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Athenais

Daenerys will destroy Westeros... my fan theory as to the series resolution

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(F)Aegon has a very good chance of taking the IT merely because the current occupiers, ie, Lannisters, are in a weakened state. Tyrell remains a bit of a wild card. Martell will likely back FAegon, Stannis is occupied up north, the Northern forces are both decimated and infighting, and the Iron Born are either in Essos or also in disarray. I don't think Aegon will sit the IT long, but he will claim it briefly.

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And he did help Robb by killing renly and attacking kl, it's no his fault Robb could not properly command his subordinates resulting in a tywin victory and Robb's head on a wolf.

But Stannis and Mel included Robb in their leech death wish. Presuming Bran knows this (he likely will), I don't see Bran playing neutral in this.

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This guy knows whats up. Seriously I firmly believe Stannis is the greatest living general in Westeros at the conclusion of ADWD.

....or at the beginning of agot

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....or at the beginning of agot

Didn't wanna go TOO overboard with my initial post, Tywin and Robb are definitely up there too. But I think you're right.

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Didn't wanna go TOO overboard with my initial post, Tywin and Robb are definitely up there too. But I think you're right.

Agreed. But Robb and Tywin are dead now...

Love your signature btw

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Especially since ADWD I've definitely become more and more keen on the belief that Dany will end up being an antagonist - in addition to all the torture and other wonderful things like that she ordered in Meereen, when/if she gets to Westeros her first priority will undoubtedly be to wipe out the "Usupers Dogs" who she refuses to believe are anything better than Satan incarnate. While this means she could wipe out the (arguably) antagonistic House Lannister, she would be no more merciful to our beloved House Stark, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Of course, she will face off against Aegon in the next Dance of Dragons first, and honestly I have a feeling Aegon might actually be the real thing, but of course, Dany won't want to hear that. She'll kill her own nephew without even realizing it. Or of course he could just be a Blackfyre, but either way, there's no way Dany won't come out on top of the Dance of Dragons, and will likely devastate the South ala The Field of Fire along the way.

But of course, as of others have mentioned...she will have the Rightful King of Westeros to contend with when she moves North, backed by House Stark and the might of The North (for those of you Northern Conspiracy people, a Patchface line basically foretold Stannis will use Manderlys fleet at some point later in the books, and Patchface predicted the fuckin Red Wedding so I'm inclined to believe anything that comes out of his mouth), and probably House Tully and Arryn as well...I mean The Knights of the Vale have to have been preserved so long for a reason.

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Wow, I had no idea support for Stannis was so strong amongst fans :o

Also I dont like thinking of anybody in this series as an antagonist or protagonist. The characters we were set up to think of as protagonists participated in a pointless rebellion over a personal conflict, and toppled the order of an entire continent in the process, which as the series progresses we can see has never really recovered from Robert usurping the Targaryens. Sure the mad king was no good, but GRRM has kind of gone out of his way to make the point that Rhaegar would have been a pretty aight king. Even characters with noble motivation (i.e. Ned Stark) are not exempt from the scrutiny of history...was it worth starting this whole game of thrones to help Robert take revenge over a stolen girlfriend?

So I dont think Dany is an antagonist any more than I think anybody else is... I think the whole point is that Westeros has devolved into a continuous circle of chaos and self destruction, and I think Dany will see that and find it obvious that Westeros cant be "fixed", it needs to be destroyed and rebuilt. And what could break down the (magic) wall other than her (magic) dragons?

And sorry, I think stannis is pooched. People who put faith in sorcerers who burn "infidels" alive don't usually win out in the end. I think Melisandre will take one look at Dany and be all like "oh snap... this is actually the fiery hero I prophesied not this loser who cuts off his buddies fingers" and ditch him right quick.

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Firstly, I think a lot of people are invested in the idea of Daenerys and John Snow somehow teaming up and eradicating the others. I think that may have been GRRMs original plan, but I will be shocked if he ends up sticking to it. I think his story has gotten a bit out of his control, and his original plans have clearly been shifted more than once. The trajectory I think that Daenerys' story in particular is on, is not one of saving Westeros, but one of intentionally decimating it.

i don't think GRRM has ever changed the ending plan tbh. he makes bit changes no doubt over the years on how characters will get from A to B etc. but id be fairly certain he has always had the same endings for the major characters.

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And sorry, I think stannis is pooched. People who put faith in sorcerers who burn "infidels" alive don't usually win out in the end. I think Melisandre will take one look at Dany and be all like "oh snap... this is actually the fiery hero I prophesied not this loser who cuts off his buddies fingers" and ditch him right quick.

'Put faith' the Mel POV in ADWD gave it clear: Stan doesn't love her, he uses her- okay she is thrice as hot as his wife, but Stan wasn't a known whorer before her.

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Especially since ADWD I've definitely become more and more keen on the belief that Dany will end up being an antagonist - in addition to all the torture and other wonderful things like that she ordered in Meereen, when/if she gets to Westeros her first priority will undoubtedly be to wipe out the "Usupers Dogs" who she refuses to believe are anything better than Satan incarnate. While this means she could wipe out the (arguably) antagonistic House Lannister, she would be no more merciful to our beloved House Stark, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Who says her mind is totally bent on destruction of Starks? ADWD showed she was rather uncomfortable on the issue, so dismissed it brusquely. That doesn't show absolute conviction, it shows unwillingness to deal with the issue.

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..And he did help Robb by killing renly and attacking kl, it's no his fault Robb could not properly command his subordinates resulting in a tywin victory and Robb's head on a wolf.

I'm sorry, but that's a complete misrepresentation of the facts. Nothing hurt Robb's cause worse than Stannis killing Renly did. Renly's forces, which included the Tyrells and Randyll Tarly, possibly the best all-round general in Westeros, would have made short work of the Lannisters in KL, removing the threat in the Riverlands.

