WInds of Winter theory

[lmgross25]

Okay hear me out before you judge me. So I was reading some of the past threads about Jon and him being L+R=J if that is what you are looking for that isn't what you will find here.

So it got me to thinking about the Political situation right before the Tourney at Harrenhal. Which got me to thinking about Lyanna and why Rheagar would take her. This entire series is about family and claims to the throne. Yet it's also about how well can you make people see one thing and something else is really going on. I don't think that Harrenhal was the first move in the war against the Targs

Lady Dustin tells Theon in ADWD that Lord Rickon had southern ambitions (through his maester who is a hightower by birth possible the son of Marwyn and the citadel was playing it's own game of thrones they wanted to control the prophecy. That's why there was a book in winterfell about dragons they thought that the starks were the key to the problem get back to that in a minute) and that marrying his heir to his own vassal would not do. Why? because those swords are already sworn to house Stark. I want you to think about what Rickon was trying to do with the marriages of Lyanna and Brandon.

Lyanna and Robert if they were to marry Robert's family is next in line for the throne by right of blood. Robert's grandmother was the niece of Aemon targ who was related to the King his brother. Plus through the male line they are Targs not Baratheons they are only Baratheons because Orys married the daughter of the last storm King. So it's through the female line of the house that they are Baratheon.

Then he wanted to marry Cat Tully to his heir Brandon the Tully's having no royal blood what so ever but the castle on the trident and her father is the lord paramount of the riverlands. Riverrun would make a nice fall back castle. Plus they can call on all of the houses of the River. With the Frey's acting as a middle stopping post between the two kingdoms.

Then there is Ned being fostered in the Eyrie to a lord that doesn't have a direct heir. His sister is of no help because she's married and under the law(slavic by the way the book is set up) doesn't stop her from inheriting the throne of the Vale but it does stop her from ruling in her own right and who ever she marries they would be the lord of the Vale. Then her son but as by this time she hasn't had any male children so that's of no help because it places her daughters in the same position that Mary of England was in. Men wanting to marry her because they wanted her crown. Her husband Philippe of Spain left his wife after she refused to hand him the English treasury and the English fleet in the hands of Spain plus her parliment denied signing the documents that gave him the title of King not King consort which are too totally different things. Which is why King Henry went through some much trouble of tying to sire a male heir. That way the house of Tudor would continue through the Male line not the male branch and the female line.

It's the bloodlines.

Peep this. It's brillant and if I hadn't been a detective and did some research I would have totally missed this and it gives reason for the Tourney, why Rheagar choose Lyanna over Cersi and what not. It was about consolidation of the royal bloodlines.

Okay So Aegon the First marries both of his sisters, now Maegor(rhaenys son) had no issue. Yet viserya' son Aenys who like at as not married his sister through Rhaenys has Jaehaerys who marries Alyanne now that's not the cool part this is where is get's twisted and it starts to makes sense.

Jaehaerys hands the throne over to Viserys I who marries first an Arryan and has Rhaenys who started the civil war a dance with dragon so she's half arryan. Then Viserys has a son by a hightower Aegon II this causes the war which neither survives. So the throne passes to Aegon III who is 1/3 arryan when he marries back into the Arryan family. He leaves the throne to his brother who is 1/3 arryan. Now before I continue I would like to point out that one of Aegon's daughter's Daena the mother of the BlackFyre pretenter is part arryan and that's how the arryans are related to the Blackfyre. Now Viserys II marries his sister to produce AegonIV. He produces 4 great bastards but the one's that matter would be the males who one is all targ but because of outside marriages is part arryan(Daemon) then the next is 1/2 targ and 1/2 bracken(Bittlesteel) the last the albino is 1/2 blackwood and 1/2targ(BloodRaven who happens to be north of the wall and he's waiting for the realms of men (Jon) but I will get back to that in a minute, that had dragon and warg dreams and was marked as a wizard). Now if the arryans had joined the fight with Robb in the war of the 5 kings it would have been all of the targ bastards families fighting under the same banner. I'll get back to that.

Now Aegon's son marries into Dorne making it a part of the seven kingdoms so now the Martells are apart of the Targ family bloodline. Now we don't know who but we know that after that alot of the Targ heirs and males marry outside of the family but as they don't inherit the throne they don't matter to this topic. So by the time that Aerys and his sister marry this would be the bloodlines of the Targs that we know of.

Rheagar would have family ties to the Hightowers(who married into the Tyrell and Tarly family), Arryan and the BlackFyre's and have a common ancestor with the Brackens and the Blackwoods from the trident, then there is the Martells of course. Then we know from outside sources Robb when talking to his mother and his marriage to Westerling that they provided brides for house Targ on three separate times. We know that the first Jeyne Westerling that married Maegor had no children. So Grrm said that westerling would be important. If something where to happen to her brother she stands next in line to inherit the westerling lands. Keep that in mind for future reference.

Now let me get back to the House of Arryan, House GreyJoy and Lannister and other house of the Vale(now some of this is speculation but it fits so bare with me).

