Reconciling GRRM's The Ice Dragon as Canon

[LordStoneheart]

I did use Google to search this topic, but didn't find anything quite like it all in one post. Apologies for treading old ground if one just like it is hidden around her.

It is a debated point about The Ice Dragon being set in Westeros/The World of Ice and Fire. Some of this is based on the story’s blurb-description which could have just been an assumption by the publishers. The story is copyrighted to 1980, many years before aGoT was published. To me, this says the story came from the same source of inspiration that begat ASoIaF, but doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the same world. Most who have read the series and the story will agree they are different. But since they come from the same muse, so to speak, I think there is room for an interpretation for The Ice Dragon to fit within aSoIaF canon.

(Note: I do not believe this story is what we consider canon, but I will be treating it as canon for the sake of this interpretation.)

We begin the story with a girl named Adara (similar to Ashara) who liked winter because that’s when the Ice Dragon comes. “She was never quite sure whether it was the cold that brought the ice dragon or the ice dragon that brought the cold.” This is very similar to the concept of the Others, who either come with the cold or bring the cold. Those two lines are unmistakably connected. She has a brother named Geoff (similar sounding to Joffrey). Adara was born during a harsh winter in which her mother died, apparently from the cold, and somehow that same cold became part of Adara. “The winter had touched her.” To me, this echoes the ranger from the aGoT prologue that says something like “I’ve had the winter in me.”

Adara is described as beautiful, but in different strange way, with pale blue skin, blond hair, and bright blue eyes. This is similar is description to certain ASoIaF themes, such as the Others, the Night King’s wife whether she was Wight or Other, and Daenerys/Valyrian blonde hair. Adara is not a typical child, for when she steps on a nail she doesn’t cry and tells her father rather calmly she hurt herself. I can’t think of any specific character in the series that is unemotional to this extent, but I do sort of think of tough little Arya at this point.

And then we have one of the most telling moments of the story that most fans will recognize. Adara describes an inn at the crossroads that her sister works at with that exact wording. Her sister comes back giggling with gossip from all over their kingdom, similar to the many events at Westeros’ Inn at the Crossroads. Then again, I’m sure a crossroad would be a logical place for inns in most fantasy worlds, but in The Ice Dragon the road is called the king’s road also.

Adara talks about her Uncle Hal, a dragonrider in service of the king. He visits in the summer. The wording here is of some interest. “Dragons cannot stand the cold, so when winter fell Hal and his wing would fly south.” Winterfell. Maybe that’s grasping, but GRRM is suprisingly great with little details so that could be something to note. Adara mentions overhearing a conversation between Hal and her father. Hal tell her father to treat her better, which her father has trouble with because he blames her for his wife’s death. This is a parallel to Tyrion and Tywin to me, even though that’s a much more loveless case. The parallel is evident though because of the wording: “I remember it was for her that Beth had to die.” Either Tywin or Cersei or both say something similar about Joanna dying for Tyrion to live.

The next phrasing of note brings Old Nan and Bran to mind. When Hal accuses her father of not loving her like his other children, he says “Ah, Hal, I loved her best of all, my little winter child.” Old Nan calls Bran her “sweet summer child.” Interesting little contrast that fits in with the Ice and Fire duality that Martin likes to use. In the winter Adara plays for hours in the snow, completely immune to hypothermia. She also loves to build ice castles, a possible precursor to Sansa Stark. That’s two Stark daughters Adara has some small similarities too, not surprising since House Stark is regarded as one of the Ice parts of the series. There are a species of animal called ice lizards in the story that seem to be similar to the Others. If handled too roughly, they break like icicles. If held too long, they melt.

In the winter, a large Ice Dragon visits Adara. When one is seen, it’s generally a bad omen of a long winter. This fits in with the irregular seasons of Westeros. Five times the size of a horse is apparently tiny next to the ice dragon. Everything about the dragon seems to be ice, its skin, its eyes, its teeth. It’s doesn’t seem to be biologically realistic as Daenerys’ dragons (yes, I know, dragons aren’t real, but her dragons do seem reptilian.) Perhaps we could say Adara’s ice dragon is ice made flesh, even more evident than asoiaf’s dragons that are fire made flesh. It even breathes cold, which Adara describes as “breathing death into the world.” GRRM described the Ice and Fire theme to his novels in a great little sentence: “Both’ll kill ya.” While true, I can’t help thinking that he puts more emphasis on the ice being the killer than the fire. Dany’s dragons are quite deadly, but we generally route for her and many including herself see her as a savior. Perhaps it’s just because we haven’t seen any relatable or conscionable reason for the Others, but they are generally just Ice Demons out to kill. Fire dragons were used to bring death to Westeros during the War of Conquest, but the dragons themselves weren’t attacking randomly. The Others haven’t been portrayed with an endgame yet, so as of now we can assume they are out to kill. Time will tell for that.

Adara begins to ride the ice dragon more and more, and each year the winters become longer. No one knows about her trips, and they become all the more fantastic when we hear from Uncle Hal that ice dragons are untamable. Those who have tried froze to death. Ice dragons seem to be more of a force of nature than a beast of burden to be interacted with. This shows that Adara really does have some incarnation of winter inside of her. Again, this echoes the Wights/Night King’s wife. Also, could it add to the theory that the Others are humans or Children of the Forest that have been corrupted by ice magic?

Hal and Adara’s father John have a fight about selling their farm. After the winter ends, a different kingdom that also has dragons will most likely overtake the land and the kingdom that Hal works for won’t be able to hold them off. To me, this brings to mind the Dance of the Dragons. There are many casualties and eventually Hal comes back, begging them to leave. The enemy’s dragons will arrive within three days. John still refuses but tries to get Hal to take the children. His dragon is too weak for the Geoff and Teri who are full grown, but Adara is small enough to go with. She refuses and runs away. They try to find her but she keeps away. Soon after, she witnesses her uncle burned alive in a dragon fight. Adara runs away to one of her favorite caves and finds the ice dragon. Here’s where the most telling thing is that suggests this world is connected, at least in inspiration, to Westeros/Planetos.

