Do the Warlocks Have Euron?

[Capon Breath]

I already dismantled it in the post directly above yours. Pre-dismantled, you might say.

One of the best Ownings I've recieved on here.

Unless of course you're wrong & i'm right

[Lord Reaver]

Well, we'll have to wait for the next book to find out, won't we ?

[Parwan]

It's a nice theory, but we don't know exactly how the Shade of the Evening works. His blue lips just indicate he's been drinking the stuff for a while, not that he's somehow dominated or replaced. We know Daenerys drinks the stuff without effects past the visions, though that was drinking it once and not for some time, as Euron seems to have done.

True. So I'll present some speculation on how Shade of the Evening works.

It penetrates into the psyche and magnifies important aspects of a person. If you consume enough of the stuff, it can really dominate your thoughts and start to exert control over you. Dany does have the blood of ancient Valyria. She has visionary dreams. As an orphan, she has a real need for family, and a definite tendency to worship her dead hero-sibling. It would be natural for the Undying, with the help of the Shade, to pull visions from her.

Frankly I highly doubt that a Warlock masquerading as Euron would be able to fool Vic and all the other ironborn. He'd have to have learned an awful lot about a society completely foreign to them, not to mention personal mannerisms etc.

Euron's speech about flying simply reinforces that he's a risk-taker to the extreme, which seems to fit well with the Euron we are presented with during Balon's rebellion (before any Shade of Evening or warlocks).

Euron is a criminal and a megalomaniac. He is a risk-taker with an extremely high opinion of himself. Giving him expanded visions of glory would be no problem. It's possible that he did have some ideas along the lines of "what if I could fly?" as a child. The blue/black stuff really exaggerates these ideas. It also gives him expanded ambitions of conquest--most beautiful woman in the world as my bride, iron born as masters of dragons and rulers of Westeros (maybe the world), etc.

The interesting point is what was the story that the Warlocks told Euron when he captured their ship ? I agree they are almost certainly influencing his decisions (I doubt he'd even know about, let alone plan to marry Daenerys without their knowledge), though to what extent is uncertain as of yet.

Yes, I'd say that the warlocks are still in the game. Do they control him or just influence him? One can come up with several possibilities here. (See below)

It's worse than you think OP!

Pyatt Pree has killed and replaced Euron.

4 Warlocks went on board the ship 1 conveniently was killed & thrown overboard. What actually happened was Pyatt Pree sucked out Eurons lifeforce and replaced him. J

Evidence? Pah as if I need any, but just to keep you happy.

Euron was MIA for years

Euron had no interest in Dragons or Dany or doing anything other than being a pirate

Euron had normal lips

Suddenly Euron is back on the scene

Obsessed with Dany & Dragons

Has Blue lips

Is hanging round with Warlocks

1 of the Warlocks has conveniently disappeared.

From the Authors perspective, why have cool undying blue lipped creepy Warlocks involved in such a pivotal early scene in the series with a strong revenge motivation and ditch them in favour of a johnny come lately 1 dimensional pirate (seriously how dull are the iron born)

Literary sense

Compelling evidence.

I present Pyatt Pree = Euron for your dismantling......

I call that one possibility. I'd make one correction though. Euron didn't claim that he had thrown the warlock overboard. He said, "One presumed to threaten me, so I killed him and fed him to the other three. They refused to eat of their friend's flesh at first, but when they grew hungry enough they had a change of heart."

[Lord Reaver]

Euron is a criminal and a megalomaniac.

Megalomaniac ? Perhaps. Criminal ? Not really. What law has he broken ?

The blue/black stuff really exaggerates these ideas. It also gives him expanded ambitions of conquest--most beautiful woman in the world as my bride, iron born as masters of dragons and rulers of Westeros (maybe the world), etc.

That's a possibility yes, but by no means certain. As I pointed out, we don't know exactly what drinking Shade of the Evening does.

[Young Nan]

Megalomaniac ? Perhaps. Criminal ? Not really. What law has he broken?

hiring a FM to kill his brother, piracy, rape.

[Lord Reaver]

No proof of him hiring anyone to kill Balon.

Piracy ? Westeros has no law against piracy in other parts of the world.

Rape ? Who exactly has he raped ? From what I recall he takes lord soanso's bastard daughter when he takes the Shield Islands, but she seems rather willing.

[Parwan]

Megalomaniac ? Perhaps. Criminal ? Not really. What law has he broken ?

...

Enslaving people. If you don't think that is a crime, you should consult Jorah Mormont on the matter.

[Lord Reaver]

At that point, he's the King of the Iron Islands. As such, he IS the law.

[Young Nan]

No proof of him hiring anyone to kill Balon.

Piracy ? Westeros has no law against piracy in other parts of the world.

Rape ? Who exactly has he raped ? From what I recall he takes lord soanso's bastard daughter when he takes the Shield Islands, but she seems rather willing.

he raped victarion's wife. probably lots of other women too, while reaving. all the ironborn do that though, raping is kind of their "thing".

I'm pretty neutral towards Euron, just saying, he has committed crimes.

[Lord Reaver]

Nope, he seduced her. Big difference there.

As for reaving, well they don't do it in Westeros (except for the very recent events) so technically it's not a crime.

Also, I'm not trying to whitewash Euron here, he's clearly a villain of the level of Roose and Gregor, with few redeeming qualities if any.

[Young Nan]

Nope, he seduced her. Big difference there.

As for reaving, well they don't do it in Westeros (except for the very recent events) so technically it's not a crime.

