fighters but...Barristan being snuck up on:“She might be flying home,” he told himself, aloud. “No,” murmured a soft voice behind him. “She would not do that, ser. She would not go home without us.”Ser Barristan turned. “Missandei. Child. How long have you been standing there?”Selmy, you got owned.5) He can't read Missandei real feelings well, which, for someone who is supposed to be on top of how people are behaving about their King/Queen, seems remarkable.Barristan's conversation with Missandei:“This one understands.” Missandei turned as if to go, then paused a moment and said, “It is said that the Yunkai’i have ringed the city all about with scorpions, to loose iron bolts into the sky should Drogon return.”Ser Barristan had heard that too. “It is no simple thing to slay a dragon in the sky. In Westeros, many tried to bring down Aegon and his sisters. None succeeded.”Missandei nodded. It was hard to tell if she was reassured. “Do you think that they will find her, ser? The grasslands are so vast, and dragons leave no tracks across the sky.”“Aggo and Rakharo are blood of her blood … and who knows the Dothraki sea better than Dothraki?” Hesqueezed her shoulder. “They will find her if she can be found.” If she still lives. There were other khals who prowled the grass, horselords with khalasars whose riders numbered in the tens of thousands. But the girl did not need to hear that. “You love her well, I know. I swear, I shall keepher safe.”The words seemed to give the girl some comfort.First of all there's the "this one" again. This time, with Barristan, she doesn't correct herself, even though in Dany's presence she corrects herself twice. Is she more concerned about putting up an act for Dany then she is for Barristan? Maybe Barristan isn't the only one who realizes he's not made for subterfuge. **aug 15th 2015 clarification:As I mentioned ages ago in posts - I finally ran the numbers and comparison on how often she slips up, and most importantly - WHEN she decides to slip up vs not. my conclusion is, she doesn't feel the need to act in front of unperceptive Barristan: Basically, she's not correcting herself in front of Barristan, and even now only halfheartedly corrects herself in front of Dany. She only corrects herself to say "I" 2 times in ADWD, where in ASOS it's almost always "I" or correcting herself to "I". Barristan, who she knows isn't as perceptive as Dany and he affirms this in his own POV, is someone she doesn't work as hard at maintaining her cover with. Hence every single time it's "this one" in his presence and he has difficulty reading her emotions when he tries to give her assurances Dany is still alive.Numbers wise in ASOS the vast majority of time she corrects herself. In ADWD, people are used to her, she only corrects herself twice, and the other 11 times she refers to herself in conversation it's "this one" again. The only two times she corrects herself in ADWD to "I" is in front of Dany.**end aug 2015 edit**Second, Barristan THINKS that she's telling him about the scorpions because she's worried, but if she's a FM probably she's just disseminating information to those that need to know again, that and trying to get information from him. She doesn't care about being reassured. And possibly, doesn't care about putting up an act in front of him as much as she does Dany.6) People see her looking scrolls, even when she has absolutely nothing to do. Why is she looking through all that stuff? No one asks her why:ADoD: Dany sees Missandei looking at scrolls after coming back from helping plague victims:When Daenerys returned to her pyramid, sore of limb and sick of heart, she found Missandei reading some old scroll whilst Irri and Jhiqui argued about Rakharo.ADoD: Missandei looking at scrolls while Dany's away:Afterward, back at the apex of the pyramid, Ser Barristan found Missandei amongst piles of scrolls and books, reading. “Stay here tonight, child,” he told her. “Whatever happens, whatever you see or hear, do not leave the queen’s chambers.”“This one hears,” the girl said. “If she may ask—”“Best not.”Also by this point, she has no duties at all, Dany's gone. The amount of items she's going over has turned into piles now that she has time and no one to ask any questions about it.Only Missandei remained, a forlorn little ghost haunting the queen’s chambers at the apex of the pyramid.Foreshadowing!?! XD7) Missandei seems to hear more then most people, and seems to be trying to tell Dany in so many words how desperate the slaves are without giving away she's a spy:At her command, Missandei stripped off her clothes and climbed in after her. “This one heard the Astapori scratching at the walls last night,” the little scribe said as she was washing Dany’s back.Irri and Jhiqui exchanged a look. “No one was scratching,” said Jhiqui. “Scratching … how could they scratch?”