If the sea freezes over...?

[Tyler Linn]

If the sea freezes over, won't the Others be able the walk over it and just go around the wall?

[WhiteWalder]

If the sea freezes over, won't the Others be able the walk over it and just go around the wall?

Good idea. I'm not sure how the wards and spells in the Wall work - if you can get by them by going East/West a few hundred yards.

[Free Northman]

If the sea freezes over, won't the Others be able the walk over it and just go around the wall?

The argument is, I think, that the severe magical cold is held back by the magic of the Wall, so that the sea cannot freeze over to the south of it. Only once the Wall falls, can the magical cold breach the Wall's latitude, and cause the temparature to drop sufficiently for long enough to form pack ice south of the Wall.

[Woman of War]

I asked the same question awhile ago and got the answer that the Wall is a magical border and not a physical one, so walking around on a frozen sea would not be possible for them.

I disagree with that theory since exactly this way around may be the purpose of long strong winters. If the Others were confined to behind the wall where would be the threat to mankind? Those few undead could easily be kept at bay.There must be a loophole in the story for the unspeakable danger to creep into everyone's life, thus blowing away the separation of the "game" plot and the metaphysical one.

There will be a Flying Dutchman ship coming south full of Others, bringing terror into the heart of the game.

[WhiteWalder]

I asked the same question awhile ago and got the answer that the Wall is a magical border and not a physical one, so walking around on a frozen sea would not be possible for them.

I disagree with that theory since exactly this way around may be the purpose of long strong winters. If the Others were confined to behind the wall where would be the threat to mankind? Those few undead could easily be kept at bay.There must be a loophole in the story for the unspeakable danger to creep into everyone's life, thus blowing away the separation of the "game" plot and the metaphysical one.

There is also the theory of needing Stark blood for the spells to hold together, and also that there are more spells and wards within Winterfell that need Stark blood to stay viable. If there are spells built into Winterfell, it could also mean that most of the North is also warded against the Others, even if they did make it past the Wall.

[Tyler Linn]

Perhaps the Wall is only there to keep things in (or out) during times of relative peace and that the defenses will break down when the "Winds" finally come.

[JonNonRegis]

Well, we're not talking about a duck pond here.

For such a vast, deep, and massive body of water to freeze, conditions would be so extreme that all humans would be dead already. Ask yourself how many times the Atlantic Ocean has frozen over.

You might ask yourself instead "If the Others can make swords, why can't they make boats, and sail around the Wall?"

Answer: That would be inconvenient for GRRM as a writer.

[WhiteWalder]

Well, we're not talking about a duck pond here.

For such a vast, deep, and massive body of water to freeze, conditions would be so extreme that all humans would be dead already. Ask yourself how many times the Atlantic Ocean has frozen over.

We are not talking about the whole ocean. There are parts of the Atlantic Ocean that freeze within close distance of the shore - especially in bays and inlets where it gets cold. Sea water freezes at about -2 Celsius. There is no magical force that causes sea water to freeze. Don't you watch the Deadliest Catch on Discovery Channel and see half of the Bering Sea freeze in the cold months?

[The Duke]

Cotter Pyke writes from Hardhome about "dead things in the waters", and it's not like they need to breathe, so couldn't they just walk through the sea to wherever they need to go if whatever magic hoots them at bay is broken? They only seen to stop once consumed by fire, stabbed with obsidian (dragonglass), our once their bones are broken as evidenced by summer eating an other (doesn't seem like that would be healthy) and the arm only stopped moving one the bone was broken. Possibly by valyrian steel too if that is the dragonsteel that Sam read about.

[Tyler Linn]

Very inconvenient, but picking the story apart is what fans do. Good point on the intelligence of the Others.

[Woman of War]

Walking around over a wall on land over the sea is possible every five to ten years on the Baltic Sea. I myself have walked from island to island only two years ago, it was extremely cold in the North of Germany and some fools crossed the ice by car. The ice breakers could not break the passage free for deliveries of food and yet we are all still alive and skating :)

[Tyler Linn]

I remember that quote Duke. It reminds me of "Land of the Dead", although I'm sure if the same rules ally.

[WhiteWalder]

Cotter Pyke writes from Hardhome about "dead things in the waters", and it's not like they need to breathe, so couldn't they just walk through the sea to wherever they need to go if whatever magic hoots them at bay is broken? They only seen to stop once consumed by fire, stabbed with obsidian (dragonglass), our once their bones are broken as evidenced by summer eating an other (doesn't seem like that would be healthy) and the arm only stopped moving one the bone was broken. Possibly by valyrian steel too if that is the dragonsteel that Sam read about.

Good point! I didn't think of them being able to just walk under the water. It would make sense because they are dead and animated by magic - no need to breathe.

[The Duke]

Good point! I didn't think of them being able to just walk under the water. It would make sense because they are dead and animated by magic - no need to breathe.

I need to re-read Patchface's limericks, he is the "under the seas" authority in the series, and has been fairly accurate in his predictions.

[JonNonRegis]

GRRM's world is really full of such geographical problems.

Here's another one. We are told that the North was able to resist being conquered by the Andals for six thousand years because they held Moat Cailin and the Andals couldn't get past it.

Well, really, couldn't the Andals have attacked by water? That's just what they did in the south.

The North is vast. There is at least one harbor. The ironborn certainly have no trouble finding places on the west coast to land their ships. The North is also underpopulated, so there is no way every ship-friendly point on the coast could be adequately defended.

Conclusion: The whole idea of Moat Cailin being an unbreachable defense against the Andals for six thousand years is absurd. We just look the other way because that's what we have to do sometimes with these books.

[Rahgh Neqaj]

Answer: That would be inconvenient for GRRM as a writer.

Yeah. I have a feeling that there's a "under some conditions the Others or at least Wights can cross the frozen sea but it's difficult" exists. Maybe the god of the drowned comes in handy here.

Anyway, all the hints that we'll see more of the lands of always winter and what else is going in the far north indicates to me that there'll be a host marching straight to the doors of the Others "Barad-Dûr" where the big final battle takes place. So they might never have the chance to cross a frozen sea in big force.

[Tyler Linn]

There's also the excuse that Moat Cailin has gone down into the pages of history and become a "Big Fish" story. One that Old Nan might tell.

[Leif]

Others aren't undead.

[Corvo Attano]

Others aren't undead.

What he said. You lot may be getting mixed up between Others and Wights.

[TalalOfDorne]

This is getting me to think if it will help them get to Essos as well.