We know that Cat tells Robb that he needs to name an heir. Now my first thought is why not say Robin but as he's a child I think that's why Cat didn't even mention him as a possibility. Then she mention that his great grand aunt married in the the Junior house of Royce and from there her three daughters marries in to the Waywood, Belmore and she thinks the Templeton family. All of these houses have been in the Vale before the conquest of the Andals. Now she neglects to mention who the Lord of winterfell at this time decides to marry. Now the best way to consolidate power and claims is through marriage. So it stands to reason for Ned to have any claim to the IT then his great gran father is married to an arryan. Meaning that all of they have common ancestors and that gives the Starks a claim the IT because of their common ancestor to all three families.

So if you are trying to make a break from the throne. Which is what I am suggesting Rickon was trying to do. By marrying Lyanna to the heir to the throne of the Seven Kingdoms if something where to happen to the main branch of Targs. The Baratheon's would be the junior cache of house Targ. Unlike the BlackFyre's they actually have legally binding marriages and children from these unions which is different from Daemon and him raising against the realm because he wasn't born in wed lock. Moving forward.

Ned as a son of both house Stark and Arryan from the major cache through the female line would stand as Jon Arryan's as jon's closet male relative from the same line he's from. Note that the uncouth Arryan's stayed true to the crown because they were trying prove that unlike their lord they were loyal. Yet if Jon and co. lose the war with jon and ned dead then the Vale would fall to them to rule. IT had nothing to do with aerys was open handed when pleased. They didn't want a northerner to rule the Vale. So this was the simplest way to accomplish that without the blood being on their hands. The blood would be on Jon. I always found if strange that Aerys would over react like that and demand their heads. To wear a crown is to always be looking at your family and anticipating betrayal. So it stands to reason that he was demanding that he send their heads because they have serious claims to the throne if they should win a rebellion. By removing anyone with royal blood outside of the major cache of the house he's safe guarding his family. Only it appeared to the realm that Aerys was being cruel and that it was the madness that made him demand their heads and killing Brandon and Rickon. The realm doesn't know that Rickon was plotting to rebel and leave the realm of the iron throne and go back to the north being an independant nation, I'll get back to that.

Little know fact about mediveal law. IF a woman is heir to property if she is unwed and kidnapped the kidnapper can force her to marry him and then her lands and incomes become his own because he's a male and her husband. That's food for thought later will I get into that . Just know that Ellinor of Aquitaine was in such a position which is why she married her cousin the french king and has they had 2 daughters after years of marriage they got annulment on the ground that they were first cousins before they wed. Which brings me to my point when she married the king her land got swallowed up by the french and became french territories until she married in to the English family and her lands passed to her son. Making his a very wealth king and ruler of broad lands in continental Europe and England Just a side note on history and how it ties into my theory. Back to that in a minute.

Now the Maester Wylis is a hightower by birth with an anchmaester as a father. After he heads north he starts whispering into the lord of winterfell's ear. Telling him that out of all the kingdoms his is the one that is least governed by the IT. The last time someone of royal birth came to the North was when the dragonknight came north and fought one of your ancestors. Now the Starks are a line of kings unbroken for 8,000 years it was the dragons that Torrenhen bent the knee to and the dragons are all dead. Then there's this prophecy that there will be a PTWP and he will bring back the dragons but what if you could control that prophecy. Marry your daughter to the lord of stormsend. Through their children the lines of house Arryan, Targ, Baratheon and Stark will come together all under one child. Not to mention that this child will as so share ancestors to the Hightowers,Martells,and the Lannisters through the marriage when Castely Rock and the Starks went to war against the Ironborn who also have ties to house Stark through the GreyStarks. When King Jon Stark finished his war with the Iron born to get them out of White Harbor gave the wolf's den to his son and to join the peace with marriage to his daughter(this is speculation but it makes sense right everything after my Gullstown theory so pick it apart if you want but it makes too much sense in my mind not to be true. We have seen time and time again that the way to seal a pact is through the marriage of the two houses. So even though this is theoretical it fits ).

So let me draw the lines of who the Royal families that the Starks are related to even remotely with a common ancestors. The lannisters, GreyJoys, Arryan, Martell, Baratheon, Bracken(kings at one time), Blackwood (which is why they are fighting to this day over a crown that hasn't exsisted for thousands of years but they are still a line of kings) Not to mention that the Lannisters are related to the First Men because Lann the Clever was rumored to be decantent from a line of the first men. His daughter married into an andalos family. The only house that they don't have ties to is house Tyrell and that's because they were stewards that were given Highgarden after their lord died. Yet Robert's mother was a florent and they have ties to the Garden Kings. So there you have it. By Lyanna and Rheagar would to have any children their child would be a child of the realm. Every major kingblood line would be combined into their child. That's what Jon is. The only vow that Jon has ever pledged would be to the realm. He's saying kings words when he's saying his Night's watch vows. Not to mention that the Starks have a decent that was King beyond the wall, who stole Brandon the daughterless who leaves a half stark king and half wildling king behind. There is power in kings blood and Jon has it coming out of his veins from every kingdom of the realm.

