Can the Wight Walkers really climb the wall to enter the 7 Kingdoms?

[Borsabil]

you do realize that the Weights and the White Walkers are two different things right the Weights are the dead ones that are slow and clumsy the white walkers seem to control the weights or at least reanimate them and they are far from slow and clumsy read the beginning of agot again those are the true threat

I'm of the opinion that the raising of the dead is a side effect of the presence of the Others. I'm not even sure if it's being done deliberately. The Others are desperate to get south, maybe due to some lack of resource in the LoAW? Or for some magical reason that we don't know about? Or perhaps seeking vengeance against the human and CoF races who exiled them in the first place? Or maybe they're running away from some horror themselves? We can only guess, but from the total lack of anything resembling tactical maneuvering on their part I'm thinking it's more a migration than an invasion. The problem is that the presence of the Others appears to be completely inimitable to human life, so for the Westerosi it will make no difference if it's a malicious invasion or the unintended byproduct of migration, the results are the same, zombie apocalypse and the end of everything.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I'm remembering that the Others are supposed to ride giant ice spiders that can climb anything...those spiders haven't shown up yet but I would bet they exist...

[yahya stark]

I dont know if reanimation is just a side affect when. With the weight that tried to LC Mormont it clearly knew who Mormont was and going after him was his mission. Also we dont know if the Others are Zombies they are using the dead for their work but i think that they are something else than Zombies they seem to be intelligent and precise so far

[The Fourth Head]

World War Z style!

so they climb over each-other to form a massive human ramp? brilliant! though I wonder how long it would take to form up, and how many wights it would use up to form 1 ramp, and how easy dropping a few flaming torches would burn the whole lot in one highly flammable conveniently enormous funeral pyre???

still- "how would the wights climb the wall"...I think you've nailed it!

yahya stark- a lot of confused terminology going on, true. My apologies- I was referring exclusively to the dead reanimated corpses- the wights. How can the wights climb the wall??? As for ice-faire like "Others"- ie, man made of ice, sure, they could scamper up the wall if it wasn't magically protected. Same applies to the wights- magical protection being a problem currently.

Confusingly, "wights" are white, deathly, and walk about when they should stay down. I guess that is where my "wight walkers" term slipped in. My mistake.

lord too-fat-to-sit-a-horse, there are a few assumptions you/we are all making here with zero evidence to back it up

1) that the Others even intend to attack the wall. There is no evidence that is their intent, or that it is possible. Threatening trespassers in their woods is one thing- assaulting a magical wall and invading another realm is something else entirely.

2) that their years of alleged planning has provided them with a solution. it's taken them 8K years to come up with an effective plan, what epiphany has suddenly occurred to them that wasn't obvious/possible before?

My guess is, it's the watch's decline, and imminent destruction that will break the seal.

As for "eyes" North of the wall, I have always found that answer a really bad one. What intelligence does Jon need to gather other than knowing what he knows already - ie that there are Others and wights in the woods mustering? Doesn't he know that already? Is it even possible to launch a strike attack on a wall that takes a day to climb? No it isn't, and again, if the wall is protected magically, what need is there to send men out there if the wall in impregnable?

It also assumes that rangers will catch the Others out, see them, then return safely without being killed to give Jon forewarning on their wherabouts, and that the extra time that will buy Jon is worth more than the protection offered by SEALING THE GATES.

It's hard not to feel scornful here. I think it;s possible that with a little magical intervention, and with the wildlings/NWmen killing eachother, the wights will walk right through the unsealed gates unmolested.

[Borsabil]

I dont know if reanimation is just a side affect when. With the weight that tried to LC Mormont it clearly knew who Mormont was and going after him was his mission. Also we dont know if the Others are Zombies they are using the dead for their work but i think that they are something else than Zombies they seem to be intelligent and precise so far

I'm really of two minds. What you say makes lots of sense, but there really hasn't been any concerted effort to breach the wall or even to do much of anything. The wights don't seem to be acting like an army for the Others. And I'm not really sure if we can read the wight attacking Mormont demonstrates an agenda, maybe, or it could be a remnant memory expressing itself in the zombie.

Anyway perhaps we're both right. Maybe the Others do want to invade, but the only way to get past the wall is by breaking it's magic. Once they get south they can create as many zombies as they want.

