Jon and Aegon babyswapping

[THElogic]

I was only half-serious when I posted a similar theory in the thread about the requirements to become the sword of the morning, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. So here's my admittedly crackpottish theory and I hope someone can find holes in it, because I don't really want it to be true.

Lord Eddard makes a promise to protect his sister's son. The baby however looks like a Targaryen (purple eyes and silver hair). He makes a stop at Starfall to return ser Arthur's bones. Ashara introduces him to his nephew who looks like a Stark. Howland Reed swaps the babies without telling Ned and Ashara so that no one will suspect that Lyanna and Rhaegar had a baby.

Ashara who is upset for having her son stolen from her, takes Rhaegar's boy to Essos. She becomes Septa Lemore, and names the boy Aegon.

So Jon is actually the son of Ashara Dayne and Brandon Stark while Aegon the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Thoughts?

I was thinking that Aegon and Jon were both Rhaegar's sons yet the parents that everyone seems to think were the opposite and Aegon was Lyanna's and Jon was Elia's. I think we're on the same page, I just have a lot more tinfoil on my hat.

[WeaselPie]

I was thinking that Aegon and Jon were both Rhaegar's sons yet the parents that everyone seems to think were the opposite and Aegon was Lyanna's and Jon was Elia's. I think we're on the same page, I just have a lot more tinfoil on my hat.

My hats getting a little crumpled - maybe I need to make a new one.

So you mean those babies were swapped?

[Jory Cassel]

And also this from GRRM himself:

"The reason I am never specific about dates and distances is precisely so that people won't sit down and do this sort of thing.

My suggestion would be to put away the ruler and the stopwatch, and just enjoy the story."

No offense, but I wouldn't interpret this as a free pass to make up the most ludicrous theory possible.

And in case your theory still resolves around the person we know as Jon Snow bein born Aegon Targaryen, care to adress my post upthread?

[THElogic]

My hats getting a little crumpled - maybe I need to make a new one.

So you mean those babies were swapped?

A double swap if you will. Fake baby murdered, Elia's son to Winterfell and Lyanna's son to Essos. Possibly the two baby's identity was even lost and Varys thinks he's putting Aegon on the thrown when in reality its Jon Snow and Aegon is sitting on the Wall getting carved up in the Ides of Marsh. I know it's insane crackpottery but I had this weird thought and I've been trying to get evidence I'm just being really lazy on my re-read.

(edit: spelling)

[WeaselPie]

No offense, but I wouldn't interpret this as a free pass to make up the most ludicrous theory possible.

And in case your theory still resolves around the person we know as Jon Snow bein born Aegon Targaryen, care to adress my post upthread?

How is this particular theory any more ludicrous than any other theory floating around?

Aegon is older than Robb.

Aegon was born before the start of the Rebellion, the absolute minimum amount of time he has to be born before is two month (my estimate), realistically, maybe three or four.

Robb, however, is conceived some time into the rebellion, the absolute minimum would be two month.

That means Aegon is (at least) thirteen month older than Robb, Ned could NEVER pass him off as younger than Robb, no matter whether Catelyn examined him closely or not.

I already answered that, sorry I didn't quote you.

Putting aside Robb's birth date, which even the good people at SSM agree has some questions, Jon was born within a month, give or take, or possibly even earlier by 2 months, of the Sack of King's Landing, and that is their math, not mine.

And I put in that quote by GRRM well after I'd already worked on this theory. It was for levity, I didn't grab at it as a "free pass."

[WeaselPie]

A double swap if you will. Fake baby murdered, Elia's son to Winterfell and Lyanna's son to Essos. Possibly the two baby's identity was even lost and Vary thinks he's putting Aegon on the thrown when in reality its Jon Snow and Aegon is sitting on the Wall getting carved up in the Ideas of Marsh. I know it's insane crackpottery but I had this weird thought and I've been trying to get evidence I'm just being really lazy on my re-read.

That's essentially where I was going with this, except the "fake baby" was Ashara's. I think Lyanna did have a son... much later, and yes I think that's the one that went to Essos and came back as (f)Aegon, the mummer's dragon.

The only thing I can't figure is how they were switched and by whom. Not enough info!

[THElogic]

That's essentially where I was going with this, except the "fake baby" was Ashara's. I think Lyanna did have a son... much later, and yes I think that's the one that went to Essos and came back as (f)Aegon, the mummer's dragon.