"Now my watch begins,It shall not end until my death. I am the sword in the darkness, The watcher on the wall, I am the fire that burn against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleeper, the shield that guards the realms of men"

Now I'm going to break those down and turn them to an oath that of a king swearing fealty to the realm. Now my reign begins, it shall not end until my death (that's self explanitor), I am the defender against injustice, the watcher to keep the realm safe, the life that burns against death, the life that brings hope, the horn that sounds the call, and the protector of the realms of men" He makes this pledge in front of the God's and soon after while he is praying to those same gods he burns the wright. He is burning his vows into his flesh. Blood magic the prayer, the vows and then the fire that spills his blood of the realms of men.

Now we are lead to believe that the Tourney from Harrenhal was a ploy set up by Rheagar to meet as many lords as possible to call a grand council to remove his father from power. Now we know that Rickon's maester is a hightower. A member of the Kingsguard is a hightower and the citadel is no longer serving the realm but its serving itself. So let's say that this maester let's it slip and word gets back to Gerold Hightower. He knows how Aerys would deal with Ned, Robert, Lyanna, Rickon, Jon and Benjen expecitally with at this point Tywin is still hand. Total annihaliation of all of their houses. Dead fathers and sons lead no future rebellions. So he goes to the Prince and he calls the Tourney. He wants to take measure of Ned, Brandon and Lyanna. Notice the Tully's don't seem to be at the Tourney. I do believe that Rheagar found Lyanna attractive and he's been studing this problem about the PTWP. At the time of the Tourney he has no heirs and his wife is fraile. Plus she doesn't have all of the blood connections that Lyanna could bring to their child(probably not thinking all of that but at least some of it.)Yet him laying the crown of love and beauty was two parts. The first part was to show that he fancied her. The next part was to let Robert and company that he knows about the plot that they are cooking up. Which after he learns that his wife can't have anymore children. This only prompts him to look at the northern girl again. He's probably been thinking about the problem the entire time that he's back at the red keep waiting for Aegon to be born. So anyways he finds out that his wife can't have anymore children and that Aegon isn't even his. He takes the sign that the coment brought as it's a sign that he must get to Lyanna.

Now remember when I told you about the laws and Ellinor Aquitanie. That's what happen to remove a threat to his families legacy and to try and forfill the phopecy he takes Lyanna. So there you have it. That is what i think is behind the whole was about. The citadel was trying to play with the prophecy. Mawyn told sam that he knew about the prophecy. It's because of him and his meddling when he sent his son to Winterfell that the whole war happened. It's perfect.

Then look at this if you break down the Valyrians that's in jon's blood, then through the Martells there would be Nymeria's people who had kings blood. The Valyrians who ruled most of the east would have blood ties to other kings blood in the east. Like Volantis which wasn't always part of the free hold. Then there is the empire of Ghias. Then the Andals who migrated into Westeros. So through the Arryans he would be related to the past king line of the Andals. Oh my god. I did it. I did it. I only hope I'm right. All of the free cities have Valyrian blood even if they don't have the looks their blood is in the nobility by common ancestors. That would encampass all of westeros and Essos that jon would have a connection to through blood. Even if the tie is long lost it's still a part of his make up. The blood remembers and that's what the connections come in.

[Ser Tahu]

cut

Are you just copy-pasting this on every thread?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Okay hear me out before you judge me. So I was reading some of the past threads about Jon and him being L+R=J if that is what you are looking for that isn't what you will find here.

So it got me to thinking about the Political situation right before the Tourney at Harrenhal. Which got me to thinking about Lyanna and why Rheagar would take her. This entire series is about family and claims to the throne. Yet it's also about how well can you make people see one thing and something else is really going on. I don't think that Harrenhal was the first move in the war against the Targs

Lady Dustin tells Theon in ADWD that Lord Rickon had southern ambitions (through his maester who is a hightower by birth possible the son of Marwyn and the citadel was playing it's own game of thrones they wanted to control the prophecy. That's why there was a book in winterfell about dragons they thought that the starks were the key to the problem get back to that in a minute) and that marrying his heir to his own vassal would not do. Why? because those swords are already sworn to house Stark. I want you to think about what Rickon was trying to do with the marriages of Lyanna and Brandon.

Lyanna and Robert if they were to marry Robert's family is next in line for the throne by right of blood. Robert's grandmother was the niece of Aemon targ who was related to the King his brother. Plus through the male line they are Targs not Baratheons they are only Baratheons because Orys married the daughter of the last storm King. So it's through the female line of the house that they are Baratheon.

Orys was named Baratheon even before the Conquest. He took his wife's castle and words and sigil, but gave her his own last name.

Peep this. It's brillant and if I hadn't been a detective and did some research I would have totally missed this and it gives reason for the Tourney, why Rheagar choose Lyanna over Cersi and what not. It was about consolidation of the royal bloodlines.

