In terms of fighters, what is the numeric strength of the crannogmen?

[Kingmonkey]

We do know that the crannog men are hunter gatherers because when they came to winter fell for the HARVEST feast they only brought stuff they foraged. Fish and frogs and game birds.

The "gifts of fish and frog and fowl" isn't really much to go on. For a start, Meera and Jojen came alone, and probably picked up a nominal offering for the sake of form on the way. On the other hand, those fowl could be battery chickens from the massive Crannogmen factory farms rather than being game birds, for all we know. I'd need a lot more evidence to go on to consider it proven they're non-agricultural. Manderly brought 20 casks of fish to the harvest feast, but that doesn't suggest that his people can't farm.

I see no evidence that the Crannogmen's land would be any less productive than the Ironmen's barren, infertile land is for them. Neither of them have good pasture, but marshland and wetland is far more productive than barren rocky islands. Both of them get a lot of their food for fishing. The Ironmen can gather an army of 20,000 men at lowest-end estimates, while the Crannogmen have approximately five times as much land. Why shouldn't they raise an army of 100,000 men, by that measure?

Obvious reason -- it wouldn't make sense for the North had that kind of force just sitting around. It also doesn't make any sense that the Iron Islands are as powerful as they are, but that suits the story. The Crannogmen will be as powerful as suits the story, too.

[Getright]

I guess the best modernish equivalent I can think of is the bonzai charges of the Japs during WWII. All of the WWII vets I have interviewed/seen interviewed said that before first contact they were scared of the Japanese hand to hand skills because they supposedly knew karate or Judo or whatever. After the first couple bonzai charges all the Americans knew that the Japanese were inferior hand to hand fighters because they were so small.

I exact phrase I was given was, "it was like killing children." Bayonets and swords and trench knives are about the same thing as medieval combat.

Where in the books was it ever said they were good fighters? We only ever see Howland Reed beat up by children and Meera beating up Sam.

I haven't seen any evidence showing a 5-7 thousand man army being even remotely possible. I have heard it said that about 3% of a population can be mobilized for war and that is pretty much the limit before it starts messing with the society (the way the Umbers and Karstarks have had their economies collapse from lack of manpower) and its important to note that the crannogmen are hunters and gatherers NOT agriculturalists. The population density potential for a hunter/gatherer culture is a fraction of an agrarian one. Its been a while since anthropology of tribalism but I want to say a 100 square mile patch of land could support about 1/4 the population the same patch could under agriculture. Thats average of course because some land is much more willing to be cultivated than others but if my ancient sodden brain serves that sounds about right.

Thats why my estimates are about 1/4 of the others, because of the difference of h&g vs. agrarian. lack of a warrior culture (like the mountain clans), and the general disinterest of anything beyond the neck the crannogmen seem to have.

Not all the Japanese were Ninja Warriors of course not, they were forced to charge with minimal training, most of the men who did the banzai charges is due to tradition. Those men were picked off the street and conscripted into the military and probably never held rifles or bayonets in their lives. It's an old Shogun tactic to throw everything they had at the Americans, they did not care about losses but the Americans did, that's why in the end they dropped the A-Bomb because there was no other option, they just sent wave after wave of men not caring how many men would die due to Banzai. it's calculated I believe if the US invaded mainland japan they would take over a million losses.

Not the best comparison to the trained Crannogmen soldiers. You could ask who would win in a fight of a Samurai Vs European Knight, this has been under investigation for years and there is no clear answer, too many variables to have a clear winner and the Samurai would definitely be smaller in height than the Knight. It's the training, weapons and armour that matters.

But also, in the books it may not state that Crannogmen are good fighters sorry for that, it states this on the wiki page on Crannogmen.

It's clear that the Knight of the laughing Tree was indeed Howland himself who defended his own honour, he also saved Ned Starks life at the Tower of Joy against Ser Arthur Dayne.

P.S He wasn't beaten up by children but three squires who were the same age as him, and he defeated the Knights they served and not the squires so that's pretty noble of him.

In terms of numbers I have actually calculated it before on a previous post, to put it brief the Neck has 7 crannog houses, each house would have around 500 fighters (Similar to the Northern Mountain Houses) and the Reeds similar to the Karstarks so 3000-3500, the North East of the North is not that densely populated, possibly like it would be around Greywater Watch yet the Karstarks manage to raise this number so I can't see how Howland couldn't, he was a main banner-man to Eddard for a reason. Also, the Neck is an Important strategic liability to the North and is located south of Moat Cailin, this means no defence against invaders so they would need strength in numbers.

Even North of the wall can raise 100,000 men so 7500 men in the Neck seems like a no brainer to me.

[The Fallen]

Nope. They were ordered to stay in the Neck and defend it instead.

"He must march soon, or not at all," Maester Luwin said. "The winter town is full to bursting, and this army of his will eat the countryside clean if it camps here much longer. Others are waiting to join him all along the kingsroad, barrow knights and crannogmen and the lords Manderly and Flint. The fighting has begun in the riverlands, and your brother has many leagues to go."

So some crannogmen marched with Robb. How many? We don't know. I would say the majority stayed behind.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

So some crannogmen marched with Robb. How many? We don't know. I would say the majority stayed behind.

I'm not sure that they did. When Cat meets Robb at Moat Cailin he tells her

"I've sent word to Howland Reed, Father's old friend at Greywater Watch. If the Lannisters come up the Neck, the crannogmen will bleed them every step of the way"

I think Robbs plan changed from Winterfell to Moat Cailin as he heard of the two Lannister armies now in the Riverlands and had to plan for the possibility of them marching North.

[Free Northman Reborn]

The crannogmen are valuable defensively mostly, and maybe for an amphibious assault on the Twins, if it comes to that. I note that we are told that it was not just Moat Cailin that defeated countless Andal armies that tried to invade the North, but that many of the armies were defeated by the Crannogmen themselves, before they even got to Moat Cailin.

Hence, their value as a defensive tool is akin to the Iron Fleet's defensive value to the Ironborn.

[Crippledtank]

If tyrion can slay knights like he's born for it, then I'm sure the crannogmen can make an impact outside of the neck.

They may not be great men at arms or knights but they make excellent archers don't they.

But again tyrion manage to survive two battles and slay numerous knights and full grown men. That's with his small stature, Short arms and twisted stunted legs therefore I think a crannogman can hold his own