“With their hands,” said Missandei. “The bricks are old and crumbling. They are trying to claw their way into the city.”“This would take them many years,” said Irri. “The walls are very thick. This is known.”“It is known,” agreed Jhiqui.“I dream of them as well.” Dany took Missandei’s hand.“The camp is a good half-mile from the city, my sweetling. No one was scratching at the walls.”“Your Grace knows best,” said Missandei.DOES her Grace know best? REALLY??? Naaaaaahhhh Dany's dumb as a post about it. Dream smeam. It did not occur to her that Missandei might have left the pyramid and gone to check out what was happening closer to the wall.Maybe Missandei even gave the gift. And even if she didn't, we know about how Arya's being trained to use all her senses. I think Dany could die if she doesn't heed the warnings about how the slaves are suffering.This whole section is creepy. It reminds me of what happened in the gas chambers of Auchwitz.***edit June 14th: previously unnoticed detail***Also Missandei specifically mentions the slaves scratching are Astapori. How could she know what city the scratchers were from unless she had seen it or heard their conversations to find out. If Missandei is tasked with delivering the gift in Astapor then its likely she would leave the pyramid from time to time to give the gift to them.***end edit***Another hint about how sensitive her hearing is from the same chapter:Daario’s announcement had sparked an uproar. Reznak was wailing, the Shavepate was muttering darkly, her bloodriders were swearing vengeance. Strong Belwas thumped his scarred belly with his fist and swore to eat Brown Ben’s heart with plums and onions. “Please,” Dany said, but only Missandei seemed to hear. The queen got to her feet. “Be quiet! I have heard enough.”8) Finally, I think the very first conversation with Dany may have held a clue, though it could be easily said that it is probably a common phrase.SoS:“I can give you freedom, but not safety,” Dany warned. “I have a world to cross and wars to fight. You may go hungry. You may grow sick. You may be killed.”“Valar morghulis,” said Missandei, in High Valyrian.So taking this cracked pot out to its pulverized end, my thought is that she is Izembaro, the FM that the KM is sending Arya to. She had her previous partner (or partners?) killed and she's about to pick up a new apprentice. As a Braavosi based organization, a culture that doesn't even joke around when it comes to dragons, it seems only natural they would keep tabs on them and I would wonder why they wouldn't have a Faceless Man on the ground with Dany by now. On top of that, these dragons and dragon ruler don't have the same attitude towards slavery that the KM told Arya the Valyrians did, but if Dany starts allying herself with the slavers instead of actively trying to find a way to stop it, they would be in place to kill her right away and kill her dragons once they figure out how to do it.The KM also said there aren't many female FM, it makes sense that he would send her to apprentice with one of the few female FM they have. I just can't see how Jaquen would be able to give Arya "the talk" once she "flowered". lol ick. No. Just no.Just as supporting info, I also came across this, Grey Worm's description of the nameless goddess. Makes me wonder if this is their version of the Many Faced God.“Worship,” Grey Worm said, “this one and his brothers beg your leave to bathe in the salt sea when our work here is done, that we might be purified according to the laws of our great goddess.”The queen had not known that the eunuchs had a goddess of their own. “Who is this goddess? One of thegods of Ghis?”Grey Worm looked troubled. “The goddess is called by many names. She is the Lady of Spears, the Bride of Battle, the Mother of Hosts, but her true name belongs only to these poor ones who have burned their manhoods upon her altar. We may not speak of her to others. This one begs your forgiveness.”***edit June 14th: new evidence***I've noticed two other passages in Arya chapters in AFFC that may indicate who this Goddess is. First note that from how Grey Worm words it, their belief is monotheistic. Second, when Arya enters the HoB&W, she sees a statue of an infant with a sword. (AFFC Arya I) later on she notes that soldiers prefer Bakkalon, the pale child (AFFC Arya II) when they come to the HoB&W. Finally Grey Worm calls her a Goddess. It seems quite likely that the God of death for the unsullied of Astapor may be the Goddess that Arya knows as Bakkalon, and that may be her true name or the name they give her when she specifically represents the aspect of death for them. (much as how God the father, Jesus the son, and the holy ghost are the three aspects of God in the Christian faith)This would be a good reason for the HoB&W to specifically send a young female child to the ranks of the slave soldiers to give them the opportunity to get the gift of death. In this form she likely resembles the goddess they pray to. (Although "infant" is debatable.)