Knockout Game : WTF is wrong with kids today?

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I believe it's real but I don't believe for one second that anything is new about it, or something that just the kids today are doing.

Nothing that's sweeping the nation or on the rise.

Most of us probably have done a less violent version of this game.

How many of us rang a doorbell and ran away as kids? Or threw eggs at passing cars.

[awesome possum]

Two deaths in four years eh? Good job America doesn't have any kind of gun-violence epidemic to contend with at the same time, otherwise this really WOULD sound like fanning flames of hysteria over something incredibly fucking minor.

Yeah, you're right, dead people are minor if there's single-digits. After all, the Boston bombing only killed 3 people. We shouldn't get upset about terrorism just because only three people were killed.

I'm not sure what gun-violence has to do with this issue. That's like saying, "oh, you watch baseball so you can never watch any other sport since you love baseball so much."

Most of us probably have done a less violent version of this game.

How many of us rang a doorbell and ran away as kids? Or threw eggs at passing cars.

What the fuck? How in any way is punching people with the goal of knocking them out anywhere equal to ding-dong-ditch?

[Merentha]

You could read the rest of the thread where I talk about some of those very same links and possibly note that in almost all of the examples you provide, the claim that it was " a game for fun" comes from the people investigating (and usually not even that: its the mayor who often makes the connection to the "game" and they're just as susceptible to fwd:fwd:fwd:fwd: messages as anyone else), not from any of the people involved, and that reports often leave out some pretty important information in ways that make me think they're deliberately trying to mislead people into thinking there's an "epidemic."

Or you know, the fact that its been reported since 1992 automatically makes me think claims of "sweeping the nation" are kind of ridiculously bullshit. Do I think that very, very isolated groups of people may go around trying to knock someone out for fun? Sure. There's probably someone out there who shoves baby crocodile shit into their eyeballs for fun too. Do I think that "sweeping the nation" and "terrifying new game that's claimed lives already!" is absolutely fearmongering media dipshits trying to make a story on a slow day. You bet your ass, since for four deaths in two years in a country of 300+ million I could probably make a claim that we're all about to drown in the terrifying new game of pushing people off ladders while standing on your head eating a donut on the second tuesday of each month. Especially when most of the reports are, at best, assaults for unknown cause by a group of people. That's enough to make you think there's a concerted "game" afoot?

edit: awesome possum, on 21 Nov 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Yeah, you're right, dead people are minor if there's single-digits. After all, the Boston bombing only killed 3 people. We shouldn't get upset about terrorism just because only three people were killed.

A true statement, yes. Should we mourn? Sure. Should we (as a nation) check to see if more events are likely? Yep. Should we (as a nation) take reasonable measures to stop future attacks? Sure, why not. Should we (as individuals) do anything different about our daily lives? No, that would be a gross overreaction. Should we take a totally isolated bombing with a completely different MO two years later and automatically assume the exact same organization and motive for the attack despite a a lack of any evidence? No, that would be foolish. Should it be breathlessly reported as having the exact same motive without any evidence? No, that would be highly irresponsible by the media.

edit: Come on, dude. The thread is like two pages long.

[Chun-Li]

My troll detection skills are pretty much like most peoples, whatever angers or slightly annoys me is trolling

Actually, that wasn't directed at you but at someone above. Not trying to be rude or anything Ser Scott but I don't think that anyone can be serious while saying live and let others punch random strangers in the face.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

What the fuck? How in any way is punching people with the goal of knocking them out anywhere equal to ding-dong-ditch?

Didn't you read where a said a less violent version of it? That's the only difference between this and ringing doorbells, is the violence.

If it's fairly common for kids to fuk with random people for fun, it's natural to assume that some fringe kids will be extreme with it.

[awesome possum]

You could read the rest of the thread where I talk about some of those very same links and possibly note that in almost all of the examples you provide, the claim that it was " a game for fun" comes from the people investigating (and usually not even that: its the mayor who often makes the connection to the "game" and they're just as susceptible to fwd:fwd:fwd:fwd: messages as anyone else), not from any of the people involved, and that reports often leave out some pretty important information in ways that make me think they're deliberately trying to mislead people into thinking there's an "epidemic."