Okay So Aegon the First marries both of his sisters, now Maegor(rhaenys son) had no issue. Yet viserya' son Aenys who like at as not married his sister through Rhaenys has Jaehaerys who marries Alyanne now that's not the cool part this is where is get's twisted and it starts to makes sense.

Aegon the Conqueror did indeed marry both his sisters, but it was Visenya who was the mother of Maegor. Maegor was her only child. With Rhaenys, Aegon had a son, Aenys, and two or three daughters. One of these daughters married Maegor, as apperenly did a daughter of Aenys,

Jaehaerys hands the throne over to Viserys I who marries first an Arryan and has Rhaenys who started the civil war a dance with dragon so she's half arryan. Then Viserys has a son by a hightower Aegon II this causes the war which neither survives. So the throne passes to Aegon III who is 1/3 arryan when he marries back into the Arryan family. He leaves the throne to his brother who is 1/3 arryan. Now before I continue I would like to point out that one of Aegon's daughter's Daena the mother of the BlackFyre pretenter is part arryan and that's how the arryans are related to the Blackfyre. Now Viserys II marries his sister to produce AegonIV. He produces 4 great bastards but the one's that matter would be the males who one is all targ but because of outside marriages is part arryan(Daemon) then the next is 1/2 targ and 1/2 bracken(Bittlesteel) the last the albino is 1/2 blackwood and 1/2targ(BloodRaven who happens to be north of the wall and he's waiting for the realms of men (Jon) but I will get back to that in a minute, that had dragon and warg dreams and was marked as a wizard). Now if the arryans had joined the fight with Robb in the war of the 5 kings it would have been all of the targ bastards families fighting under the same banner. I'll get back to that.

Now Aegon's son marries into Dorne making it a part of the seven kingdoms so now the Martells are apart of the Targ family bloodline. Now we don't know who but we know that after that alot of the Targ heirs and males marry outside of the family but as they don't inherit the throne they don't matter to this topic. So by the time that Aerys and his sister marry this would be the bloodlines of the Targs that we know of.

Viserys I had Rhaenyra with his Arryn wife. This Lady Arryn had a Targaryen ancestor. She wasn't simply picked as his bride because of the Vale, but because she already had Targaryen blood (through her mother or grandmother).

It is never stated anywhere that Viserys II married an Arryn as well.

Aegon IV had a son (Daeron II) who married a Martell, and a daughter (Daenerys) who married a Martell. This would make the union between Martell and Targaryen more recent than the union between Targaryen and Arryn. Above all, the Martells have actual Targaryen blood through Daenerys, whereas the Arryn's might not have (it is never stated the Arryn woman Viserys I marries has a brother who became lord of the Vale).

Anyway, the Martells' claim to the throne would be much stronger than the claim any Arryn could make.

Rheagar would have family ties to the Hightowers(who married into the Tyrell and Tarly family), Arryan and the BlackFyre's and have a common ancestor with the Brackens and the Blackwoods from the trident, then there is the Martells of course. Then we know from outside sources Robb when talking to his mother and his marriage to Westerling that they provided brides for house Targ on three separate times. We know that the first Jeyne Westerling that married Maegor had no children. So Grrm said that westerling would be important. If something where to happen to her brother she stands next in line to inherit the westerling lands. Keep that in mind for future reference.

How exactly would Rhaegar have family ties to the Hightowers? Alicent was the only Hightower to ever marry a Targaryen, and all her offspring died.

[lmgross25]

Even if she was chosen to marry in to to royal family she still had Arryn blood doesn't change my theory any. . So it's they share a common ancestor. Even if the blood is burned out of his veins they still share that ancestor.

Yes your right the martells are more recent than the Arryns but they still have ancestors in their family tree. That was my point. That it's the combination of the bloodlines that's all. I may have gotten some of the minor details wrong or twisted. Doesn't make it any less true. That we know of. Remember me saying that there were several heirs and males that married for love and seeing as we don't know who they are. Robert's grandmother who was targ(aerion's daughter i think) for all we know she could have been the daughter of a hightower. I was just saying about the bloodlines and ancestors. As the Hightowers don't have any royal blood that's even better for my case because I am theorizing that what makes Jon so much more special when it comes to ancestors and bloodlines is that he has more kings blood ties than Dany does. I know your going to say but their both Targs so how can he have more kings blood.

Because his family wasn't restricted like her's to only marry inside the family and only go outside when there wasn't a female around to help. Jon's family through the starks had more free range and they married into other familes that had been kings in westeros when the Valyrians were still fucking sheep, that's how the slave trader put it to dany no? That unlike Jon, dany's family comes from a republic like the greece and rome free states of the past were there wasn't a king. That's the impression that I was getting about the Free hold. Now Jon's family which is probably decentant from some of those Volantis free holds because that's where the first men are from right. So the first men would be descendants from the Volantis.

