Oberyn Martell Cast

[daeneryslover]

Ok now saying over and over again how you "look SO MUCH like Oberyn" is getting creepy as hell and after reading so many pages I'm confused... what is exactly your point ?

My point is that it is unfair to say that Indians/Middle Easterns (my people) have no place in this show as the Dornish people. I'm sticking up for my people. I think that is an appropriate "point" to make. Wouldn't you?

Oh yeah and for what it's worth I'm a 3rd Generation American. This land and it's people are mine and loved by me as well. However my ethnic background and "race" are from the area that I am "sticking up" for.

Thanks for the name calling!

[Turin T28]

How he looks is all good and fine but Oberyn is a tough role to fill so has anyone seen him act? I personally found Oberyn to be the second wittiest character in the story, and he had a lot of parts he spent with Tyrion who is clearly the most witty, so hopefully this guy can pull it off....based on looks he is good but right now I am wondering what Arriane will look like down the road in the upcoming seasons, I know its jumping the gun but unlike most fans I talk to I have a thing for the Dornish princess.

[Azzazel]

Wow, what an insanely horrible thing to say about people of color who were hoping to see somebody who looked like themselves portrayed as a hero for once.

The last thing that we "people of color" need is some white dude treating us like puppies that can't stand for themselves. So, if you really aren't a racist person, just shut the fuck up.

[Alia of the knife]

I'm glad you edited out what you implied about the sexual openness of Middle Easter and Indian people. It's an utterly ridiculous and naive statement.

1. Middle Eastern: Many of these people are Muslim. Are you aware of what Islam says about sex between a married couple? It's quite sexually open. Yes this area is behind the times but the "Sexual Revolution" is a recent thing. Give it 30-40 years and you'll see.

Btw do you realize that in the areas and time periods that you referenced in your post sexuality was not open like it is today?

To be honest the part of your post about Middle Easterns/Indians (that you have edited out) is based on a perception that you have gained from watching/reading about these people instead of interacting with them. I on the other hand have done proper research. Plus guess what? I am one of them!

2. Indian: Karma Sutra.

Another contributor that makes me shake my head...Oh yeah Vincent Perez. Who does he look like. Hmm he certainly looks like me!

Actually, I didn't want to imply that Spanish women during the time of the Fourteenth Century had no morality and were as sexually open as the Dornish.

That's why I edited it out.

BUT, there were reports from Ambassdors to the Spanish Courts from the East who stated that they were shocked by both dress and manner of the Spanish Courtiers, particularly the women.

It's not like today to be sure, but I got the gist that this is a historical reference that Martin was drawing upon.

I'm also aware of Karma Sutra, it's not my culture, so I can't speak to it, and I'm also aware that during this same comparative time, Islam was considered a "liberal" culture, much more so than Christianity at the time.

I'm also aware that while MARRIED couples may revel in their intimacy rather than be shamed by it, I was not aware that in Middle Eastern and Indian cutures, SINGLE, UNMARRIED women could take lovers, and continue to do so after their marriage without penalty.

That sincerely is news to me.

While Islamic women could inherit property, and even own their own business, I was unaware that they could be Leaders of their lands if they were in the proper line of succession, and men could Father illegitimate children to their hearts content without censure or shame if we're comparing this to Dorne.

(Not that Europeans could get away with it either really)

I'm also aware that the behaviors of the Aristocracy in ALL cultures were all quite "open" because they didn't believe the laws applied to them, so in that regard there may be some cultural similarity between the licentious and sexually open nature of the Martells, and the Kings and Princes of India and the Middle East.

I'm aware of harems also, but the guy was MARRIED to most of them, and the rest were bound Concubines, so within the bounds of protected contract and the offspring legitimate.

And we don't know yet if the Martells and the Dornish themselves were okay with polygamy since we don't seem to have any textual evidence that they practiced it, though they may have looked the other way regarding Tarygaryen polygamy.

And just so you know, I live in the Metropolitan DC area, and interact as well as work with people from all backgrounds and make it a habit to take an individual as I meet them, and not stereo-type them by culture or religion as the individual will always be unique.