The only thing I can't figure is how they were switched and by whom. Not enough info!

Yeah exactly. For some reason, I had a thought like that and I just remember thinking "Hey, that would be pretty crazy, I wonder if it's plausible." Figured I'd post it here to see if it gets ripped apart by the fact checkers on this board.

[WeaselPie]

Yeah exactly. For some reason, I had a thought like that and I just remember thinking "Hey, that would be pretty crazy, I wonder if it's plausible." Figured I'd post it here to see if it gets ripped apart by the fact checkers on this board.

I think some of them are working on it... time for another layer of tinfoil, I think.

Did you read this thread? You might enjoy it if we're on the same page. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/97892-waking-dragon-from-stone-the-reveal-of-rlj/

[Jory Cassel]

How is this particular theory any more ludicrous than any other theory floating around?

I already answered that, sorry I didn't quote you.

Putting aside Robb's birth date, which even the good people at SSM agree has some questions, Jon was born within a month, give or take, or possibly even earlier by 2 months, of the Sack of King's Landing, and that is their math, not mine.

And I put in that quote by GRRM well after I'd already worked on this theory. It was for levity, I didn't grab at it as a "free pass."

How does Jon's age play into the point I made, which was solely about Jon aka Aegon being perceived as younger than Robb, which I deem impossible?

Also, what exactly do you mean with "the good people at SSM", because I have not seem an SSM from Martin in regard to Robb's birth yet, could you point me to it?

[WeaselPie]

How does Jon's age play into the point I made, which was solely about Jon aka Aegon being perceived as younger than Robb, which I deem impossible?

Also, what exactly do you mean with "the good people at SSM", because I have not seem an SSM from Martin in regard to Robb's birth yet, could you point me to it?

Here is the quote (again) from an article on SSM about R+L=J: link

"We know from this e-mail that Jon’s birth is 8-9 months prior to Daenerys’s, and that Daenerys is born almost precisely 9 months after the death of Rhaegar and the Sack of King’s Landing (I: 25). This would place Jon’s birth within one month, give or take, of the Sack. As we know the war lasts “close” to a year which is often just referred to as a “year” (I: 96, 233), suggesting 10-11 months is likelier than 9 months. Given this, his conception seems to have been between 1-3 months into the war. Interestingly, this contradicts suggestions from Catelyn and Ned that Jon was concieved some time after Robb’s conception (in itself an event taking place several months into the war), so either GRRM is mistaken or he has accidentally clarified a piece of information which was intended to be obfuscated in the series..."

Note: they don't cite an SSM about Robb's birth from GRRM, but they certainly noticed the discrepancy.

[Jory Cassel]

Here is the quote (again) from an article on SSM about R+L=J: link

"We know from this e-mail that Jon’s birth is 8-9 months prior to Daenerys’s, and that Daenerys is born almost precisely 9 months after the death of Rhaegar and the Sack of King’s Landing (I: 25). This would place Jon’s birth within one month, give or take, of the Sack. As we know the war lasts “close” to a year which is often just referred to as a “year” (I: 96, 233), suggesting 10-11 months is likelier than 9 months. Given this, his conception seems to have been between 1-3 months into the war. Interestingly, this contradicts suggestions from Catelyn and Ned that Jon was concieved some time after Robb’s conception (in itself an event taking place several months into the war), so either GRRM is mistaken or he has accidentally clarified a piece of information which was intended to be obfuscated in the series..."

Note: they don't cite an SSM about Robb's birth from GRRM, but they certainly noticed the discrepancy.

What exactly are you getting at? Your source, a very credible one imo, places Jon's birth at one to three month into the rebellion. My estimate for Robb's conception in my first post was two month into the rebellion, so Ned's and Catelyn's suggestions don't even have to be in discordance with this (even though I think they are, but that's something else).

Either way, Jon and Robb are very close in age, as opposed to Aegon, who is significantly older than Robb and could impossibly be passed of as younger, so what is your alternate scenario for bridging this discrepancy?

[WeaselPie]

What exactly are you getting at? Your source, a very credible one imo, places Jon's birth at one to three month into the rebellion. My estimate for Robb's conception in my first post was two month into the rebellion, so Ned's and Catelyn's suggestions don't even have to be in discordance with this (even though I think they are, but that's something else).