It's just a theory that I worked hard on. Really hard there may be some flaws or some things that I might have missed I've only been reading the books for a little over a year. Plus as this is a forum it's other people's jobs to point out things that I might have missed but the theory ties somethings together and fills some gaps in the story that a logical jumps of conjecture.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Even if she was chosen to marry in to to royal family she still had Arryn blood doesn't change my theory any. . So it's they share a common ancestor. Even if the blood is burned out of his veins they still share that ancestor.

Yes your right the martells are more recent than the Arryns but they still have ancestors in their family tree. That was my point. That it's the combination of the bloodlines that's all. I may have gotten some of the minor details wrong or twisted. Doesn't make it any less true. That we know of. Remember me saying that there were several heirs and males that married for love and seeing as we don't know who they are. Robert's grandmother who was targ(aerion's daughter i think) for all we know she could have been the daughter of a hightower. I was just saying about the bloodlines and ancestors. As the Hightowers don't have any royal blood that's even better for my case because I am theorizing that what makes Jon so much more special when it comes to ancestors and bloodlines is that he has more kings blood ties than Dany does. I know your going to say but their both Targs so how can he have more kings blood.

Because his family wasn't restricted like her's to only marry inside the family and only go outside when there wasn't a female around to help. Jon's family through the starks had more free range and they married into other familes that had been kings in westeros when the Valyrians were still fucking sheep, that's how the slave trader put it to dany no? That unlike Jon, dany's family comes from a republic like the greece and rome free states of the past were there wasn't a king. That's the impression that I was getting about the Free hold. Now Jon's family which is probably decentant from some of those Volantis free holds because that's where the first men are from right. So the first men would be descendants from the Volantis.

It's just a theory that I worked hard on. Really hard there may be some flaws or some things that I might have missed I've only been reading the books for a little over a year. Plus as this is a forum it's other people's jobs to point out things that I might have missed but the theory ties somethings together and fills some gaps in the story that a logical jumps of conjecture.

Exactly, you post a theory here and thus you should not feel offended when I correct some of your statements and ask questions about others. People tend to believe theories quicker when the facts are correct.

To continue this, it was a daughter of Aegon V who married a Baratheon Lord, not Aerions daughter.

Aegon V and his sons marries for love, and Barristan once comment that the realm paid the bride price in corpses. Aegon could have made fast friends, but he made enemies instead. This indicates that there we no marriages between Aegon and a great house, or Aegons sons and a great house. So a Hightower marrying either Argon or a son of his seems to be unlikely.

As for the Starks in their time as kings, they would have married a woman within their kingdom, since there was little friendship between the kingdoms. Especially since the north followed a different religion. So the only extra kings blood Jon would have, is solely from the Stark Kings, not from anyone these kings mitt have married, since these would have been the daughters of loyal bannermen.

Either Rhaenyra's mother or grandmother was a Targaryen. That only makes Rhaenyra more Targaryen than her half brothers and sisters, since they have no targ ancestor.

[jaimereborn]

Okay hear me out before you judge me. So I was reading some of the past threads about Jon and him being L+R=J if that is what you are looking for that isn't what you will find here.

So it got me to thinking about the Political situation right before the Tourney at Harrenhal. Which got me to thinking about Lyanna and why Rheagar would take her. This entire series is about family and claims to the throne. Yet it's also about how well can you make people see one thing and something else is really going on. I don't think that Harrenhal was the first move in the war against the Targs

Lady Dustin tells Theon in ADWD that Lord Rickon had southern ambitions (through his maester who is a hightower by birth possible the son of Marwyn and the citadel was playing it's own game of thrones they wanted to control the prophecy. That's why there was a book in winterfell about dragons they thought that the starks were the key to the problem get back to that in a minute) and that marrying his heir to his own vassal would not do. Why? because those swords are already sworn to house Stark. I want you to think about what Rickon was trying to do with the marriages of Lyanna and Brandon.

Lyanna and Robert if they were to marry Robert's family is next in line for the throne by right of blood. Robert's grandmother was the niece of Aemon targ who was related to the King his brother. Plus through the male line they are Targs not Baratheons they are only Baratheons because Orys married the daughter of the last storm King. So it's through the female line of the house that they are Baratheon.

Then he wanted to marry Cat Tully to his heir Brandon the Tully's having no royal blood what so ever but the castle on the trident and her father is the lord paramount of the riverlands. Riverrun would make a nice fall back castle. Plus they can call on all of the houses of the River. With the Frey's acting as a middle stopping post between the two kingdoms.

Then there is Ned being fostered in the Eyrie to a lord that doesn't have a direct heir. His sister is of no help because she's married and under the law(slavic by the way the book is set up) doesn't stop her from inheriting the throne of the Vale but it does stop her from ruling in her own right and who ever she marries they would be the lord of the Vale. Then her son but as by this time she hasn't had any male children so that's of no help because it places her daughters in the same position that Mary of England was in. Men wanting to marry her because they wanted her crown. Her husband Philippe of Spain left his wife after she refused to hand him the English treasury and the English fleet in the hands of Spain plus her parliment denied signing the documents that gave him the title of King not King consort which are too totally different things. Which is why King Henry went through some much trouble of tying to sire a male heir. That way the house of Tudor would continue through the Male line not the male branch and the female line.

