Nights Watch Vows - The Power of the Words [Probably will contain Spoilers] [Long Post]

[MissingNo]

I think the words of the NW vow contain considerable power, some of this has been active shown such as reciting the words being the key to passing through the gate under the Nightfort and other are more subtle. There have been theories that the watch is "wielded" by Jon as LC and is a representation of the (real) sword lightbringer due to the following:

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

However I believe it is not that the watch itself contains the power, but how could they be? They are so few against all the power of the others.

My theory is that the power of lightbringer is contained in the words of the vow themselves.

In the story of the forging of the sword IIRC the the sword splits are breaks when tempered the first two times after 30 and 50 days and is formed perfectly after 100 days of folding the metal and at the sacrifice of Nissa Nissa.

This relates to the breaking of Jon's vows, his vows are broken and reformed twice, once when he goes AWOL as far as moletown and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death and again with ygitte I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. The third time he attempts to breaks his vows by swearing to hunt down Ramsay the Nightswatch takes no part . He is however prevented from doing so by his betrayers and as a result fulfills his vows It shall not end until my death and I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

So If the vow is the forging process it was broken twice, and on the third time fulfilled/completed at the cost of a life (potentially if Jon is dead) . He was on the verge of breaking his vows for the third time, and no doubt when LB was tempered for the third time it was on the verge of breaking. IMO there are many evident parallels.

At many point throughout the series the power of vows is demonstrated, such as the freys breaking the bread and salt tradition, which could be seen as a vow, who will no doubt suffer in the upcoming books. Another is Jaimes breaking of kingsguard (killing Aerys) and knights vows (throwing Bran=the innocent from a window), as a result he looses his hand but is given the chance of redemption by fulfilling the vow of trying to return Caetlyn's daughters.

I think this supports the theory of the power of swearing vows.

Thanks if you read this whole mammoth post, any opinions?

Edit: Spelling and English

[Mladen]

So, you are equalizing Jon with both Lightbringer and Last Hero? My opinion is that Jon will wield NW (like a Lightbringer) against Others.

[MissingNo]

So, you are equalizing Jon with both Lightbringer and Last Hero? My opinion is that Jon will wield NW (like a Lightbringer) against Others.

I'm kinda under the impression the AA and the PtwP prophesies and the Last hero story will all be fulfilled by one person, Jon being the strongest candidate. I'm sure I have seen a convincing thread about how the first AA = the last hero. Can't remember where exactly. :P

[jon stark I]

After reading Bran and Sams journey under Nightfort I thought the orginal words were what Sam said.I think all those other words about glory, wife, children are added after certain events that happened in time that affected NW.

[Mladen]

I'm kinda under the impression the AA and the PtwP prophesies and the Last hero story will all be fulfilled by one person, Jon being the strongest candidate. I'm sure I have seen a convincing thread about how the first AA = the last hero. Can't remember where exactly. :P

Azor Ahai and Last Hero are the one person, differently named in different cultures. You missed my point. Are you equalizing the sword and the weilder? And, yes, most of us is convinced that AAR/PTWP will be oine person - Jon.

[MissingNo]

So, you are equalizing Jon with both Lightbringer and Last Hero? My opinion is that Jon will wield NW (like a Lightbringer) against Others.

Sure as LC he wields the watch, but the similarities end there. How can the watch taken on the full force of the others, even from the top of the Wall? Anyway the watch is broken, how do you think the wildlings will react to Jons stabbing? Its the spark to ignite the fire there wont be a watch by the start of tWoW, chaos will ensue and the Wildlings will slaughter the betrayers, the loyal watch will attack the wildlings. The Watch are out numbered and will die.

[MissingNo]

After reading Bran and Sams journey under Nightfort I thought the orginal words were what Sam said.I think all those other words about glory, wife, children are added after certain events that happened in time that affected NW.

This is apparent with many things in the series, old traditions hold strong but are practiced differently and their meanings are forgotten. I think the wife part is as old as the wall however, as it prevents the men of the NW from going the way of Craster and sacrificing to the others. Otherwise its really pointless because if men of the NW could have families there would be no shortage of men to man the wall as the sons would follow in the footsteps of their fathers.

[Mladen]

Sure as LC he wields the watch, but the similarities end there. How can the watch taken on the full force of the others, even from the top of the Wall? Anyway the watch is broken, how do you think the wildlings will react to Jons stabbing? Its the spark to ignite the fire there wont be a watch by the start of tWoW, chaos will ensue and the Wildlings will slaughter the betrayers, the loyal watch will attack the wildlings. The Watch are out numbered and will die.

The true men of NW will remain as they were. Ater Jon is resurrected in style of Azor Ahai, IMO, he will put them in order and prepare them to fight. You forget that Wall is enchanted by powerful magic of CotF and First Men, and that Others will have great problems going through Wall. Jon`s new army consisted of NW men will be his sword in fighting Others. The chaos is at the Wall at the moment, but once Jon is revived, I doubt it will last for long.

[MissingNo]

Azor Ahai and Last Hero are the one person, differently named in different cultures. You missed my point. Are you equalizing the sword and the weilder? And, yes, most of us is convinced that AAR/PTWP will be oine person - Jon.

I'm stating that if Jon is resurrected, he we wield LB's power, not necessarily the sword itself. But the power may be channeled through Longclaw.