Your also right that I don't know the intimacies of these cultures because the people from these cultures who are my friends don't volunteer their private lives, and I don't ask them: :devil:

"Gee Davina, what do you think of sex.............? :shocked:

I make it a personal policy not to get into cultural debates, religious debates, or politics, but take each poster as they come regarding the current subject, and my point is that if the Author has made known what his intentions are regarding the characters, then to actually avoid these misunderstandings, they, (D&D), should not change anything, but remain faithful to the text.

If everyone knows the rules, they everyone knows what to EXPECT.

[daeneryslover]

Actually, I didn't want to imply that Spanish women during the time of the Fourteenth Century had no morality and were as sexually open as the Dornish.

That's why I edited it out.

BUT, there were reports from Ambassdors to the Spanish Courts from the East who stated that they were shocked by both dress and manner of the Spanish Courtiers, particularly the women.

It's not like today to be sure, but I got the gist that this is a historical reference that Martin was drawing upon.

I'm also aware of Karma Sutra, it's not my culture, so I can't speak to it, and I'm also aware that during this same comparative time, Islam was considered a "liberal" culture, much more so than Christianity at the time.

I'm also aware that while MARRIED couples may revel in their intimacy rather than be shamed by it, I was not aware that in Middle Eastern and Indian cutures, SINGLE, UNMARRIED women could take lovers, and continue to do so after their marriage without penalty.

That sincerely is news to me.

While Islamic women could inherit property, and even own their own business, I was unaware that they could be Leaders of their lands if they were in the proper line of succession, and men could Father illegitimate children to their hearts content without censure or shame if we're comparing this to Dorne.

(Not that Europeans could get away with it either really)

I'm also aware that the behaviors of the Aristocracy in ALL cultures were all quite "open" because they didn't believe the laws applied to them, so in that regard there may be some cultural similarity between the licentious and sexually open nature of the Martells, and the Kings and Princes of India and the Middle East.

I'm aware of harems also, but the guy was MARRIED to most of them, and the rest were bound Concubines, so within the bounds of protected contract and the offspring legitimate.

And we don't know yet if the Martells and the Dornish themselves were okay with polygamy since we don't seem to have any textual evidence that they practiced it, though they may have looked the other way regarding Tarygaryen polygamy.

And just so you know, I live in the Metropolitan DC area, and interact as well as work with people from all backgrounds and make it a habit to take an individual as I meet them, and not stereo-type them by culture or religion as the individual will always be unique.

Your also right that I don't know the intimacies of these cultures because the people from these cultures who are my friends don't volunteer their private lives, and I don't ask them: :devil:

"Gee Davina, what do you think of sex.............? :shocked:

I make it a personal policy not to get into cultural debates, religious debates, or politics, but take each poster as they come regarding the current subject, and my point is that if the Author has made known what his intentions are regarding the characters, then to actually avoid these misunderstandings, they should not change anything, but remain faithful to the text.

If everyone knows the rules, they everyone knows what to EXPECT.

Your response is very hard to follow. It is all over the place. I don't doubt your intelligence I just can't follow it. It makes a point and then counters it. Plus my point was purely about sexuality as I was not talking about women's rights, feminism, or sexism (although those topics are near and dear to my heart). Also almost no monotheistic religion allows sex before marriage. If you believe that Christianity/Judaism/Catholicism allows that you are severely uneducated in these religions. However I do think you are aware of this fact. Also I don't even know what religion you imply 14th Century Spain follows...

Anyways what GRRM (if that is the author you are referring to said) backs up what I said. Please read the whole post on his blog instead of a snippet of it. Again I'd like to state that I look more like Amoka's portrait of Oberyn (the one GRRM referenced; pic http://awoiaf.wester.../Oberyn_Martell) more than Pedro does. I'm not trying to bash on Pedro, I've stated my positive belief in him. I just want to dispel the notion that Middle Easterns/Indians can't be Dornish...

[ser shrek]

Wow by far the strangest posts I've read in a long while. Let's be honest. I look like Oberyn Martell more than any actor you can find (I'm a medical student not an Actor). I have a darker complexion and I'm Indian.

