How small a modern Army would it take to subjugate Westeros

[TheRaggedWildling]

A modern army would need pretty good fortifications. Even with guns, a cavalry charge could wipe them out.

..not really. Look at WW1, where wave after wave of rifle-equipped infantry were literally mowed down by MG. Aimed at a medieval-level army, where melee troops march in lines straight toward the foe, any sort of MG would rack up a kill tally in the thousands, especially since over penetration of the round would definitely be in effect.

As for cavalry, most modern militaries field antipersonnel mines that blow off the foot. Failing that, concertina wire would most definitely stop any sort of cavalry charge.

[Azul DeLaRosa]

About 5000 troops for a shock and awe campaign and after that we reward everyone with technology. Tv's, IPad''s, fast food, junk food, Internet, cheap clothes, credit cards. They would be subjugated and content forever.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

A helicopter flying over Westeros, powered by solar energy would do the job.

[thecryptile]

The modern invaders would only have to kill a few lords before the rest of Westerosi society bent the knee.

Aegon the Conqueror had a small army compared to the Westerosi Kings, but with the advantage of dragons for air-support he was able to crush them decisively (except for the North and Dorne). There is no reason to think a small modern military force of around 1,000troops would have any difficulty subjugating Westeros.

[Benjen of the Kingsguard]

I think one attack helicopter would be more than enough to force the Seven Kingdoms to surrender.

Blasting the "Imperial March" from Star Wars from mounted speakers, of course.

[Aethermancer]

I think one attack helicopter would be more than enough to force the Seven Kingdoms to surrender.

Blasting the "Imperial March" from Star Wars from mounted speakers, of course.

Flight of the Valkyries is a must IMO.

[Burning down the House]

Westeros is a logistical nightmare for a modern force. Basically no roads and bridges that can't support your tanks and trucks. Moving all the ammo and fuel around would be very difficult.

[Kienn]

1 drone pilot.

[Ser Lepus]

A very small group could do it if they were politically smart. I think that a group of a few hundred guys with machine guns and grenades, maybe just one hundred, could crush any westerosi army (it doesn't matter if they can put 100.000 troops in the field...those 100.000 troops won't be able to get close to the modern army, and after 1.000 or 5.000 of them have been ground to mush in mere minutes, the rest will run).

But winning the battle is half the work. An smart politician could easily make the westerosi lords bend the knee and obey after that, but if you try to play Khal Drogo and travel through Westeros piling corpses, they will eventually learn about your weak points (like poisoning your food or attacking at night, not letting you rest) and counter-attack you.

[Biglose]

Oh, man I love it how people claim that logistics are no problem, because modern weapons are superior to medival...

What a load of crap.

If you can't reproduce the stuff you use, you will be dead in the long run. Not matter how superior you are.

One faceless man throwing a bit of wildfire at your ammunition and......

Now you only have 70% of your ammunition.

Not to mention that cars, tanks and helicopters are kind of in the need for repairs and spare parts.

If you only get to pass once, use 500 Engineers(Building, Agriculture, technical)/Medical professionals/skilled workers, a load of building material and 50 GIs for protection.

Even if you can only build WW1 kind of weapons, a Winchester Model 1907 is probably enough to take down dragons (if you have some soldiers) and the major issue is replacing it.

You get your ass handed to you? No problem, the enemy won't get a lot of ammunition and you can just replace your losses by training new soldiers and give them the rifles you just produced.

[Biglose]

A very small group could do it if they were politically smart. I think that a group of a few hundred guys with machine guns and grenades, maybe just one hundred, could crush any westerosi army (it doesn't matter if they can put 100.000 troops...those 100.000 troops won't be able to get close to modern army, and after 1.000 or 5.000 of them have been ground to mush in mere minutes, the rest will run).

But winning the battle is half the work. An smart politician could easily make the westerosi lords bend the knee and obey after that, but if you try to play Khal Drogo and travel through Westeros piling corpses, they will eventually learn about your weak points (like poisoning your food or attacking at night, not letting you rest) and counter-attack you.

And after crushing the army? Their granades will be used up, their ammunition shot and the condition of their rifles will decrease..

[corbon]

Subjugation is not winning a battle or two. Its winning the peace too. A small modern force could win the iron throne, but they can't keep westeros subjugated for long. It doesn't even take a faceless man, just a small handful of assassins.

