Manderlay Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Before taking that chance there was a period of at least 6 months from Robert's death in which Stannis did nothing. The question I'm really trying to ask is Why didn't Stannis try to ally with Robb Stark as soon as he hear Ned had been taken prisoner(or in other words Lannisters had declared war on Starks)Well yes that makes sense, if Stannis had sent a letter to Robb as soon as Ned was imprisoned, that would have been better. IIRC Stannis had closed off Dragonstone, no vessels leaving and such, he would have gotten that news a bit late, but I think Mel would have played a part and told him that he would find success at SE by taking Renly's forces, Stannis did listen to her council and therein lies the mistake, I am king's man I mistrust Mel just like Davos does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Alternatively: Stannlis approaches Ned after Jon Arryn's death and tells him about Cersei's treason and asks him to tell Robert. Or he confides in the then Master of Laws Renly and together they approach Ned.He could have stopped the war entirely - I think he could have at least warned Robert. Sure Robert might not have believed him but it's still better than to sit around waiting for your brother's wife to kill your brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manderlay Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 He could have stopped the war entirely - I think he could have at least warned Robert.Sure Robert might not have believed him but it's still better than to sit around waiting for your brother's wife to kill your brother.Well in a way Stannis did try to warn Robert by telling Jon Arryn, and I don't think Stannis owed his brothers anything, he was right to leave KL for his own safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Well yes that makes sense, if Stannis had sent a letter to Robb as soon as Ned was imprisoned, that would have been better. IIRC Stannis had closed off Dragonstone, no vessels leaving and such, he would have gotten that news a bit late, but I think Mel would have played a part and told him that he would find success at SE by taking Renly's forces, Stannis did listen to her council and therein lies the mistake, I am king's man I mistrust Mel just like Davos does.The island was closed but birds could still reach it. In fact in the ACOK prologue, Cressen shows Shireen the white raven which had just come from oldtown announcing Summer is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkDragon Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 What was Stannis doing in agot? Grinding teeth and taking names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Well in a way Stannis did try to warn Robert by telling Jon Arryn, and I don't think Stannis owed his brothers anything, he was right to leave KL for his own safety.Leaving your brother to get murdered by his own wife is cold, even for Stannis.He does warns Jon Arynn and then runs away not even bothering to warn the next fool walking into that viper's pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 He just sits and waits for months doing nothing.Exactly. The answer to your question of what was Stannis doing during the time period of the first book is: hiding. He discovered the truth with Jon Arryn and once Arryn was killed he fled and hid on Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manderlay Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Leaving your brother to get murdered by his own wife is cold, even for Stannis.He does warns Jon Arynn and then runs away not even bothering to warn the next fool walking into that viper's pit.Well its not like Stannis brothers cared for him, so why does that make just Stannis wrong, he did his duty to Robert and SE was taken away from him and given to Renly because of his reputation (Stannis was not loved by the many lords in westeros), the whole thing about Dragonstone needs a strong man was BS, there are enough strong men in westeros that Robert could have named castellan and later Dragonstone could have been given to Renly when he came of age, Stannis's brothers should have stood by him even if he was not loved by most lords in westeros, instead they never cared for him, they had a duty to each other as brothers, the views of the lords of westeros be dammed, if Robert and Renly never cared for Stannis, why is Stannis wrong for not caring for them, as I said he didn't owe them anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Well its not like Stannis brothers cared for him, so why does that make just Stannis wrong, he did his duty to Robert and SE was taken away from him and given to Renly because of his reputation (Stannis was not loved by the many lords in westeros), the whole thing about Dragonstone needs a strong man was BS, there are enough strong men in westeros that Robert could have named castellan and later Dragonstone could have been given to Renly when he came of age, Stannis's brothers should have stood by him even if he was not loved by most lords in westeros, instead they never cared for him, they had a duty to each other as brothers, the views of the lords of westeros be dammed, if Robert and Renly never cared for Stannis, why is Stannis wrong for not caring for them, as I said he didn't owe them anything.Goodness! Is that all one sentence?Stannis was given Dragonstone because it is the seat of the heir to the throne and that was the title Stannis was given when Robert assumed the throne. Giving it to Renly would have been the true insult. Once Joffrey was of age, he would get it as Robert's heir and Storm's End would have most likely gone to Tommen, the son of he eldest son (Robert) as is the custom of Westerosi nobles. So all the bickering over keeps is rather moot and just another thing for Stannis to be bitter about.As for what Stannis owed his brother, perhaps not very much. But as to what Stannis owed his king, it would be his loyalty and fealty. Just as Stannis now demands from the lords of Westeros to give him. Under the umbrella of fealty is allegiance, faithfulness and unwavering support. Fleeing when your king needs you most is not showing fealty and it may be that Stannis is having such a hard time getting the lords of Westeros to support him because of his cowardly deed in Robert's darkest hour. You reap what you sow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerchu Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Grinding his teeth for the most