DarkSnow Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Why do people bring up Robb and Ned, they are dead so they didn't survive, Robb made it through battles but not the war and he survived by others protecting him like the whispering wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiekie Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Jaime wasn't traded for the girls because the girls weren't valuable enough. Remember the anger when Cat "freed" Jaime. She wanted to trade him for the girls and everyone agreed that was stupid. That's also what Tyrion said to his dad right after Ned was killed. Ned was the only viable hostage. After him they kept Sansa in case they were successful in killing Robb so she could be their "token northling". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 You don't think if she acted in a way that pissed Big J off he would've just smiled and let it go? As it was he frequently threatened her. And whenever Robb had a victory he blamed her for it... and had her beaten some more. Her life was definitely in danger.No I don't think he would have been allowed to kill her unless it was a rare event in public and even that would not happen with Tywin and Tyrion there.wait wasn't that what happened to Ned? Cercei: "ya sure dude go join the NW I just want my bro back", Joffrey: "off with his head".Everything worked out perfectly for this. LF (probably) arranged it so that Cersei could not embarrass the king in public and the actions could be carried out swiftly. Even then Tywin or Tyrion may have been quick enough to stop the execution by claiming that it was wrong to carry out the execution in a holy place.They chose to use Sansa as a hostage instead of Ned or at least Joffrey did. Sansa as I said was lucky that the Hound stopped her from killing Joffrey. That's actually what people think Arya would have been killed for in her place. The Hound liked Sansa so he helped her. I doubt there would have been someone to stop Arya.They planned to use Ned. Joffrey was rightfully furious at Ned and wanted him dead. I don't think he was thinking about anything more than that. Robert was Joffrey's hero and he had probably heard many stories about the great Eddard Stark. Quite understandably he would want his head, after he betrayed Robert the day after he died.Apart from severely maiming or killing Joffrey, I don't see Sansa being killed. Arya might have attempted to kill him, but she would probably have been locked up and not let out long before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiekie Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 No I don't think he would have been allowed to kill her unless it was a rare event in public and even that would not happen with Tywin and Tyrion there.Everything worked out perfectly for this. LF (probably) arranged it so that Cersei could not embarrass the king in public and the actions could be carried out swiftly. Even then Tywin or Tyrion may have been quick enough to stop the execution by claiming that it was wrong to carry out the execution in a holy place.They planned to use Ned. Joffrey was rightfully furious at Ned and wanted him dead. I don't think he was thinking about anything more than that. Robert was Joffrey's hero and he had probably heard many stories about the great Eddard Stark. Quite understandably he would want his head, after he betrayed Robert the day after he died.O.oHow can you base your evidence on what LF "probably" did or didn't do? It's pretty clear that they wanted to trade Ned for Jaime, then Joff screwed it up and viola: war. After the fact they made the best of the situation but it was not what the lannisters intended at all.Apart from severely maiming or killing Joffrey, I don't see Sansa being killed. Arya might have attempted to kill him, but she would probably have been locked up and not let out long before.I highly doubt that. Joffrey was craaazzzyy, cruel and drunk on power. Remember that most of the beatings (actually pretty much everywhere they interacted) WAS in public. So if Sansa said/did something like say, spit in Joff's face, he would've had her killed. And Arya would've tried to maim/kill Joffrey so... yeah. Don't think she would've lasted a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wynter Manderly Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 i don't think Joffrey was logical when he got roused up. Remember Dontos. Joffrey was a hothead sadist and a king. like Mad Aerys so, who knows if Sansa was not in danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I realize that and she did what she had to do to survive and she did it well. I just think the poor girl's soul suffered for it. Arya in DwD is not the same fun-loving, fiery kid of GoT. To me that's sad.I would find it strange for her to go through a war zone and be unaffected by it and ask of her to stay the same as she was when she was 8 or 9 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiekie Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I would find it strange for her to go through a war zone and be unaffected by it and ask of her to stay the same as she was when she was 8 or 9 years old.Wow quite... defensive aren't we. You misunderstand me: I think her situation sucked and she did what she had to do to survive. I'm also saying if it never happened she would've been better off. Her necessary hardening(?) is something I find sad. That's not to say I think she did the wrong thing or that she is at fault somehow. May I not find it lamentable that a 9 yr old has to resort to killing in order to survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Wow quite... defensive aren't we. You misunderstand me: I think her situation sucked and she did what she had to do to survive. I'm also saying if it never happened she would've been better off. Her necessary hardening(?) is something I find sad. That's not to say I think she did the wrong thing or that she is at fault somehow. May I not find it lamentable that a 9 yr old has to resort to killing in order to survive?All of the Starks would have been better off if things had been the way they were in the beginning but the story had to go on. They've all suffered losses. I don't think she has lost herself. She has just changed. This is who she is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiekie Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 All of the Starks would have been better off if things had been the way they were in the beginning but the story had to go on. They've all suffered losses. I don't think she has lost herself. She