what is the song of ice and fire?

[Twist]

Just wondering if there were any theories or clues in the text? Is it metaphorical? Or is it literally a song/tale/story?

Also where does the phrase come from? I can only remember dany's vision of rhaegar in the hotu mentioning it in the books (other than being the title of the series), nowhere else.

Any thoughts?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

IMHO Jon is the song of Ice(Lyanna) and Fire(Rhaegar).

[Ghost's Shadow]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's going to be multiple meanings to it once the books are finished, but for now we can only guess.

[Dornish Whine]

Song could mean a few things, I suppose. It could mean a 'romance'; Jon is (theoretically) the result of marriage between Ice (Lyanna Stark) and fire (Rhaegar Targaryen). So he is the embodiment of the two elemental forces that seem to hold the strongest sway on the fate of Westeros. It is also possible that he and Dany will become an item... so that would be another romance between Ice and Fire. However, I think the safest interpretation would be 'story'. His story can be seen as the story of the struggle between Ice and Fire, or the finding of balance between the two. If the story become Dragons vs Others, Jon is in position to be caught between the two and may have to reign in the the destructive potential of both (yes Dragons are just as dangerous as the Others and may need to be restrained/killed to protect the realm).

Of course Jon may be dead... making his the song of dirt and worms.

[jet199]

In the Norse creation myth the world is made where the forces of ice and fire meet so the song of ice and fire is life.

[Chun-Li]

Song could mean a few things, I suppose. It could mean a 'romance'; Jon is (theoretically) the result of marriage between Ice (Lyanna Stark) and fire (Rhaegar Targaryen). So he is the embodiment of the two elemental forces that seem to hold the strongest sway on the fate of Westeros. It is also possible that he and Dany will become an item... so that would be another romance between Ice and Fire. However, I think the safest interpretation would be 'story'. His story can be seen as the story of the struggle between Ice and Fire, or the finding of balance between the two. If the story become Dragons vs Others, Jon is in position to be caught between the two and may have to reign in the the destructive potential of both (yes Dragons are just as dangerous as the Others and may need to be restrained/killed to protect the realm).

:agree: It has multiple meanings. GRRM said this about the title,

I like titles that work on several different levels where the title seems to have an obvious meaning but, if you think about it, also a secondary meaning, perhaps even a tertiary. That's what I'm striving for here.

[MoIaF]

:agree: It has multiple meanings. GRRM said this about the title,

I was about to say that.

For me it's the story of Jon's parentage, the story of North and South, Other's and Dragond, Jon and Dany (not necessary as a couple). There are a lot of things throught the books that represent both Ice and Fire.

The story is more that just about one person, it's a ensemble, and you can find Ice and Fire sprinkled throughout the story.

[Pero the first of His name]

Remember Ned?

How he made us all sad...

At King's Landing he could only end up dead.

Evenings he could have enjoyed Cat in their bed.

Gods, why was someone else not chosen in his stead?

And to the king whose armies in rebellion he once lead,

Robert, he promised that to the prince his daughter would be wed.

Lots of dangerous people around him he had

Yet he did not listen to what about trust LF said.

After about black hair he had read

Never was a there better time for the words of incest to be spread.

Not doing so made him prisoner of the crimson red.

Although for mercy, Sansa had plead,

Joffrey commanded to have his head.

Oh, the horror would beat the humour even out of Edd.

Nevertheless, at least GRRM did not make him undead...

[Tyrion's Third Wife]

I always assumed Ice = Others and Fire = Dragons.

[Balerion06]

Song is also often used as euphemism for battle.

[Twist]

Song is also often used as euphemism for battle.

Like singing swords too I suppose.

[Twist]

I wonder where rhaegar got the phrase from and what his interpretation of it was when he said aegon's was the song of ice and fire.

Any more interpretations?

[Northbound]

. If the story become Dragons vs Others, Jon is in position to be caught between the two and may have to reign in the the destructive potential of both (yes Dragons are just as dangerous as the Others and may need to be restrained/killed to protect the realm).

Oh boy. Better run while you can! The Dragon lovers are going to be hot on your trail! Even if, what you said was logical!

The Song, mostly like has several meanings. But I'm truly hoping that it is Jon's song(which worries me, about his long term safety.)

[Dornish Whine]

I wonder where rhaegar got the phrase from and what his interpretation of it was when he said aegon's was the song of ice and fire.

I think he got it from the prophesy that he read. I do not think we have any more specifics than that, unfortunately. Something he picked up from a book that inspired him to take up martial training and try to first become, then sire the Prince that was Promised.

[Dicer]

Did not GRRM give an interview where he talked about the titles of the individual books being about the Game of Thrones but that the main title (ASOIAF) was to remind us of what is important: The story on the wall and the threat of the Others.

Bran is ice and Jon is fire or it could be Old Gods are ice and R'hlor is fire and so on and so forth.

[WhiteWalder]

IMO it refers to the duality of Jon's bloodline. The prophecy in the HoTU refers to one person who's story is about ice and fire. It makes the most sense to me.

Good summation:

Song could mean a few things, I suppose. It could mean a 'romance'; Jon is (theoretically) the result of marriage between Ice (Lyanna Stark) and fire (Rhaegar Targaryen). So he is the embodiment of the two elemental forces that seem to hold the strongest sway on the fate of Westeros. It is also possible that he and Dany will become an item... so that would be another romance between Ice and Fire. However, I think the safest interpretation would be 'story'. His story can be seen as the story of the struggle between Ice and Fire, or the finding of balance between the two. If the story become Dragons vs Others, Jon is in position to be caught between the two and may have to reign in the the destructive potential of both (yes Dragons are just as dangerous as the Others and may need to be restrained/killed to protect the realm).

Of course Jon may be dead... making his the song of dirt and worms.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

Just wondering if there were any theories or clues in the text? Is it metaphorical? Or is it literally a song/tale/story?

Also where does the phrase come from? I can only remember dany's vision of rhaegar in the hotu mentioning it in the books (other than being the title of the series), nowhere else.

Any thoughts?

This is a good topic. I propose to consider that at its most fundamental level, the Song of Ice and Fire is merely what it claims to be. It is a song being sung (or a story being told) by the Singers of the Songs of the Earth (CotF).

The CotF are presented as being from the dawn of days and speaking the True Tongue. So it seems to me that, in the fantasy context of the series, we can reasonably understand them to be essentially eternal beings, present from the beginning until the end.

Perhaps the arc of their existence, which currently seems to be in peril, mirrors the arc of the existence of greater reality.

The CotF observe the lives and works of men and other creatures and weave their songs about them. This could be their way of preserving history.

The Song of Ice and Fire is merely one tale in many in this rich history, of infinite songs sung by the CotF. This particular one is centered around the two opposite poles of Ice and Fire. The greater concepts of Ice and Fire can be represented by the coming Winter/Others and the return of Dragons.

Then this greater ice-fire relationship can perhaps be seen reflected onto smaller scales, like the supposed Jon-Dany relationship, creating a consistent harmonious theme to the overall song amongst its various different musical threads (or character arcs).

If there is any validity to this notion, then it would open up the question of whether or not the CotF's song is a chronicle of history (possibly made more fanciful in song than in reality), a catalyst of history (using some deep powerful magic), or both.

Note: This is just a fanciful notion that intrigues me, not a fully fleshed-out theory.