Hardholme/Doom link?

[Ice 82]

Hi all,first post so please take it easy on me!One of the many mysteries in the books that many seem to underestimate is the explosion at Hardholme. From the descriptions,the event sounds slightly similar, though admittedly on a much smaller scale, to the doom of Valyria. I read somewhere on the forum that there was a theory that the FM were the cause of the doom, to gain revenge for past mistreatment. Could Hardholme have been a practice run for the doom?Its location is close enough to Braavos to observe closely. Crackpot I admit,but seemed to be a possibility the more I thought about it. Feel free to correct my noob mistakes :)

[King of Winters]

Welcome to the Forum Ice 82 :cheers:

I think there are two possibilities, one is this theory were it was a practice for the Facless Men for the Doom of Valyria or it could have possibly been Fire Wyrms. Being the first proper town (sort of) of the Wildlings, they could have started mining and delved too greedily and awoke the Fire Wyrms.

[Free Northman Reborn]

I think the Faceless Men recovered the Horn of Joramun, which can "wake giants from the earth".

The Horn in fact awakes volcanic eruptions. It was tested close to where they found it in the Far North, causing the Hardhome eruption 600 years ago.

After this proof, they smuggled it into Valyria 400 years ago, after the Valyrians had discovered the location of Braavos and were preparing to invade.

When the Horn was blown in Valyria, it awoke the Fourteen Fires and BOOM went the DOOM.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

http://www.picturesnew.com/aliens-meme.html

[Ice 82]

Im just a suspicious bstard!Given the choice of simple(ish) solution, or complex, multi levelled, brain screwing conspiracy-I choose the latter :devil:

[Ice 82]

I think the Faceless Men recovered the Horn of Joramun, which can "wake giants from the earth".

The Horn in fact awakes volcanic eruptions. It was tested close to where they found it in the Far North, causing the Hardhome eruption 600 years ago.

After this proof, they smuggled it into Valyria 400 years ago, after the Valyrians had discovered the location of Braavos and were preparing to invade.

When the Horn was blown in Valyria, it awoke the Fourteen Fires and BOOM went the DOOM.

Big fan of this :agree:

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

Big fan of this :agree:

I would be too (as I believe the horn wakes volcanoes and was used at Hardhome) if I wasn't so convinced that Sam's broken horn is the real Horn of Joramun. It makes no sense that the horn would survive Valyria and make its way back to beyond the Wall.

[Ser Creighton]

Ran, or I think it was Ran had a theory on this. I believe, and don't quote me because I read the theory like a year ago that he believed it was Volcanic activity. It is also hinted by Patchface that there is an underwater Volcano in the bay of seals.

I do think both were Volcanos, however I think it was the Children who did it. I believe the Hammer of the Waters is in fact the horn of Joramun.

Valyria and the Arm of Dorne were both broken in the same way, it's just that Valyria had more Volcanoes. Valyria was attached to Essos. I Believe the children tried to split the continent because Dragons were taking over the world at the time and becoming to powerful. The balance of magic was unbalanced.

The arm of Dorne. Hammer of the waters, continent was divided.

The northern Marsh children attempted to split the continent but failed. Probably do to lack of a Volcano. Though the North appears to have some Volcanic activity, like the Winterfell hot springs.

Hardhome, I actually think was a natural disaster, and we have the Patchface jingle. Though if the Others had come to take the people at Hardhome the children may have used the Hammer of the waters to try and stop them, Hardhome becomes collateral damage.

The Wall, I also think was the Children using the hammer of the Waters, it is in a perfect spot to split the continent, but somehow it failed and the Others froze it and man used it as a natural defense after that and built over it.

Personal theory the Horn is in fact the children. I tend to think of them as trying to keep a balance between fire and Ice as the two magics seem to screw up the weather big time.

[yolkboy]

I think the Faceless Men recovered the Horn of Joramun, which can "wake giants from the earth".

The Horn in fact awakes volcanic eruptions. It was tested close to where they found it in the Far North, causing the Hardhome eruption 600 years ago.

After this proof, they smuggled it into Valyria 400 years ago, after the Valyrians had discovered the location of Braavos and were preparing to invade.

When the Horn was blown in Valyria, it awoke the Fourteen Fires and BOOM went the DOOM.

The Horn in fact awakes volcanic eruptions summons firewyrms that cause volcanic eruptions. Horns are to make a sound for creatures to hear, right? There's the kraken horn, the dragon horn - and the horn to wake giants. We're told firewyrms grow monstrously large and are like giant dragons under the earth. Perhaps the horn wakes up lots at the same time or something, and boom!

I think there must be a reason for the existence of firewyrms in the story, other than to roast a few slaves. There's definitely volcanic activity around Hardholme, because of the dragonglass. So there will be firewyrms too. Remember the horn that wakes the sleepers is presented as a potential weapon against the Others. I can't think of a better weapon against the Others than fire-breathing monsters living under the surface, being summoned.

