What if Robert died of his injuries after Killing Rhaegar ?

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

if it happened long after the battle and tywin still sacked kl, he would have taken it for himself or jaime, supported aegon, or given it to stannis. ned or jon wouldnt want imo. ned would support stannis i think.

btw, i think stannis was already married at this time. i think he said that his wife was with him at storms end.

[TheCrannogDweller]

He was one of Stannis's lieutenants in the castle. If it had fallen, both of Robert's brothers would've been captured or killed.

Renly was like 5 at the time. He wasn't a lieutenant by any measure. But he was at Storm's End, yes.

[roxWolfox]

Iirc Stannis wed Selyse after he was made Lord of Dragonstone. Edric Storm was conceived on their 'marriage bed' or some such.

[MyLittleFinger]

Iirc Stannis wed Selyse after he was made Lord of Dragonstone. Edric Storm was conceived on their 'marriage bed' or some such.

Yup. Bobert the sex god infiltrating more beds than he can count.

[Ali Colak]

Interesting thought. We know that its the father who decides weather the child will be a boy a girl. If Stanis has another girl, depending on whomever he marries, a potential marriage between Jon Targarian and his daughter might be considered to unify the two claims. If Stanis could be persuaded to leave Jon alive long enough that is.

Another major change would be that neither Jon Arryn nor Ned would have the same influence over Stanis that they had over Robert, though stanis (being bearly in his twenties) might see at least the PR the advantage in an older respectable hand and appoint jon anyway.

[Waylin Stark]

Had Robert died, the entire rebellion would've fallen apart.

Robert was the face of the Rebellion. He was a charismatic leader who made tons of friends even from the worst enemies. For heaven's sake, it's called ROBERT'S Rebellion.

People tend to get affected when their leader falls. They lose hope and can be at a loss with no immediate leader to guide them and give them something worth fighting for.

Robert was one of the strongest soldiers on the battlefield, and their leader. To see him lose would affect them all.

The Northerners would have continued to follow Eddard, but I don't know about the others. Eddard didn't command loyalty amongst them as much as Robert, and wasn't as greatly loved. Their resolve would waver.

Stannis, who had joined the war reluctantly only because he chose family over his king, would surrender as the leader of the Baratheon forces. He had nothing to gain by joining the war anyway. And he's not one to avenge a brother he wasn't overly fond of.

Eddard's rebellion would lose when the Lannisters would side with Aerys because Tywin would see that the tide was turning, and he'd have nobody to marry Cersei on the rebellion's side, though nobody for her to marry on Aerys' side either. She'd probably wed Oberyn Martell or Willas Tyrell.

Eddard and Jon Arryn would get executed. Probably Hoster Tully too.

And if Aerys was feeling madder than usual, probably all the Starks, Arryns, Tullys and Baratheons as well.

Some other lords would become Lords Paramount of the region.

So no Sack would occur.

No Targs in exile (Viserys, Dany).

Probably no dragons hatched.

And no fAegon.

And eventually we'd have another Mad King, Viserys.

And probably quite a few rebellions again when he'd go do something stupid.

ETA: My mistake, Aegon would be King. Not Viserys. Though you can still count on Viserys to do something stupid later on and cause trouble for Aegon.

[Stormland's Fury]

I do not think they would have crowned Stannis, after all, Robert was no king yet. I think maybe Tywin would have joined forces with Aryes if he knew Robert died. I think it mostly likely that the rebellion falls apart, remember, Robert was very handsome and likable back then.

But wouldn't they crown Stannis because of the same "reason" as Robert for having Targ blood? Plus he was the one holding Dragonstone.

[ChaosImprisonateMe]

I kind of disagree with you. The mad king basically forced many of the families to go all out. I do believe it would have been a more "broken" victory. Stannis on the throne would have possibly resulted in the same situation, however I think the Stark involvement would be entirely different.

[ChaosImprisonateMe]

It would be really weird to have Cersei and Stannis marry though. I wonder if she would have resulted to be more loyal because of Stannis stance on justice. She did say she was in love with Robert, but it died out. I wonder if Robert was the reason why she became so trecherous.

[Stormland's Fury]

It would be really weird to have Cersei and Stannis marry though. I wonder if she would have resulted to be more loyal because of Stannis stance on justice. She did say she was in love with Robert, but it died out. I wonder if Robert was the reason why she became so trecherous.

He would be more faithful to her though. He's not romantic and wouldn't cater to her vanity, but he wouldn't insult her either.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Had Robert died, the entire rebellion would've fallen apart.

Robert was the face of the Rebellion. He was a charismatic leader who made tons of friends even from the worst enemies. For heaven's sake, it's called ROBERT'S Rebellion.

People tend to get affected when their leader falls. They lose hope and can be at a loss with no immediate leader to guide them and give them something worth fighting for.

Robert was one of the strongest soldiers on the battlefield, and their leader. To see him lose would affect them all.

The Northerners would have continued to follow Eddard, but I don't know about the others. Eddard didn't command loyalty amongst them as much as Robert, and wasn't as greatly loved. Their resolve would waver.

Stannis, who had joined the war reluctantly only because he chose family over his king, would surrender as the leader of the Baratheon forces. He had nothing to gain by joining the war anyway. And he's not one to avenge a brother he wasn't overly fond of.

Eddard's rebellion would lose when the Lannisters would side with Aerys because Tywin would see that the tide was turning, and he'd have nobody to marry Cersei on the rebellion's side, though nobody for her to marry on Aerys' side either. She'd probably wed Oberyn Martell or Willas Tyrell.