It's the bloodlines.

Peep this. It's brillant and if I hadn't been a detective and did some research I would have totally missed this and it gives reason for the Tourney, why Rheagar choose Lyanna over Cersi and what not. It was about consolidation of the royal bloodlines.

Okay So Aegon the First marries both of his sisters, now Maegor(rhaenys son) had no issue. Yet viserya' son Aenys who like at as not married his sister through Rhaenys has Jaehaerys who marries Alyanne now that's not the cool part this is where is get's twisted and it starts to makes sense.

Jaehaerys hands the throne over to Viserys I who marries first an Arryan and has Rhaenys who started the civil war a dance with dragon so she's half arryan. Then Viserys has a son by a hightower Aegon II this causes the war which neither survives. So the throne passes to Aegon III who is 1/3 arryan when he marries back into the Arryan family. He leaves the throne to his brother who is 1/3 arryan. Now before I continue I would like to point out that one of Aegon's daughter's Daena the mother of the BlackFyre pretenter is part arryan and that's how the arryans are related to the Blackfyre. Now Viserys II marries his sister to produce AegonIV. He produces 4 great bastards but the one's that matter would be the males who one is all targ but because of outside marriages is part arryan(Daemon) then the next is 1/2 targ and 1/2 bracken(Bittlesteel) the last the albino is 1/2 blackwood and 1/2targ(BloodRaven who happens to be north of the wall and he's waiting for the realms of men (Jon) but I will get back to that in a minute, that had dragon and warg dreams and was marked as a wizard). Now if the arryans had joined the fight with Robb in the war of the 5 kings it would have been all of the targ bastards families fighting under the same banner. I'll get back to that.

Now Aegon's son marries into Dorne making it a part of the seven kingdoms so now the Martells are apart of the Targ family bloodline. Now we don't know who but we know that after that alot of the Targ heirs and males marry outside of the family but as they don't inherit the throne they don't matter to this topic. So by the time that Aerys and his sister marry this would be the bloodlines of the Targs that we know of.

Rheagar would have family ties to the Hightowers(who married into the Tyrell and Tarly family), Arryan and the BlackFyre's and have a common ancestor with the Brackens and the Blackwoods from the trident, then there is the Martells of course. Then we know from outside sources Robb when talking to his mother and his marriage to Westerling that they provided brides for house Targ on three separate times. We know that the first Jeyne Westerling that married Maegor had no children. So Grrm said that westerling would be important. If something where to happen to her brother she stands next in line to inherit the westerling lands. Keep that in mind for future reference.

Now let me get back to the House of Arryan, House GreyJoy and Lannister and other house of the Vale(now some of this is speculation but it fits so bare with me).

We know that Cat tells Robb that he needs to name an heir. Now my first thought is why not say Robin but as he's a child I think that's why Cat didn't even mention him as a possibility. Then she mention that his great grand aunt married in the the Junior house of Royce and from there her three daughters marries in to the Waywood, Belmore and she thinks the Templeton family. All of these houses have been in the Vale before the conquest of the Andals. Now she neglects to mention who the Lord of winterfell at this time decides to marry. Now the best way to consolidate power and claims is through marriage. So it stands to reason for Ned to have any claim to the IT then his great gran father is married to an arryan. Meaning that all of they have common ancestors and that gives the Starks a claim the IT because of their common ancestor to all three families.

So if you are trying to make a break from the throne. Which is what I am suggesting Rickon was trying to do. By marrying Lyanna to the heir to the throne of the Seven Kingdoms if something where to happen to the main branch of Targs. The Baratheon's would be the junior cache of house Targ. Unlike the BlackFyre's they actually have legally binding marriages and children from these unions which is different from Daemon and him raising against the realm because he wasn't born in wed lock. Moving forward.

Ned as a son of both house Stark and Arryan from the major cache through the female line would stand as Jon Arryan's as jon's closet male relative from the same line he's from. Note that the uncouth Arryan's stayed true to the crown because they were trying prove that unlike their lord they were loyal. Yet if Jon and co. lose the war with jon and ned dead then the Vale would fall to them to rule. IT had nothing to do with aerys was open handed when pleased. They didn't want a northerner to rule the Vale. So this was the simplest way to accomplish that without the blood being on their hands. The blood would be on Jon. I always found if strange that Aerys would over react like that and demand their heads. To wear a crown is to always be looking at your family and anticipating betrayal. So it stands to reason that he was demanding that he send their heads because they have serious claims to the throne if they should win a rebellion. By removing anyone with royal blood outside of the major cache of the house he's safe guarding his family. Only it appeared to the realm that Aerys was being cruel and that it was the madness that made him demand their heads and killing Brandon and Rickon. The realm doesn't know that Rickon was plotting to rebel and leave the realm of the iron throne and go back to the north being an independant nation, I'll get back to that.