Not to mention the leech thing, which has already been mentioned, and the fact that Stannis has on more than one occasion explicitly said, "Ned Stark is no friend of mine" and "Robb Stark is no friend of mine." He should have no expectation that the Starks consider him a friend.

It's fine for you to be a fan of Stannis, but don't go so far as to imagine that it allows you to make up your own facts to back up your foregone conclusion.

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Nonsense. Bran is likely to see the justice and morality of stannis' cause and want to kill dragons(or at least prevent dany from using them.)

Why? Does Bran hate dragons and no one told me? Why would he want to kill dragons?

Or is this part of the "Dany will go crazy and burn westeros to the ground so kill the dragons to stop her" theory?

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But Stannis and Mel included Robb in their leech death wish. Presuming Bran knows this (he likely will), I don't see Bran playing neutral in this.

I've always wondered whether that little ritual would become known in the north. Sure, it didn't actually have any effect, but the intent was absolutely there, and that's what will matter. Bran seems a likely source for the reveal. And the more I think about it, the more I think that the story will get out. What would Jon think of Stannis then? If this came up as a point of contention between Stannis and the northmen, I think it'd fit pretty nicely with the Grand Northern Conspiracy, because it would give the northerners greater cause to break with Stannis once they have used him to rid themselves of the Boltons. It would provide grounds for righteous anger against Stannis, in which case the north's decision to back a King in the North rather than Stannis in the south would not come off as a breach of trust or an outright betrayal. Rather, it would reaffirm to northerners their position since book one that southron lords and their petty games are nothing but trouble for the north.

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..The characters we were set up to think of as protagonists participated in a pointless rebellion over a personal conflict, and toppled the order of an entire continent in the process, which as the series progresses we can see has never really recovered from Robert usurping the Targaryens. Sure the mad king was no good, but GRRM has kind of gone out of his way to make the point that Rhaegar would have been a pretty aight king. Even characters with noble motivation (i.e. Ned Stark) are not exempt from the scrutiny of history...was it worth starting this whole game of thrones to help Robert take revenge over a stolen girlfriend?

...

And sorry, I think stannis is pooched. People who put faith in sorcerers who burn "infidels" alive don't usually win out in the end. I think Melisandre will take one look at Dany and be all like "oh snap... this is actually the fiery hero I prophesied not this loser who cuts off his buddies fingers" and ditch him right quick.

^^THIS^^ :agree: Finally, someone who has read the books, made a pretty accurate assessment of what they say, and come to the conclusions that the author is obviously begging us to make.

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^^THIS^^ :agree: Finally, someone who has read the books, made a pretty accurate assessment of what they say, and come to the conclusions that the author is obviously begging us to make.

Only thing GRRM remotely "begs" us to do is to buy his books. Your conclusions are mostly your own.

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I've always wondered whether that little ritual would become known in the north. Sure, it didn't actually have any effect, but the intent was absolutely there, and that's what will matter. Bran seems a likely source for the reveal. And the more I think about it, the more I think that the story will get out. What would Jon think of Stannis then?..

Well said, but I think the source for that tale reaching the North has to be Davos, who was a witness. Or, much less likely Melisandre or Stannis himself, but I can't see either of them revealing something that they both should be profoundly ashamed of.

The north did a good job all by themselves for 8,000 years of maintaining the watch and keeping the Others AND the wildlings at bay. Then Torrhen bent the knee and it started going all wrong. The resonating story of the series is that the Northmen should stay in the North and look to their own affairs. Them southrons is jes' crazy beeyotches!

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I've always wondered whether that little ritual would become known in the north. Sure, it didn't actually have any effect, but the intent was absolutely there, and that's what will matter. Bran seems a likely source for the reveal. And the more I think about it, the more I think that the story will get out. What would Jon think of Stannis then? If this came up as a point of contention between Stannis and the northmen, I think it'd fit pretty nicely with the Grand Northern Conspiracy, because it would give the northerners greater cause to break with Stannis once they have used him to rid themselves of the Boltons. It would provide grounds for righteous anger against Stannis, in which case the north's decision to back a King in the North rather than Stannis in the south would not come off as a breach of trust or an outright betrayal. Rather, it would reaffirm to northerners their position since book one that southron lords and their petty games are nothing but trouble for the north.

That'll be an interesting scene to read and I don't think the northmen are going to think it didn't have any effect - Blood sacrifice was a regular practice in the north till pretty recently, they probably believe in some magical power of blood.

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OP, I love your theory, however I think that there is a strong chance Dany will try to build a family and legacy.

She doesn't yet know it, but she has (in my opinion) at least one living Targ relative, maybe two.

If Aegon is the real deal, then her legacy need not die with her. If she finds him and believes that he is real (and given what we know about his hair and eye color, it's a distinct possibility) then she can bring him in as an heir.

Additionally, if it does turn out that R+L = Jon Snow, then she has not one but two heirs, with Aegon (if legit) being the first in line.

So if she ever finds out about either of those two guys, it won't necessarily matter that she's barren, so long as she has the power to take Westeros and hold it.

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As usual, people are blowing the whole "OMG STANNIS USED LEECHES TO KILL ROBB" thing way out of proportion. For starts, Robbs death had been being planned by Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton and Walder Frey as far back as ACoK. Why the hell would they ever find out? The only witnesses of it were Stannis, Mel and Davos, all of whom are too smart to actually risk mentioning it to the Northmen...actually believing that will make any kind of difference at all is just grasping at straws.

Stannis is going to use The North to help him take the Iron Throne. Patchface foretold that he would use Manderlys fleet at some point later in the books. He'll probably get the Riverlands and Vale on his side as well.

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