[yahya stark]

@ the 4th Head the wights are slow and clumsy dont really see them doing much to get over the wall the WW cant pass the wall as long as it stands because of the magic in the wall so unless they get the H O J (which i think is the Horn that they found on the Fist of the First Men) they cant bring the wall down they cant pass. or unless they get the magic taking out of the wall with some kind of counter spell which we dont know exist. All in all i think we will have to just wait and see

[yahya stark]

@ Borsabil I can agree with you on that

[yahya stark]

Sorry Wights not weights but dont feel scorned just a healthy debate

[yahya stark]

And i think it is kinda evident that they will attack they havent raised any wights in 8k years but now they have they havent left the LOAW in 8k years now they have and they started attaking wildlings their lands then they attacked the NW at the fist of the fist men these were not their lands they are moving for a purpose dont think we can assume that they will reach the wall than declare victory

[The Fourth Head]

I'm of the opinion that the raising of the dead is a side effect of the presence of the Others. I'm not even sure if it's being done deliberately. The Others are desperate to get south, maybe due to some lack of resource in the LoAW? Or for some magical reason that we don't know about? Or perhaps seeking vengeance against the human and CoF races who exiled them in the first place? Or maybe they're running away from some horror themselves? We can only guess, but from the total lack of anything resembling tactical maneuvering on their part I'm thinking it's more a migration than an invasion. The problem is that the presence of the Others appears to be completely inimitable to human life, so for the Westerosi it will make no difference if it's a malicious invasion or the unintended byproduct of migration, the results are the same, zombie apocalypse and the end of everything.

unless they are simply a product of a living person's dalliance in ice-magic? Someone (Val perhaps? or her, amongst a number of wilding priests/priestesses) whos' powers have improved as magic returns to the world, but who don't have the ability to feed their people? Consequently, they use their powers as a phantom menace- it is used to galvanise a Mance Raider type hero into uniting the wildlings as one people, it is used to wipe out/kill off/weaken the NW north of the wall, and it is used to pressurise the LC into letting the wildlings through the wall to more bountiful lands as winter arrives. With Val now protected by a force of wildlings, she could now use her powers south of the wall to protect her people and if that means animating dead men to protect those loyal to her ultimately humanitarian cause, then so be it- in effect, Jon/Stannis may have just invited the creator of Others/WW's over to the other side of the wall.

[yahya stark]

Dont see Val as an Ice Priestess though i could be wrong if anybody or thing are controlling the Others i think it would be the COTF though we still dont have enough evidence to support that

[The Fourth Head]

Getting kind of "heretical" now.

I think the magic used by the COTF and "the Others" are clearly very similar- ie, animating dead corpses with black hands. But that is where it ends, IMO.

The COTF use their magic in a way that produces a coherent talking walking dead person, with benevolent intentions towards the likes of Bran, whereas so far the wights we have seen cannot talk, are clumsy and have a different agenda in that they have shown malevolence towards Bran and his group. I cannot understand why Coldhands would fight those wights if they were working for Bloodraven.

Furthermore, those wights, together with reanimated polar bears etc have attacked in unison alongside the "Others" at TFOTFM, leading me to believe that the Others are either affiliated with, or more likely, controlling, the wights.

It does seem to me as if the wights are a case of someone less skilled than the COTF trying to wield the same powers for a different agenda.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Haha. Funny how people think White Walkers = Wights = Zombies because The Walking Dead (and probably other movies etc.) call zombies 'walkers'.

I know it's been addressed, but to make it clear:

White Walkers = Others = Creepy, skilled and probably intelligent necromancers vulnerable to dragonglass

Great Other = An evil deity from R'Hllorism. Mel associates WWs to him, but there's no proof of a connection or even that the Great Other exists.

Wights = the zombie-like creatures the White Walkers reanimate

[naik2902]

noone wants the wall to destroy. May be by badluck the horn will come in some drunker's hand and the same fool who doesnt have any idea its actually the horn of winter will blow it by mistake and the wall will go down. :ack:

[The Fourth Head]

@ Dany the Mad Queen, there is really no need to make it clear.

As a book reader, I have always known that;

1) the White Walkers = The Others (intelligent ice faerie type creatures who talk in an icy tongue)

2) the Wights = the zombies- reanimated corpses.

There really is no need for every man and his dog to call me out on my typo!

That said, the fact that a dedicated book reader can still make the error of typing "wight walker" says to me that subconsicusly, I think it would have been more rational for GRRM to call the zombies the "white walkers" given that they are made of deathly white flesh, that "wight" and "white" are virtually the same word, and that one of the main features about them that is worthy of note is the fact that they are dead and can..walk.

The Others are not "white" as far as I could gather- they are made of ice which is transparent, and the fact that they can walk is really not that remarkable when you consider that they are a piece of intelligent ice-form that can talk, ride spiders, and fight too. I thought, but enough of my griping. I personally think the confusion of terminology rose from Old Nan's stories where it's not explicitly clear which group she is referring to . In future, I think "wights" and "Others" is the simplest way to refer to them.

[RedFishBlackFish]

I've been wondering if those that die on the south side of the wall can be reanimated as wights? I remember a story that Old Nan tells about the Long Night. People south of the wall die of starvation or exposure and come back as wights, but she never made it clear if the White Walkers actually breeched the wall. Maybe the White Walkers don't even need to breach the wall if this is the case?

