I suspect Manderly has at least 4000 heavy horse left in his hands

[Faint]

House Hightower can field 12.000 heavy horse and 24.000 men-at-arms? Not doubting you here, but could you please provide a quote here?

You are right though, I forgot about Hightower, they can definitely field more men than the Manderlys.

I'm thinking they can field a total force of something like 20,000 to 25,000 men, simply by extrapolating from the reality that they have three times as many men as any other Reach house (excluding the Tyrells). Sam notes this fact in the chapter when he arrives at Oldtown.

Two facts to keep in mind:

1) Oldtown and the surrounding environs is the most densly populated area in all of Westeros.

2) Only Cersei Lannister is richer than Leyton Hightower.

No way. If the Hightowers could field three times the numbers of the Manderleys, they would be on par with the Westerlands, somewhat weaker than the North, Vale and Riverlands and heads and shoulders above Dorne, the Stormlands and the Ironborn.

Your problem is that you grossly overestimate how many men Manderly can field. He can't field 15,000 men; he probably can't even field 10,000 men.

[VivaVictarion2]

The Hightowers rule as kings in all but name, with a big "don't interfere, or we will start playing, you don't want that" sign.

Exactly. They're smart enough to know that a crown or a puppet king in their pocket would only hinder them by painting a target on their backs. Who wants the trouble of ruling KL when you got Oldtown? This seems to be in keeping with their description as a house of wisdom and knowledge.

[Andros Sotherton]

Been a year since I last read the books, had all forgotten about House Hightower. Looked at the map and...wow!

Who wants the trouble of ruling KL when you got Oldtown?

Indeed! He controls about, what, a fifth of The Reach? In terms of land. And is it far a stretch to say he could have half the man power within his territories?

Guess they are satisfied with this but I'm throwing this out for you guys - could he overthrow the Tyrells?

Yes he is very careful and strategic, as seems to be the general feel of the people in The Reach to me. But if the Tyrells should order something completely outrageous or side with the wrong cause, do you think the Hightowers might do it? And if, succeed?

[Fauch]

Overthrow? He has probably little interest. He is so powerful he can bloody well ignore anything the Tyrells want from him though. Something like the Frey-Tully relationship.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Overthrow? He has probably little interest. He is so powerful he can bloody well ignore anything the Tyrells want from him though. Something like the Frey-Tully relationship.

They already have the perfect geographical position without pushing for a change. Apart from the riches of Oldtown they have 5 noble houses sworn to them to boost his income.

The Arbor and the Shield Islands protect their city from Pirates and other naval attacks. The Tarlys at Horn Hill protect them from Dornish incursions while any attack from other Westeros Kingdoms would have to bypass Highgarden to attack them.

The Hightowers seemingly get all the perks of being an Overlord, riches sworn nobles no pressure to raise their banners for anyone without any of the hassles of watching their back.

[direwienerdog]

Manderly is shaping up to be one of my favourite characters

Haha you said Manderly is shaping up.Mayhap you should say he is rounding into your favorite.

[Andros Sotherton]

Overthrow? He has probably little interest. He is so powerful he can bloody well ignore anything the Tyrells want from him though. Something like the Frey-Tully relationship.

The Hightowers seemingly get all the perks of being an Overlord, riches sworn nobles no pressure to raise their banners for anyone without any of the hassles of watching their back.

I guess they do. But what would you answer me if I only put it in the simple question; could he overthrow the Tyrells?

[Fauch]

Everyone can overthrow anyone, given enough support. We saw that the Boltons could overthrow the Starks, without them being the second strongest House in the North, so I guess your answer is yes.

[Barty]

No way does Lord Manderly have anything near 4,000 heavy horse. However, he did hold his men back. He only coughed up 40 heavy horse to Robb's army at the start, iirc.

My guess would be in the region of 400-800 knights and armoured lancers in total.

He sent 40 knights but another 200 mounted lances(Northern heavy cavalry but not Knights).

Compare him to the Freys - they had 1000 heavy horse and 3000 infantry. Manderly controls an area at least 4 times as large as Lord Walder and also controls one of the biggest cities in westeros(I dont care how rich that bridge makes the Freys - it cant compare to White Harbor). Frey has no cities, lesser lands and is poorer than Manderly but can still raise 1000 knights - so this would imply Manderly can easily raise more cavalry than Frey. I'm guessing Manderly can raise 2000+ heavy horse.

Also Manderly is quite confident he can raise more heavy cavalry than any other northern lord and Bolton has 500 cavalry(he says so to Robb) so the figure of 400 you have provided is very much off the mark.

[Morienthar]

He probably doesn't have 4000 knights i.e people with ser attached to their names,But I believe he has 2000 odd Heavy Cavalry+ Their Squires which makes the total of cavalry anywhere between 4000-4500.

Edit...

If you go through the thread It might seem like I'm contradicting myself but I just felt I wasn't particularly clear the first time around.

[King Aerys the Just]

What a strange thread.

