How small a modern Army would it take to subjugate Westeros

[Grip]

you said no nukes so I would take the Historic U.S. First Fleet, Interesting thing about a fleet, is there pretty much self sustaining they have frigates for engineering landing parties whole nine yards. So you you never run out of ammo if you do it right. Giving you time to train and defend. Plus at this point since its the beginning of world war 2 i have a carrier giving me air superiority. I think maybe KL one day, the rest of westeros maybe year and a half..

How would the U.S First Fleet stand up to Krakens though? :P

[MasterJack]

3

Dragons.

So 3 Apache Helicopters, basically the same things

[IRON BANK]

How would the U.S First Fleet stand up to Krakens though? :P

alot better than a sail boat :lol:

[l3ol3o]

It would only take a small amount of men to take control. Air power would be key.

The problem is to hold vast amounts of land you need soldiers on the ground.

It's kind of like the USA in Iraq and Afghanistan. Both countries fell in weeks. Taking over wasn't the problem it's the rebellion after.

You would have to make alliances very quickly and use your allies to hold your lands using the threat of completely destroying entire castles with a few bombs if anyone resists.

[The Farrison Horde]

I'm picturing the tank commander blasting this on the speakers.

Id pay good money to see the look on Tywins face when he spies this thing rolling up to KL from the battlements. As for the OP, I would say its a matter of how many bullets they brought with them. A modern day soldier could basically get a 10,000+ kd ratio

[Littlefingers In The Air]

With modern weapons technology There is no protection against magic and dragons. Given your criteria, we could probably take out Others with flamethrowers. We could take out their soldiers with semi-automatic rifles. I'd say 1500 men could subjugate Westeros.

[Bayard]

You would need a vastly larger force if you want to hold the conquest though. The British in Afghanistan in the 19th century, or USA in Iraq recently are good examples. Probably need 50,000 to hold Westeros (assuming the population is somewhere around 500,000 to 1,500,000).

Yeah, the problem is the population is around 40 million and Westeros is the size of South America.

[Ser Edmure Tully]

Using asymmetrical warfare, it would be possible for the Westerosi to keep on resisting indefinitely, until essentially you get tired of trying to subjugate them. Even if you had machine guns, would you really want to try and subjugate the Neck?

Or even Dorne? To subjugate you have to bring them under you're control.

I see Daeron I as a guy who conquered Dorne but never subjugated it.

Also, how would you wage the war? Honourable or Tywin-style? If people were waging asymmetrical warfare, and you started just systematically wiping out villages and burning the region they were hiding in pretty quickly they'd either give up or die. But if you weren't willing to do that, the longer the resistance lasts, the more weight it will gain.

And if you weren't willing to be ruthless, theoretically resistance could last indefinitely.

[Runaway Penguin]

Define "modern".

In Musket era, you'd still need sizeable army, on the other hand feudal system works in your favor. How many Englishmen did it take to subjugate India? lower estimate of Indian forces at Assaye is 50 000, giving them 1:5 numerical advantage over English army (out of which only two Infantry battalions and a Cavalry regiment were British, rest were Company sepoys), estimates go as high as to 1:10 odds (though much of that was irregular cavalry, totally useless in a battle).

So... In Westeros, I would say that for actual conquest equivalent of one division might be enough, granted you have ample ammunition. Few spectacular victories and Westeorsi lords will crumble - and their subject will not revolt.

IF you are lucky, you can manage stuff like Plassey, where Clive effectively bribed a magnate to turn on rest of Indian army and pledge allegiance to the British. Then you get a puppet ruler and your actual ruler.

The more modern you get, the less soldiers you need for actual battle. Just pack steel cored bullets to make sure you have no issue with breastplates.

Of course subduing cities might be an issue eventually, but again feudal system plays for you.

[aware_of_thrones]

A modern equivalent of the German Afrika Corps with the use of German Leopard 2 tanks and all terrain APCs complemented with two super aircraft carrier groups operationg on both sides of the Westerosi continent to deal with naval engagements and provide varitable air support when needed (preferably with both fighter jets and a good number of AC-130 gun-ships and drones for precision strikes). Frigates and destroyers with Tomahawk cruise missile launch capabilities would be useful although optional.

Super Aircraft Carriers (with the standard complement of at least 90 fighter jets) would serve as flagships and HQ for such a campaign. The use of air survaillance, in particular scout drones, to creat a rudimentary GPS system would be preferable before initiating more inward offences and invading Dorne and The North.

