Wood_of_the_Morning Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 So if wargs can jump into the minds of animals and Bran can warg Hodor, and we know that really powerful wargs can connect their consciousness to trees, then wouldn't dead people be a really simple thing to warg? It seems that all you need is a relatively weak- (or empty) minded vessel.A central question has been whether one can warg a dragon - which is exactly an outcome we are supposed to contemplate. What chance does Drogon's meager training by Dany, Tyrion's knowledge of dragon taming and/or Euron's horn have against someone like Bran who can just take over the creature's mind?But never mind dragons for a minute. If the dead are warg-able, then it means that something is controlling them. This brings a whole new dimension of possibilities for Coldhands. Is he just a vessel controlled by BR? If so, his actually identity becomes irrelevant.So what does this have to do with Jon? Well if Jon jumps into ghost after the stabbing and then his body becomes 'undead' - and then he wargs back into himself at some point- what does that make him? Is he human? Is he alive? Does it mean he can think and talk like a normal person, but his body is cold and dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonstar Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I think it is easy to warg dead people - My theory is that the great Other is a being that Wargs dead people and turns them into white walkers. They are not animate in and off themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If, if, if, if, if.Don't have enough info to make a good guess. Though, I doubt the dead are wargable, and I don't believe anyone is warging the wights. Just looks like plain necromancy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 One problem with this is that so far in the books we've been told that Wargs are unable to warg anything once they've died and started their 2nd life in a beast.It's possible Haggon/Varymyr were wrong though, or that a Dire Wolf is an exception since it is itself a magical beast, whereas Haggon/Varymyr apparently only had access to regular old wolves and bears so may not be aware of the Dire Wolf exception... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It's absolutely possible, but it might just as well be that if you warg a dead person or animal, while you perhaps have an easy time getting into their head you then just enjoy a monotonous screen of blackness while you can't use a muscle because, you know, your body is dead and you can't use it anymore than you could use the body of a warged doll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I think it is easy to warg dead people - My theory is that the great Other is a being that Wargs dead people and turns them into white walkers. They are not animate in and off themselves...You mean wights.It's a common theory that the Others (White Walkers) warg the wights. But the Great Other... I don't think such thing exists.The gods in ASoIaF are like in our world, it's about fate. They're not characters. Characters believe in them or do not. But we won't have any evidence of their existence.We even have evidence that some do not exist (the Old Gods are only the spirits of previous wargs/skinchangers/greenseers who warged animals before dying) in ADWD.The only thing we know it exists is magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Nastja Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If, if, if, if, if.Don't have enough info to make a good guess. Though, I doubt the dead are wargable, and I don't believe anyone is warging the wights. Just looks like plain necromancy to me. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall-Talker Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think that if Jon did die he coming back as a wight is out of the question. Didn't he "die" south of the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the Green Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think that if Jon did die he coming back as a wight is out of the question. Didn't he "die" south of the Wall?Yeah, I don't really think that he'll be 'wightified.' As much as the black brothers hate the Free Folk, they seem to have adopted their burial tradition of cremation, at least in the short run.Personally, I have always liked the idea that, instead of Jon warging into Ghost (which still seems like the most logical option), Ghost will warg into Jon. Don't know why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 So what does this have to do with Jon? Well if Jon jumps into ghost after the stabbing and then his body becomes 'undead' - and then he wargs back into himself at some point- what does that make him? Is he human? Is he alive? Does it mean he can think and talk like a normal person, but his body is cold and dead?The obvious problem is if Jon warged into Ghost, he's now in his second life and can't warg anymore.But, if there's a way round that, Jon wouldnt strictly be Undead, as his mind never died, just his body, so he would be a unique case to what we've seen so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo Attano Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This is pure speculation. All we know about warging so far is that Its possible to warg wolves, shadowcats, bears, humans, birds, boars, trees if you're exceptionally powerful, possibly bears, and the people of Lonley Light (the smallest and most remote of the Iron Islands) are said to be able to warg various sea creatures. Everything else (including including dragons and dead bodies) is pretty much pulling ideas out of your ass. I don't want to get deep Into theorizing about something we know so little about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViennaGirl Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Personally, I have always liked the idea that, instead of Jon warging into Ghost (which still seems like the most logical option), Ghost will warg into Jon. Don't know why...So he'd be running around sniffing things and snarling? I guess that's better than being a zombie. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the Green Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 So he'd be running around sniffing things and snarling? I guess that's better than being a zombie. +1I suppose. Can the human incarnation of a mute, albino direwolf snarl, however? Questions for another day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood_of_the_Morning Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 This is pure speculation. All we know about warging so far is that Its possible to warg wolves, shadowcats, bears, humans, birds, boars, trees if you're exceptionally powerful, possibly bears, and the people of Lonley Light (the smallest and most remote of the Iron Islands) are said to be able to warg various sea creatures. Everything else (including including dragons and dead bodies) is pretty much pulling ideas out of your ass. I don't want to get deep Into theorizing about something we know so little about.I remember reading somewhere that George was asked about the warging of dragons, and his reply was something along the lines of 'I guess you'll have to read and find out'I hardly think this is 'pulling ideas out of your ass' - at least compared to some of the crazy theories being bandied about here. There are a lot of open questions here - - including the limits of the 3EC's powers, who is coldhands, what are the boundaries of the most powerful wargs, what will happen to Jon and who will control the dragons once they get to westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandslegate Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yeah, I don't really think that he'll be 'wightified.' As much as the black brothers hate the Free Folk, they seem to have adopted their burial tradition of cremation, at least in the short run.Personally, I have always liked the idea that, instead of Jon warging into Ghost (which still seems like the most logical option), Ghost will warg into Jon. Don't know why...That just gave me a horrible thought. They go to cremate Jon and he doesn't burn. Worst reveal ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthyr Dracenstein Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why? Even if he is a Targaryen, Targs ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandslegate Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why? Even if he is a Targaryen, Targs ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE!!!I know. It was meant to be a joke. Alluding to Dany and the bloodmagic/funeral pyre for Drogo. Mel is all about some blood magic and fire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall-Talker Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I know. It was meant to be a joke. Alluding to Dany and the bloodmagic/funeral pyre for Drogo. Mel is all about some blood magic and fire...IMO, if Jon is burned at the pyre and walks out of it unharmed it will not be because of Mel’s magic. There’s a thread somewhere around here that talks about how Mirri Maz Duur used a knife with runes etched on it when she was doing her magic stuff on Drogo. Later, Bran has a vision of someone sacrificing a person in front of a weirwood also with a knife with runes on it. I’m one of those that actually believes there is a relation there. Especially if you take into account the Theon WoW sample chapter and the way it ended. Therefore, I think that if Jon walks out of the pyre (if it happens at all) it will be due to Bloodraven/Bran/CoTF and not because of Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Shieldbreaker Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The obvious problem is if Jon warged into Ghost, he's now in his second life and can't warg anymore.But, if there's a way round that, Jon wouldnt strictly be Undead, as his mind never died, just his body, so he would be a unique case to what we've seen so far.Might not be unique... Perhaps Benjen Stark did the same thing and became CH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlood Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The obvious problem is if Jon warged into Ghost, he's now in his second life and can't warg anymore.But, if there's a way round that, Jon wouldnt strictly be Undead, as his mind never died, just his body, so he would be a unique case to what we've seen so far.But what if Jon warged Ghost as he just slipped into a coma of sorts a la Bran? Then as he healed he would simply come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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