Davos will switch!

[Ponys123]

Stannis will not win. He won't survive TWOW, he's just been set up as a bad guy from the start. He'll turn evil in some pathetic way, so that we don't feel sympathy for him and Davos and the North can legitimately stab him in the back. Because Davos, unlike Stannis, is definitely a good guy.

[DExit]

Stannis will not win. He won't survive TWOW, he's just been set up as a bad guy from the start. He'll turn evil in some pathetic way, so that we don't feel sympathy for him and Davos and the North can legitimately stab him in the back. Because Davos, unlike Stannis, is definitely a good guy.

Stan is the only character comming close to a hero- didn't GRRM stated that?

He will turn evil the way I see it, which is very sad and awesome att he same time. It will depend on how it's written, but I am far from sure that i won't turn evil with him :devil:

[Ponys123]

Stan is the only character comming close to a hero- didn't GRRM stated that?

No. He stated that Stannis is a truly just man and stuff like that, and that he thinks that he's a the shit. Doesn't make him a hero. He's very far from being a hero.

He will turn evil the way I see it, which is very sad and awesome att he same time. It will depend on how it's written, but I am far from sure that i won't turn evil with him :devil:

Oh, you can be sure you won't turn evil for him. He'll do something disgusting and utterly illogical, like try murdering Rickon or something, You'll see.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Stan is the only character comming close to a hero- didn't GRRM stated that?

He will turn evil the way I see it, which is very sad and awesome att he same time. It will depend on how it's written, but I am far from sure that i won't turn evil with him :devil:

He goes to be Night's King after North crowns Rickon.

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

Stannis is batty as a box of frogs so sadly I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up killing Davos.

Then again IMO Davos is creepy in his extremist devotion to Stannis. I wouldn't be too fond of a guy who cut my fingers off as a punishment for saving his life. (Which it essentially was. If he hadn't smuggled, they would have starved.)

How Stannis' mind works really is a mystery to me.

[JLE]

I believe that Stannis cutting Davos's fingers off was punishment for his smuggling activities *prior* to the war, not during it. Davos was an opportunist, probably seeing helping Stannis out as a way to get a pardon for crimes that might otherwise have seen him beheaded: and, indeed, by Stannis's lights, leniency was what he got... just not a COMPLETE pardon, because Stannis isn't like that.

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

I believe that Stannis cutting Davos's fingers off was punishment for his smuggling activities *prior* to the war, not during it. Davos was an opportunist, probably seeing helping Stannis out as a way to get a pardon for crimes that might otherwise have seen him beheaded: and, indeed, by Stannis's lights, leniency was what he got... just not a COMPLETE pardon, because Stannis isn't like that.

That's just breathtakingly hypocritical though, Smuggling is okay when you saved my men and my life Davos, but before that? No way.

Agree with Davos getting out of being beheaded, but he's aligned himself to a really hypocritical man. I'd be constantly on eggshells if I were Davos.

Stannis is an interesting character but he his pious bull really annoys me sometimes because he is such a hypocrite.

[DExit]

No. He stated that Stannis is a truly just man and stuff like that, and that he thinks that he's a the shit. Doesn't make him a hero. He's very far from being a hero.

Oh, you can be sure you won't turn evil for him. He'll do something disgusting and utterly illogical, like try murdering Rickon or something, You'll see.

Okay, in that case I will have to proclaim him a hero on my own authority :P

I heard about the kick the dog moment, but meh, one moment of weakness does not wash out all his awesomeness. If he kills Rickon, it will be because the north turned his cloack on him to join Rickon. In that case I would still be with Stan.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Okay, in that case I will have to proclaim him a hero on my own authority :P

I heard about the kick the dog moment, but meh, one moment of weakness does not wash out all his awesomeness. If he kills Rickon, it will be because the north turned his cloack on him to join Rickon. In that case I would still be with Stan.

He kills Rickon, I would not condemn the North giving him the sacrificial treatment for every religion (burning alive, drowning, stabbed in front of heart tree, and more)

[Mammothsbane]

Firstly, I don't think there is any reason for Stannis to think Davos is double-crossing him. He's been way too loyal for too long to turn his back on Stannis now.

Secondly, if you think Manderly and the North are going to march south (again) in the middle of winter to help Stannis win the Iron Throne you are outside of your minds. Manderly is 100% using Stannis in order to free the North from the Bolton/Frey alliance. They might say they support him, but that doesn't do him a whole lot of good if they aren't willing to fight for him.

[Manderlay]

Stannis will not win. He won't survive TWOW, he's just been set up as a bad guy from the start. He'll turn evil in some pathetic way, so that we don't feel sympathy for him and Davos and the North can legitimately stab him in the back. Because Davos, unlike Stannis, is definitely a good guy.

Stannis may not win the Iron Throne in the end but I think he will survive, davos may survive as well, and Stannis has not been setup as a bad guy nor will he turn evil, he's a hard man but just, the north will support Stannis to rid themselves of Boltons/Freys. Stannis will help restoring house stark in the north.

[The Others Take Ya]

Davos will somehow end up allying with Tyrion (possibly unwittingly?). Its foreshadowed in ACOK. Before entering the inn to talk to Sallador Saan he (Paraphrase as dont have books to hand) Stops to pat a Gargoyle, no taller than his waist for luck. The Gargoyles face is worn away and disfigured from rain & salt, Davos Muses how he and the Gargoyle are like old friends.