Wow talk about full of yourself much, not to mention the avatar. Lmao. You look nothing like Oberyn at all. You wouldn't fit anywhere in the GOT universe.

[daeneryslover]

Wow talk about full of yourself much, not to mention the avatar. Lmao. You look nothing like Oberyn at all. You wouldn't fit anywhere in the GOT universe.

Thank you for your kind words!

Back on topic: Pedro will make a fantastic Oberyn :)

[ser shrek]

Indians/Middle Eastern would fit more Ghiscari with their bushy eyebrows and beards. Far as I know, Martells don't have beards or any stubble so I don't think they can grow it, like some Latinos.

[Gregor's Nancy Boy]

Back on topic: Pedro will make a fantastic Oberyn :)

You would make an awesome Oberyn. :blink:

Edit: Lol I didn't read the quote. Came into this thread at a bad time... I don't want to goad any arguments...

[Doonebringer]

My first post! Yay!

Anyway, he kinda looks like Jeremy Renner, Olivier Martinez and Liam Neeson rolled into one. Not to mention a little Steve Zahn. :)

(Sorry if someone already mentioned that.)

I just wish he was a bit darker, but the make up will probably do the trick.

[Kim87]

Thank you for your kind words!

Back on topic: Pedro will make a fantastic Oberyn :)

You are one odd fellow. Are you being serious? Or is this some sort of elaborate prank on your part? And when the author clearly specifies what kind of ethnicities he imagined for the majority of the Dornish, the debate is over. Indian and Middle Easterns cannot be Dornish. Take a bloody trip to Spain.

[I know I know]

And when the author clearly specifies what kind of ethnicities he imagined for the majority of the Dornish, the debate is over.

You think any of the people who threw the term "racist" around at D&D, forumgoers, and fan-artists will feel any remorse, now that they've been unambiguously proven wrong?

Nah. What they'll do is quietly decide that GRRM is a "racist" too. He looks pretty racist, don't he. All white and hateful looking.

[daeneryslover]

You are one odd fellow. Are you being serious? Or is this some sort of elaborate prank on your part? And when the author clearly specifies what kind of ethnicities he imagined for the majority of the Dornish, the debate is over. Indian and Middle Easterns cannot be Dornish. Take a bloody trip to Spain.

You think any of the people who threw the term "racist" around at D&D, forumgoers, and fan-artists will feel any remorse, now that they've been unambiguously proven wrong?

Nah. What they'll do is quietly decide that GRRM is a "racist" too. He looks pretty racist, don't he. All white and hateful looking.

This is my last time responding to you both because you are both stubbornly incorrect and you use name calling. Honestly you are probably 13, but hey I'll respond.

Anyways Kim87 this is not a prank and yes I have been to Spain (Many times to be precise. Guess what? Many of the natives there thought I was native to their country). Also you clearly did not read what the author said.

1. I've always pictured the "salty Dornish" as being more Mediterranean than African in appearance - Indians/Middle Easterners can look Mediterranean and they most certainly do. See exhibit A: Me. I'm using myself as an example not to be "creepy" but because it's easy for you to look at my avatar.

2. Greek, Spanish, Italian, Portugese, etc. Dark hair and eyes, olive skin. Pedro Pascal is Chilean. - You do realize that Chile is in South America not in the Mediterranean coastal region correct? Please don't resort to the "but South America was colonized by the Spanish people argument". Alexander the Great hit up my region WAYYY before that...

^btw there is a huge contradiction in what GRRM said. Probably because that was just a passing comment on his blog that he posted. You probably don't realize the contradiction so I will point it out for you. Northern African countries are Mediterranean too. Again I think he was trying to be politically correct in his response so it isn't very clear. Africa has a huge range of physical traits that it's people can possess. Therefore Africans could portray the Dornish as well since they are Mediterranean. That is the contradiction.

3. (Check out Amok's version of the Red Viper, that's how I saw him. Or Magali Villenueve's beautiful and sexy portrait of Princess Arianne) - Look at the photos then look at me. I look like Oberyn and Arianne looks like she could be my sister.