I'd recommend the 1632 series (Ring of Fire) to quite a few people here, not because it is perfect or brilliant in itself, but just to get some idea of the depth needed for this sort of thing. It would be vastly, vastly more difficult to do the same in Westeros than in 30YW germany for many reasons including, but not limited to:

- scale

- local technological and economic infrastructures being far more limited

- local political and social infrastructures being far less accepting of, or capable of adapting to, modern social ideas

- magic etc actually works in westeros

If you only get to pass once, use 500 Engineers(Building, Agriculture, technical)/Medical professionals/skilled workers, a load of building material and 50 GIs for protection.

This is heading in the right direction...

Add in a large library focused on 'DIY everything' and make sure those engineers etc are 'old school' tinkerers, the sort of guys who have their own mahcine shops and build hand made working model steam engines for fun, not modern specialists.

[DaveSnow House Stark]

Ok, my little take on this. One air craft carrier battle group could take and rule Westeros. You have the capability to launch fighter jets, helicopters, Seal teams, and you have a floating hospital. You could take that fleet and spread it around the continent and maintain order with it. Just have a stronghold in each of the main locations, Dorne, KL, Casterly Rock, Winterfell etc. You would be able to fly in and out when needed. Once you are established, which wouldn't take long!, you wouldn't need to fly much and could conserve fuel. Of course I am using nuke powered carriers and subs so refueling them is a non issue. Protecting food supply and water would be important but with the modern knowledge of farming they could increase crop yields.

[Biglose]

Honestly, I am under the impression some people just get off talking about modern weaponery.

For what in the name of the nine hell do you need aircrafts or even fighter jets. NOTHING in Westeros has anything even near the strategic worth to justify the amount of resources you need to keep an aircraftcarrier operational. Jesus they do not just work on their own.

Of course I am using nuke powered carriers and subs so refueling them is a non issue.

Oh, man. Are you freaking serious about that? You think an aircraft carrier does not need supplys?

You think a nuclear reactor runs on his own?

Spareparts, tools, engine oil...Sure you can keep your carrier for a few years but after 10 years the reactor will probably start acting up, most of the systems on the ship won't work anymore, most of the fighters would be inoperational and so on. After 15 years your carrier group will have turned in an toxic waste dump...

[corbon]

Ok, my little take on this. One air craft carrier battle group could take and rule Westeros. You have the capability to launch fighter jets, helicopters, Seal teams, and you have a floating hospital. You could take that fleet and spread it around the continent and maintain order with it. Just have a stronghold in each of the main locations, Dorne, KL, Casterly Rock, Winterfell etc. You would be able to fly in and out when needed. Once you are established, which wouldn't take long!, you wouldn't need to fly much and could conserve fuel. Of course I am using nuke powered carriers and subs so refueling them is a non issue. Protecting food supply and water would be important but with the modern knowledge of farming they could increase crop yields.

Just as an example, how are you going to feed this fleet? - very few places are going to have enough produce to support that many sailors that won't spoil in days. No canned food, no freeze-drying, no frozen mass-storage available off-ship. How are you going to collect this food? Transport it? Acquire it at all?

Or fund the fleet itself? Who is paying the salaries (and what with), purchasing consumables, providing replacement sailors?

Where are the charts and maps you need coming from? How is it positioning itself without GPS?

How are you going to project power beyond sight of the coastline without expending your irreplaceable fuel and munitions? Without maps or charts or satellite images?

How long can a CBG actually stay at sea without even wet supply? Because thats what you are doing, practically almost forever.

How self-sufficent is a CBG really? Without any suitable harbours and no port services, or any land based services at all? No independent support/service ships, no satellites, no outside comms, just the ships in the group and the men on them.

Too big a force and you are screwed by the logistics before you even start. Too small a force and you are vulnerable to asymmetric warfare or surprises. Heck, either way to are vulnerable to reverse-pox, even with a good medical establishment. And the bigger you are, the more vulnerable, as you have to accept the shit (literally) logistics faster.

For all that I hate modern jargon, you have to win hearts and minds here. And you have to win them among the nobility, as the common people are too collectively downtrodden and the middle class too small and powerless.

So bring your Machiavelli, you are going to need it.

[Ramsay B.]

Honestly, I am under the impression some people just get off talking about modern weaponery.

For what in the name of the nine hell do you need aircrafts or even fighter jets. NOTHING in Westeros has anything even near the strategic worth to justify the amount of resources you need to keep an aircraftcarrier operational. Jesus they do not just work on their own.

Oh, man. Are you freaking serious about that? You think an aircraft carrier does not need supplys?

You think a nuclear reactor runs on his own?

Spareparts, tools, engine oil...Sure you can keep your carrier for a few years but after 10 years the reactor will probably start acting up, most of the systems on the ship won't work anymore, most of the fighters would be inoperational and so on. After 15 years your carrier group will have turned in an toxic waste dump...

