Florina Laufeyson Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 There isnt that huge of a crack in your terracotta, young man. The idea that Mance had known where the crypts are was one that has been brought up before. Just why would Hodor be creeped out by the crypts at that time? Surely, if there was a stranger in there creeping around...So i do think that is a possibility and we shouldnt rule it out. Also, i thought Mance being caught was also :bs: just like Stannis being dead. That letter is full of nonsense. Some theorize Mance wrote it. Not so sure about that. I don't think Mance is the Hooded Man because he seemed to be the one orquestrating the other murders (with the spearwives) and one spearwife said they didn't kill the Walder boy.I think the Hooded Man is Benjen and there could be some evidence on thatNah, Mance isnt the Hooded Man. I think its either Benjen or someone else deeply tied to the Starks. (like Howland) And yeah...Little Walder i think it was, got murdered and none of the spearwives had any clue about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I like that, about Jon's dream of going to the crypts and Bran's dream where Ned was in the crypts and was sad about something to do with Jon. Could there be something hidden in Lyanna's tomb? That would certainly be an unexpected way to learn of Jon's heritage. :) I certainly think it's possible that there's something in Lyanna's tomb, could it be a Targaryen wedding cloak soaked in blood? Maybe the crown of blue winter roses given to Lyanna by Rhaegar... Maybe even a note from Ned or Lyanna for Jon... I don't think Mance is the Hooded Man because he seemed to be the one orquestrating the other murders (with the spearwives) and one spearwife said they didn't kill the Walder boy. I think the Hooded Man is Benjen and there could be some evidence on that You're probably right that it's not Mance, but I'm not convinced it's BenJen either, though that does make a little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 There isnt that huge of a crack in your terracotta, young man. The idea that Mance had known where the crypts are was one that has been brought up before. Just why would Hodor be creeped out by the crypts at that time? Surely, if there was a stranger in there creeping around... So i do think that is a possibility and we shouldnt rule it out. Also, i thought Mance being caught was also :bs: just like Stannis being dead. That letter is full of nonsense. Some theorize Mance wrote it. Not so sure about that. Nah, Mance isnt the Hooded Man. I think its either Benjen or someone else deeply tied to the Starks. (like Howland) And yeah...Little Walder i think it was, got murdered and none of the spearwives had any clue about that. Yeah, I'm not so sure Mance wrote it either. It had to be Ramsey, otherwise some things don't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Yeah, I'm not so sure Mance wrote it either. It had to be Ramsey, otherwise some things don't make sense. Right... My guess is it was written by Ramsey after torturing the captured spear-wife to glean information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Right... My guess is it was written by Ramsey after torturing the captured spear-wife to glean information. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet-N-SourRobin Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 "Ramsay, but with bad intel. and/or bluffing" seems to be the most plausible authorship of the letter. But I loves me a good "Mance wrote it/Stannis wrote it/Asha, somehow, wrote it" theory, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 "Ramsay, but with bad intel. and/or bluffing" seems to be the most plausible authorship of the letter. But I loves me a good "Mance wrote it/Stannis wrote it/Asha, somehow, wrote it" theory, too. This is exactly what I think. I'm 99% sure it was Ramsey, but I wouldn't mind it if it was one of those 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Right... My guess is it was written by Ramsey after torturing the captured spear-wife to glean information. Shit, i forgot all about the captured spearwife. You are likely correct. Im guessing it was the one who was swapped out for Jeyne. Im guessing she mentioned Mance but not much outside of that and died for her troubles. (bummer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Shit, i forgot all about the captured spearwife. You are likely correct. Im guessing it was the one who was swapped out for Jeyne. Im guessing she mentioned Mance but not much outside of that and died for her troubles. (bummer) Well, we don't know for sure that Squirrel, or Holly (if she survived the arrows) or Frenya was captured, but that's my best guess as to what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiasyd Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Hmm, I don't remember. Ned and Robert went down there as soon as Robert arrived, right? I think they were blocked or something in aDwD, after the fire, and that's why Lady Dustin's men couldn't find them, but Theon knew how to enter Your're right, I just check the chapter in which Ned and Robert visit the crypts, and there is no mention about it being locked - it is something that happened afterwards, perhaps when Rickon and Shaggy were skulking in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Someone got up the description of Able and it is basically the same as the description of Mance. However Mance shouldn't be looking like Mance he should be looking like Rattleshirt and wearing a big ruby that Mel can control him through. So Mance has found a way to removes Mel's glamour and probably her control of him. However if Able/Mance wanted to suddenly disappear at Winterfell he could go back to looking like Rattleshirt and pretend to be a northern soldier so Mance could be the Hooded Man. However I don't see why Mance would want to go back under Mel's control (unless he has found a way of disconnecting her from the ruby and using it's magic himself) so I think he is probably hiding in Winterfell with the four spearwives who didn't go with Theon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Balerion Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I like your Squirrel Arya comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Balerion Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 However Mance shouldn't be looking like Mance he should be looking like Rattleshirt and wearing a big ruby that Mel can control him through. So Mance has found a way to removes Mel's glamour and probably her control of him. However if Able/Mance wanted to suddenly disappear at Winterfell he could go back to looking like Rattleshirt and pretend to be a northern soldier so Mance could be the Hooded Man. However I don't see why Mance would want to go back under Mel's control (unless he has found a way of disconnecting her from the ruby and using it's magic himself) so I think he is probably hiding in Winterfell with the four spearwives who didn't go with Theon. This is a very good point, Mance is using a glamour (so we don't know what he really looks like). He can take off the glamour or change it but he definitely can disguise himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faydra Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The first part is brilliant. Now I'm certain that Ramsey lied about having Mance.I'm not so sure about the second one. Staying so much in the crypts would make it almost impossible for him to travel north (in mid autumn) and raise an army in such a short period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 The first part is brilliant. Now I'm certain that Ramsey lied about having Mance. I'm not so sure about the second one. Staying so much in the crypts would make it almost impossible for him to travel north (in mid autumn) and raise an army in such a short period of time. Well, I'm assuming the army was pretty much raised before he left, since we've been hearing about it since the beginning of the series. I think that the timeline works if he left sometime during or before the harvest festival, I don't think later could've worked. But, well, who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Doing some thread surfing between this and another thread that discusses similar things, moved my question to the more recent one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lady Raven Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I never really believes that letter either... I mean, Mance being captured and skinned by Ramsay? I know he is insane but still.. it's Mance!! I love the theory that he is hiding in the crypts.. very clever. And it supports the common thread that something is hiding there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Yeah I think Ramsay just got some of the Spearwives, and tortured the truth about Mance out of them. The letter is full of obvious lies, and I think Ramsay's statement that he has Mance is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myk Lonmouth Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Ramsay wrote the letter. Probably after Manderly runs the Frey's into Stannis ice fishing holes and brings back his trick sword as "proof" of Stannis' death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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