@Bookpurist I have never used the term "racist". Please stop implying that I did/do. Also why would I read/support a series written by someone who I believe to be racist. Please stop putting words into my mouths. Also I've probably dated more white women than you have. Actually I can guarantee I have. Also I guarantee I have more white friends than you do. White people are not hateful looking.

In conclusion Indians/Middle Easterners can be in this show and can portray the Dornish people.

Thank you for reading maybe I'll get an intellectual response. Nah not from you two ;)

[Kim87]

This is my last time responding to you both because you are both stubbornly incorrect and you use name calling. Honestly you are probably 13, but hey I'll respond.

Anyways Kim87 this is not a prank and yes I have been to Spain (Many times to be precise. Guess what? Many of the natives there thought I was native to their country). Also you clearly did not read what the author said.

1. I've always pictured the "salty Dornish" as being more Mediterranean than African in appearance - Indians/Middle Easterners can look Mediterranean and they most certainly do. See exhibit A: Me. I'm using myself as an example not to be "creepy" but because it's easy for you to look at my avatar.

2. Greek, Spanish, Italian, Portugese, etc. Dark hair and eyes, olive skin. Pedro Pascal is Chilean. - You do realize that Chile is in South America not in the Mediterranean coastal region correct? Please don't resort to the "but South America was colonized by the Spanish people argument". Alexander the Great hit up my region WAYYY before that...

^btw there is a huge contradiction in what GRRM said. Probably because that was just a passing comment on his blog that he posted. You probably don't realize the contradiction so I will point it out for you. Northern African countries are Mediterranean too. Again I think he was trying to be politically correct in his response so it isn't very clear. Africa has a huge range of physical traits that it's people can possess. Therefore Africans could portray the Dornish as well since they are Mediterranean. That is the contradiction.

3. (Check out Amok's version of the Red Viper, that's how I saw him. Or Magali Villenueve's beautiful and sexy portrait of Princess Arianne) - Look at the photos then look at me. I look like Oberyn and Arianne looks like she could be my sister.

@Bookpurist I have never used the term "racist". Please stop implying that I did/do. Also why would I read/support a series written by someone who I believe to be racist. Please stop putting words into my mouths. Also I've probably dated more white women than you have. Actually I can guarantee I have. Also I guarantee I have more white friends than you do. White people are not hateful looking.

In conclusion Indians/Middle Easterners can be in this show and can portray the Dornish people.

Thank you for reading maybe I'll get an intellectual response. Nah not from you two ;)

You are such a strange person. Unlike you, I am European, I live in a European country and I have had the honor of living in Spain, more specifically Huelva which is in Andalucía. And looking at your picture, you do not look Spanish. You look Indian/Middle eastern. Believe what you wish.

His nationality is Chilean, he is probably a mix of different ethnicities like a lot of people in South America, but he does look more European than anything else.

I suppose next you will argue that there is not a big difference between people from let’s say Morocco or Spain, or let’s say Algeria and Italy. Let me stop you right now. There is and you can see the difference. When people say Mediterranean they normally mean the European part. But you are already writing so much rubbish that has no basis in reality, so for my part this discussion is over. So in conclusion Indians/Middle Easterners cannot be Dornish unless you are delusional.

[Dornish Beto]

Hello All, I'm brand new and don't want to step on any toes or make any waves....but my take on this is to stick to what GRRM said about the Dornish and Oberyn himself.

Of course my forum name and ethnicity betrays where my allegiance lies .

GRRM stated that he based the Dornish \ Dorne on the Welsh, Spain and a bit of Palestine. I was born here in the states, but my family is from Spain. The provinces of Avila, Extremadura paternally... Murcia and La Mancha and the Navarra maternally....so I'm going to try to stick to what I know.

In appearance, Spaniards run the gambit from very pale and fair to an olive complexion of varying shades, but this skin tone dominates in every area but the extreme Northwest, in the provinces of Asturias and Galicia, but people are for the most part still brunette.