Little know fact about mediveal law. IF a woman is heir to property if she is unwed and kidnapped the kidnapper can force her to marry him and then her lands and incomes become his own because he's a male and her husband. That's food for thought later will I get into that . Just know that Ellinor of Aquitaine was in such a position which is why she married her cousin the french king and has they had 2 daughters after years of marriage they got annulment on the ground that they were first cousins before they wed. Which brings me to my point when she married the king her land got swallowed up by the french and became french territories until she married in to the English family and her lands passed to her son. Making his a very wealth king and ruler of broad lands in continental Europe and England Just a side note on history and how it ties into my theory. Back to that in a minute.

Now the Maester Wylis is a hightower by birth with an anchmaester as a father. After he heads north he starts whispering into the lord of winterfell's ear. Telling him that out of all the kingdoms his is the one that is least governed by the IT. The last time someone of royal birth came to the North was when the dragonknight came north and fought one of your ancestors. Now the Starks are a line of kings unbroken for 8,000 years it was the dragons that Torrenhen bent the knee to and the dragons are all dead. Then there's this prophecy that there will be a PTWP and he will bring back the dragons but what if you could control that prophecy. Marry your daughter to the lord of stormsend. Through their children the lines of house Arryan, Targ, Baratheon and Stark will come together all under one child. Not to mention that this child will as so share ancestors to the Hightowers,Martells,and the Lannisters through the marriage when Castely Rock and the Starks went to war against the Ironborn who also have ties to house Stark through the GreyStarks. When King Jon Stark finished his war with the Iron born to get them out of White Harbor gave the wolf's den to his son and to join the peace with marriage to his daughter(this is speculation but it makes sense right everything after my Gullstown theory so pick it apart if you want but it makes too much sense in my mind not to be true. We have seen time and time again that the way to seal a pact is through the marriage of the two houses. So even though this is theoretical it fits ).

So let me draw the lines of who the Royal families that the Starks are related to even remotely with a common ancestors. The lannisters, GreyJoys, Arryan, Martell, Baratheon, Bracken(kings at one time), Blackwood (which is why they are fighting to this day over a crown that hasn't exsisted for thousands of years but they are still a line of kings) Not to mention that the Lannisters are related to the First Men because Lann the Clever was rumored to be decantent from a line of the first men. His daughter married into an andalos family. The only house that they don't have ties to is house Tyrell and that's because they were stewards that were given Highgarden after their lord died. Yet Robert's mother was a florent and they have ties to the Garden Kings. So there you have it. By Lyanna and Rheagar would to have any children their child would be a child of the realm. Every major kingblood line would be combined into their child. That's what Jon is. The only vow that Jon has ever pledged would be to the realm. He's saying kings words when he's saying his Night's watch vows. Not to mention that the Starks have a decent that was King beyond the wall, who stole Brandon the daughterless who leaves a half stark king and half wildling king behind. There is power in kings blood and Jon has it coming out of his veins from every kingdom of the realm.

"Now my watch begins,It shall not end until my death. I am the sword in the darkness, The watcher on the wall, I am the fire that burn against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleeper, the shield that guards the realms of men"

Now I'm going to break those down and turn them to an oath that of a king swearing fealty to the realm. Now my reign begins, it shall not end until my death (that's self explanitor), I am the defender against injustice, the watcher to keep the realm safe, the life that burns against death, the life that brings hope, the horn that sounds the call, and the protector of the realms of men" He makes this pledge in front of the God's and soon after while he is praying to those same gods he burns the wright. He is burning his vows into his flesh. Blood magic the prayer, the vows and then the fire that spills his blood of the realms of men.

Now we are lead to believe that the Tourney from Harrenhal was a ploy set up by Rheagar to meet as many lords as possible to call a grand council to remove his father from power. Now we know that Rickon's maester is a hightower. A member of the Kingsguard is a hightower and the citadel is no longer serving the realm but its serving itself. So let's say that this maester let's it slip and word gets back to Gerold Hightower. He knows how Aerys would deal with Ned, Robert, Lyanna, Rickon, Jon and Benjen expecitally with at this point Tywin is still hand. Total annihaliation of all of their houses. Dead fathers and sons lead no future rebellions. So he goes to the Prince and he calls the Tourney. He wants to take measure of Ned, Brandon and Lyanna. Notice the Tully's don't seem to be at the Tourney. I do believe that Rheagar found Lyanna attractive and he's been studing this problem about the PTWP. At the time of the Tourney he has no heirs and his wife is fraile. Plus she doesn't have all of the blood connections that Lyanna could bring to their child(probably not thinking all of that but at least some of it.)Yet him laying the crown of love and beauty was two parts. The first part was to show that he fancied her. The next part was to let Robert and company that he knows about the plot that they are cooking up. Which after he learns that his wife can't have anymore children. This only prompts him to look at the northern girl again. He's probably been thinking about the problem the entire time that he's back at the red keep waiting for Aegon to be born. So anyways he finds out that his wife can't have anymore children and that Aegon isn't even his. He takes the sign that the coment brought as it's a sign that he must get to Lyanna.

