Did the Starks of old have direwolves?

[complexphoenix]

IIRC, the Baratheons picked the stag because it was the symbol of the Stormlands royalty which they replaced

When Orys Baratheon married Argella Durrendon and supposedly founded House Baratheon... all he really did was give House Durrendon a new name. Everything I've read indicates that nothing else about the family changed at all.

[Stark Revenge]

That would be a most dramatic skinchanging - skin to no-skin. Maybe the term should be "skindropping".

Hahaha nice.

[Musashisamurai]

I agree that some Starks historically were probably wargs, or at least they had strong bonds with domesticated direwolf pets; however, just because they chose the direwolf as their sigil it doesn't necessitate that they were definitely wargs. All houses have sigils, and they have to choose something, but that doesn't mean that the families can all skinchange their sigils. For example, Baratheons aren't known to skinchange stags, Lannisters lions, etc.

None of hom have the blood of the first men. But what others Northern houses with animals do we know? Mormonts-who claim to skinchange bears.

Anyways, what I meant was if the orignal Starks warged direwolves, and thus the direwolf/Stark connection came from that hence choosing their herald.

Also what other houses do we kmow that had skinchangers, confirmed or unconfimed? Mormonts (Bears), Bloodraven (whose house, Blackwood had ravens in their banners).

[Aeternum]

When Orys Baratheon married Argella Durrendon and supposedly founded House Baratheon... all he really did was give House Durrendon a new name. Everything I've read indicates that nothing else about the family changed at all.

The original Baratheons were relatives of the Targaryens, IIRC. I imagine their silver-blonde Valyrian genes were totally dominated by the black-haired Stormlands genotype after just one generation, so the "Baratheon look" which clued in Ned about the twincest is really the "Durrendon look".

Also what other houses do we kmow that had skinchangers, confirmed or unconfimed?

Apart from the Starks? There's the Blackwoods, the Mormonts (possibly), the Reeds, and the Greyjoys.

(All of the above families are First Men. I dunno if the Targaryens ever had skinchanging abilities, or if that was a result of Bloodraven's mother's family.)

[Ludd]

I suspect that one of the gifts given to the first men in their pact with CoF was the gift of skin changing. I rather suspect that each of the hunded kingdoms had their own animals and/or animals.

I rather think that the physical body type of each house reflects this:

Here is my list , where I think there is good evidence and a strong house association

Dire wolves - Starks - Long, thin and grey eyes

Bears - Mormants (or perhaps the original Woodfoots)

Manderley - Whales - Large and fat but still strong

Ryswell - horses

Bracken - also horses

Blackwood - Ravens

Bats - Whent/Lothstone

Here is a list where is is quite possible

Mammoth - a wilding family

Giants (assuming they are not human) - Umbers

Pigs- a wilding family

Snow cats- a wilding family

Giant octopus - Greyjoy

Unicorns - Somewhere on Skagos

trout or fish - Tully

Stags and or bulls - the original first men of the Baratheons (storm gods)

Elks - Probably an important wilding family

Lizard Lions - Reed

Eagle - A wilding family

Falcon - someone in the vale connected with the Eyrie (probably NOT Arryn)

Squirrel- somewhere in the Stark kids ancestors - both Bran and Arya are connected to squirrels - perhaps a Flint

[thewingedwolf]

In Bran's first chapter, Theon states no one has seen a direwolf south of The Wall in 200 years. So, that got me thinking. Did the Starks of old have direwolves? What do you guys think?

Yes the Kings in the North had direwolves, proof is in the crypts of Winterfell where the Kings of the North are buried. The sculputures of the old KitN feature them and their direwolves:

Reference: The Crypts are where the bones of all of the Kings in the North and ruling lords of Winterfell are buried. The underground crypts are long and narrow, with pillars moving two by two along its length. Between pillars stand the sepulchers of the Starks of Winterfell, the likenesses of the dead seated on thrones, with iron swords set before them to keep the restless spirits from wandering, and snarling direwolves at their feet.

As the legendary Dr Pepper said, search is your friend and Google is too . . .

[Ludd]

It would be interesting to know if Rickard and Edwyle have direwolves at their feet.

I think that as the Starks integrated with th south, the no of direwoves fell

[Blueberry Stark]

While I agree with popular consenus that the Starks ​​​​​of old probably bonded with direwolves and warged them, I don't see how the sigil and the crypt sculptures ​prove it. Perhaps the direwolves are simply the symbol for House Stark.

