Don Roberto Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 :agree: We all know the Starks are going to come back and win. And if at the end of the day Jon Snow sits on the throne. How realistic is that? I have never heard of the hidden prince becomes King theory in real life only in fantasy stories is this able to happen. The only bastards to become Kings in our world were the ones that had been acknowledged all their lives by their fathers.Well, to be true Jon's ascension is entirely in the fans' minds. The closest we have in the books of Jon becoming a king is when Robb considers him for his successor as king in the north (and who knows what became of that). Elsewise Jon becoming Azor Ahai and ruling Westeros alongside Dany is entirely a fanbase fantasy, and George can't be blamed for it.As for the series' praised realism, I have never thought of it event-wise (thought it certainly is, being grounded in so many actual history accounts), but characterization-wise. The world seems coherent and lively, the dynamics of its people are complex and grounded in its own rules, and things rarely happen out of the blue. Many small details that are usually overlooked in other fantasies are quite present here, be the looming presence of sickness, the effects of weather on activities both great and small, and even something as mundane as feeding your army or people can have drastic consequences to your story or the overall plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groat Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 It doesn't matter to me but him not saying anything about the caches of wildfire while him and his family still live there is quite odd.It's pure ego. He probably expected to be praised for what he did, only to have Ned Stark demanding he be sent to the NW and Selmy probably demanding his head. He was called trash and filth for what he saw as an honorable act. The threat was averted, and he took the wholy child-like, egotistical, view of "Fine, no one wants to ask me what happened, I won't bother expaining it". Not comendable of course, but certainly sympathetic, and it wasn't something done out of malice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 "What happened to that boy who wanted to be Arthur Dayne?" A young Jaime Lannister wanted to be heroic, honorable, and altrusitic. He very much so saved KL out of a sense of altruism.Altruism and selfishness mixed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 It's pure ego. He probably expected to be praised for what he did, only to have Ned Stark demanding he be sent to the NW and Selmy probably demanding his head. He was called trash and filth for what he saw as an honorable act. The threat was averted, and he took the wholy child-like, egotistical, view of "Fine, no one wants to ask me what happened, I won't bother expaining it". Not comendable of course, but certainly sympathetic, and it wasn't something done out of malice.Yeah, pretty much. As soon as Ned came into the throne room and was looking at Jaime with those eyes, KL's future was put in peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I certainly cannot sympathize with Jaime for not telling the Crown about the wildfire. I get why he didn't tell Ned and the others during the Sack, but come on, 17 years later and no one except Brienne knows. I can't, every time I even think about it I get so angry at Jaime. Then again, I don't really get his thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Killed? I'm pretty sure it says maimed, as well. That's just a misrepresentation of the truth.If His Grace had woken I would have killed him there and then. He would not have been the first king to die upon my sword... but you know that story, don’t you?” He slashed at a tree branch, shearing it in half. “As I was fucking her, Cersei cried, ‘I want.’ I thought that she meant me, but it was the Stark girl that she wanted, maimed or dead.” The things I do for love. “It was only by chance that Stark’s own men found the girl before me. If I had come on her first...” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I certainly cannot sympathize with Jaime for not telling the Crown about the wildfire. I get why he didn't tell Ned and the others during the Sack, but come on, 17 years later and no one except Brienne knows. I can't, every time I even think about it I get so angry at Jaime. Then again, I don't really get his thought process.Yeah, I do like Jaime but that is a tough one to argue against. There really is no excuse for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephenee Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Thanks. It was indeed maimed or dead.Jaime's main flaw was that he was Cersei's toy. I think the point of the redemption arc was to eliminate that flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Killed? I'm pretty sure it says maimed, as well. That's just a misrepresentation of the truth.Instead of claiming that people are lying, why don't you actually look for textual evidence before stating something that you don't know or don't remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groat Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Yeah, I do like Jaime but that is a tough one to argue against. There really is no excuse for that.I'm not excusing it either, but he has been living at KL this whole time too, so he clearly didn't see a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I'm not excusing it either, but he has been living at KL this whole time too, so he clearly didn't see a threat.Was that really for him to decide? Jaime came back to KL, and even after all of his experiences in the Riverlands, he still has not told anyone about the wildfire. There have been so many times when that wildfire could've been set off, (i.e, the huge fire the day of the riot in KL, the BOBW etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groat Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Was that really for him to decide? Jaime came back to KL, and even after all of his experiences in the Riverlands, he still has not told anyone about the wildfire. There have