Would Stannis do it?

[Woftis]

Stannis won't turn on Jon because of any genetics.

Now if Jon declared himself king of anything south of the wall, then that becomes a different matter. Stannis hasn't any history of attacking people because of their descendent; just if they try to usurp his authority.

I think the same can be said for north of the wall judging by his reaction to Robb.

[King of Winters]

Agreed, so why should Westeros back either? As for Dany, I stand by my previous points and believe in the right of conquest. Therefore, I think if she wants the throne, she will have to take it.

From Dany's POV the Iron Throne is hers by right and she'll try and reclaim it for her and her family by conquest

[Woftis]

From Dany's POV the Iron Throne is hers by right and she'll try and reclaim it for her and her family by conquest

Agreed on that point, well.... if she ever leaves Meereen haha....

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Why wouldn't it end well for stannis? He holds the ground and the last time northmen tried to turn on him it didnt end well at all for them.

His stupid son remained oblivious. "There are no chairs," the oaf observed. One of the ravens screamed inside its cage.

"Only mine." King Stannis sat in it. "It is no Iron Throne, but here and now it suits." A dozen men had filed through the tower door, led by the knight of the moths and the big man in the silvered breastplate. "You are dead men, understand that," the king went on. "Only the manner of your dying remains to be determined. You would be well advised not to waste my time with denials. Confess, and you shall have the same swift end that the Young Wolf gave Lord Rickard. Lie, and you will burn. Choose."

"I choose this." One of the grandsons seized his sword hilt, and made to draw it.

That proved to be a poor choice. The grandson's blade had not even cleared his scabbard before two of the king's knights were on him. It ended with his forearm flopping in the dirt and blood spurting from his stump, and one of his brothers stumbling for the stairs, clutching a belly wound. He staggered up six steps before he fell, and came crashing back down to the floor.

That being said i dont see it coming to violence, the bromance is too strong.

Yes but the northmen are currently somewhat divided in their interests. If Jon declares himself King, they'll all rally to his cause and abandon Stannis. Stannis is awesome, but he can't beat the northmen in the North in winter, especially not when he is so vastly outnumbered.

[King of Winters]

Yes but the northmen are currently somewhat divided in their interests. If Jon declares himself King, they'll all rally to his cause and abandon Stannis. Stannis is awesome, but he can't beat the northmen in the North in winter, especially not when he is so vastly outnumbered.

Jon doesn't have to declare first. The Northern lords could declare for for him first and go and join him at the Wall and show him Robb's will if they've had it all along and possibly persuade Jon to join them and become King in the North

[Woftis]

Jon doesn't have to declare first. The Northern lords could declare for for him first and go and join him at the Wall and show him Robb's will if they've had it all along and possibly persuade Jon to join them and become King in the North

:agree: We've not seen much of the will since it was penned and it's bound to resurface sooner or later although I think it unlikely he'll try and declare for the IT - just King of the North.

[E-Ro]

Yes but the northmen are currently somewhat divided in their interests. If Jon declares himself King, they'll all rally to his cause and abandon Stannis. Stannis is awesome, but he can't beat the northmen in the North in winter, especially not when he is so vastly outnumbered.

If stannis takes WF the northmen are going to have one hell of a time getting him out, hes held castles while low on food before. All he has to do is await his 20k sellswords, the northmen cant fight that, as well attacking stannis would be the height of stupidity, they would be better off assassinating him. Hes to dangerous to openly fight. And if the northmen do assassinate him, then I may as well root for the tyrells as that would make the northmen no different then freys/boltons/ and lannisters.

[Woftis]

If stannis takes WF the northmen are going to have one hell of a time getting him out, hes held castles while low on food before. All he has to do is await his 20k sellswords, the northmen cant fight that, as well attacking stannis would be the height of stupidity, they would be better off assassinating him. Hes to dangerous to openly fight. And if the northmen do assassinate him, then I may as well root for the tyrells as that would make the northmen no different then freys/boltons/ and lannisters.

....and Baratheons of course after what happened to Renly.

[Artos Stark]

Yes but the northmen are currently somewhat divided in their interests. If Jon declares himself King, they'll all rally to his cause and abandon Stannis. Stannis is awesome, but he can't beat the northmen in the North in winter, especially not when he is so vastly outnumbered.

This. Stannis wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of defeated the united Northmen in the North. He is out manned and doesn't know how to survive the winter. He would be dead before he could say King in the North.

[E-Ro]

....and Baratheons of course after what happened to Renly.

Renly was a traitor, he got what was coming to him, Stannis told renly he would attack at dawn and true to his word, he did.

[Woftis]

This. Stannis wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of defeated the united Northmen in the North. He is out manned and doesn't know how to survive the winter. He would be dead before he could say King in the North.

Although you do have to prepare for the possibility of Stannis' sellswords turning up.