Yes the Kings in the North had direwolves, proof is in the crypts of Winterfell where the Kings of the North are buried. The sculputures of the old KitN feature them and their direwolves:

Reference: The Crypts are where the bones of all of the Kings in the North and ruling lords of Winterfell are buried. The underground crypts are long and narrow, with pillars moving two by two along its length. Between pillars stand the sepulchers of the Starks of Winterfell, the likenesses of the dead seated on thrones, with iron swords set before them to keep the restless spirits from wandering, and snarling direwolves at their feet.

As the legendary Dr Pepper said, search is your friend and Google is too . . .

Perhaps the direwolf sculptures are only depicted because they are symbolic of House Stark, so I don't see this as "proof." It is compelling evidence, as previosly mentioned on the thread.

[Aeternum]

Manderley - Whales - Large and fat but still strong

:laugh:

[Illusion]

They were definitely wargs. After all, why choose tge wolf as their symbol? And varamyr sas ghost was "a second life fit for a king"

Your post just made me think of something...unless I can't read properly (likely) no other warg/skinchanger we've come across anywhere North or South of the Wall 'owns' a Direwolf. Seems to me they are very much a Stark creature too.

[thewingedwolf]

While I agree with popular consenus that the Starks ​​​​​of old probably bonded with direwolves and warged them, I don't see how the sigil and the crypt sculptures ​prove it. Perhaps the direwolves are simply the symbol for House Stark.

Perhaps the direwolf sculptures are only depicted because they are symbolic of House Stark, so I don't see this as "proof." It is compelling evidence, as previosly mentioned on the thread.

Remember that the Starks have been around for roughly 8,000 years (if we assume the first King in the North was Bran the Builder). Therefore that there have not been a direwolf south of the Wall in 200 years is a pretty small time period when compared to the whole time the Starks have been in Winterfell.

As far as your second point about direwolves being only a depiction, I would respectfully argue to the contrary based on a few points:

1. If this was a depcition, then the more recent Starks to be buried in the crypts would have direwolves as well, which they dont.

2. The KitN were buried with actual sword on their lap, if the momuments were meant to be a depiction, why let the swords rust away when they could sculpt one (it was common in ancient societies such as the Egyptians and the Vikings to bury noblemen and warriors with their prized possessions, and even sometimes their servants so they would take them along in the afterrlife). Therefore, I would argue that it is likelier that they were buried with their direwolves rather than the sculptures being mere depictions.

[tf13]

My initial thoughts were, if the Stark KitNs had direwolves, why was Ned so apprehensive about allowing the kids to have them?

[Blueberry Stark]

The Starks of yore probably domesticated, bonded with, and warged direwolves. I just don't see it as absolutely proven textually, and that's what I've been reiterating throughout the thread. The direwolves were probably depicted on the crypts for a couple of reasons: they are the house sigil thus a symbol of the Starks, and because they were probably bonded/warged by some Starks somewhere along the lines. I think that the Starks had more recently lost knowledge of their warging abilities because of the cessation or lapse in magic in the world. With magic burgeoning again, it seems that the Starks warging ability has been reawakened.

[thewingedwolf]

My initial thoughts were, if the Stark KitNs had direwolves, why was Ned so apprehensive about allowing the kids to have them?

There has not been a direwolf south of the Wall in 200 years, Ned perhaps saw it as an omen of bad things coming north of the Wall (as confirmed by his conversation with Benjen at the banquet for King Robert's visit to Winterfell)

[DavosSeaworthy]

I've always believed that the Starks were always regular Wargs and their natural bonding animal was the Direwolf, hence why they chose it as their sigil.

[The Wolves]

and the Greyjoys.

The Greyjoys are not skinchangers

[blood of the dragoon]

My initial thoughts were, if the Stark KitNs had direwolves, why was Ned so apprehensive about allowing the kids to have them?

Because Ned puts no faith in signs. He was being a responsible adult, except this time he was wrong and was big enough to admit it.

[thewingedwolf]

The Greyjoys are not skinchangers

The only House from the Iron Islands who are skinchangers are the Farwynds who are believed to warg into Walruses

[im317]

Bran the Builder high possibility, since he can control Giants.

given that some of the wildlings can speak the giants tong (and Jon is/was learning it) hindsight makes me think the giants either chose to help or were forced to as some pact but not controlled as in warging.

[Aeternum]

The Greyjoys are not skinchangers

Euron is one.

The Starks of yore probably domesticated, bonded with, and warged direwolves.

Bonded and warged, definitely. Domesticated like house pets, probably not.