Tyrion:

Dwarf, no taller than Davos waist

Face disfigured

Many times branded a monster (Gargoyle)

Several times is patted on the head by sailors for luck.

,,you heard it here first. (unless you read the thread I started about it)

That's funny, because I took it for foreshadowing that Davos was friends with the old gods so it would make him more likely to switch to Rickon.

I did a little study on the gargoyles and compared them to the weirwoods, if you're interested here is the link. I think they're more then they seem. They sure seem continually p1ssed at Mel's antics.

[A Man Has Said]

Stannis has done some amazing things (eg his battles, NW etc) But I thought he was a fruitcake as soon as he cut Davos' fingers off... For saving his life?

Don't get me wrong, he's a extraordinarily interesting character, I just think he's a tad nutty. To any musical fans out there, he remind's me of Javert. 'I am the law and the law is not mocked.'

The first things you learn about a character establish what the author wants you to think of his core character. IF he changes through the novel you have 'character development' and you can change your assessment. I haven't seen any development in Stannis. What you see is what you get. The first thing or one of the first things you learn about Stannis is that he cut off Davos' fingers AFTER Davos had saved his life. That IS more than a tad crazy, no matter that 'he had a good reason for it,' and it's cruelty approaching a Ramsey Bolton level. That's really got to hurt! And Davos is the ONLY person in the novel you could actually describe as being Stannis' friend. No small wonder, that.

The core of Stannis is essentially paranoia, which is not just the belief that everyone's out to get you (constant cries of treason!) but the belief that you're the centre of the universe. I think Stannis would and probably will respond to the revelation of a Stark heir in a paranoid manner. He will perceive him as a potential threat to his authority and will want him gotten rid of.

He's a bit like Cartman come to think of it: "You will respect mah authoritay!"

[A Man Has Said]

OP, this is a terrific plot idea. I don't think Rickon will appear much in TWoW, but when DoS comes around Rickon be Rockin'.

[mynameiscrom]

I don't think Davos will switch. Devan is with Melisandre at The Wall; Melisandre has seen Davos' loyalty in the flames. If you read DOD, Davos constatnly thinks along strict moral lines, and does what is right accoridng to his loyalties.

[Tini]

That's just breathtakingly hypocritical though, Smuggling is okay when you saved my men and my life Davos, but before that? No way.

Agree with Davos getting out of being beheaded, but he's aligned himself to a really hypocritical man. I'd be constantly on eggshells if I were Davos.

Stannis is an interesting character but he his pious bull really annoys me sometimes because he is such a hypocrite.

Stannis would have been a hypocrite if he had let Davos go free - that would have gone against everything Stannis believes in. The fact that Davod helped him mitigated the punishment, it did not say that smuggling is okay for whatever reason. Davos lost his fingers as punishment for his crimes, Stannis made him a knight and gave him lands as a reward for his services during the siege.

I probably misremember but I think Davos would have kept his fingers if he had not accepted the reward. At least he said something along the lines that the reward was worth the loss of his fingers. And he agreed to the punishment - provided that Stannis did it himself - which Stannis did just as Eddard Stark would have done. Without inflicting unnecessary pain - and that separates him from Ramsay Bolton. I think Davos respects Stannis for this.

[DExit]

The first thing or one of the first things you learn about Stannis is that he cut off Davos' fingers AFTER Davos had saved his life. That IS more than a tad crazy, no matter that 'he had a good reason for it,' and it's cruelty approaching a Ramsey Bolton level. That's really got to hurt! And Davos is the ONLY person in the novel you could actually describe as being Stannis' friend. No small wonder, that.

Well, it's actually a small wonder, the only friend he has is a man who saved him and he cut his fingers of. Davos didn't become rich of his knighthood, so Stannis inspires loyalty in him, that is a huge quality. Yes, cutting Davos' fingers of is painfull, today we would consider it cruelty, but don't forget that in westeros people lose hands for theft and get castrated by knife for rape, hanged for murder and treason. The only reason JC doesn't cut his fingertips of is because he can't explain why he would do it, he fears no pain in that. Yes, it hurts like hell, but it's nothing compared to Ramsey tacticks.

Oh, and BTW, could you please point out Robert's friends apart from Ned? Jon was a fatherlike figure for him so he doesn't count. Renly's only friend is Loras who is gay at him, so that counts only by half. Rob was betrayed by theon, awesome friend!

Everyone in the novels on a certain position of power has men loyal to him, but not many friends, Ned couldn't save Robert, Ned died alone, Renly and loras stuck together yes, Rob died with loyal men around him, but not with his friends. No man was helped by his friends as much as Stannis.

If you are winning and people are shouting your name, that doesn't make them friends!

[Ponys123]

Stannis may not win the Iron Throne in the end but I think he will survive, davos may survive as well, and Stannis has not been setup as a bad guy nor will he turn evil, he's a hard man but just, the north will support Stannis to rid themselves of Boltons/Freys. Stannis will help restoring house stark in the north.

You don't read too many books, do you?

[DExit]

You don't read too many books, do you?

Fellow stannis lover insulted, StanFans! Assemble!

But seriously, I fear Stan is gonna bite the dust :crying: :bawl: :frown5:

It just doesn't make sense to make him survive the novels the way I see it.

[The Bastard of Walton]

Fellow stannis lover insulted, StanFans! Assemble!

But seriously, I fear Stan is gonna bite the dust :crying: :bawl: :frown5:

It just doesn't make sense to make him survive the novels the way I see it.

Stannis 4 King! :lol: