Daenerys as a villain?

[Qhorin Fivehands]

Of course she's going to be SEEN as a villain. Three dragons and an army of baby slaughtering eunuchs on her tail, as well as a small council of Westeros' very best exiled and missing councillors. The small folk will freak.

[JonNonRegis]

How would you feel if she became mad and how would you feel if she becomes an antagonist

I already see her as an antagonist.

Certainly she's the archenemy of readers -- she hates us like poison, and fights tirelessly to prevent any sort of story development.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

as stated in another post, I was talking about other opinions of Dany I have seen on the forum, not just this thread.

And it IS biased to say that if you compile all of what she has done for the people (including slaves) of Mereen, then that overall makes her a "villain." Yes, she is perceived as a villain, to who? The slavers. Why? Because she broke the slave trade, defeated them in battle, and dished to them what they were doing to the slaves.

I am NOT saying all her actions were correct. What I am stating is not whether or not she is perceived as a villain (that cannot be helped, there will always be someone who opposes her, therefore attempting to convey her as a villain), but that overall she is not TRULY a villain in the sense of the other villains in the book. She is a conqueror, and a queen, coming into her maturity. She is not, as you put it, "mustache twirling", and yet, she has done more good than has done bad. Hence why so many people love/support her, and why she is hated so much as well.

Just like Jon Snow, if you do what you think is right, it will give you some friends, and a lot of enemies.

It really sounds like your saying, "If you don't come to the same conclusion as me, you're biased."

There are plenty of reasons to see Dany as a potential villain (for example, the genocide I mentioned above). Never mind that her anti-slavery campaign began when she was supposed to pay for her slave army (which she still uses). It is rather convenient. Then, she legalizes slavery when her righteous campaign is over (and I call fucking bullshit on "free choice" since it is pretty easy to manipulate people into "choosing" to be slaves, there's a reason why slavery is never outlawed with the exception "if you want to").

You don't have to agree with the Dany is/becoming a villain. But it's pretty arrogant to simply dismiss people who think that as "biased" because they don't agree with you.

[Morienthar]

She might not go mad,But she won't be Jahaerys or Aegon V that's for sure,She'll have a certain refined cruelty of Maegor.

She'll be an antagonist for most of the major POV's in westeros at this point.

[SeanF]

An antagonist towards other sympathetic characters is not necessarily a villain.

That said, some of Westeros' and Essos' most ruthless people seem to be about to come into her orbit.

[Nictarion]

Antagonist to some of the characters in Westeros, sure. Main villain of the story, absolutely not.

[djc27]

Shades of grey people....

[Miss]

There are probably a lot of threads about daenerys becoming The Mad Queen. I am just wondering how people feel about that. I personally feel like Daenerys is becoming some sort of a antagonist to many of the other POV's. What do you want to happen to her in the future? So would it make a good story for her to become mad and/or even a villain?

How would you feel if she became mad and how would you feel if she becomes an antagonist to most (all except lets say 2) of the other POV's?

Gods but this is the only thing worth talking about, isn't it?

I think she is already a villain, really.

I do not see how her story can end peacefully with her sitting on the Iron Throne. The people of Essos love her, but the rest of the world hates her. She will not be able to forgive the Westerosi nobility, I think. Such as the issue with Jaime. Will she ever forgive him? I do not think it is in her nature. Perhaps if Jaime tells her she was concieved by rape? But I doubt she would hear him out to begin with.

So she cannot ally with Lannisters. Not just because of Jaime, but they are on the throne and thus she must usurp from them. Same with the Tyrells - she cannot ally with them because she is again trying to overthrow their queen. The Iron Born I doubt will be interested for obvious reasons. She is a woman and she is an outsider, so no. The Tullys, Starks and Arryns are all the "usurpers dogs." And she wants to burn them. That will not go down well for people who remember Aerys burning people. Stannis is the rightful King so he will never bend his knee until he is bested in battle because his family already took the crown fair and square. The only chance she had was with Dorne, and she blew that so she could whore it up with a womanizing sellsword who was prettier than Quentyn.

As for the people of Westeros, I do not think she will be able to win them like she did in Essos. They are already starving in the heartlands, and her million freed slaves will not be welcome by them. The unsullied will seem like queer foreign invaders. And she is likely to enlist the help of the Red Priests, which will turn the followers of the Seven against her.

So no no no. On every turn, she can only win the war by killing too many people. She is too bitter and arrogant. I do not see how it can turn out good for her. And her bitterness and unrelenting belief that she was born "entitled" to privilege lead her to do some horrible things, like butchering the masters of Mereen when most of them were probably innocent. She has a cruel streak that comes from this bitterness she feels about people she does not like, and it is indeed turning her into the mad queen.

[IRON BANK]

By what constitutes the things needed to be done to become a "villain" in this series, no Dany is not even close to becoming one.

It really bothers me to see these biased opinions towards her, especially since she has done nothing completely "wrong" on purpose. At least not something she THOUGHT was wrong. I am not saying she hasn't made mistakes within her time as a queen, however, using her own words, "she is a young girl and does not understand the ways of war."