The Salty Dornishman is, per GRRM , Olive in skin tone....olive does not equate "dark brown" it is what it is, Olive. I'm a light olive complexion but if I get a good amount of sun it darkens, which leads us to the Sandy Dornishman. It is specifically stated that they are "burned brown" by the Dornish sun, it my opinion this still does not support a Sub Saharan "Afican" physical make up, nor an Indian \ Pakistani.... but simply a dark olive. Some will bring up the Berbers to refute this, but the tribes of the Riff were famous for their red hair, those of the Atlas mountains had Mediterranean look. Berbers are genetically close to the indigenous Iberians, who were a confederation Mediterranean peoples. The Stony Dornishmen, in my mind are the Northern Spaniards, the Asturians, Basques and Gallegos. Even the Welsh who are well known for being dark when compared to the rest of the British Isles are of Iberian, not Celtic descent.

After all that, Pedro Pascal, in my mind is a perfect selection. Even if he is Chilean by nationality, he is obviously genetically mostly Spanish \ Iberian not indigenous Amerindian. I have Mexican friends who are European in appearance, even though their country of origin is Mexico.

I'm sure they will darken his hair, or he'll wear a wig. I've seen plenty of pictures of him and he has an olive complexion which borders on the dark side. In my mind I pictured Oberyn's features a little more "pointy", but not enough to gripe about.

I have a feeling, if they ( D & D ) follow the introduction of the Dornish from the book , Oberyn's fellow Dornish will be well represented.....Sandy, Stony and Salty. It gives them the opportunity to represent a new culture and have some fun with it.

By the way, Oona Chaplin ( Talisa) is Chilean, American and Natalia Tena (Osha) is Spanish...her folks are from Extremadura and the Basque country.

Dornish 'Beto

[Conchobar]

Actually to be fair I am Pakistani. However my grandparents were born in India as you may be aware that the India-Pakistan Partition occurred in 1947. My mother is from South Pakistan and my father is from North Pakistan. However the southern tip of Pakistan is not as south as Salem, India. A map would do better justice than I can at explaining this though...

Please research the definition of "Olive Skin". It is a spectrum and yes it does not have to mean dark skinned but dark skin is part of the spectrum. My father is much darker than I am (see Avatar) and he has a blond hair/blue eyed uncle. Plus if i marry a natural blonde/blue eyed girl it's very possible that I have children that are blue-eyed/blonde although yes it is unlikely but possible.

Well we really can't question them since they've done a great job! Yeah a Bollywood actor could have done it justice but that isn't how casting works in Hollywood unfortunately. I do think Pedro will nail it though!

I'm definitely not slighted by the casting, I love it. However the comments on this message board offended me.

That's me in my avatar. Find me someone that looks more like him. Besides the age and thin eyebrows which can be alleviated through make-up. Remember the photos you find of the actors will be them with make- Obup already...

Yes that is me and Pedro will do amazing!!

You look nothing like Oberyn in my head. Except for your skin tone.

[ser shrek]

Blah blah, look at my picture.

Middle Easterns/Indians have curly bushy hair, and yours looks unnaturally straight so I'm assuming you used a straightner. That's why it's really hard to picture them as Dornish. Dornish look more Spanish because of their natural hair and their skin actually looks mixed. Sure Middle Eastern/Indians can have a light complexion but you can always see a dark undertone.

[Alia of the knife]

Hello All, I'm brand new and don't want to step on any toes or make any waves....but my take on this is to stick to what GRRM said about the Dornish and Oberyn himself.

Of course my forum name and ethnicity betrays where my allegiance lies .

GRRM stated that he based the Dornish \ Dorne on the Welsh, Spain and a bit of Palestine. I was born here in the states, but my family is from Spain. The provinces of Avila, Extremadura paternally... Murcia and La Mancha and the Navarra maternally....so I'm going to try to stick to what I know.

In appearance, Spaniards run the gambit from very pale and fair to an olive complexion of varying shades, but this skin tone dominates in every area but the extreme Northwest, in the provinces of Asturias and Galicia, but people are for the most part still brunette.

