Oath keeper, Golden Hand, and a Lady with a heart of stone

[Poppa Chase]

Pure speculation obviously. But I'm pretty certain these events will roll out this way, to some extent or another.

First things first, the grouping for the BWB

Beric loyalists

Anguy, Edric Dayne, Tom o seven, Harwin, Gendry

Stone heart loyalists

Thoros, Lem and I can't remember anyone else.

Jaime and Brienne are on a journey to save Sansa Stark from the Hound, in the RiverLands. We all know the truth. Lem is the hound now.

Lady Stone Heart and company, are some where in the RiverLands as well. But I believe they aren't sitting still. In fact they are traveling pretty quickly, on their way to a wedding.

I believe that Daven Lannister will be marrying Fair Walda Frey, at Riverrun. The POV will be from Maester Vyman. I believe Tom is in league with the Beric loyalists, and we know he is inside. He may have gotten in touch with the Blackfish, who I believe is still inside, and they may have set these plans in motion. They massacre the men and take some hostages during the wedding and in the wake of things, Lady Stoneheart shows up with her Brotherhood, as well as Edmure, and Jeyne. Her force I believe will have vastly outnumbered the Beric Loyalists. I have no textual backup for this, I just think so. So these others will secede to her. They then hangs all the Freys and Lannisters from the rafters. They leave heading North

Now we have Jaimes POV and not Briennes, they arrive at Riverrun to find the massacre and hung men. Brienne is shocked to find out they are gone. They hear that the hound and company sacked the city and left heading north, with a young highborn girl looks to be a maid. Jaime assumes it is Sansa.

They head all the way up through to the Twins, where they find it sacked and in the same condition as Riverrun. Walder Frey is hung above his throne, as well as his entire family.

They hear more word and travel North into Moat Cailin, which is in the same situation. Bolton men dead and hung.

They pass through into the Barrowlands which have met the same end. And at this point Brienne finally breaks the news to Jaime. He decided at this point that he had better face what he has coming to him. They approach Winterfell. The brotherhood has occupied it. Manderly told the brotherhood that the stark boys are alive. Rickon has been recovered by Davos and is with Manderlys family in White Harbor.

Lady Stoneheart hears Jaimes plea. He begs her to let him right his wrongs. Let him find the boy he crippled, let him save her oldest living son. She sends him with Brienne to go beyond the wall to find him.

Not sure what happens with any other characters.

Why stannis hasn't made it. If Roose, and Ramsay are there. Where they picked up their numbers. These are questions I don't know the answer to, but story wise I feel like this is where it's going.

[Ser Charles of Rosehaven]

You are being pretty much optimistic. That wont happen. I can bet on it

[Nozlym]

ok i stopped reading after the first few lines

robb did not know how to warg... so the end

[Poppa Chase]

ok i stopped reading after the first few lines

robb did not know how to warg... so the end

I didn't know he had POVs. Where can I get those?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

robb did not know how to warg... so the end

It's not stated in the text, but there are some indications he actually did.

Also, all of the Stark children could warg, IICR.

[Thanos Targaryen]

Bran is the only Stark capable of real skinchanging. Arya can use an animal to see, smell, taste, or hear through, but she hasn't openly been able to control an animal's actions just yet. We won't know what Rickon can do until his story re-enters the books. Sansa can't warg. Neither could Robb, and he was deliberately distancing himself from Grey Wind just before the RW because the wolf was beginning to act aggressively around the Westerlings/Spicers (because he could sense their upcoming treachery) and Robb didn't want the wolf's behaviour to offend his in-laws.

And Bran had a bit of a challenge to warg a simpleton like Hodor. It'd be effectively impossible for Robb, who had shown no ability or even any interest at all in developing his own skill (assuming he even had it to begin with) into a fully sentient and self-aware person like Catelyn.

[Nozlym]

Also, all of the Stark children could warg, IICR.

please do list some threads about this

sure they all had a connection to their wolves that was beyond ordinary, like dreaming through wolf eyes like arya

but a warg is by my definition knowingly entering the concience of an animal and it doing ur bidding

[Nozlym]

but its not to say that i dont believe they didnt have the potential to all be wargs

its just they werent

[JonCon's Red Beard]

please do list some threads about this

sure they all had a connection to their wolves that was beyond ordinary, like dreaming through wolf eyes like arya

but a warg is by my definition knowingly entering the concience of an animal and it doing ur bidding

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/105670-small-questions-v-10026/page-2#entry5534286

[Nozlym]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/105670-small-questions-v-10026/page-2#entry5534286

haha i like how the person telling the tale is named Rivers, u know like Brynden Rivers who is the three eyed raven who has been known to warg many a creature

seems to me that its a plausible guess as to y grey wind found the secret way.

[Poppa Chase]

Let's pretend I don't think Robb warged into Cat last second. Now let's go on from there on topic.