To judge someone, you have to know the shows they walked in....and in this case we GET to see exactly that. She was raised and abused by a psychopath older brother and then given to a strange barbarian to be his wife. Though she came to love him, she had to completely change herself, and let herself have the motivation to survive.

Both her husband (protector) and son die, and she is left with pretty much nothing. Through an act of destiny, she is able to hatch three dragons that are her wildcard. She then travels through a vast desert, watching her people die, and then is admitted into Qarth pretty much only because people lusted after her dragons. She was never taken seriously, and all of her inquiries for help were ignored practically.

Yet, she STILL made a name for herself, and obtained what she wanted, while never becoming a tyrant and whilst still doing what she saw right. she put her whole war on hold, because she felt like the slaves deserved their freedom, in which she effectively liberated them. Yes, war is brutal, and yes she did shed blood, but in truth she was doing what semi needed to be done to try and obtain peace and to show that she should not be taken lightly.

Exactly: I agree most people have to be aware that Dany is going to be in conflict with some lords in westeros. Especially since the failed assasination attempt back in GOT. With that said we also have to be aware that Tyrion, Barristan, and Jorah our on all of her council meetings this means that she has other sides of information coming in all of the pre mentioned people, have different views on all of the Lords of Westeros it will be interesting to see how that sways not only Danys thinking but also the diplomacy or military actions that will be taken.

[Morienthar]

Exactly: I agree most people have to be aware that Dany is going to be in conflict with some lords in westeros. Especially since the failed assasination attempt back in GOT. With that said we also have to be aware that Tyrion, Barristan, and Jorah our on all of her council meetings this means that she has other sides of information coming in all of the pre mentioned people, have different views on all of the Lords of Westeros it will be interesting to see how that sways not only Danys thinking but also the diplomacy or military actions that will be taken.

I for one don't think she's the kind to change her views,If she didn't listen to Barristan,she won't listen to Tyrion and especially Jorah.

[Miss]

I call fucking bullshit

LOL

Good to see you again, Mr. F...

[Miss]

I for one don't think she's the kind to change her views,If she didn't listen to Barristan,she won't listen to Tyrion and especially Jorah.

Yes, it is interesting to think what will go down with Tyrion. He will try and slap sense into her like he did with Joff. But how will she take it? I think Tyrion will betray her somehow. Perhaps the betrayal "for blood." Since I do not think Dany will forgive Jaime for killing her father, Tyrion will betray her to protect him. But it is really hard to say. I am not sure Tyrion will even hang around for that long. Probably he will run off with Victarion on the back of a stolen dragon! I hope so.

[IRON BANK]

I for one don't think she's the kind to change her views,If she didn't listen to Barristan,she won't listen to Tyrion and especially Jorah.

The text w/in the story makes her seem quite pliable, I dont think she will be in open conflict with everyone, some people will get a pass or at least bend the knee.

[SeanF]

Yes, it is interesting to think what will go down with Tyrion. He will try and slap sense into her like he did with Joff. But how will she take it? I think Tyrion will betray her somehow. Perhaps the betrayal "for blood." Since I do not think Dany will forgive Jaime for killing her father, Tyrion will betray her to protect him. But it is really hard to say. I am not sure Tyrion will even hang around for that long. Probably he will run off with Victarion on the back of a stolen dragon! I hope so.

Tyrion is set on winning Casterly Rock, and getting revenge on Cersei. Every bit of advice he gives Dany will serve those two ends. He won't be an impartial advisor.

[Father of Hosts]

Tyrion is set on winning Casterly Rock, and getting revenge on Cersei. Every bit of advice he gives Dany will serve those two ends. He won't be an impartial advisor.

Agreed. I think he'd serve just about anyone who can get him that. Dany just happens to be his only option right now.

[Nictarion]

The text w/in the story makes her seem quite pliable, I dont think she will be in open conflict with everyone, some people will get a pass or at least bend the knee.

I agree. She has too much compassion for children to seek revenge on the Stark kids. The only two I see her not willing to forgive is Jaime, and Stannis.

[IRON BANK]

I agree. She has too much compassion for children to seek revenge on the Stark kids. The only two I see her not willing to forgive is Jaime, and Stannis.

Agree this sound about right, Dany isn't one to just kill randomly, like Gregor or Tywin.

[IRON BANK]

a small council of Westeros' very best exiled and missing councillors.

I love this. Never heard that before. :rofl: That part of the comment was great. Good post.

[Qhorin Fivehands]

I love this. Never heard that before. :rofl: That part of the comment was great. Good post.

I try.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

LOL

Good to see you again, Mr. F...

Really, if you're going to call me by that, you should include this:

It's what goes through my head anyways when I hear that. :lol:

Agree this sound about right, Dany isn't one to just kill randomly, like Gregor or Tywin.

If you ignore all those times she did kill randomly, right? Though I suppose the genocide of Astapor might not be considered random.