Will the Others get past the Wall?

[the blackfish remembers]

it seems to be all coming together. Jon Snow will survive the stabbing. Right before his hanging Val, Melisandre and the wildlings that were going to go with him to battle the Bolton boys will flee south with him. The White Walkers attack, somehow destroy the wall and begin there descent towards kings landing. Bowen marsh the 999 lord Commander of the Nights Watch catches the blame and becomes known forever as the Commander who Lost the Wall. A "Re-born" Jon Stark,( I just cant say Azor Azzai just yet) leads the fight against the white walkers. He wins the admiration of the people of Westeros (which wont be a lot after the white walkers get through with them) King Tommen doesn't survive the next book, rebel king Stannis doesn't survive the next book, mummer boy targaryan and Jon connington don't survive the next book. Who becomes ruler, Daenyrs or Jon? Who becomes the 1000 Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, in charge of building the Wall?

[TheTowerOfJoy]

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night’s Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

I'm going to say that unless you think that the Night's Watch is obligated to commit mass suicide should the Wall fall, they are still quite sworn to their vows.

I just don't see a situation where the Night's Watch is viable once the Wall is down. It should be disbanded by whomever is in command and it's men should join anyone willing to fight against the Others, but I just can't see it being even slightly effective without the wall being there for them to defend.

[kephv]

Of course they will. They don't even need to destroy it: they could always go around it - by ship, or maybe those underground passages are real and it leads out on the other side.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

Of course they will. They don't even need to destroy it: they could always go around it - by ship, or maybe those underground passages are real and it leads out on the other side.

I think it gets destroyed, or a huge chunk gets blasted out of it at the climax of tWoW.

[Arya Wargface]

I think it gets destroyed, or a huge chunk gets blasted out of it at the climax of tWoW.

I would like to preface my statement with this: I don't really care whether or not the Wall comes down or not, I trust George.

So! I think that would be such a gnarly climax. However, it must be stated that the sheer amount of mass that the Wall is made out of would create essentially a small mountain range. It would be extremely difficult to navigate over this HUGE mass of rubble (I hear ice spiders are good at it though). Also almost everyone on/near the Wall would surely be crushed by ice. This isn't arguing either way, I just wanted to state how much of an impediment it would be for movement of an army over.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

I would like to preface my statement with this: I don't really care whether or not the Wall comes down or not, I trust George.

So! I think that would be such a gnarly climax. However, it must be stated that the sheer amount of mass that the Wall is made out of would create essentially a small mountain range. It would be extremely difficult to navigate over this HUGE mass of rubble (I hear ice spiders are good at it though). Also almost everyone on/near the Wall would surely be crushed by ice. This isn't arguing either way, I just wanted to state how much of an impediment it would be for movement of an army over.

I guess it depends on how it comes down. Maybe it explodes with such force that pieces of it can be found for miles, or maybe it just melts, or maybe it falls on it's side, smashing all the keeps along the wall, or maybe it just tumbles down like an avalanche, leaving a gentle slope up and back down over where the wall used to be :) Who knows what GRRM has in his devious little mind.

Though I do agree that the most likely scenario would be breaking into huge chunks and falling down, which would make for very difficult terrain to pass.

[Arya Wargface]

Ha, I just thought that if it melted, it would most likely flood the North of Westeros. Ironmen would love it!

[TheTowerOfJoy]

Ha, I just thought that if it melted, it would most likely flood the North of Westeros. Ironmen would love it!

Well maybe it would just fill up the tunnels below :) but yeah, that would be quite a lot of water now that I think of it. :)

[Arya Wargface]

Son of a bitch, this was Euron's plan the whole time. Jk jk. Also, while I don't care if the Wall comes down or not, I would be a little sad if there was no invasion of the Others. I guess if they subdued the Others north of the Wall I can't complain, but I want ice spiders in Westeros. How can you bring up ice spiders and not expect us to want more, George?!?

[Ghost's Shadow]

Why can't it be butterflies? :bawl:

[Arya Wargface]

Why can't it be butterflies? :bawl:

Ice butterflies. Make it so, George.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Hmm, giant ice butterflies... at least they could fly over then.

Take that, ice dragons!