part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 If Stannis took Kings Landing, he would have been ousted by Tywin or Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin king Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Exactly. The answer to your question of what was Stannis doing during the time period of the first book is: hiding. He discovered the truth with Jon Arryn and once Arryn was killed he fled and hid on Dragonstone.He seems to have been hiding from Ned too, as he didn't respond to any of the Ravens Ned sent him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 He seems to have been hiding from Ned too, as he didn't respond to any of the Ravens Ned sent him.Too true. Westeros' rightful king that all should bend the knee for. Hiding at home until his red witch makes him feel brave and strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Say, do you think he deliberately abandoned Robert in order to seize the throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Say, do you think he deliberately abandoned Robert in order to seize the throne?Going back further still, I wondered what made him start looking into Cersei's children to begin with? Did he spot Cersei and her brother doing something less than brotherly or was he looking for a reason to sieze the throne?Either way, knowing the truth, fleeing the capitol without telling a soul, standing by quietly while Ned was killed for having the balls to do what he couldn't and then sending ravens with "the truth" to all of Westeros makes him look extremely self serving and puts a doubt on his claim from the very start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Going back further still, I wondered what made him start looking into Cersei's children to begin with? Did he spot Cersei and her brother doing something less than brotherly or was he looking for a reason to sieze the throne?Either way, knowing the truth, fleeing the capitol without telling a soul, standing by quietly while Ned was killed for having the balls to do what he couldn't and then sending ravens with "the truth" to all of Westeros makes him look extremely self serving and puts a doubt on his claim from the very start.I think Varys whispered the truth to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 I think Varys whispered the truth to him?But why would Varys point him in the direction that would ultimately lead to Stannis on the throne? As difficult as Stannis is, he would have worked hard for calm and peace in the realm not the chaos that Varys desired.(when I first typed this, I wrote a typo of peach instead of peace :laugh: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 But why would Varys point him in the direction that would ultimately lead to Stannis on the throne? As difficult as Stannis is, he would have worked hard for calm and peace in the realm not the chaos that Varys desired.Stannis on the throne would have resulted in chaos."Stannis is no friend of yours, nor of mine. Even his brothers can scarcely stomach him. The man is iron, hard and unyielding. He'll give us a new Hand and a new council, for a certainty. No doubt he'll thank you for handing him the crown, but he won't love you for it. And his ascent will mean war. Stannis cannot rest easy on the throne until Cersei and her bastards are dead. Do you think Lord Tywin will sit idly while his daughter's head is measured for a spike? Casterly Rock will rise, and not alone. Robert found it in him to pardon men who served King Aerys, so long as they did him fealty. Stannis is less forgiving. He will not have forgotten the siege of StormEnd, and the lords Tyrell and Redwyne dare not. Eery man who fought beneath the dragon banner or rose with Balon Greyjoy will have good cause to fear. Seat Stannis on the Iron Throne and I promise you, the realm will bleed." I believe Petyr Baelish on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Stannis on the throne would have resulted in chaos."Stannis is no friend of yours, nor of mine. Even his brothers can scarcely stomach him. The man is iron, hard and unyielding. He'll give us a new Hand and a new council, for a certainty. No doubt he'll thank you for handing him the crown, but he won't love you for it. And his ascent will mean war. Stannis cannot rest easy on the throne until Cersei and her bastards are dead. Do you think Lord Tywin will sit idly while his daughter's head is measured for a spike? Casterly Rock will rise, and not alone. Robert found it in him to pardon men who served King Aerys, so long as they did him fealty. Stannis is less forgiving. He will not have forgotten the siege of StormEnd, and the lords Tyrell and Redwyne dare not. Eery man who fought beneath the dragon banner or rose with Balon Greyjoy will have good cause to fear. Seat Stannis on the Iron Throne and I promise you, the realm will bleed." I believe Petyr Baelish on that.While you may be right about that (I said he would work for calm not that I believe he would achieve it) I do want to point out that Baelish had no desire to see Stannis on the throne as it would mean he would be out of a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Stannis on the throne would have resulted in chaos."Stannis is no friend of yours, nor of mine. Even his brothers can scarcely stomach him. The man is iron, hard and unyielding. He'll give us a new Hand and a new council, for a certainty. No doubt he'll thank you for handing him the crown, but he won't love you for it. And his ascent will mean war. Stannis cannot rest easy on the throne until Cersei and her bastards are dead. Do you think Lord Tywin will sit idly while his daughter's head is measured for a spike? Casterly Rock will rise, and not alone. Robert found it in him to pardon men who served King Aerys, so long as they did him fealty. Stannis is less forgiving. He will not have forgotten the siege of StormEnd, and the lords Tyrell and Redwyne dare not. Eery man who fought beneath the dragon banner or rose with Balon Greyjoy will have good cause to fear. Seat Stannis on the Iron Throne and I promise you, the realm will bleed." I believe Petyr Baelish on that.I don't. Petyr is a known liar and Stannis would pardon those who fought for Aerys considering he knew that most of them were simply doing their duty as bannermen and lords.He even states that choosing between Robert or Aerys was the most difficult decision of his life.The man won't punish others for doing their duty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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