[John Suburbs]

ok i stopped reading after the first few lines

robb did not know how to warg... so the end

Robb's last words were "Grey Wind." Possible sign of one final warging? Of course, that leads us to the grisly conclusion that Robb was in GW when they cut off his wolf head and put it back on his human body.

[Poppa Chase]

Robb's last words were "Grey Wind." Possible sign of one final warging? Of course, that leads us to the grisly conclusion that Robb was in GW when they cut off his wolf head and put it back on his human body.

Thats what I thought for awhile. I like it. But I wondered if maybe Grey Wind was killed during the time of events just before robbs death. He gets popped, small Jon tosses a table in front. Catelyn begs for his life, Grey wind is killed, that's why he says Grey wind. And then his only other option is to jump inside his mom, and he does, and they cut the lackwits throat. And Catelyn claws her face because she can't handle him in there with her, so the Freys kill her and dump her in the water.

[John Suburbs]

Thats what I thought for awhile. I like it. But I wondered if maybe Grey Wind was killed during the time of events just before robbs death. He gets popped, small Jon tosses a table in front. Catelyn begs for his life, Grey wind is killed, that's why he says Grey wind. And then his only other option is to jump inside his mom, and he does, and they cut the lackwits throat. And Catelyn claws her face because she can't handle him in there with her, so the Freys kill her and dump her in the water.

Intriguing, but even Bran only seems to be able to warg into a human like Hodor. So Robb jumping into Catelyn would make him the most powerful skin changer of all time. And then why would Bloodraven be bothering with Bran?

[Poppa Chase]

Intriguing, but even Bran only seems to be able to warg into a human like Hodor. So Robb jumping into Catelyn would make him the most powerful skin changer of all time. And then why would Bloodraven be bothering with Bran?

He didn't do it successfully. And it's not said that wargs can't do it. Just that it is unforgivable. We've only ever seen Bran warg a simple man, but maybe he could warg someone who's not, without them going insane.

[Chalais]

I go with the idea that Jamie will save his skin by offering Lady Stoneheart the chance to wipe out the Freys for good, his cousin Daven is supposed to be having a wedding at the Twins. So Jamie brings Lady Stoneheart and her men as 'prisoners' along with his own troops to the celebrations, then when he presents LS to Lord Walder Frey he takes off her hood and undoes her bindings, the screams of terror begin even before she pulls out a dagger and stabs Walder Frey in the chest and the 'prisoners' reveal that they aren't really tied up and are secretly armed and the Second Red Wedding begins!

[denny717]

Varamyr six skins was unable to warg into another person, and he was a much more experienced warg then robb. Varamyrs chapter also said that warg humans was an evil and unforgivable act. He didn't say it was impossible. But it is extremely difficult.

[aryagonnakill#2]

All the stark kids are wargs per grrm, whether Robb warged greywind before the battle when he cut the horse lines or when Geywind found the goat path is debatable and I tend to think he experienced some level of involuntary warging and that it scared him and that had more to do with his distancing from Greywind then greywinds aggression, after all Catlyn didn't think his aggression was a problem.

Stoneheart sacking 3 castles and then taking WF seems to exclude every other plotlines in the books tho. I mean no Stannis in WF? No Rickon? Wheres Howland Reed and how could a few dozen, or even a few hundred people sack the Twins and Moat Cailin from the south?

Why are Jaime and Brienne searching for the Hound when Lem is with her and he knows he took the Hounds dead? And why is the BF going along with all this?

I think what you said will happen at Riverrun, we agree there.

[Poppa Chase]

All the stark kids are wargs per grrm, whether Robb warged greywind before the battle when he cut the horse lines or when Geywind found the goat path is debatable and I tend to think he experienced some level of involuntary warging and that it scared him and that had more to do with his distancing from Greywind then greywinds aggression, after all Catlyn didn't think his aggression was a problem.

Stoneheart sacking 3 castles and then taking WF seems to exclude every other plotlines in the books tho. I mean no Stannis in WF? No Rickon? Wheres Howland Reed and how could a few dozen, or even a few hundred people sack the Twins and Moat Cailin from the south?

Why are Jaime and Brienne searching for the Hound when Lem is with her and he knows he took the Hounds dead? And why is the BF going along with all this?

I think what you said will happen at Riverrun, we agree there.

Brienne said the Hound had Sansa, so I'm going with that they are looking for her and the hound. As to the other characters, that was my issue after the fact. I don't quite know, I just feel like that's where it's going. Maybe she stays in RR

[dannyk65]

Varamyr six skins was unable to warg into another person, and he was a much more experienced warg then robb. Varamyrs chapter also said that warg humans was an evil and unforgivable act. He didn't say it was impossible. But it is extremely difficult.

^^^^^^^^^ this ftw