[Arya Wargface]

The ice dragons will melt from witnessing that cuteness

[The Bastard of Summer]

I agree that the wall must fall, but I find it a little ironic that the wall was built to keep them out and when they finally decided to come back 8,000 or so years later the wall is gonna get destroyed. Doesn't seem like it really did much.

Agreed. Which is why I think the wall was not built to keep the Other out and at bay, but the soul purpose for the wall was to keep something trapped within it.........here it comes AN ICE DRAGON! The others have found the horn of Joramun the will blow it 3/4 into WoW so the can get their damn dragon back.

That is why it must and will come down.

[First of My Name]

I sure hope they get past, otherwise it would be anticlimactic

[Nezzer]

The Others have to cross the Wall for plot reasons and they better do it quickly, in the beginning of TWOW, I hope. Five books in and the Others still have barely appeared and they still haven't started a war, when there are just two books left. GRRM has to start their conflict and end it in two books. Am I the only one here who can't see this ending well? I think GRRM spent too much time on the game of thrones and left the threat of the Others behind for far too long. IMHO, it would've probably made for better storytelling if they had invaded in the end of ASOS. I'm feeling very pessimistic about the end of this series :(

[Ghost's Shadow]

Well, in any case it's freezing at the Wall, and no ice will turn into water in those temps, so no flooding.

[Ghost's Shadow]

The Others have to cross the Wall for plot reasons and they better do it quickly, in the beginning of TWOW, I hope. Five books in and the Others still have barely appeared and they still haven't started a war, when there are just two books left. GRRM has to start their conflict and end it in two books. Am I the only one here who can't see this ending well? I think GRRM spent too much time on the game of thrones and left the threat of the Others behind for far too long. IMHO, it would've probably made for better storytelling if they had invaded in the end of ASOS. I'm feeling very pessimistic about the end of this series :(

No, not in the beginning, because there's already going to be 2 battles in the beginning of the next book (Meereen and Winterfell), which got cut out of the previous book, so he probably won't do 3 battles consecutively. The POV switches will be a mess.

After/during that, the Jon/Wall situation needs to be cleared up. (His own dreams showed him fighting ON the Wall with a fire sword in his hand, so it's not going to fall and he's going to be there. He doesn't even have that sword yet, who knows where it needs to be fished up.)

There's of course a shit ton that needs to be written about KL just because, and Aegon is approaching. (I really like the fantasy aspect more than the political one, so there's too much KL for me. It's their stupid games that are weakening the realm so much that they might face extinction and I just dislike them and their hunger for power. :) )

I think the Wall's going to be in deep shit more toward the end of the next book, at least 3/4th or so in, so the book after that will be focussed on the Battle for the Dawn (Dany's not even near Westeros yet either, and some of us suspect she'll probably appear when the Others are around the Trident, so we'll have to wait for her to get there first. :rolleyes: Did she conquer KL before that?)

I don't think the end of ASoS was ideal at all for an invasion, but I very much see the point of there being an added two books after that that again don't have much of the Others in them. I'm sure GRRM is just trying to get his pieces of the puzzle in the right locations, but it's taking pretty long, yes. But I suspect that ASoIaF might be an awesome read when it is finished, and it's just the longer wait in between the more recent books that brings on the pessimism. That, and the basic promise of a supernatural invasion, that needs to be really awesome to make it worth it all, that just doesn't seem to be happening yet.

[Frozentree]

I actually don't think it is too late for the invasion. Imagine it happens. Now what? I think 80% of chapters directly related to the war against the others will be either directly battle scenes or from commanders' tents. there are no negotiations, no intrigues, no alliances in play. the conflict is just too simple in nature to be worth 4 books. I think 2 are just enough. The bigger and IMO the more interesting part of the war will be getting everyone into the one alliance against the others. then it will be mostly pew pew.

[Ghost's Shadow]

That's the major problem though: no one believes in the Others any more. It won't be easy to get the whole of Westeros (if that's what you mean) united against them, as they were warned already, multiple times, but no one sent help and believed them. They need to be sighted by about everyone in the South for them to get it, I suppose. Now, will the Others take castle after castle (like in the story, if I remember correctly), or will they just walk to the other side and take some people here and there?

No one even has obsidian to kill the Others, so unless the direction comes from the North and Dragonstone helps, they're pretty doomed.

But excellent planning there, Cersei, to try to get Jon killed. I personally hope she'll face an Other, but that's hoping for too much, I know. :(