Or you know, the fact that its been reported since 1992 automatically makes me think claims of "sweeping the nation" are kind of ridiculously bullshit. Do I think that very, very isolated groups of people may go around trying to knock someone out for fun? Sure. There's probably someone out there who shoves baby crocodile shit into their eyeballs for fun too. Do I think that "sweeping the nation" and "terrifying new game that's claimed lives already!" is absolutely fearmongering media dipshits trying to make a story on a slow day. You bet your ass, since for four deaths in two years in a country of 300+ million I could probably make a claim that we're all about to drown in the terrifying new game of pushing people off ladders while standing on your head eating a donut on the second tuesday of each month. Especially when most of the reports are, at best, assaults for unknown cause by a group of people. That's enough to make you think there's a concerted "game" afoot?

Four deaths and countless assaults. But you're right, it's just kids having fun and talking about the story is just fearmongering. Let's just let those kids have fun.

Didn't you read where a said a less violent version of it? That's the only difference between this and ringing doorbells, is the violence.

If it's fairly common for kids to fuk with random people for fun, it's natural to assume that some fringe kids will be extreme with it.

I read everything you said and what you said remains fairly ignorant if you think there is any comparison at all between ringing a doorbell and running away and trying to punch a stranger so hard you knock them out cold.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Eoe,

Actually, that wasn't directed at you but at someone above. Not trying to be rude or anything Ser Scott but I don't think that anyone can be serious while saying live and let others punch random strangers in the face.

Perhaps it is sarcasm. But without a wink or something that's really hard to tell.

[Merentha]

Four deaths and countless assaults. But you're right, it's just kids having fun and talking about the story is just fearmongering. Let's just let those kids have fun.

You're arguing in good faith, I see. Could you tell me where I said that? Anywhere?

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I read everything you said and what you said remains fairly ignorant if you think there is any comparison at all between ringing a doorbell and running away and trying to punch a stranger so hard you knock them out cold.

Well I think it's ignorant to not see a comparison.

This is reported as a game that kids are doing "for fun" because they are "bored".

Same reason kids throw water balloons off of balconies on people's heads.

To claim it's only about the violence of knocking people out, that's just called starting a fight or giving a cheap shot, which should clearly not be seen as anything new to society

[awesome possum]

You're arguing in good faith, I see. Could you tell me where I said that? Anywhere?

Your nonchalance about the issue said it for you. Your claim that evidence of groups of teens in multiple cities "playing" this "game" doesn't indicate a trend said it for you. But hey, whatever floats your boat. I've got the scar on my left eyebrow that shows it's not something to take fucking lightly.

Well I think it's ignorant to not see a comparison.

This is reported as a game that kids are doing "for fun" because they are "bored".

Same reason kids throw water balloons off of balconies on people's heads.

To claim it's only about the violence of knocking people out, that's just called starting a fight or giving a cheap shot, which should clearly not be seen as anything new to society

I'm not going to argue with you. Your actions in the NFL thread pretty adequately show why.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I'm not going to argue with you. Your actions in the NFL thread pretty adequately show why.

What a fucking lame cop out

Sheesh, the world has gone crazy because the Panthers outplayed the Patriots on Monday Night Football.

[Merentha]

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/04/29/motive-unknown-in-bethel-park-assault-on-business-owners/

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/i-team-50-gun-murders-remain-unsolved-in-bay-area

http://www.ktre.com/story/24025081/br-teen-shot-in-the-chest-outside-lafayette-home-motive-unknown

Is this a new "deadeye" game that's sweeping the nation? Our reporters have found evidence that countless assaults have occurred in the last few years, all linked by one terrifying commonality: A person or group of persons kills someone else with a firearm for reasons that are unable to be determined. We can only surmise that the assailants are trying to see if they can kill their target with one shot, because in the absence of any other motive, lets just go with whatever gets the biggest headlines.

http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/news/displaynews.asp?NewsID=2410&TargetID=225

http://www.wtnh.com/news/crime/wallingford-police-looking-for-motive-in-gas-station-attack

Here we see a chilling example of an obvious "Stabbystab" game, where a poor innocent man was attacked by ~~unknown assailants~~ for an unknown reason. While there are no known connections to anything in Palo Alto, our reporters have uncovered evidence that 13 months ago in a totally different state, there was another attack on another person with no obvious motive. In this game, people try to inflict as many cuts as possible in three seconds before fleeing the scene.

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/20110511/motives-remain-unknown-in-whittier-library-scissors-assault

This is a variant of Stabbystab called "Stabitha" where players deliberately handicap themselves by using scissors instead of a knife.

http://www.southphillyreview.com/news/police-report/Assaulted-for-unknown-reason-144730115.html

Is this an example of "Knockout"? After all, its an assault on someone with no obvious motive, which is about all that links the majority of your cases. Maybe its because Knockout as any kind of "thing" is a fabrication.

