Lightbringer/Azor Ahai Theories (Spoilers)

[Woftis]

Ahhh :lol:

[Sansa_Stark]

Dragons aren't Lightbringer imo. 3 baby dragons taking on the others seems fairly cheap to me.

[Ghost's Shadow]

@Ghost's Shadow

You are arguing of NW being AAR's LB? and if it isn't then what is?

No, I don't believe the NW is anyone's LB. It's just a vow meant to keep them on their places when the Others come: fighting alongside AAR because he cannot do it alone.

Is there a part of 'if the Others have ice swords, then why can it not be so that AA/AAR has a fire sword so it won't shatter when touching the ice sword' unclear? :blush:

[Jon's Queen Consort]

No, I don't believe the NW is anyone's LB. It's just a vow meant to keep them on their places when the Others come: fighting alongside AAR because he cannot do it alone.

Oh I see. Ok that is your opinion I don't say that you have too agree with me.

Is there a part of 'if the Others have ice swords, then why can it not be so that AA/AAR has a fire sword so it won't shatter when touching the ice sword' unclear? :blush:

I am sorry I am not a native English speaker so it was a little unclear for me. Sorry again.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Has two swords touching each other in battle ever been described as singing swords or anything like that?

The sword of the Other that Samwell Tarly slew gleamed with a faint blue glow, when the ice blue blade brushed the flames of Grenn's torch a screech as sharp as a needle stabbed Sam's ears.

Perhaps the Song of Ice and Fire is the sword of ice from an Other and the sword of fire from The Last Hero dancing together in battle.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Oh I see. Ok that is your opinion I don't say that you have too agree with me.

I am sorry I am not a native English speaker so it was a little unclear for me. Sorry again.

It's ok. I'm not a native speaker either. :)

I did say something about the NW and their vow being a source of strength so perhaps that could be considered as them being LB (companions to AAR), but then I'd still see AA and AAR with an actual sword.

[King of Winters]

Has two swords touching each other in battle ever been described as singing swords or anything like that?

Perhaps the Song of Ice and Fire is the sword of ice from an Other and the sword of fire from The Last Hero dancing together in battle.

I think the only time a sword is described as 'singing' is when you swing the sword and it makes that high pitched sound.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Could be, yes, but perhaps there's still a little chance of the Ice and Fire swords doing something (see the quote and the sound the ice sword makes when touching fire).

[King of Winters]

Could be, yes, but perhaps there's still a little chance of the Ice and Fire swords doing something (see the quote and the sound the ice sword makes when touching fire).

It think it's the ice sword reacting to the heat and it doesn't sound like its a singing type sound to me.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Yes, 'song' could be a word chosen to pretty it up. AA must have been deaf at the end. :P

[The guy from the Vale]

It's ok. I'm not a native speaker either. :)

I did say something about the NW and their vow being a source of strength so perhaps that could be considered as them being LB (companions to AAR), but then I'd still see AA and AAR with an actual sword.

Why does there need to be an actual sword? One sword will do nothing to counter the threat of the Others. You need something more powerful, something like the sword in the darkness, the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn.

This whole magical McGuffin sword business in fantasy is extremely silly, and I'd consider GRRM a lesser writer if he resorted to it instead of deconstructing it like he has deconstructed other fantasy clichés. There will be such a sword, but it's a metaphorical sword, not an actual one.

[Stark Vengeance]

*looks disapprovingly*

I see no mention of the theory that Tormund's Member is in fact Lightbringer! :dunno:

Har! Now that would be a doozy. Tormund would probably be finicky with whom would be wielding it, wouldn't he?

This is why I love these books, and also love this forum.

One line. One tiny line, amongst tens of thousands, and there you have something to discuss for hours. Summer sees "a winged snake" in North Westeros. Hmmm. Hot springs under Winterfell......Winterfell on fire.......dragon awakens. Wow. How cool is that?

[NiggardGuy]

Jon is AAR/TPTWP and Dawn is Lightbringer.

I agree. When Jon was stabbed in the end of DoD, Bowen Marsh is crying when he stabs him (tears = salt), and Jon notices that his wounds appear to be smoking. From this he will be reborn (amidst smoke and salt) and his Lightbringer will be Ghost somehow. Not sure how Ghost becomes Lightbringer or if Jon needs to stab Ghost thru the heart to create Lightbringer.

[King of Winters]

I agree. When Jon was stabbed in the end of DoD, Bowen Marsh is crying when he stabs him (tears = salt), and Jon notices that his wounds appear to be smoking. From this he will be reborn (amidst smoke and salt) and his Lightbringer will be Ghost somehow. Not sure how Ghost becomes Lightbringer or if Jon needs to stab Ghost thru the heart to create Lightbringer.

