Jambottle Jeebus Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I was just watching a video that Elio had made, in which he and Linda mention Lord Manderly feeding the Freys a pie containing the missing Freys!I completely missed this during my reading... Anyways, This thought is quite intriguing , but I don't understand why Manderly would do something so macabre ... Its very reminiscent of the rat cook story. Seems a dangerous thing to do if you are the superstitious sort. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LROSyke Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I totally missed it too. Like, right over my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon has three heads Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 ...hey noobs :)The Freys murdered maderlys son, his liege, his knights, his men at arms, threatened to murder his surviving son...what would you do in his place? I know id be serving Frey steaks quicker than you could say too fat to sit a horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 http://37.media.tumblr.com/7043932bb1cfdfa389b8ecefb88c510a/tumblr_n40tg80CWj1qmz4rgo1_500.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambottle Jeebus Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 yes. I get that ... but to feed them a pie during a feast is opening a bag of bad omens for the Manderlys... eg. guest rite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon has three heads Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Well, that's thy he waited til they left to kill them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Manderly made it very clear to the Frey party they no longer had guest right as once they got to the border he gave them the traditional parting gifts (You give them once someone is no longer your guest)And sent them on their way.Also for those who missed it in the books when Manderly is eating the pies he asks for the song "The Rat Cook" to be played. Manderly didn't break Guest Right and eating people isn't really taboo for the "Old Gods" As for why he did it well "The North Remembers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Freys, Lannisters and Boltons dont give a damn about taboo anyway. But cannibalism is indeed considered taboo in most culture, and it is a common slander used against ennemies, just like incest.The northerners are not different, since they label the wildlings and the skagosi, long-time ennemies, as cannibals, even if the practice is probably not a common occurence. A population cannot thrives on human flesh, since humans consume more than cattle and grow slower. Ritualistic cannibalism may exist, but is probably considered horrendous amongst most wildlings and skagosi, except maybe some remote tribes. Even if Wyman is mad at the freys (which is totally understandable) and undoubtly had Rhaegar, Symond and Jared executed, i hardly believe he really had them cooked, stuffed in a pie, and ate them.He likely dumped the bodies, but came with 3 pies, asking the rat cook song while feasting, to make the freys and boltons unconfortable, suggesting them they actually had eaten relatives.Because even if he is very determined to exact his revenge, i hardly believe he could do something as abhorrent as engaging in cannibalism.Did his knights was fed the "frey" pies? It would proves my point, i cant believe dozens of people, even sworn to their lord, would eat human flesh wittingly.Difficult to tell however, since the pies were intended for the bolton's table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Freys, Lannisters and Boltons dont give a damn about taboo anyway. But cannibalism is indeed considered taboo in most culture, and it is a common slander used against ennemies, just like incest. The northerners are not different, since they label the wildlings and the skagosi, long-time ennemies, as cannibals, even if the practice is probably not a common occurence. A population cannot thrives on human flesh, since humans consume more than cattle and grow slower. Ritualistic cannibalism may exist, but is probably considered horrendous amongst most wildlings and skagosi, except maybe some remote tribes. Even if Wyman is mad at the freys (which is totally understandable) and undoubtly had Rhaegar, Symond and Jared executed, i hardly believe he really had them cooked, stuffed in a pie, and ate them. He likely dumped the bodies, but came with 3 pies, asking the rat cook song while feasting, to make the freys and boltons unconfortable, suggesting them they actually had eaten relatives. Because even if he is very determined to exact his revenge, i hardly believe he could do something as abhorrent as engaging in cannibalism. Did his knights was fed the "frey" pies? It would proves my point, i cant believe dozens of people, even sworn to their lord, would eat human flesh wittingly. Difficult to tell however, since the pies were intended for the bolton's table. You have to consider the fact that the Freys and the Boltons murdered Wyman's King his son and killed over 3k men at the RW.Also the fact that no one gets the reference to the Rat Cook as everyone eats the pies (Roose waits for Wyman to eat before he does) Fat Walda eats 3 slices herself.And I doubt he would have told anyone besides a handful of people. And lastly he didn't do it because he likes the taste of human flesh he did it because the Freys broke Guest Right and in the story of the "Rat Cook" the cook was turned into a rat who can only eat his own children.So Manderly gave the exact punishment the Gods gave to the Rat Cook to the Freys for their violation of Guest Right. The Manderlys may not originally be from the north but they are true northmen. "The North Remembers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I dont contradict the fact Manderly executed the freys, but eating them for real is useless and grizzly. He's compassionate and loyal, and far more subtle than his ennemies. And anyway relentless in his revenge. He tried to instil in their minds the idea he fed them with relatives, a reference only a northerner (Bolton in this case) would understand. Roose strongly suspects Wyman had the frey killed, and the pies plus the rat cook song is just a message adressed to him. That he shall pay. Ddid Bolton's got the message? Hard to tell. He ate the pie anyway, just on the reason it wasnt poisoned. He didnt suspect it was human flesh. So its probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 He has no compassion for the Freys and the Bolton's...they murdered his son and killed his King.If the "Rat Cook" for violating Guest Right once was transformed into a rat that can only eat his children what do you think is a fitting punishment for someone who violates Guest Right over 3 thousand times in a single night. I highly doubt Roose got the reference as an entire room full of Northmen and Rivermen didn't get the Rains reference.Its just not something anyone would expect to happen.I mean Bran tells the story to Meera and her brother and they didn't know it so its possible the story is one that isn't well known.Not to mention Roose doesn't care for music or anything like that and I highly doubt he read bedtime stories to Ramsey so he might not even know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Another thing to remember is that Wylis was made an inadvertant cannibal when he was fed "goat" (Vargo Hoat) while a prisoner at Harrenhall. The Frey pies were not only a statement about what happened at the Red Wedding, but what happened to Wylis inspired the method of revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGriff Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Wash it down with Arbor gold and savor every bite. I know I shall. Love me some Wyman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteWolf Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Hah I had completely forgotten that bent branch, an excellent point. Lord Manderly may be mocked by friends and foes alike but beneath those layers of blubber I believe he is much more cunning than people realise.That he killed the missing Freys is unquestionable and he certainly broke no laws of guest right. But I don't see him as the kind of person to eat human flesh to get revenge, I think he is just playing mind games with those clever enough (Bolton) to understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrik Stark Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Hey, first post here :)I completely ignored this posibility that you talk about. But then again, think about it. The Manderlys were exiled and 'raised by the wolves', they were given a land to rule and a holdfast from where to do it. They owe them everything and, as we can see in Davos' last chapter, they really value the Starks. What the Freys did at the Red Wedding shattered all the laws of Westeros, and it is compared with that little story of the Rat Cook. Starks getting avenged by serving Freys in a pie seems a pretty good response I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin's Ghost Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I suppose that very few argue that the Freys didn't deserve some Frey pie but that Manderly and his allies also partaking of the grisly meal seems a bit off. I could see that from a desperate, emotionally strung out person but not from a cool, calculating person somewhat in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Tyler Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I imagine there wasn't enough Frey to go around and the host (Bolton) and certain others were served the best pieces.Would Ramsay have cared if he had known?I thought this was great and in great Martin style the Roman legend of Titus :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Hugh Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 The story of the rat king had significance. I beleive it was Manderlys intent to be ironic as well as to avenge the Starks and his son. Also...Kill all Freys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceHenryris Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Roose wouldn't eat or drink anything without seeing Wyman eat or drink it first. If Wyman wanted to feed the dead Freys to the Boltons and Freys, he had to be seen eating the pies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankou Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Am I the only one who thinks it sounded delicious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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