Your nonchalance about the issue said it for you. Your claim that evidence of groups of teens in multiple cities "playing" this "game" doesn't indicate a trend said it for you. But hey, whatever floats your boat. I've got the scar on my left eyebrow that shows it's not something to take fucking lightly.

Your evidence is pretty damn faulty, since like I've said, its about as connected as everything I listed above. No, I don't see a trend. "Motive unknown" does not mean "lets jump to sick game". In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite thing you're accusing me of doing. "Hey, maybe lets not gin up stories of assaults being a game when really, we don't know what the fuck" translates in your head to me saying "oh, in fact it must be a game because even though I've been arguing that it isn't a game, lets just go ahead and jump in and say that for reasons." My supposed nonchalance does not mean you get to decide what I am saying, especially when what I am saying is the exact opposite. I do not think its a game. You take that as evidence that I said "lets just kids be kids and play their games, amirite?" That's pretty silly of you.

[awesome possum]

The video posted earlier of a kid who was shot playing the "game" giving a news interview from jail where he admits he and his friends played the game many times is just happenstance. The videos of kids bragging about how fun the "game" is surely is also just happenstance. Just a coincidence that these kids are talking and bragging about playing a game they call Knockout and there also uptick of assaults (and murders) happening from kids playing a game called Knockout.

[Merentha]

The video posted earlier of a kid who was shot playing the "game" giving a news interview from jail where he admits he and his friends played the game many times is just happenstance. The videos of kids bragging about how fun the "game" is surely is also just happenstance. Just a coincidence that these kids are talking and bragging about playing a game they call Knockout and there also uptick of assaults (and murders) happening from kids playing a game called Knockout.

Are you shocked that people get online and brag about things they probably haven't done? I'm not. As for the uptick in reporting of Knockout coinciding with the kids talking about it, do you believe there was an increase in shark attacks in 2001? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_the_Shark

Lets go through your links one by one, then

http://gothamist.com/2013/11/13/video_nypd_investigating_knockout_s.php Who in this link attributes it to Knockout? The perpetrators? No. In fact, its a totally unrelated guy who also says its anti-Semitic. I thought knockout involved targeting random strangers? Now it involves targeting Jews. Okay, sure, nothing says it can't be targeting random Jews. Lets keep looking. This is maybe Knockout.

Or this one: http://www.kfbk.com/articles/kfbk-news-461777/watch-new-jersey-teens-create-a-11823379/ Oh, its a dude on the street who knows what Knockout is. Bonus points: One of the videos is from the attack in Pittsburgh, but that doesn't change them from implying its an attack in New Jersey. All this takes is taking an assault, then sending a reporter out to ask people what knockout is and splicing the clips together. I know what knockout supposedly is, thanks to news reports on it since 1992, and you could easily cut to make it seem like I personally know people who do it.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Police-look-into-the-possibility-of-another-knockout-attack-in-south-St-Louis-232751461.html

Oh, in this one, here's what happens. There's an attack with no known motive. Reporter says it was knockout because of the "growing national trend" of knockout. Which, as I'm hopefully showing to people here, is entirely circular reasoning.

Or this: http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/09/22/st-cloud-man-dies-after-random-punch/ Absolutely no mention of knockout anywhere in the video or article, but that doesn't stop you from counting it. You're literally counting a random assault with no connection to anything as part of a "national trend." Good job.

This one? http://www.syracuse.com/kirst/index.ssf/2013/05/post_493.html Well, here's a quote from the link: "What the chief did say, emphatically, is that investigators do not believe this was a gang initiation, or any formalized gang activity. It was far less organized, which makes it no less frightening." Also, who in this link attributes it to knockout? Witnesses, who at best saw an assault for unknown reasons. The article makes no mention of why they said it was knockout, but maybe one of the perpetrators involved was screaming out loud as the act was committed, I don't know.

So...two. Two of your supposed five links are possible. Good ratio, especially when some include obvious examples of denying you information to further stoke local viewers' fear. Maybe you should get on with finding me some more links, then, since the ones you posted were pretty fucking weak.