I read somewhere that the White Walkers might use Gorm's way to move south of the wall. I don't remember who posted this but they suggested that BloodRaven's cave is the entrance to Gorm's way. If the White Walkers broke through the warding on the cave's entrance (Or if it was let down by someone) they could enter that way. I think this would be an interesting option, at least from the perspective of a plot that includes Bran and BloodRaven.

[The Fourth Head]

RedFishBlackFish, I dont think the wall had been built during the previous Long Night. I thought it had been built retrospectively. Unhelpful, I know.

I agree that it could be the cold, and not just the Others, which can make wights, and could lead to wights being created south of the wall.

the counter argument is, what the hell is the point of the wall then, if no wall can prevent winter's inexorable march south?

Well firstly, I think stopping Others/wights passing south is pretty useful, but it doesn't, IMO, stop living humans choosing to use Ice magic south of the wall, or reanimating those who have died of cold south of the wall too.

I think the wall is symbolic. It provides humans with hope- the monsters are on one side with the worst of the winter, the humans are on the other side where the weather is fairer. If a human tries to use wights for his own ends south of the wall, he will be outnumbered and defeated by the living, as the living know that the worst of winter (Others/wights) are trapped north of the wall, providing the realm with a degree of security.

However, if there are not enough true people living south of the wall to resist a large number of people suddenly killed by cold and becoming an army of wights, then someone south of the wall could use wights with impunity, I think. Which is why I think Roose Bolton has been keeping such a low profile until now, and why the battle of the frozen lake was postponed until TWOW. I've aid it before and Ill say it again- whatever army falls into that lake isn't staying down.

[Borsabil]

@ Dany the Mad Queen, there is really no need to make it clear.

As a book reader, I have always known that;

1) the White Walkers = The Others (intelligent ice faerie type creatures who talk in an icy tongue)

2) the Wights = the zombies- reanimated corpses.

There really is no need for every man and his dog to call me out on my typo!

That said, the fact that a dedicated book reader can still make the error of typing "wight walker" says to me that subconsicusly, I think it would have been more rational for GRRM to call the zombies the "white walkers" given that they are made of deathly white flesh, that "wight" and "white" are virtually the same word, and that one of the main features about them that is worthy of note is the fact that they are dead and can..walk.

The Others are not "white" as far as I could gather- they are made of ice which is transparent, and the fact that they can walk is really not that remarkable when you consider that they are a piece of intelligent ice-form that can talk, ride spiders, and fight too. I thought, but enough of my griping. I personally think the confusion of terminology rose from Old Nan's stories where it's not explicitly clear which group she is referring to . In future, I think "wights" and "Others" is the simplest way to refer to them.

In the books they're referred to as the Others, the TV series calls them the White Walkers as the Others trademark had already been used by Lost.

Anyhoo I can't remember GRRM saying they were made of ice, they appear to be human like beings, quite beautiful gifted with unnatural strength and wielders of ice magic. Again it's the TV show that depicts them as white zombie type creatures.

[Borsabil]

unless they are simply a product of a living person's dalliance in ice-magic? Someone (Val perhaps? or her, amongst a number of wilding priests/priestesses) whos' powers have improved as magic returns to the world, but who don't have the ability to feed their people? Consequently, they use their powers as a phantom menace- it is used to galvanise a Mance Raider type hero into uniting the wildlings as one people, it is used to wipe out/kill off/weaken the NW north of the wall, and it is used to pressurise the LC into letting the wildlings through the wall to more bountiful lands as winter arrives. With Val now protected by a force of wildlings, she could now use her powers south of the wall to protect her people and if that means animating dead men to protect those loyal to her ultimately humanitarian cause, then so be it- in effect, Jon/Stannis may have just invited the creator of Others/WW's over to the other side of the wall.

I think that's a fascinating post. What are the Others? We don't know, the consensus seems to be they're an elf like creature, perhaps related to the CotF, but as we don't know the origin of the CotF that's really not helpful. Where does their magic come from? We don't know, but we know it's effects, reanimating dead flesh and bringing cold wherever they go. Are the long winters in Westeros a byproduct of their magic? It seems likely but again we don't know. Why are they moving south now, after 8000 years? Again no idea, some suggest the re-appearance of the dragons, but dragons have been around for millennia, so some other reason? What is their agenda? Are they truly malevolent or is it simply a different species changing their environment to suit their needs?

Anyway your post got me to thinking, it definitely answers one conundrum, why have the Others remained dormant for thousands of years. If the Others are the result of humans messing with ice magic it puts a whole new slant on the books.

[Ser Greg of House House]

In the books they're referred to as the Others, the TV series calls them the White Walkers as the Others trademark had already been used by Lost.

Anyhoo I can't remember GRRM saying they were made of ice, they appear to be human like beings, quite beautiful gifted with unnatural strength and wielders of ice magic. Again it's the TV show that depicts them as white zombie type creatures.

Wrong.

First, it wasn't a 'trademark'. They were only worried that people would find it confusing and/or relate it to another popular show.

And in the books they're called Others and White Walkers.