Now remember when I told you about the laws and Ellinor Aquitanie. That's what happen to remove a threat to his families legacy and to try and forfill the phopecy he takes Lyanna. So there you have it. That is what i think is behind the whole was about. The citadel was trying to play with the prophecy. Mawyn told sam that he knew about the prophecy. It's because of him and his meddling when he sent his son to Winterfell that the whole war happened. It's perfect.

Then look at this if you break down the Valyrians that's in jon's blood, then through the Martells there would be Nymeria's people who had kings blood. The Valyrians who ruled most of the east would have blood ties to other kings blood in the east. Like Volantis which wasn't always part of the free hold. Then there is the empire of Ghias. Then the Andals who migrated into Westeros. So through the Arryans he would be related to the past king line of the Andals. Oh my god. I did it. I did it. I only hope I'm right. All of the free cities have Valyrian blood even if they don't have the looks their blood is in the nobility by common ancestors. That would encampass all of westeros and Essos that jon would have a connection to through blood. Even if the tie is long lost it's still a part of his make up. The blood remembers and that's what the connections come in.

was it really necessary to copy and paste this on multiple threads?

[Maestor Tarly]

Okay hear me out before you judge me. So I was reading some of the past threads about Jon and him being L+R=J if that is what you are looking for that isn't what you will find here.

So there you have it. By Lyanna and Rheagar would to have any children their child would be a child of the realm. Every major kingblood line would be combined into their child. That's what Jon is.

That's what happen to remove a threat to his families legacy and to try and forfill the phopecy he takes Lyanna. So there you have it. That is what i think is behind the whole was about.

So let me get this right... on the Winds of Winter Theory thread, you start by saying that your post will not be about L+R=J... then you go on and on about bloodlines and then your conclusion is that L+R=J?!?!?

What part of this pertains to Winds of Winter?

[BaseBornBastard]

For some characters, I couldn't even hazard a guess. So I'll only do a select few. Here goes:

Sansa - She will be married off to Harry the Heir. He will impregnate her and eventually die. Whether Littlefinger is behind his death or not, who is to say? Sansa turns on LF and has him killed. Sansa, the Lady of the Vale, a widow now pregnant with the heir of the Vale, begins to mobilize her forces. Perhaps she declares for Aegon, perhaps for Stannis. Although if Rickon is crowned then she'll definitely declare for him.

Arya - Arrives at the Wall with Needle. Whether she is there on a mission or has gone rogue, I'm not sure. If she is on a mission her target will either be Dany or Mel.

Dany - Arrives in Westeros towards the end of the book. But isn't involved in any major conflicts until ADOS.

Tyrion - Arrives alongside Dany, as the Hand of the Queen.

Aegon - Is sitting on the Iron Throne by the end of the book, having won the throne with the help of the GC, Dorne, the Faith and several random Noble Houses that declared for him.

JonCon - Is Hand of the King.

Arianne - Is the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms.

Jon - Spends a portion of the book inside Ghost, while his body sits in an ice cell. Eventually Mel resurrects him and AA is reborn. Not sure whether or not it will require a sacrifice....probably will.

Cersai - She will survive her trial by battle, but will still end up dead by the end of the book, along with her remaining children. Hopefully at Jaime's hands.

Barristan - Will die in Meereen.

Bran - Remains in the cave and continues to explore the Lands of Always Winter.

Stannis - Wins Winterfell. Probably unifies the North with Rickon as Lord Paramount (assuming the Northerners don't crown him). Beyond that I don't know. I think he will also sit on the IT by the end of the series, but perhaps not until ADOS. He'll still die eventually though.

[United Essos]

After reading all posts here I can't help but ask you, do you really think George will be able to finish all of this in just two books? Hardly, can't believe in that.

[Ser Tahu]

After reading all posts here I can't help but ask you, do you really think George will be able to finish all of this in just two books? Hardly, can't believe in that.

I think he can if:

1) They are as long as ASoS/ADwD

2) The chapters are shorter (the average chapter length has almost doubled since the series began). Based on the sample/read TWoW chapter, it looks like this is actually the case :D

3) less travelogues.

Assuming me theories are roughly correct, half a book (the first half of ADoS) for the Dance of the Dragons, with the vast majority of the surviving PoV's caught up in it, should be enough. As for the final war against the Others, if that took up any more than half a book I could see it getting very, very repetitive.

So yeah, I think he will finish if it is like this:

TWoW - 1500 manuscript pages

ADoS -1500 manuscript pages

total: 3000 manuscript pages

And if he does need 8 books, I don't think he would need another 1500 page book, I think ADoS would be split into two 1000 manuscript page books, so:

TWoW - 1500 manuscript pages

ADoS - 1000 manuscript pages

book 8 - 1000 manuscript pages

total: 3500 manuscript pages

So I don't think it would be the difference between whether he stays ahead of the tv series or not.