[awesome possum]

Look, if you don't think its a thing worth talking about, then don't talk about it. It's really that simple. The game exists and there has been a clear uptick in assaults due to it in the last couple years. You can try to strawman it by bringing up sharks and guns and anything else to set your mind at ease, but there have been clear instances of this happening in several US cities. "I don't want to believe it" does not make it magically go away. Is it an epidemic that means you should hide in your house? No. Is it worth discussing? Why not? This is a discussion board, after all.

You're literally counting a random assault with no connection to anything as part of a "national trend."

That's literally what the game is, random assaults with no connections to anything, but you've made up your mind. So why are you still talking about it?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Merentha,

If there are many reports of random attacks does it matter whether those attacks are because of "knockout", "Lights-out", or "happy slaps"? The jerks who are doing it should be prosecuted.

End of story. You seem to want to minimize it. Other's want to imply it's a crisis. I'm saying don't freak out prosecute the assholes and have done.

[awesome possum]

Other's want to imply it's a crisis.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone implying that. It's something worth noting because the thing about trends is that they grow or disappear. Spreading the word and making people aware of its existence, and thus a call for prosecutions, helps push it toward disappear.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

AP,

Fair enough. I do agree with you that it should not be ignored.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Merentha,

If there are many reports of random attacks does it matter whether those attacks are because of "knockout", "Lights-out", or "happy slaps"? The jerks who are doing it should be prosecuted.

End of story. You seem to want to minimize it. Other's want to imply it's a crisis. I'm saying don't freak out prosecute the assholes and have done.

I think merenthas issue is the same as mine.

The way it's being reported,

Random attacks are already a crime and are prosecuted.

Random attacks have always occurred, it isn't some new trend.

It's being reported like its HIV circa 1985, some new epidemic that we all have to heighten our awareness about.

[Merentha]

Merentha,

If there are many reports of random attacks does it matter whether those attacks are because of "knockout", "Lights-out", or "happy slaps"? The jerks who are doing it should be prosecuted.

End of story. You seem to want to minimize it. Other's want to imply it's a crisis. I'm saying don't freak out prosecute the assholes and have done.

I want to minimize people fearmongering over it, yes. I think its irresponsible and wrong to do so. I agree that the people involved should be prosecuted, because its assault (or battery, or whatever statutes your state chooses to use)

That's literally what the game is, random assaults with no connections to anything, but you've made up your mind. So why are you still talking about it?

So, any random assault is now automatically an example of knockout? That's exactly the thing I'd like people to stay away from saying, especially when I'm not convinced that knockout isn't mostly a media fabrication and urban legend anyhow. Care to tell me why the unknown-motive unarmed assault I linked above isn't Knockout?

How is this anything but fearmongering? Has the rate of assaults gone up? Not that I can see. So we're worried about a specific type of assault? One that may or may not even exist since the evidence for it existing is that people know what it is and that there's a growing trend (of equally dubious claims). If it doesn't change the rates of assault, I don't give a damn, because then all I see is people attributing formerly "unknown motive" assaults to "knockout." There isn't a change in the number of assaults, just the attribution of motive. The danger to people hasn't changed, the prosecution of the crime hasn't changed, only the perception of the reason. Like I've said repeatedly, I'm sure that people are hitting other people for fun. They did before there was media attention on it and they'll do it after, in roughly the same numbers. But now its called something, and that means ratings, searchable phrases, attributing random assaults with zero evidence of it being a game to it, and it being a "thing."

Then there's the fact that I'm just waiting for the race baiting to start again, just like it did in Pittsburgh. I think if we looked at examples claimed to be "knockout" and examples of random assault with unknown motive not being claimed as knockout, you'd see a lot more African Americans in the former. cf looting and salvaging during Katrina. I'm certainly not saying that this was a reason anyone here is discussing it, but I think it is going to be an undeniable part of the media coverage. And I think, again, that that's wrong and irresponsible.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone implying that. It's something worth noting because the thing about trends is that they grow or disappear. Spreading the word and making people aware of its existence, and thus a call for prosecutions, helps push it toward disappear.

Do you think it should be prosecuted more vigorously than other assaults that cause similar bodily harm? Why?

Calling it a "new trend" and "getting big in the Northeast" like our OP did, and "sweeping the nation" and "terrifying new game" don't read as people trying to fabricate a crisis to you? How is this anything but assault, that deserves to be prosecuted like assault, and doesn't changing the statistical numbers for assault (that I can see)?

Its assault, and has been assault, and will be assault, and calling it knockout and breathlessly talking about it buys into a media fabrication.