Also, I'm not trying to whitewash Euron here, he's clearly a villain of the level of Roose and Gregor, with few redeeming qualities if any.

they never say he did seduce her, Euron says he did, but I dunno....she got beaten to death for it so it seems like a stupid thing to do on her part just for some creepy Euron-lovin'. I thought he had raped her and he was just bullshitting to mess with vicky boy.

[Lord Reaver]

Well, as we don't have her around to hear her side of it...

All we have is Euron saying she came to him wet and willing, and Victarion obviously accepting it.

From the sound of it, it wasn't a one-time thing either, since she got pregnant.

[daario's man]

It would also make sense why he wants to attack Oldtown and the Citadel (known haters of magic)

That make no sense at all.

[daario's man]

I have wondered the same thing. I have also wondered if Euron was already dead and the Euron we see is a warlock and that is why the crew's tongues have been removed. This might be the reason they sent Victarion to Dany, because the dragons would be able to see it is a warlock through the glamor. Or another thing I have wondered is if the Euron we see is a warlock, while Euron with another face has gone to Mereen with Victarion (not the dusky woman, I think that would be too much of a stretch). That way he would be there to take control of one of the dragons. Really, the whole story line with Euron is so odd that it just begs for readers to make up all sorts of fantastic theories. I don't really have any that I favor at this point. I just like making up a lot of different permutations since the whole thing is so mysterious. I can't wait to see how that all pans out.

It would be funny if it turned out that Euron had glamoured himself into that maester, raped then thrown overboard. Probably didn't happen, but it would be a good lesson in the irresponsible use of magic.

[bent branch]

It would be funny if it turned out that Euron had glamoured himself into that maester, raped then thrown overboard. Probably didn't happen, but it would be a good lesson in the irresponsible use of magic.

I hadn't thought about that, but yes you're right, it would be funny.

[daario's man]

It's worse than you think OP!

Pyatt Pree has killed and replaced Euron.

4 Warlocks went on board the ship 1 conveniently was killed & thrown overboard. What actually happened was Pyatt Pree sucked out Eurons lifeforce and replaced him. J

Evidence? Pah as if I need any, but just to keep you happy.

Euron was MIA for years

Euron had no interest in Dragons or Dany or doing anything other than being a pirate

Euron had normal lips

Suddenly Euron is back on the scene

Obsessed with Dany & Dragons

Has Blue lips

Is hanging round with Warlocks

1 of the Warlocks has conveniently disappeared.

From the Authors perspective, why have cool undying blue lipped creepy Warlocks involved in such a pivotal early scene in the series with a strong revenge motivation and ditch them in favour of a johnny come lately 1 dimensional pirate (seriously how dull are the iron born)

Literary sense

Compelling evidence.

I present Pyatt Pree = Euron for your dismantling......

You've presented no evidence.

Euron was sent away about the time Dany left Pentos, so of cause he had no intention of finding her before this. He claims to have sailed all over the world, and while I'm not suggesting everything he claims is true he surly must have come across many of the sailors stories along his travels. He must have met up with the warlocks to get the shade of evening, and this is when he could have confirmed the stories.

At the point we meet him he is still acting as Victarion is expecting him to, so there is little chance the he is fully controlled by the warlocks. He may however be working with them.

Euron claims to have a great plan conquer Westeros, but he seems to have just jumped into it far too quickly. I believe he is purely out for his own ambition and is not concerned about the fate of the Ironborn. Killing Dany is the best way to get him rewards from the warlocks. On the other hand if he did manage to capture the dragons it would set him up as the the ultimate reaver.

I imagine this is his ultimate goal.

[daario's man]

No proof of him hiring anyone to kill Balon.

The woods witch seemed to suggest it was a FM. who else would have him killed in such a manor, who else could pay for it. Euron claims he had a dragon's egg but threw it overboard. Do you not think it more likely that he gave it in payment for the assassination. Of cause this could be more evidence that he is league with the warlocks, what is more likely that the horn and egg were given to him by the warlocks or that he went to Vaeryer?

[Ice Turtle]

I don't think Euron is anyone's puppet. That episode with warlocks shows that he is a very dangerous man and no one, not even otherwise powerful people and organizations should feel safe around him. He probably tortured the warlocks to gain some useful information. He will try to overpower Dany and he may even succeed for a time and I think he will go against FM too, to get back what he gave them.

Euron is a sadist and a gambler, but he is also very intelligent and able to think out of box, probably with some magical abilities of his own. There is also chance that he is undead or close to it like Melisandre.

[Lord Reaver]

Frankly, I don't think he needed to torture the warlocks to get them to spill their guts.

When someone kills your companion and makes you -eat- him, that should be more than enough intimidation for most people to comply with pretty much anything.

[Manderlay]

Here's the theory:

It could be that Victarion is purely a puppet. Furthermore, it may even be the case that Euron is actually a puppet. The so-called slaves may be the ultimate puppet masters. This is suggested by Euron's blue lips and his wacked-out talk about flying. The warlocks that he "has" may, in fact, have him. This could be the meaning of Moqorro's "blood visions," particularly the vision he tells Vic about:

"...your great axe dripping blood, blind to the tentacles that grasp you at wrist and

neck and ankle, the black strings that make you dance."

This would fit in with warlock goals--maximize blood and death, cause Dany major damage, perhaps destroy her.

I've thought of a few things for and against this theory. Overall, I didn't favor it at first, but I'm beginning to like it more as I weigh the positives and negatives. I welcome your thoughts on the matter.

An Interesting theory, If Pyat Pree is pulling Euron's strings, that would make a confrontation between Euron and Victarion very likely, I had always thought that Euron made a mistake by giving the horn to Victarion, and we saw some of Victarion's independent side and his desire to kill Euron. However the textual hints are very few that Euron is in league with Pyat Pree, nonetheless it is an possibility.