been so many times when that wildfire could've been set off, (i.e, the huge fire the day of the riot in KL, the BOBW etc.).Again I'm not condoning it, just pointing out him keeping silent about it was not done out of malice or an actual desire to harm KL. Basically, Jaime not telling didn't doom KL, Aerys and the pyromancers should get the blame for that for being the ones to actually put the wild fire in caches around the city.The sad truth is Jaime simply doesn't think about it or care. Which is very much in line with Jaime's character, he lives in the moment and doesn't dwell on "what if's" and past mistakes. The events of the sack happened, Jaime is where he is, and he's living his life. Obviously it was irresponsible of him, but I'm still sympathetic towards him for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephenee Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Was that really for him to decide? Jaime came back to KL, and even after all of his experiences in the Riverlands, he still has not told anyone about the wildfire. There have been so many times when that wildfire could've been set off, (i.e, the huge fire the day of the riot in KL, the BOBW etc.).Why would they believe him? They'd accuse him of trying to take glory for killing Aerys, just as they did before. Jaime didn't see the point in telling them, and neither do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Why would they believe him? They'd accuse him of trying to take glory for killing Aerys, just as they did before. Jaime didn't see the point in telling them, and neither do I.Really? Really? Think about what you've just said, considering the fact that the Lannister host was in KL for days, along with Tywin Lannister who would've certainly believed his son, as would any of the reasonably lords and soldiers in KL, because everyone knew that Aerys was insane. You can't claim that Jaime is a hero and then say this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeyed chicken Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I've always thought 'realistic' was praised a little too much. Book one begins with ice demons/zombies and one of the only three characters rising from the dead, proceeds to be a book with living direwolves and lots of talk of dragons, and ends with the resurrection of dragons.. Book 2 proceeds to show an immune fire witch, shadow monsters, the house of the undying, continuaition of the dragons so we know they're completely real, and a very capable assassin who can whisper dogs to attack there masters...Just because it throws in a lot more politics and war doesn't mean its 'realistic' to me. it was always fantasy. :agree: Well said.And if we're being realistic don't we have to lawyers and judges and sherriffs? :)And the pale mare wouldn't be the only case of a plague going through a camp of soldiers (I don't recall the numbers, but I believe more Civil War soldiers died of disease than of battle wounds). There'd also be bloody flux/diarrhea, cholera, small pox, malaria, yum...and more of these guys would have been scarred by the pox (syphilis, gonorrhea), with all the camp followers running around (see Johnny Depp's The Libertine, to get an idea what the pox can do....).The real difference I see between a ASOIAF and LOTR (for example) or H.Rider Haggard is in the tone. The reverence for all things Elvish has no parallel in ASOIAF. The reverence for nature is very muted if there at all.It's a very New Jersey view on a type of story that is often freighted with religious overtones. This is like the mafia version of the King Arthur story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephenee Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Really? Really? Think about what you've just said, considering the fact that the Lannister host was in KL for days, along with Tywin Lannister who would've certainly believed his son, as would any of the reasonably lords and soldiers in KL, because everyone knew that Aerys was insane. You can't claim that Jaime is a hero and then say this.Erm... dude. He was already labeled a Kingslayer before he could even explain himself.. obviously his words didn't mean much after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwell Gamgi Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I think it'll be shitty if he ends it on a tragic note. It's what everyone's expecting and what no one really wants for the fictional realm or their favorite fictional characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Erm... dude. He was already labeled a Kingslayer before he could even explain himself.. obviously his words didn't mean much after that.LOL. I'm going to say this one last time and hope that your love for Jaime won't cloud your logic. His father and his father's host were in KL for days, that was more than enough time for Jaime to tell his father what Aerys planned to do. Lord Tywin would certainly believe his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephenee Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 LOL. I'm going to say this one last time and hope that your love for Jaime won't cloud your logic. His father and his father's host were in KL for days, that was more than enough time for Jaime to tell his father what Aerys planned to do. Lord Tywin would certainly believe his son.I think we have a misunderstanding here. I've already said Tywin would believe him.And if Jaime only cared about the Lannisters surviving the wild fire, he could've simply told Tywin the truth about the wildfire caches and they could've left King's Landing. Tywin would have believed him, unlike Robert and Ned.But Tywin didn't have much power anymore, compared to people like Jon Arryn, Robert and Ned and even Barristan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 But Tywin didn't have much power anymore, compared to people like Jon Arryn, Robert and Ned and even Barristan.Robert forgave Tywin and kept him as Lord Paramount of the West, he certainly had enough power and credibility to tell the rest what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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