The summer is coming back fast when she sees the dragon, and it is starting to weaken. Adara says to the dragon “Hurry, dragon, take me away, take me to the land of always-winter.” As we all know, the Land of Always Winter is the name of the northern most reaches of Westeros, it even says so in the Lands of Ice and Fire maps. But the dragon does not take her to the land of always-winter. He starts to, but instead she makes it turn back when she hears her father scream. Upon returning to the house she and the ice dragon battle three dragons and their dragon riders. The ice dragon emerges victorious but it dies and leaves behind a pond of water that seemed very old. The Others also melt like this, but so far we’ve only seen it done by dragonglass.

What’s interesting here that has been pointed out by others before is the theme of three dragons/dragonriders. It could connect, parallel, predict, or just be a precursor to Dany and Rhaegar’s “dragon has three heads” mythos. The fact that both the ice dragons and the fire dragons die could show that Dany and her dragons will be the foil of the Others but also not survive the encounter. If her dreams are to be trusted completely, if she’s Rhaegar on the Trident fighting an army of ice, we know what happens to Rhaegar, even if she does have dragon. That is entirely too speculative though. One strange detail from the story is that her sister Teri is gang raped. It’s not subtle, for Adara describes seeing one run out bare-chested while trying to get back into his pants. Even more brutally is that their father was nailed to the wall to watch while they took turns with his daughter. Is this really a kid’s story?

The story ends with the family recuperating in the south and getting better. Teri gets her spirit back and marries, which is a more subtle way of saying she mentally recovered from the gang rape. Her father has weak hands from the nails but remained mostly strong. They eventually make it back to the farm after the foreign capital is burned by the king’s dragons. Adara no longer has the winter in her and she’s just like other girls, now able to connect with her father more. She no longer picks up the ice lizards for fear of killing them.

So to treat this story as canon, we have to assume Adara lives somewhere in the North, and her uncle Hal is from King’s Landing in the time of the Dance of the Dragons. Not exactly reconcilable is that the other dragon kingdom is described as foreign and to the north. The dragonriders and king could be a precursor the Targaryens.Adara having the winter in her could be analogous to Others or the Night’s King’s wife, though she’s not evil, just mostly emotionless. The winter leaving Adara might be a way of saying the Others, if certain theories can hold true, are “curable” so to speak. Definitely fightable.

That’s my observations with the story. If you have anything else to offer, I’d love to see it.

[Morienthar]

Good observations,I'd love it if GRRM says he did set in Westeros.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Takeaways.

1. The Ice Dragon story is interesting but not sure it can be read directly into ASOIAF.

2. Having said that, look at the outcome: An Ice Dragon defeats three Fire Dragons. Well gee whiz.

3. I dispute the fact that either fire or ice is any better or worse than the other.

4. I strongly dispute the fact that everyone is in general rooting for Dany or sees her as a savior. :P

[LordStoneheart]

Takeaways.

1. The Ice Dragon story is interesting but not sure it can be read directly into ASOIAF.

2. Having said that, look at the outcome: An Ice Dragon defeats three Fire Dragons. Well gee whiz.

3. I dispute the fact that either fire or ice is any better or worse than the other.

4. I strongly dispute the fact that everyone is in general rooting for Dany or sees her as a savior. :P

Maybe not "everyone in general" supports Dany, but "generally, Dany is seen as a good person/savior." She gets POV for a reason. But she's the fire to the Others' Ice. "Both'll kill ya." I'm just saying that we've seen Ice worse than Fire so far because we haven't seen any personification for the Others, but we're inside Dany's head and there are many who want to see her succeed.

[GallowsKnight]

I'd like to Reconcile GRRM's "The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr" with ASOIAF. In that we have an evil set of Gods known as the Seven who trap other god in different dimensions.

(One thing I noticed from Dreamsongs, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, but GRRM is constantly resusing names and concepts)

[LordStoneheart]

I'd like to Reconcile GRRM's "The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr" with ASOIAF. In that we have an evil set of Gods known as the Seven who trap other god in different dimensions.

(One thing I noticed from Dreamsongs, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, but GRRM is constantly resusing names and concepts)

I'll take that as a challenge if I don't see you do a similar one soon.

And I have noticed his name trends too, like Robb and Lyanna from A Song for Lya. I do it a lot with my own fiction.

[GallowsKnight]

I'll take that as a challenge if I don't see you do a similar one soon.

And I have noticed his name trends too, like Robb and Lyanna from A Song for Lya. I do it a lot with my own fiction.

Yeah I'm powerfully too lazy to do that, so it might be up to you. My personal crackpot theory was that Kaydar = R'holl'r.

[Lord Stark17]

Is there not a lake near the wall or am i mistaken? I looked on some maps but could not see one. I though I had read about one at some point, maybe that lake could be the one made by the ice dragon.

[Daendrew]

Is there not a lake near the wall or am i mistaken? I looked on some maps but could not see one. I though I had read about one at some point, maybe that lake could be the one made by the ice dragon.

"The road beneath the Wall was as dark and cold as the belly of an ice dragon and as twisty as a serpent".- A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 39, Jon.

"The wind was gusting, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan had told when Jon was a boy” -A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 35, Jon.

“The wind was blowing from the east along the Wall, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan used to tell.” A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 49, Jon.

[LordStoneheart]

I remember this thread.. sweet, sweet thread... I HATED IT!!!!

nah, but I do cringe in embarrassment at certain threads of mine that resurface. :D