You're taking this a little too seriously. Krakens will swallow any aircraft carrier operational today.

[shearstone]

Luckily Westeros is used to a foreign invader with advanced weapons taking over so the subjegation part should be pretty easy.

You need a couple thousand men with APC's for transport, armed with assault rifles heavy machine guns, grenades and some rocket launchers. Logistics will be an issue as I doubt modern armies would be much good at forraging and many might have a moral opposition to robbing poor people of their food. So assuming supply isn't a issue.

Pummle the Vanguard of an army the rest will likely run so no problem battle wise. Take a castle with rocket launchers by simply wiping out the walls that defend them as the lords would likely hide in their castle's rather than give battle after this. Let them bend the knee and keep their lands if they refuse kill them all ask a maester who is next in line, ask them same question rinse and repeat for all 7 kingdoms.

Occupy Kings Landing using your men to keep the peace instead of the Gold Cloaks. Traditional Westeros seat of power which gives a certain degree of legitimacy. Start implementing advances in health and education to the small folk, better irrigation techniques etc so everyone's lives improve and job done, they'd likely side with the guys teaching them and helping make their lives better than the lords who just work them so unlikely to fight against you. If they do you keep your men, weapons and equipment at KL and move out and slaughter rebellious lords and put new ones in their place.

All in all cumbersome but relatively straight forward.

[N/A]

Your talking out of your ass men in tanks and APCs with a couple black

hawks overseeing

things from above could move from castle to castle in any direction they choose and win. Moderner armies need those things in our age because its a relitively level playing field and any advantage makes a differnce but when your talking about a modern army vs an army from the

Middle Ages the odds are already so stacked in your favor those things don't really matter. Oh and for future reference if you don't want to offend and annoy people don't write in big obnoxious lettering like u know shit

You are both rude and ignorant and it's not my job to educate you, so don't wonder why i say this

[geogus]

What kind of question is this? Of course any small ARMY can beat all westerosi armys.

The small army of Swaziland (do u know where this tiny african nation is located?) can beat all the westerosi armies combined. (with all due respect with any swazilander reading this)

However, for the sake of argument, lets think about this.

What do u mean about small army??

Is it a bunch of guys, lets say, 1000 soldiers moving by foot armed with pistols, machine guns and rifles and maybe some granedaes?

If its that, they probably wouldnt be able to defeat all the westerosi armies in combat.

However they would be able to to deal grate damege to armies 10 X bigger and might win by politcs (after crushing a much bigger army).

Besides that, if they were attacked, these soldiers wouldnt stand still as medieval infantry or archers, most liekely they would dig tranches, fortify and wait there the attack, and most like they would repel any army, even if it is 20K (assuming they have the ammo)

If they had a castle it would never fall.

Now If u mean a MODERN ARMY, equiped with combat veichles, fuel trucks for suplly, tanks, chopers, (not considering planes because they would need an airport) and artillary ( in case u forgot, big cannos that can crush castle wall from milles away and kill severall man with a single shot if they are close, like it works in a medieval army), rockets, night vision , mines, armed drones, and tanks ( imagine 3 tanks against the 6K Robb stark cavalary)

Westeros dont stand a chance. Modern army moves much faster (veichles), see at night, have flying units, tanks, armor, mines for defense and much superior firepower.....

Most likely a modern army of, lets say, 1000 soldiers, could beat all westerosi with no more than 10 deaths

And im not even considering here naval warfare..... Imagine that.....

For sure a modern frigate can destroy all westerosi (including ironborn+ redwyne + royal fllet, + dragon stone fllet + Manderly fleet + Sallador Saan pirate fllet fleet who was hired to help in the fight against the frigate) alone with ease.

[geogus]

Im reading this topic people defend westerosi armies oddds because morden army needs suply.....

C´mon guys. waht are u thinking.... How this modern army arrived at westeros. It just poped up there, from nothing and from accident....

Lets consider Westerors exists ina paralel world and we are plaaning to invade it somehown.

The modern army arrives, takes a position and installs a base where they can statring producing supllies and food and fuel (if we are making plans to colonize mars, I think we can do that in a world with air, sun, day and night and already some infra structure built that can be seized and native people that can be forced to work)

Lets say this army spends one year building the supllie base and repelling any attack made against it. During this time, only outside operantions would be to chart the lands, and they could this with a helicopter.

Yeah, they wouldnt have a GPS, but I really dont it s necessary.

after one year they beat all the westeros.