has just changed. This is who she is now.Hmmm maybe. Although I think for all the suffering and shit she had to go through, and she really went through a lot, Sansa is better off now. She grew up, got some perspective and figured out how to survive the nest of demons in KL. Plus after all her hopes and dreams and her entire world was shattered she's still capable of seeing the bright side and being a little romantic. I find that to be admirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylin Stark Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Arya Stark, Future Queen of the Faceless Men and direwolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Hmmm maybe. Although I think for all the suffering and shit she had to go through, and she really went through a lot, Sansa is better off now. She grew up, got some perspective and figured out how to survive the nest of demons in KL. Plus after all her hopes and dreams and her entire world was shattered she's still capable of seeing the bright side and being a little romantic. I find that to be admirable.They've all gained certain strenghts from their experience sure. Syrio told Arya that every hurt is a lesson.However, say Sansa dreams of Winterfell it will never be the home it was. She can rebuild but she won't be rebuilding the same family as her parents and sibling (s) are dead. It's bittersweet so to speak.Bran can go off be the greatest greenseer there ever was for example. That won't bring back his legs or the life he wanted before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 How can you base your evidence on what LF "probably" did or didn't do? It's pretty clear that they wanted to trade Ned for Jaime, then Joff screwed it up and viola: war. After the fact they made the best of the situation but it was not what the lannisters intended at all.I am not basing my evidence on LF doing something. I was claiming that everything aligned perfectly for Joffrey to order Ned's execution. It was a rare moment, where he could not be curtailed. I suggested that this perfect alignment was not coincidence, but the work of LF. Whether LF was involved or not it still does not change the point. Usually Joffrey would be shut down if he ordered something stupid like that. At the time I don't think word had reached King's Landing that Jaime was captured so I doubt even Joffrey knew how serious the situation was.I highly doubt that. Joffrey was craaazzzyy, cruel and drunk on power. Remember that most of the beatings (actually pretty much everywhere they interacted) WAS in public. So if Sansa said/did something like say, spit in Joff's face, he would've had her killed. And Arya would've tried to maim/kill Joffrey so... yeah. Don't think she would've lasted a day.My point about it being in public, was not that Joffrey was scared to act publicly, but that he had MORE power if he commanded something in public, since the Lannisters would not want him to look weak. Sansa did give Joffrey quite a few insults and I don't think he would have killed her or been allowed to. When she basically suggest that Robb should bring Joffrey her head, she gets a hard slap. Worse case scenario is her insults would get her thrown in the dungeon. Joffrey had very good reason to kill Ned. Arya may or may not have tried to kill Joffrey, but she did not try and kill the Tickler or the Mountain. Arya would also need to actually succeed. Arya is a very smart girl and would think before she acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams and Prophecies Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yes, Sansa gave a few insults, but people often overlook her internal strength it takes to survive and don't give her enough credit. Now I am not saying Arya hasn't survived, because she has and as someone mentioned upthread, she has survived in diverse situations. Yet, people don't give enough credit to Sansa or Bran or Rickon. Sansa could have easily gone crazy/suicidal with the beatings, forced marriage, hell, even through the battle of the blackwater where she knew she could be killed/raped in an instant. Bran - as if having crippled legs were not any worse, he had to travel to the wall, plus having all these visions and still managed to survive, not to mention his age. I understand why people think Arya is the greatest survivor, but I disagree with the fact that Sansa "barely participated in her flight from KL." Based on her circumstances, I think Sansa did quite well. The same could be said for Bran and Arya - they have done quite well based on their circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughnut Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Arya isnt the best survivor, shes surviving but she puts herself in danger.Sansa on the other hand has a maid and a queen sized bed every night...so her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREYJOY4LYFE Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 her life was in danger if she said or acted in the wrong way (cue Joffrey, or even Cersei).Not a chance. Sansa was a valuable hostage while Robb was alive and then the key to the north once he was dead. How well would Tyrion and Sansa's marriage have worked on securing the north for a generation of Lannisters if she was dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Bran literally came back from the brink of death, escaped Theon/the burning of Winterfell, traveled out beyond the wall and survived where even seasoned NW rangers failed to so, faced starvation and exhaustion, kid doesn't get enough credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Arya, hands down she's the energizer bunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tyrion's Whore Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Well, so far it's a tie. They're all alive.Exactly.They've all survived the circumstances they've been thrust into: Bran his quest, Jon his oath, Sansa her imprisonment, and Arya her isolation. We don't know much about what Rickon's had to endure, but obviously he's still kicking so it looks like all five of them are winners.ETA: This assumes, of course, that Jon isn't dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosSeaworthy Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 It's Robb, come on people........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwolf of the Starks Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 1. Arya2. Jon( assuming he survives or comes back)3. Sansa4. Bran/ Rickon5. Robb :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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