[Woftis]

Renly was a traitor, he got what was coming to him, Stannis told renly he would attack at dawn and true to his word, he did.

The same could be said of Robb (although admittedly there is the breach of guest rules to take in to account)

[E-Ro]

The same could be said of Robb (although admittedly there is the breach of guest rules to take in to account)

Thats different, robb was not at war with the freys, they were his vassals, it was not their place to demand a marriage to him or any of his bannermen.

[E-Ro]

Also, i think its clear the north does not have 20k men sitting around somewhere doing nothing, that would be rather random, right? Perhaps they could muster up 15k and that's being EXTREMELY generous.

[Artos Stark]

Stannis isn't going to take WF without the Northmen to help him. He has no knowledge of the castle or how to attack it. Also he isn't going to take Winterfell when outnumbered, he does only have 1,000 men. Once Winterfell is taken, the united Northern force and Stannis will all be held up in WF and he and his men would have no chance of defeating him.

Also lets not forget that this is much different than surviving Storms End, at Storms End Davos was able to sail in an bring fish. That is simply not an option here as none of these Southerners have any clue how to survive a norther winter, as has been proven. They would die off extremely fast. I know there is a ton of Stannis fanatics here but it is simply not realistic that he fight off the Northmen with the men that he has.

As for the 20,000 sellswords that are supposed to arrive in over a year. I laugh at the thought of Sellswords of Essos landing in the North in the middle of Winter. They would be less prepared than the Southerners. If 2,000 of them survived that trip I would be shocked.

[Woftis]

Thats different, robb was not at war with the freys, they were his vassals, it was not their place to demand a marriage to him or any of his bannermen.

Fair point.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

If stannis takes WF the northmen are going to have one hell of a time getting him out, hes held castles while low on food before. All he has to do is await his 20k sellswords, the northmen cant fight that, as well attacking stannis would be the height of stupidity, they would be better off assassinating him. Hes to dangerous to openly fight. And if the northmen do assassinate him, then I may as well root for the tyrells as that would make the northmen no different then freys/boltons/ and lannisters.

I'm not saying that he'll go down easily. If he does take Winterfell, there will be a siege but it's a situation that he could never win. True, he held Storm's End but Winterfell will be harder to hold, especially because of winter and there will be no relief for him like there was in the rebellion. He would be cut off with nobody there to assist him. If Ser Justin gets the sellswords, it would be more interesting but the only way Stannis would get out of that situation alive would be to take the black or if the Iron Bank decided to protect its investments.

ETA: For what it's worth, I hope I'm wrong.

[The Great Walrus]

Only if Jon vies for the Iron Throne, otherwise Stannis will either align with him or ignore him...

[E-Ro]

Stannis isn't going to take WF without the Northmen to help him. He has no knowledge of the castle or how to attack it. Also he isn't going to take Winterfell when outnumbered, he does only have 1,000 men. Once Winterfell is taken, the united Northern force and Stannis will all be held up in WF and he and his men would have no chance of defeating him.

Yes, did you see the quote i posted from winds? the norhtmen that tried to cross Stannis were fucked, all he had to do was bring in their leaders and remove them, nothing could be simpler.

Also lets not forget that this is much different than surviving Storms End, at Storms End Davos was able to sail in an bring fish. That is simply not an option here as none of these Southerners have any clue how to survive a norther winter, as has been proven. They would die off extremely fast. I know there is a ton of Stannis fanatics here but it is simply not realistic that he fight off the Northmen with the men that he has.

If he is sitting in winterfell comfortably he has little to worry about, especially with the northman starving as well, all he has to do is outlast them. We have seen his iron will is greater then that of anyone in westeros, he would outlast them in a waiting game, thats not to mention that if the others show up while this siege is ongoing they are screwed.

As for the 20,000 sellswords that are supposed to arrive in over a year. I laugh at the thought of Sellswords of Essos landing in the North in the middle of Winter. They would be less prepared than the Southerners. If 2,000 of them survived that trip I would be shocked.

All they have to do is put on some cloths, sellswords are professional men at arms, the threat of them arriving would be enough to force the northmen to leave WF to defend their own keeps and lands. Simmilar to how mandelry could not assist against the ironborn thanks to bolton fighting him over the hornwood lands.

[E-Ro]

I'm not saying that he'll go down easily. If he does take Winterfell, there will be a siege but it's a situation that he could never win. True, he held Storm's End but Winterfell will be harder to hold, especially because of winter and there will be no relief for him like there was in the rebellion. He would be cut off with nobody there to assist him. If Ser Justin gets the sellswords, it would be more interesting but the only way Stannis would get out of that situation alive would be to take the black or if the Iron Bank decided to protect its investments.

ETA: For what it's worth, I hope I'm wrong.

He would most likely lose, but it would be bloody and it would leave the northmen even weaker then they are and in no position to declare independence. They are better off with a peaceful dialogue or killing him quietly.