***end edit***This also reminds me of when the KM asks Arya if she is sure she wants to be one of them because of the reference to private parts:He is trying to scare me away, Arya thought, the way he did with the worm. “I don’t care about that.”“You should. Stay, and the Many-Faced God will take your ears, your nose, your tongue. He will take your sad grey eyes that have seen so much. He will take your hands, your feet, your arms and legs, your private parts. He will take your hopes and dreams, your loves and hates. Those who enter His service must give up all that makes them who they are. Can you do that?”So does this mean FM go as far as becoming unsullied in order to get the job done? Sure sounds like it.***June 15th edit***After Arya plays the lying game with the waif and finds out she's 36 and not a child, Arya asks the Kindly Man if she'll end up that way.AFFC Arya II:Arya bit her lip. “Will I be like her?”“No,” he said, “not unless you wish it. It is the poisons that have made her as you see her.”Poisons. She understood then. Every evening after prayer the waif emptied a stone flagon into the waters of the black pool.We've seen many types of poisons and not just the killer ones that are in the pool. We've seen them use a blinding poison to make acolytes loose their sight, so its not a big departure to think Arya concluded a bit too quickly that it was specifically the poisons in the pool that made the waif that way. In actuality, as their poisons teacher, she's had to continually expose herself to a poisons cocktail. A poison to prevent growth is probably just one of them. This proves that the conversation about the waif's stepmother poisoning her was the unexplained lie in a later lying game they had about the waif's history.***end edit***So could the Goddess that Grey Worm cannot name to Dany be the Unsullied's version of the Many Faced God? And could Missandei be one of the Angels of death from the HoB&W that walks alongside them to take them away when their suffering is too great? Do you think this theory warrants a crackpot rating of 1 (just a hairline crack) or 10 (this pot is a humpty dumpty role model) and why?LATE EDITS/ADDITIONAL TEXT: These are other pieces of text I found to support this theory as the thread progressed which are posted farther down the thread. I'm adding them to the OP so that everything is in one place in case you don't want to read everything to see it.9) Missandei helps Dany ask all the right questions in her brand new court:from ASoS:“Your Worship, those sly rogues betrayed your trust. It was revealed that they were scheming to restore the Good Masters to power and the people to chains. Great Cleon exposed their plots and hacked their heads off with a cleaver, and the grateful folk of Astapor have crowned him for his valor.”“Noble Ghael,” said Missandei, in the dialect of Astapor, “is this the same Cleon once owned by Grazdan mo Ullhor?”Her voice was guileless, yet the question plainly made the envoy anxious. “The same,” he admitted. “A great man.”Missandei leaned close to Dany. “He was a butcher in Grazdan’s kitchen,” the girl whispered in her ear. “It was said he could slaughter a pig faster than any man in Astapor.”I have given Astapor a butcher king. Dany felt ill, but she knew she must not let the envoy see it.Gee, the 11 year old was sure up on the gossip of who was slaughtering who and who owned who wasn't she? And the envoy sure didn't like Missandei asking that question. lol I'll say it again, the best Master of Whisperers is the one you don't even know you have!10) Missandei helps Quentyn into death, and makes an interesting observation:Missandei sat at the bedside. She had been with the prince night and day, tending to such needs as he could express, giving him water and milk of the poppy when he was strong enough to drink, listening to the few tortured words he gasped out from time to time, reading to him when he fell quiet, sleeping in her chair beside him. Ser Barristan had asked some of the queen’s cupbearers to help, but the sight of the burned man was too much for even the boldest of them. And the Blue Graces had never come, though he’d sent for them four times. Perhaps the last of them had been carried off by the pale mare by now.The tiny Naathi scribe looked up at his approach.“Honored ser. The prince is beyond pain now. His Dornish gods have taken him home. See? He smiles.”