Eddard and Jon Arryn would get executed. Probably Hoster Tully too.

And if Aerys was feeling madder than usual, probably all the Starks, Arryns, Tullys and Baratheons as well.

Some other lords would become Lords Paramount of the region.

So no Sack would occur.

No Targs in exile (Viserys, Dany).

Probably no dragons hatched.

And no fAegon.

And eventually we'd have another Mad King, Viserys.

And probably quite a few rebellions again when he'd go do something stupid.

First of all, had Aerys won the war, Aegon would've been his heir, not Viserys.

Second, you're vastly overestimating Robert's significance for the Rebellion. Yes, he was important, but he was only one of the leaders - and the one with the smallest army at that. He was important because of his pedigree - and he had 2 brothers who could've taken over his role.

Third, the moment Rhaegar died, Tywin was on his way to the capital to sack it and put an end to Aerys.

Fourth, you're underestimating Tywin's hatred for Aerys.

[Lord Reaver]

We know that its the father who decides weather the child will be a boy a girl.

Come again ? And here I thought it was a stochastic process with probabilities dependent on a whole host of different factors. Turns out, it's the father who decides. :bang:

[Ali Colak]

Come again ? And here I thought it was a stochastic process with probabilities dependent on a whole host of different factors. Turns out, it's the father who decides. :bang:

The father's sperm contribute's either a Y-Chromosome (which the mother lacks) making the baby male, or an X-Chromosome making the baby female. The father does not literally decide the baby's sex, but his spirm is generaly the determining factor. I could be wrong, but I've always heard of it as accepted science, your quite wellcome to correct me if you have information to the contrary.

[Stormland's Fury]

Wait what?

[Good Guy Garlan]

Tywin double-crosses the shit out of everyone. He tells Aerys he's come to help him, then takes control of the city and declares Aegon king (he also spares Elia and Rhaenys).

So Mace and Redwyne don't surrender as long as Aegon still lives, so Storm's End falls eventually. With Stannis and Renly hostage or killed, the rebels lose most of the stormlords. Tywin cuts a deal with Ned, Jon and Hoster. After all, the Targs that wronged them are already dead, the city belongs to the Lannisters and there's a fresh Tyrell army right around the corner. So a peace is achieved eventually.

Tywin stays Hand (of course), Elia as regent to appease the Martells, and Tywin being the smart man he is knows that he needs the Tyrells in his corner, so he arranges a bethrodal between Aegon and Margaery. He also knows he needs to appease the rebels, so he offers to marry Rhaenys to Edmure. I think Cersei marries Viserys as well, and he becomes Prince of Dragonstone. Maybe Renly marries Dany to effectively bind all houses to the Targs.

[Waylin Stark]

First of all, had Aerys won the war, Aegon would've been his heir, not Viserys.

Second, you're vastly overestimating Robert's significance for the Rebellion. Yes, he was important, but he was only one of the leaders - and the one with the smallest army at that. He was important because of his pedigree - and he had 2 brothers who could've taken over his role.

Third, the moment Rhaegar died, Tywin was on his way to the capital to sack it and put an end to Aerys.

Fourth, you're underestimating Tywin's hatred for Aerys.

How the hell did I forget Aegon was in line ahead of Viserys??? :bang:

Ok, I agree I overestimated Robert's significance.

But I still think Stannis would have bowed out of the rebellion. He follows laws to the letter, and was conflicted to join the Rebellion in the first place.

Still, who knows?

And only Stannis could have taken over the role, Renly was just a kid.

Also, Tywin wouldn't have sacked the city just out of hatred for Aerys.

He sacked KL to prove to Robert he was on his side.

He was opportunistic.

He might have stopped and considered helping Aerys had he learned Robert died.

[TheCrannogDweller]

But I still think Stannis would have bowed out of the rebellion. He follows laws to the letter, and was conflicted to join the Rebellion in the first place.

I don't think Stannis is capable of quitting once he has committed to a cause, so I don't think he would've bowed out.

Also, Tywin wouldn't have sacked the city just out of hatred for Aerys.

He sacked KL to prove to Robert he was on his side.

He was opportunistic.

He might have stopped and considered helping Aerys had he learned Robert died.

Again, I think you underestimate just how much Aerys managed to piss Tywin off and hurt his pride.

In fact, I'm fairly convinced that even after Rhaegar was killed at the Trident, the Loyalists could've still won the war - if Tywin had joined them. They still had numerical superiority over the Rebels - what they lacked was a strong leader, and despite his flaws, Tywin was the perfect man for the job.

[roxWolfox]

The father's sperm contribute's either a Y-Chromosome (which the mother lacks) making the baby male, or an X-Chromosome making the baby female. The father does not literally decide the baby's sex, but his spirm is generaly the determining factor. I could be wrong, but I've always heard of it as accepted science, your quite wellcome to correct me if you have information to the contrary.

No disagreement here. If the Y sperm is speedier (because its smaller) than the X sperm...it's a boy. :D Males are XY, females are XX.

But there are other factors: diet, stress, environment.

And didn't Selyse have a few miscarriages that were male? Or am I 'misremembering'?

[Ours if the Fury]

Jon Arryn would have become king IMO

[averde]

Depends on how bad the wounds are. If Robert doesn't die immediately and survived even for a day or two, Stannis would be king.

Tywin was racing to the capital and Ned was too immediately following the battle. If Robert survives the immediate battle then Tywin reaches the city and sacks it, no change at all there.