Varys is working for, or with The Great Other

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

This is the first time I have posted a topic, and I hope it has not been covered in too many other threads. I have only really read from the WOW section of the forum.

No-one really seems sure exactly what Varys and Illyrio are up to. In GOT, when Arya is hiding behind the dragon skulls, they say that they are "not ready". this was before autumn had started

Varys tells Tyrion that when he was cut, his parts were burnt in a blue flame, same colour as the others' eyes. Could this ceremony have been a way of binding him to the others?

I think it is when Illyrio is talking to tyrion, he says that their long term plan is control of the finances of westeros, as Master of coin; but surely Varys has been in a position to influence who this would be without the need to start wars all over the 7 kingdoms, and actually reduce the value of their prize by having half of it in hock to the iron bank, and most of the rest burnt and pillaged.

Their original plan seems to have been to bring two dragons across the water to start a second dance, and cause endless chaos that way. The war of the 5 kings started before the white wakers had really got going, so the ensuing disorder was not going to be enough to keep the way clear for the aftermath of the fall of the wall, or so they thought at the time of their meeting in the dungeons in GOT. As it turned out the situation has played into their hands, with the conflict still going on 4 years or so later. The only places so far not weakened by war are Dorne, (siding with (F)aegon) most of the reach( under attack from the Iron born, possibly in collusion with Illyrio - Euron was gone for a long time?), and The Vale, which a lot of people seem to think is the most likely landing place for Dany. These are being thrown into turmoil just as winter is about to move South.

United under one ruler the kingdoms could probably withstand the long night a lot better than with the harvests of the riverlands, which must have the most fertile land in Westeros, having been burnt with no-one to tend the feilds, Starks removed from Winterfell and the watch in meltdown.

Janos Slynt could have had contact with Varys before he left for the wall, so it is possible that he influenced his discussions with the plotters againt Jon. (this part of the theory doesn't hold much water i know)

Finally, Varys has been AWOL from Kings Landing for months, yet he suddenly reappears at exactly the same time as the White Raven announcing the start of Winter... Coincedence?....possibly

Altogether, it looks as though they are now ready.

I would have to presume that Illyrio thought that the eggs were not going to be hatched, because they will probably put a spanner in his works, as did (one of?) his spy(ies) eating poisoned locusts

i would be glad to hear your thoughts, there are probably a lot of things I have missed for and against

[Nite's King]

Just.....no.

[THE DOC]

nah, i suggest you re-read the books mate, Varys defo has a back story that will unveil his true alligince but not to the others!!

more likely a targ,blackfryer or he maybe an agent from the easten citys(doubtful)

[gougef]

HELL^no

[Teren_Kanan]

There are no gods, not in any sense that will ever be proven. There are religions, and people who believe in gods, but "gods" will never play a direct role in any of the books. There will be magic that people claim come from their gods, that's about it.

R'hllor, Great Other, Old Gods, God of Many Faces, the Seven. None of them are going to be proven or disproved by the end of the series.

[Bob the Fiddler]

I never got the hint that Varys was looking for war. I think he sees his role as finding and supporting the faction most suitable to rule. The text suggests that he sees the Targaryens as that faction. Clearly, he does not support the Lannister faction as he killed Kevan. But he did not kill Kevan Lannister to support the Others. He killed him to set the table for a Targaryen Restoration.

I think your theory is flawed because your primary assumption has little textual support. You assume Varys is "bound" to the others because a sorcerer used him for a ritual. There isn't much from the books other than that one scene to support the theory.

[Where Boars Glow]

The only possible connection between Varys and The great other would be BloodRaven. The original master of whispers. Who also may have a connection to the wizard that cut Varys.

The only possible conclusion....just like everyone else Varys is a secret targaryen sired by Lord Bloodraven.

[Pharnavaziani]

I never got the hint that Varys was looking for war. I think he sees his role as finding and supporting the faction most suitable to rule. The text suggests that he sees the Targaryens as that faction.

But didn't Varys help feed Aerys descent to madness and paranoia?

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

But didn't Varys help feed Aerys descent to madness and paranoia?

That was Ser Barristan's take on the situation, but I would argue that Varys was simply doing what the king of the real hired him to do. Rhaegar was looking to call a counsel and remove his father. Varys counseled Aerys not to open his gates to Tywin. He was right on both counts. I guess the truth would only fuel the delusions of a paranoid psychopath.

As to the OP, Varys' hates all things mystical b/c of what happened to him. I doubt he cut his own private parts off and burned them. His hole mission in life is the elimination of the dark arts.

[The Real Summer Islander]

I never got the hint that Varys was looking for war. I think he sees his role as finding and supporting the faction most suitable to rule. The text suggests that he sees the Targaryens as that faction. Clearly, he does not support the Lannister faction as he killed Kevan. But he did not kill Kevan Lannister to support the Others. He killed him to set the table for a Targaryen Restoration.