(Barristan thinks)How can you tell? He has no lips.Well this passage is interesting. Now not only is the 11 year old a genius scribe she's:Taking the place of a maester on a death bed, properly administering a potion of milk of the poppy.Not scared of horrific injuries.Strong enough to sit with someone dying and give them comfort in their last moments basically acting just like an "angel of death" as the Kindly man has described it to Arya in the HoB&W.Able to notice details about dead bodies Barristan can't, even though he's been killing for years and she's supposed to be a little girl. Like that the guy is smiling with no lips. Now what type of people would know what the musculature of face looks like when its smiling when there are no lips left? Maybe people who cut off faces so they can use them later! trololololIf she isn't an "angel of death" for the faceless men, personally, I'll be really surprised!!! XDThanks King's Ruin for point #1111) Missendei knows twelve languages expertly by the time Dany gets her when she's 10. Think about that for a second.Missandei is only trained as a scribe because she was found to have a gift for languages. How unlikely is it that an enslaved girl that used to live on an island who is old enough to remember living on said island by the time she is kidnapped had time to learn and be totally proficient at 12 languages? For instance, say she was enslaved at 4. By 10, that's only 6 years to become proficient at all of them.It is extremely unlikely that as an infant on an isolated island south of Valyria which is an area sailors avoid, that she would be exposed to more then 2 or 3 languages in addition to her mother tongue. Its far more likely she only learned her mother tongue.Because she was only trained as a scribe after they found out she had a talent for languages, how exactly did the girl pick all 12 of them up expertly while she was busy being a slave? It's not like slaves are given a bunch of free time and then fed, sheltered and housed for free. She would have been busy at whatever child labour they forced her on. Not an opportune time to pick up languages.If she picked up 2 or 3 others in the course of her work (from WHO other child laborers???) then she still would have had to have found the time amongst her increasing studies as a scribe and slave duties to learn the other 9 or 10 of them. Yes she could read them, but reading is not the same as speaking a language, and where would she have gotten all the materials to learn all the ins and out of pronunciation, and get them right every time? There is no way should could have picked up expert status in every language just by reading books alone in a 5 to 6 year time span. Expert status requires practice and speaking, not just reading.I will admit it seems likely that she could practice amongst the different slaves, but it seems like the slaves mostly speak Astapori's dialect. This is especially strange because the slaves would have been taken and started their training early as young boys. Therefore among the Astapori, there may be less need to speak in other languages as the young boys would have been forced early on to pick up the language - or they would have been killed.FAQ:To save us all some time, here are links to some frequently asked questions that were answered in different parts of this thread so you can just click to your relevant answerIts a choose your own adventure thread!!! :D)Is there a plausible argument that the FM are interested in Dany & the Dragons? Are they hostile, supportive or ambivalent to her? (answered in 1st and 2nd questions)How did Missandei know Dany was going to come to Astapor and that she would have to go there to infiltrate herself with Dany and her people? She couldn't have know that Dany would want her as a gift in the deal for the Unsullied. (read the 6th and the 9th responses)Correcting herself when she uses "this one", reading a lot, and being stealthy enough to surprise Barristan seems like weak evidence when it could be perfectly innocent behavior from a child genius from an island with naturally stealthy people. How do you justify this? (read 4th, 5th and 6th blurbs - starts at box with "2. I believe Missandei...")What if Missandei is a CotF and not a FM? Why do you think there is a possible link to the CotF because Missandei is Naathi? (answered in 2nd question)EDIT LOG:edit: clarificationJune 14th:Added evidence blubs on Bakkalon the pale child, questioning how she "heard" Astapori,Underlined main evidence of #7.Added FAQ section at very end.Added the "if you're pressed for time/top 3" section at top.Sectioned better.Updated one point of #10 to make the link explicit to the Kindly Man's angel of death story.June 15th:Added evidence blurb on "only if you choose it" discussion on how the poisons have changed the waif to look young.Added a sentence to clarify #1 with new info.July 5th:Added point #11 on languages as new evidence.bolded the numbers on each point of evidenceAugust 18th 2015:Adding clarification on Missandei's use of I and this one in her conversations with specific individuals.Adding information on Missandei's age in comparison to the time it took to train her brothers to be unsullied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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