The use of shock and blitzkrieg tactics would render everything below The Neck and above the Dornish Marshes indefensable and therefore easaly conquered. Dorne would have to be quikly invaded and it's military infrastructure uturly destroyed to avoid guerrilla warfare. The Iron Islands would require an island hoping campaingn, such would be delegated to Marine forces of the Carrier group stationed in the area. The North would require a more planed offensive but would only suffer from a slightly more prolonged engagement. Not sure however how to contain Reed guerrilla tactics. The use of all terrain mechanized land forces and fluent mobility would be the key to transverse the variety of terrains of the continent and the use of carpet bombing on certain ocasions would serve to destroy stationary fortifications and wage psychological warfare.

Given some battleplans imployed during the Cold War, such an invasion would be deemed successful in the span of a week, depending on the containment of guerrilla insurgency on select regions.

Sidenote: If a White Walker invasion is in the table, I would also suggest having flamethrowers at hand for unit-on-unit combat, have Napalm at the ready for air support and be able to fit flamethrower capabilities on tanks and APCs.

[tydides]

White Walkers aren't undead.

why does everyone think they are undead?

[Ser Edmure Tully]

why does everyone think they are undead?

The show I bet. It does give off a zombie-ish vibe. Plus the Others can make undead, I suppose it's an easy confusion.

[AreoAxeman]

It's not like the lords and ladies treat their small folk well. Winning hearts and minds would be an easy thing. They could be won over with the promise of more comfortable lives, and the technological support to make it all happen. If you can win the small folk to your cause, there is no need to police or subjugate anyone. Destroy the lords and other highborn in their castles and lead the rest into a westerosi renaissance.

[North_Remembers]

Ok, we need to table this logistics discussion for the moment and get back to the most important part of the discussion... namely the kickass mix tape.

So far I’m picturing “Rock You Like a Hurricane” (The Scorpions), “Let The Bodies Hit The Floor” (Drowning Pool), and “Iron Man” (Black Sabbath).

Back to the most important topic, the mixtape:

I mean, come on, you have to go with blasing "Ride of the Valkyries" from your helicopters as you swoop in over the trees.

"I love the smell of burnt dragons in the morning. It smells like...Victory." Jon Snow

[Blancatz]

Like Spaniards did in the New World (which is pretty similar to Aegon´s Conquest). Engage a couple of great battles in which you could use your military advantages and ally with everyone.

Occupy their capitals and make any changes smooth, be ruthless with the enemies and reward your allies.

Enjoy your new realm!

[Khal Shaggydog]

Mixtape would be key. You might be able to subjugate Westeros with one well amplified electric guitar.

[Darth Visenya]

For arguments sake lets say technology from 2013, and no issues about running out of fuel or ammo.

Probably 1000-2000 could do it?.

Also I don't think Whitewalkers would be much of a match for a flamethrower or Dragons much of a match for a Rocket Launcher, or even high powered bullets, if a spear can pierce their skin.

[Hodor Blackfyre]

one man in an a10

[Trajan117AD]

If done correctly, utilizing the native religions and superstitions, no more than a couple hundred would be required. One quick campaign of "shock and awe" would be required.

If you had a modern general that has the understanding and competence of say, a Julius Caesar would make a couple large displays of power, and most people of importance would bend the knee.

Even if you had to fight a couple pitched battles; you utilize the forces you've garnered from the indigenous peoples, lay a few lines of claymore mines, have a few well placed snipers immediately take out the defenders field marshalls and lieutenants, then immediately take out those that run to take their place (I believe after a half dozen times, you wont see men anxious to take their place). The armies of the early medieval times, or the ancient Romans for that matter, aren't able to fight with much efficacy without the generals. Send in your auxiliary forces (composed of the knights and infantry from the forces that bent the knee earlier) to do some mop up of any remaining soldiers that stay in the fight, and the country is yours.

Manipulation of the existing superstitions, and our almost god-like communication capabilities (compared to ravens) and our ability to travel much more quickly would be our most potent weapons. Holding onto power I believe can be easier, if only for our intelligence gathering technology (cameras, microphone bugs, and lie detectors) gives us a big advantage; making coups less likely to succeed.

Holding onto power would require the ability to build new weapons and equipment from raw materials. We would have to be careful not to underestimate the natives (like the way Caesar never underestimated the enemy in his campaigns in Gaul), that would end up being our folly.

In short, modern forces could make Aegons conquest look tame.

[The Black Hawk]

I ask my brother Brandon since is a Army Sergant he basically said you would need that many men because the technology edge over medival weapons he said maybe like five thousand at most.