I don't think Jon will have to stab Ghost through the heart to create Lightbringer because Ghost is apart of Jon, and if he kills Ghost then it will be like killing apart of himself.

[yolkboy]

I don't think Jon will have to stab Ghost through the heart to create Lightbringer because Ghost is apart of Jon, and if he kills Ghost then it will be like killing apart of himself.

Well that's the essence of tremendous sacrifice.

Although, i think I agree that it won't be Ghost.

[profilebegone]

Guys: the dragon has three heads. There are three dragons. Three is big here.

There are three characters who have:

a) been reborn in some fashion under the bleeding star with salt and smoke

B) are third children, whose mothers died in childbirth

c) killed their lovers

This seems like it's getting pretty obvious at this point.

[LadyMondragon]

I actually brought this up in a different thread.

I came across an interesting line while doing my second run through of ASoS (armed with a highlighter, a pen, and a notebook to keep all of the little nuances straight). Before Dany buys the Unsullied, she has a dream. I present you with a passage from page 375

That night she dreamt she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent.

Now... there are a few things to consider. Targaryens are known to have prophetic dreams. Could this dream foreshadow Dany's true purpose as AAR? Or is she dreaming of what could have been if Rhaegar had not been killed by Robert. I think the choice of the "battle" happening at the Trident could be telling. I tend to believe the former, myself. I truly believe Dany is AAR.

Maybe that is a stretch, but that line alone has been bugging me for a few days now.

[King of Winters]

Now... there are a few things to consider. Targaryens are known to have prophetic dreams. Could this dream foreshadow Dany's true purpose as AAR? Or is she dreaming of what could have been if Rhaegar had not been killed by Robert. I think the choice of the "battle" happening at the Trident could be telling. I tend to believe the former, myself. I truly believe Dany is AAR.

Maybe that is a stretch, but that line alone has been bugging me for a few days now.

I remember discussing that passage with some other posters and we thought that its too obvious to be Dany fighting The Others and being AAR/TPTWP, and that it's actually Dany fighting either Stannis or (F)Aegon as it says "the Usurper's rebel host" and, in her eyes, Stannis and (F)Aegon are both rebels. It could be Stannis because they're armoured in ice, which could be Stannis' host after they've come down from The North.

[KingInTheCave]

If GRRM is true to his word that this is not a cliche fantasy story, then why should AAR be one of the good characters anyway?

The one thing that would make the SOIAF the greatest story of all time (for me at least) is if Roose Bolton turned out to be AAR.

I agree. When Jon was stabbed in the end of DoD, Bowen Marsh is crying when he stabs him (tears = salt), and Jon notices that his wounds appear to be smoking. From this he will be reborn (amidst smoke and salt) and his Lightbringer will be Ghost somehow. Not sure how Ghost becomes Lightbringer or if Jon needs to stab Ghost thru the heart to create Lightbringer.

This means that he died amidst salt an smoke, not reborn. And his wounds are not really smoking, smoke implies fire. So it's not him.

But let's look at Roose Bolton. He was reborn as warden in the north when he killed Robb with a thrust to the heart. There was smoke because it's a feast, and salt because it's a feast and Catelyn was crying. Lightbringer is the sword that killed Robb of course.

[LadyMondragon]

I remember discussing that passage with some other posters and we thought that its too obvious to be Dany fighting The Others and being AAR/TPTWP, and that it's actually Dany fighting either Stannis or (F)Aegon as it says "the Usurper's rebel host" and, in her eyes, Stannis and (F)Aegon are both rebels. It could be Stannis because they're armoured in ice, which could be Stannis' host after they've come down from The North.

See this is why I love these forums... I have a place to discuss these things because no one I know is as involved in this as I am lol

Back to the point... Your interpretation is more convincing than mine.

The thing that troubles (for lack of a better word) me is the whole "armored in ice" thing. I understand that Stannis is currently in the North in a nasty snowstorm but why would his army be armored in ice? They are not specifically from the North so the cold/winter/ice can't really be attributed to them. The ice would hinder his army more than help it enough to be able to use it as armor. I know I am reading that a little too literally but as the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree has shown us (and the whole series for that matter) is that the houses, no matter how great or minor, believe themselves to be the literal "incarnation" of their arms. Starks are referred to as wolves, Lannisters as lions, Targaryens as dragons... why couldn't the ice armor be literal?

Does she even know about (F)Aegon? Haven't gotten to my reread of ADWD yet.

Obviously this is all speculation and I really don't know who AAR/TPTWP is or could be. All I have is speculation LOL