[Mladen]

I'm stating that if Jon is resurrected, he we wield LB's power, not necessarily the sword itself. But the power may be channeled through Longclaw.

There is no reason to believe Longclaw is anything more than ordinary Valyrian sword like many others. Lightbringer is something far more symbolical than orfinary sword. Perhaps the story is about sword, but who would tell, after 8000 years and inclinations towards poeticism, the Lightbringer perhaps is not sword at all.

[MissingNo]

The true men of NW will remain as they were. Ater Jon is resurrected in style of Azor Ahai, IMO, he will put them in order and prepare them to fight. You forget that Wall is enchanted by powerful magic of CotF and First Men, and that Others will have great problems going through Wall. Jon`s new army consisted of NW men will be his sword in fighting Others. The chaos is at the Wall at the moment, but once Jon is revived, I doubt it will last for long.

But Jon will not just spring back up, it could be days before he comes back to life. In that time Wildlings will wipe out the watch, Jon was the glue holding the allegiance together. Without him the NW and freefolk will fight, and the watch loose because of the sheer number of wildlings. Maybe a few loyal to Jon or those who have become friends to the wildlings will yield, but not many will live.

[Mladen]

But Jon will not just spring back up, it could be days before he comes back to life. In that time Wildlings will wipe out the watch, Jon was the glue holding the allegiance together. Without him the NW and freefolk will fight, and the watch loose because of the sheer number of wildlings. Maybe a few loyal to Jon or those who have become friends to the wildlings will yield, but not many will live.

No one denies that. After Jon`s stabbing, the hell will break loose. It`s just matter of how will it end. I don`t see NW completely wiped out.

[MissingNo]

I think the wildlings will put him on a funeral Pyre as is their custom and a NW survivor will say "And now his watch is ended" This will be the trigger. No UnKiss gimmicks. Jon will rise, unburnt like Dany in aGoT and shit will go down.

[MissingNo]

Side note: Any one watch Dragon Ball Z? When Goku first goes super saiyan, he states "I am the light in the darkness" the same as in the NW vows. Not really relevant but it shows it is the person who has unlocked the power, not a magically sword. I think with Jon it will be the same. He as AAR has the power within him and should not need a magic sword IMO.

[butterbumps!]

My theory is that the power of lightbringer is contained in the words of the vow themselves.

In the story of the forging of the sword IIRC the the sword splits are breaks when tempered the first two times after 30 and 50 days and is formed perfectly after 100 days of folding the metal and at the sacrifice of Nissa Nissa.

I agree with you that there is power in the NW vow itself. Specifically, I think that the real power comes from swearing the vows to the old gods. I speculate that Coldhands is the way he is because I think swearing vows before a weirwood might give some form of a shield to the oath-taker against being completely taken by Others (the wights we've seen hadn't sworn before the old gods).

But I want to back up for a second. Azor Ahai is an agent of fire. The eschatology of the Reds is strikingly similar to the way the Others raise the dead: it's said that when AA comes again "death itself will bend the knee." I firmly believe that Azor Ahai is every bit of a disaster as the Others; look what fire brought to Vayria. Even the adage about a "summer that never ends" sounds like a catastrophe (a world saved from ice only to be plunged into a world of fire).

This does not sound like what the Last Hero stands for. Why would the person supposedly destined to restore balance be an agent of only one extreme?

I really think this Azor Ahai thing is over-played, in that, I get he's presented to us as a hero, but in reality, I think he's a monster, and his fire-business is every bit as problematic as what the Others are doing (and when you look closely at the theology, they are in fact doing what the Others are).

I think the similarities between AA and the Last Hero stem from cultural translation and misappropriations of one to the other, but I don't think the AA myth in its current permutation is the answer to the little ice problem going on, and actually, is just as much of a problem.

ETA: also, "the Watch takes no part" is not an actual part of the vow.

[Mladen]

I think the wildlings will put him on a funeral Pyre as is their custom and a NW survivor will say "And now his watch is ended" This will be the trigger. No UnKiss gimmicks. Jon will rise, unburnt like Dany in aGoT and shit will go down.

There is no way for that to happen, since Jon would burn. He is most likely going to be revived through blood sacrifice in front of Heart tree.

[Jordouche]

The idea of light in the darkness didn't exactly originate from anime... It's a pretty basic concept.

[Mladen]

I really think this Azor Ahai thing is over-played, in that, I get he's presented to us as a hero, but in reality, I think he's a monster, and his fire-business is every bit as problematic as what the Others are doing (and when you look closely at the theology, they are in fact doing what the Others are).

I think that AA is over-played in different way. I believe that in Valyria and Ashai where the myth was created, they gave him some characteristics that possibly don`t apply to him. For instance, they could have seen fire as symbol of life, and they gave him all that fire-business as you said. Perhaps he is just hero who was interpreted badly throughout the millenia?

[MissingNo]

The idea of light in the darkness didn't exactly originate from anime... It's a pretty basic concept.

I know just throwin in DBZ references,

because its awesome.

[MissingNo]

There is no way for that to happen, since Jon would burn. He is most likely going to be revived through blood sacrifice in front of Heart tree.

Yes but if you subscribe to R+L=J then there is the Targ/Fire element as well. It will be a combo of Wildling/NW funeral rites (Ice) and a funeral pyre (Fire). As Jon is Stark and Targ, Ice and Fire.