I think your theory is flawed because your primary assumption has little textual support. You assume Varys is "bound" to the others because a sorcerer used him for a ritual. There isn't much from the books other than that one scene to support the theory.

game of thrones where arya is in the KL dungeons chasing a cat.. varys and illiryo are basically plotting the war between starks and lannisters.

[Amoracchius]

game of thrones where arya is in the KL dungeons chasing a cat.. varys and illiryo are basically plotting the war between starks and lannisters.

Not quite, IIRC. They are discussing how the Starks and the Lannisters are on the verge of war. This leads to the question of whether they need to rush their plans into action or attempt to delay. The Stark/Lannister war was not their plan, it was something affecting their plan.

[the sword in the night]

There are no gods, not in any sense that will ever be proven. There are religions, and people who believe in gods, but "gods" will never play a direct role in any of the books. There will be magic that people claim come from their gods, that's about it.

R'hllor, Great Other, Old Gods, God of Many Faces, the Seven. None of them are going to be proven or disproved by the end of the series.

Really? I think that you may be pushing your own atheistic agenda here bud. This is not a reality-based piece of work. (FWIW, there is no way to disprove the existence of God in our world either, but I digress)

Beric being revived was only possible because Thoros asked the LoL to help. The shadowbabies of Melisandre. The burning of the leeches. The CotF and the 3 eyed crow with the weirwood magic.

Yes magic exists, but the people who understand it and are capable of using it seem to believe in the gods consistently, and attribute these magical occurrences to them. I understand the point that you're trying to make, but it's not fact-based. All signs point GRRM's gods playing pivotal roles (Ice and Fire, duh!). The line between magic and the gods is non-existent in ASOIAF. They are one in the same.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

If Varys and Illyrio are not looking for war, then why are they sending two separate factions into westeros at the same time, and giving them pariahs as advisors who have committed crimes that are considered just about the worst possible to Westerosi society: a man who sold people into slavery, and a double kinslayer and kingslayer?

I would not expect the noble houses of westeros to welcome the Dothraki with open arms. It seems more likely that the Targaryans are being set up to fail.

I read the scene in the dungeons as not being ready for war yet, but it was part of their original plan

[Lord Freypie]

Supporting dragons = supporting Fire = being against the Great Other, imo.

Only point I agree, is l think that Varys is more aware of the magic/prophetic big picture than some think, and do support Aegon because they think he is the promised prince and really believes he's serving the realm doing that.

It's not incompatible with Aegon Blackfyre theory, as it's just a question of interpretation of prophecies.

[Brother Seamus]

Not quite, IIRC. They are discussing how the Starks and the Lannisters are on the verge of war. This leads to the question of whether they need to rush their plans into action or attempt to delay. The Stark/Lannister war was not their plan, it was something affecting their plan.

I never got the hint that Varys was looking for war. I think he sees his role as finding and supporting the faction most suitable to rule. The text suggests that he sees the Targaryens as that faction. Clearly, he does not support the Lannister faction as he killed Kevan. But he did not kill Kevan Lannister to support the Others. He killed him to set the table for a Targaryen Restoration.

Not quite, IIRC. They are discussing how the Starks and the Lannisters are on the verge of war. This leads to the question of whether they need to rush their plans into action or attempt to delay. The Stark/Lannister war was not their plan, it was something affecting their plan.

I think it's pretty clear that the aim of the Illyrio/Varyl conspiracy is a Targaryen restoration. The mystery is why. Many think it's really a plot to put a Blackfyre on the throne, perhaps because Varys is really a Blackfyre. I haven't read the Dunk and Egg stories, so to me this doesn't make sense b/c it's too far afield from the story in the novels. But who knows.

Maybe, as Varys has said more than once, he is acting for the good of the realm, and believes the only viable political system capable of bringing order, prosperity and security to westeros is the Targaryen dynasty. I'm skeptical (not least b/c this doesn't address Illyrio's motive, and he's the financier of this venture), but it's possible.

As a variation on the preceding, maybe it's just Varys' sense of loyalty to the Targaryens. But again, really? And again, what about Illyrio?

I think it has to do with money, trade, and economics, and specifically the rivalry between the merchants of Pentos and some of the other free cities (e.g. Myr, Lys; IIRC those two suddenly resolved a war and no one knows why, correct?) and those of Braavos.

There are no gods, not in any sense that will ever be proven. There are religions, and people who believe in gods, but "gods" will never play a direct role in any of the books. There will be magic that people claim come from their gods, that's about it.

R'hllor, Great Other, Old Gods, God of Many Faces, the Seven. None of them are going to be proven or disproved by the end of the series.

I agree. I think this is partly based on comments by GRRM, but I also think it's implicit in the books so far we'll never have some god come riding into battle.