[Ser Creighton]

Welcome to the Forum Ice 82 :cheers:

I think there are two possibilities, one is this theory were it was a practice for the Facless Men for the Doom of Valyria or it could have possibly been Fire Wyrms. Being the first proper town (sort of) of the Wildlings, they could have started mining and delved too greedily and awoke the Fire Wyrms.

Is that a mix between Gondolin and Khazad-dum. Cause it sounds like a cross between the two.

[King of Winters]

Is that a mix between Gondolin and Khazad-dum. Cause it sounds like a cross between the two.

I just like saying it like that :)

[Ser Creighton]

I just like saying it like that :)

Ok, a flare for the dramatic, I like it.

[Ser Creighton]

The Horn in fact awakes volcanic eruptions summons firewyrms that cause volcanic eruptions. Horns are to make a sound for creatures to hear, right? There's the kraken horn, the dragon horn - and the horn to wake giants. We're told firewyrms grow monstrously large and are like giant dragons under the earth. Perhaps the horn wakes up lots at the same time or something, and boom!

I think there must be a reason for the existence of firewyrms in the story, other than to roast a few slaves. There's definitely volcanic activity around Hardholme, because of the dragonglass. So there will be firewyrms too. Remember the horn that wakes the sleepers is presented as a potential weapon against the Others. I can't think of a better weapon against the Others than fire-breathing monsters living under the surface, being summoned.

It could also be that the Horn of Joramun is an artifact of the Others. The horn of Winter. Hammer of the waters meets horn of winter and you get the wall, the two basically neutralize each other. Giants were said to have taken part in building the wall. I tend to have a hard time myself associating something called the horn of winter with the Children and Volcanoes, it seems counter intuitive. But the only incident I have of a super weapon is the hammer of the waters, so I tend to associate the two, but if in fact that are separate the only reasonable creator of something called the Horn of Winter would seem to be the Others. I don't think man has the ability to make something on that level of magic. So the hammer of the waters for the children, the Horn of winters for the Others.

[Valyrian Spoon]

The theory I like rearguarding Hardhome is that the COTF were somehow responsible.

I like to think they destroyed it because a large human settlement north of the wall is somehow against the peace terms reached with the first men.

[RoamingRonin]

The theory I like rearguarding Hardhome is that the COTF were somehow responsible.

I like to think they destroyed it because a large human settlement north of the wall is somehow against the peace terms reached with the first men.

I like this. I don't see why the Faceless Men would inflict such horrors on so many innocent people. The organization seems to resent that sort of thing. It does make sense fire wyrms were involved considering all the caves. Someone went to deep and woke up something.

[oursisthefury69]

Well at least from what's actually been said and implied in the books so far, the horn of joramun would be a detriment to man kind if used, I'm not sure where some people are getting the idea it's to be used against the others instead (It brings down the wall as well as waking giants, which're very doubtfully other fighting fireywryms).

To the point of the OP I definitely believe the Doom was no natural disaster.(wrote a thread a couple months ago about it as well)

I could see the faceless men participating in it as the kindly man implied, but I only believe the children would have the collective power to do so like the arm of dorne.

I think The Doom will be extremely important in the coming books, and more specifically towards The prince that was promised prophecy.

If we accept that The Doom was orchestrated by a group of people, we need to think about what resulted from the Doom and what they could've stood to gain. The Doom effectively destroyed every dragonlord and their dragons, besides the Targaryens; who mysteriously fled Valyria pre-doom as the result of a dream from a member of their house, consequently leading them to Westeros( with what were now the only living dragons) where their lineage was later prophesized to produce the Savior of the world(against the others, connected to the continent they now live on)

This leads me to believe that people have known what the woods witch told Aegon and Jahaerys many years later; that TPTWp would come from the Targaryen line. I believe this prophecy has been known for hundreds of years by certain people. Those like Quaithe ( and possibly blood raven depending on if he helps revive Jon/ has overall good intentions) have sought to guide and protect the Targs, while others have potentially sought their downfall all the same; such as whoever caused the Doom and the maesters implied to have killed the last dragons

[The 19th Dragon]

I think the furewyrms idea is interesting, because it is coherent with volcanoes, also potentially they could become involved in the war against winter.

A thought crossed my mind: isn't there a gigantic network of tunnels running below the north of Westeros? Coyld it be made by the firewyrms?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I remember someone (Tze?) had a theory that it was a failed Valyrian invasion, and that the crazy fires and mass destruction came from wargs attempting to hijack the dragons. I also think the "practice" for the Doom theory makes some sense. Whatever the connection, I do think they're probably related somehow.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

I remember someone (Tze?) had a theory that it was a failed Valyrian invasion, and that the crazy fires and mass destruction came from wargs attempting to hijack the dragons. I also think the "practice" for the Doom theory makes some sense. Whatever the connection, I do think they're probably related somehow.

yes, that's what I think happened.

[GallowsKnight]

I liked the idea that a scouting Dragon was warged unsuccessfully causing all man of craziness to happen, destroying the town.