The Salty Dornishman is, per GRRM , Olive in skin tone....olive does not equate "dark brown" it is what it is, Olive. I'm a light olive complexion but if I get a good amount of sun it darkens, which leads us to the Sandy Dornishman. It is specifically stated that they are "burned brown" by the Dornish sun, it my opinion this still does not support a Sub Saharan "Afican" physical make up, nor an Indian \ Pakistani.... but simply a dark olive. Some will bring up the Berbers to refute this, but the tribes of the Riff were famous for their red hair, those of the Atlas mountains had Mediterranean look. Berbers are genetically close to the indigenous Iberians, who were a confederation Mediterranean peoples. The Stony Dornishmen, in my mind are the Northern Spaniards, the Asturians, Basques and Gallegos. Even the Welsh who are well known for being dark when compared to the rest of the British Isles are of Iberian, not Celtic descent.

After all that, Pedro Pascal, in my mind is a perfect selection. Even if he is Chilean by nationality, he is obviously genetically mostly Spanish \ Iberian not indigenous Amerindian. I have Mexican friends who are European in appearance, even though their country of origin is Mexico.

I'm sure they will darken his hair, or he'll wear a wig. I've seen plenty of pictures of him and he has an olive complexion which borders on the dark side. In my mind I pictured Oberyn's features a little more "pointy", but not enough to gripe about.

I have a feeling, if they ( D & D ) follow the introduction of the Dornish from the book , Oberyn's fellow Dornish will be well represented.....Sandy, Stony and Salty. It gives them the opportunity to represent a new culture and have some fun with it.

By the way, Oona Chaplin ( Talisa) is Chilean, American and Natalia Tena (Osha) is Spanish...her folks are from Extremadura and the Basque country.

Dornish 'Beto

Great historical analysis.

I would just add to that the fact that Martin lives in New Mexico and as an American he is likely drawing from the images of the South West as well with it's stark beauty, deserts, beaches and equally spicy food and alcohol that you would never turn your back on.

In Arizona, there are dust storms the likes of which can't be imagined.

But there is also House Martell Sigil that looks almost exactly like the Mexican, Aztec Sun imagery.

Aztec Sun: http://th07.deviantart.net/fs6/PRE/i/2005/109/0/b/aztec_sun_by_livercake.jpg

House Martell Sigil: http://www.wall321.c...l321.com_24.jpg

[Dornish Beto]

Great historical analysis.

I would just add to that the fact that Martin lives in New Mexico and as an American he is likely drawing from the images of the South West as well with it's stark beauty, deserts, beaches and equally spicy food and alcohol that you would never turn your back on.

In Arizona, there are dust storms the likes of which can't be imagined.

But there is also House Martell Sigil that looks almost exactly like the Mexican, Aztec Sun imagery.

Aztec Sun: http://th07.devianta...y_livercake.jpg

House Martell Sigil: http://www.wall321.c...l321.com_24.jpg

Hi Alia, Thanks for the kind words. WOW ! You read my mind ! I was just about to post the EXACT same thoughts ! I grew up in Arizona and the SW and felt that GRRM put some of that into Dorne as well. My hometown is high plain \ mountain steppe and at over 6000 ft above sea level has the roasting sun and cold snaps that remind me of my fathers home province of Avila in the Castillian Meseta.

I think he even slipped in some South Western cuisine, stuffed peppers ( Chile Rellenos) sugar skulls common with Dia de los Muertos celebrations along with snake meat.

There was a restaurant near my hometown that served a mean rattlesnake .

All in all Dorne is a place with a varied population. Quentyn Martell is not classically Dornish in appearance. Nor are his compadres, the Yronwoods and Gerris Drinkwater.

The Fowler twins are described as fair, as is Edric Dayne. Then you have Timeon who is described as the typical short, lithe and swarthy Dornishman.

I always felt a kinship with the Sandy Dornishmen as I'm from the high desert and a "typical" Iberian in appearence.

DB~

[tyrions sliced nose]

he looks great, cant wait!

Hope the first scene of him is tyrion meeting him on the road and he tells tyrion how cersei twisted his cock when he was a baby.

perfect intro