Lord Lamprey says that he commands more heavy horse than any other lord in the North, not the that he commands more heavy horse than them all put together. Same as how somebody being taller than anyone else in his class, or whatever, doesn't mean that he is taller than all the others combined. Isn't this pretty basic?

So what the fat man's claim to Davos really means is that he has more than just a couple of hundred heavy horsemen left, since that should be what other mighty lords like Roose Bolton and Lady Dustin are looking at.

Also all cavalry isn't heavy cavalry.

[Fauch]

Uhh..are you sure we should add squires to the total count of armored horse?

[Morienthar]

Uhh..are you sure we should add squires to the total count of armored horse?

Armored or no they will be on Horses hence they will be cavalry....

What I don't understand is that the Cavalry will be of almost no use to him if winter hits at it's peak,The warfare in the North is going to be more sieges and hit and run than Cavalry charges.

[Andros Sotherton]

Everyone can overthrow anyone, given enough support. We saw that the Boltons could overthrow the Starks, without them being the second strongest House in the North, so I guess your answer is yes.

Ah, of course. I had in mind some good old fashioned field battles, power against power. And only Reach, no other supporters.

[Barty]

What a strange thread.

Lord Lamprey says that he commands more heavy horse than any other lord in the North, not the that he commands more heavy horse than them all put together. Same as how somebody being taller than anyone else in his class, or whatever, doesn't mean that he is taller than all the others combined. Isn't this pretty basic?

So what the fat man's claim to Davos really means is that he has more than just a couple of hundred heavy horsemen left, since that should be what other mighty lords like Roose Bolton and Lady Dustin are looking at.

Also all cavalry isn't heavy cavalry.

Couple of hundred?? Bolton has 500 heavy horse from his initial host and Ramsay adds to that another few hundred at least(iirc most of his host is cavalry). So thats 700-800 heavy horse for Bolton alone.

[Free Northman]

What a strange thread.

Lord Lamprey says that he commands more heavy horse than any other lord in the North, not the that he commands more heavy horse than them all put together. Same as how somebody being taller than anyone else in his class, or whatever, doesn't mean that he is taller than all the others combined. Isn't this pretty basic?

So what the fat man's claim to Davos really means is that he has more than just a couple of hundred heavy horsemen left, since that should be what other mighty lords like Roose Bolton and Lady Dustin are looking at.

Also all cavalry isn't heavy cavalry.

Bolton likely has at least 500 heavy horse left as of Dance. Manderly has more than that. I would estimate Manderly has between 800 and 1000 heavy horse left.

That is a massive number, considering that Robb only had about 4000 cavalry altogether when he marched South. However, I would say that the North's total cavalry number when fully mobilized, is at around 20% of 45,000, which equals around 8000 - 9000, of which Manderly probably as 1500 or so.

He would definitely have significantly more heavy horse than the Freys.

[Morienthar]

I guess they do. But what would you answer me if I only put it in the simple question; could he overthrow the Tyrells?

Nope.They control too much land have too many Knightly houses under them.

[Fauch]

Ah, of course. I had in mind some good old fashioned field battles, power against power. And only Reach, no other supporters.

Well...House Hightower vs Tyrells + every other Reach house (sans Florents probably) ?

Tyrells still have it easy.

[King Aerys the Just]

Bolton likely has at least 500 heavy horse left as of Dance. Manderly has more than that. I would estimate Manderly has between 800 and 1000 heavy horse left.

That is a massive number, considering that Robb only had about 4000 cavalry altogether when he marched South. However, I would say that the North's total cavalry number when fully mobilized, is at around 20% of 45,000, which equals around 8000 - 9000, of which Manderly probably as 1500 or so.

He would definitely have significantly more heavy horse than the Freys.

Sounds about right. 10-15% of their armies as heavy cavalry seems to be about what the Lannisters had based on the Battle of the Green Fork and the little information we get about Jaime's host, and that would add up for Renly's army as well I think considering it contained 20 000 cavalry in total out of 100 000 men. So in light of that 500 for Bolton could be right, if he has about 4000 men left.

[Barty]

Bolton likely has at least 500 heavy horse left as of Dance. Manderly has more than that. I would estimate Manderly has between 800 and 1000 heavy horse left.

That is a massive number, considering that Robb only had about 4000 cavalry altogether when he marched South. However, I would say that the North's total cavalry number when fully mobilized, is at around 20% of 45,000, which equals around 8000 - 9000, of which Manderly probably as 1500 or so.

He would definitely have significantly more heavy horse than the Freys.

Bolton has more than 500 horse - he has 500 when he reaches the twins

His queer colorless eyes studied her face a moment before he answered. “Some five hundred horse and three thousand foot, my lady. Dreadfort men, in chief, and some from Karhold. With the loyalty of the Karstarks so doubtful now, I thought it best to keep them close. I regret there are not more.”

After he crossed MC, he was joined by Ramsay who had some cavalry of his own - I'd guess 200-300. So total Bolton horse is 700-800. IMO Manderly currently could raise 1300-1500 heavy horse.