Ser Uncle P Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 When Tommen removes Ramsey Snow's "taint of bastardy" he also declares the Bastard to be a Bolton now. Likewise Stannis proposes to decree Jon Stark in place of Jon Snow. Anyone wonder why we never see Bloodraven and Bittersteel dubbed Brynden Targaryen or Aegor Targaryen? Their half brother Daemon chose his house name once made legit but the others are only known as "Rivers" apart from their nicknames.Is it only in the extreme case of the bastard son being the last (known) heir, like in Jon and Ramsey's case. After all Aegon IV had Daereon II and his 4 sons to carry on his lineage ( assuming he was Daeron's father etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Night's Prince Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Despite what fat Aegon did by legitimizing them, the world, Westeros, never allowed them to forget who they were and therefore in the records, they all still have their bastard names. This might be Jon Snow's fate as well, but since he'll probably be integral in saving the world...doubtful. Good thread. It's interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpionspupil Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 They're better remembered by their nicknames and sigils anyways.Better a Bastard than a Targaryan I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faydra Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Ramsay had to do some pretty awful deeds to keep this name. "Never call him that! Ramsay Bolton, not Ramsay Snow, never Snow, never, you have to remember his name, or he will hurt you."I doubt that Bloodraven and Bittersteelare capable of anything as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think it was because if they did then they would be in line to be ruler of their house being a legitimate Targ (and Blackfyre). So Bloodraven didn't want to be a legitimised Targ because he didn't want to threaten Daeron's claim to the throne, or have people think he was a threat to him. The same with Bittersteel, as he was loyal to Daemon, and fought for him to be King, not himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Uncle P Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 True. Also neither Rivers was popular, Brynden had a Sauron-esque reputation as Hand, while Aegor would only have been loved by Blackfyre die hards. In Daemon's case, his memory would have been the stuff of dreamers and singers, and was obviously respected by his enemies for chivalry and prowess, so Daemon wasn't going to be remembered as Waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrice Drowned Veteran Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Daemon Blackfyre was a bastard born from two Targaryens. Therefore, he had a claim. Brynden Rivers and Aegor Rivers were bastards born from lowborn mothers and therefore had no claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Brynden Rivers and Aegor Rivers were bastards born from lowborn mothers and therefore had no claim.Both of them were still born the noble mothers, thus they weren't lowborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groat Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Considering Brynden Rivers supported the Targaryens, he basically denied his legitimization.Aegor Rivers though, I kind of wonder why he never took the name Blackfyre, he was fighting for their cause and was the brother of the first Blackfyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Uncle P Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 Both of them were still born the noble mothers, thus they weren't lowborn.Brynden's mum was a Blackwood; Aegor's was a Bracken, both Riverlands nobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Considering Brynden Rivers supported the Targaryens, he basically denied his legitimization.Aegor Rivers though, I kind of wonder why he never took the name Blackfyre, he was fighting for their cause and was the brother of the first Blackfyre.Daemon was the oldest and was the one actually handed the Blackfyre sword.True. Also neither Rivers was popular, Brynden had a Sauron-esque reputation as Hand, while Aegor would only have been loved by Blackfyre die hards.In Daemon's case, his memory would have been the stuff of dreamers and singers, and was obviously respected by his enemies for chivalry and prowess, so Daemon wasn't going to be remembered as Waters.Daemon was a legend and beloved by virtually everyone it seems, but it seems a hundred years of Targaryen propaganda has ruined even his reputation. Bittersteel despite his lack of warmth and constant anger seemed popular enough himself. He was respected and appreciated as a great knight. It's only propaganda that seems to have changed the current perception of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanAgro Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 This point has always annoyed me theres no logical reason they wouldn't be named Targ after their father legitmised them or taken up house names like Blackfyre did Hell BR could have named his house "Dark Sister" after his sword.BR annoys me generally,why call a Targ bastard Brynden,what no more Targ family names left when he was born? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 This point has always annoyed me theres no logical reason they wouldn't be named Targ after their father legitmised them or taken up house names like Blackfyre did Hell BR could have named his house "Dark Sister" after his sword.BR annoys me generally,why call a Targ bastard Brynden,what no more Targ family names left when he was born?Dark Sister would be a lame last name, nor was he likely given that sword by Aegon IV. Moreover, he was probably called Brynden as that is a Riverlands name and that is where is mother was from and Aegon probably didn't care all that much about what his children were called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeRhaegar Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I always found that strange as well i guess they didn't want to take on the name of the respective house they supported Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hawk Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I always thought their nicknames became their last names like Daemon and SheiraDaemon Blackfyre Brynden BloodravenAegor Bittersteel Sheira Seastar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groat Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Daemon was the oldest and was the one actually handed the Blackfyre sword.So, why couldn't Aegor take the name as well? They were blood brothers and Aegor was fighting for their cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 So, why couldn't Aegor take the name as well? They were blood brothers and Aegor was fighting for their cause.I am not sure, but Bittersteel never tried to steal the throne from his brothers sons. He promised to put a son of Aegon on the Iron Throne and it seems he is finally about to do it. I think he considered the Blackfyres the true royal family and wanted to differentiate from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Hero Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I am not sure, but Bittersteel never tried to steal the throne from his brothers sons. He promised to put a son of Aegon on the Iron Throne and it seems he is finally about to do it. I think he considered the Blackfyres the true royal family and wanted to differentiate from them.Or he took the opposite side of Bloodraven just to spite him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Or he took the opposite side of Bloodraven just to spite him.I doubt it. Bittersteel was instrumental in making Daemon rebel and I imagine that Bloodraven loved Daemon too. Bittersteel seems to have been angry with being a bastard and Daemon felt the same. Daemon had a good claim and Bittersteel probably disliked Daeron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Hero Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I believe Aegor was angry at Bloodraven for taking Shiera Seastar away from him. There's a quote somewhere"Bloodraven and Bittersteel both loved the same woman and the realm bled for it" something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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