Either way, Jon and Robb are very close in age, as opposed to Aegon, who is significantly older than Robb and could impossibly be passed of as younger, so what is your alternate scenario for bridging this discrepancy?

@Jory, no that says his CONCEPTION was 1-3 months into it, not his birth.

It places Jon's birth within a couple of months (likely before since they stretched GRRM's estimate) of The Sack of KL when "Aegon" was killed as a "screaming whelp." *

I can't make that part more clear.

As for Robb, yes there are some issues with that part of it, as I just pointed out SSM also noticed.

But this theory is about Jon being Aegon, not about Robb's age.

edit: sry, used the wrong term

[corbon]

@Jory, no that says his CONCEPTION was 1-3 months into it, not his birth.

It places Jon's birth within a couple of months (likely before since they stretched GRRM's estimate) of The Sack of KL when "Aegon" was killed as a "screaming whelp." *

I can't make that part more clear.

As for Robb, yes there are some issues with that part of it, as I just pointed out SSM also noticed.

, on Dragonstone

But this theory is about Jon being Aegon, not about Robb's age.

edit: sry, used the wrong term

There seems to be a significant amount of confusion here.

Robb is conceived around 2-4 months into the war. We estimate this from the timings of travels, battles etc, and the limited time Ned and Catelyn had together.

Jon is born 0-1 months after the end of the war. We estimate this both from Lyanna's Bed of Blood and fever meaning a recent (0-2 weeks at most) birth, that Ned had to travels several hundred miles after wars end, and because Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany by 'word of god'.

Danerys is born around 9 months after the end of the war. She was conceived in the final days before Aerys sent Rhaella and Viserys to Dragonstone. We know this both from her ages at various times and other descriptions, and her timing separation from Jon snow.

The war lasted around 12 months.

Therefore Jon was conceived around 3-4 months into the war. Much the same time as Robb, possibly slightly after. There is no contradiction here.

Jon is around the same age as Robb, officially younger, but within a month or so, just close enough they could possibly be the other way around (though there is no need for them to be so).

Aegon was born several months before the war, and was over a year old when he died at the end of the war. We know he was born before the war because he is in Dany's vision of Rhaegar and Elia when Rhaegar names him. That must be before Rhaegar took off with Lyanna, well before the war started. There are several other clues, including a comet over KL at his birth and the dates of his birth and death (only by year, but when you go through the events of those years and form timelines, he dies in late 283 having been born in 282, IIRC).

Aegon is over a year older than Robb and Jon, who are very close in age. Dany is most of a year (8-9 months) younger than them.

There is no chance Jon could be Aegon.

[Ygrain]

How is this particular theory any more ludicrous than any other theory floating around?

I already answered that, sorry I didn't quote you.

Putting aside Robb's birth date, which even the good people at SSM agree has some questions, Jon was born within a month, give or take, or possibly even earlier by 2 months, of the Sack of King's Landing, and that is their math, not mine.

And I put in that quote by GRRM well after I'd already worked on this theory. It was for levity, I didn't grab at it as a "free pass."

Which is more than a year after Aegon was born. Hence the idea of the two swapping is ludicrous.

[Ludd]

Weasel

Another possibility for Dany is that she is the daughter of Rhaella and Arthur Dayne. This would explain why she looks like Ashara. Dany would STILL be a Targ - just not quite as nutty as Viserys.

[Ygrain]

Weasel

Another possibility for Dany is that she is the daughter of Rhaella and Arthur Dayne. This would explain why she looks like Ashara. Dany would STILL be a Targ - just not quite as nutty as Viserys.

Dayne made a trip from ToJ prior the Sack to have a quickie, without anyone noticing his presence in KL?

[Jory Cassel]

@Jory, no that says his CONCEPTION was 1-3 months into it, not his birth.

It places Jon's birth within a couple of months (likely before since they stretched GRRM's estimate) of The Sack of KL when "Aegon" was killed as a "screaming whelp." *

I can't make that part more clear.

As for Robb, yes there are some issues with that part of it, as I just pointed out SSM also noticed.

But this theory is about Jon being Aegon, not about Robb's age.

edit: sry, used the wrong term

Fuck, of course I meant conception not birth, sorry for that.

"Some issues"? I am sorry, but did you read my original post? Aegon being passed off as younger than Robb is still crucial to your scenario, and this is simply impossible due to the large age difference, hence, Jon is not Aegon.