Inigima Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Harassment of Anita Sarkeesian pre-dates #grammyderf as a "movement." They have picked up that ball and run with it, but it's not the genesis of the current situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daskool Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Let me rephrase and avoid your sidestep.Felicia Day's personal information was shared on a post where she said she was afraid of speaking out because her personal information might get shared. Not just because that's on the creepy spectrum anyway, but because she's had serious incidents before based on people finding out her personal information.She was even careful to say that it was only a handful of people who made her afraid, thus not saying that it was all GamerGaters. She said nothing about the True Start or True Cause of the movement, and simply mentioned that it was a sadness that these few horrible people are driving a wedge between groups of people who all love games. In response, the one thing she mentioned as a real fear came true.There. No mention of the word "dox" in any of its forms. Now, since it's simply "posting personal information to encourage harassment", can we get past that?Well to be exact someone googled her address and posted it. In the example I gave Leigh Alexander was given a private email and she posted it to her twitter followers and outright encouraged them to harass the dude. Both are bad but the fact that a prominent gaming journalist can act like that with no expectation of any comeback or condemnation from her peers speaks to the complete lack of even basic standards in gaming journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1918me Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well to be exact someone googled her address and posted it. What would be the point of posting her address other than to encourage harassment, especially given that she'd expressed concerns over such a thing occuring for that very reason? In the example I gave Leigh Alexander was given a private email and she posted it to her twitter followers and outright encouraged them to harass the dude. Both are bad but the fact that a prominent gaming journalist can act like that with no expectation of any comeback or condemnation from her peers speaks to the complete lack of even basic standards in gaming journalism. Encouraging harassment is never okay, yes. I don't think anyone on this board would disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well to be exact someone googled her address and posted it. In the example I gave Leigh Alexander was given a private email and she posted it to her twitter followers and outright encouraged them to harass the dude. Both are bad but the fact that a prominent gaming journalist can act like that with no expectation of any comeback or condemnation from her peers speaks to the complete lack of even basic standards in gaming journalism. So if this is about journalism, I presume GamerGaters have a list of desired reforms they'd like to see implemented, yes? Where can I find these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daskool Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 So if this is about journalism, I presume GamerGaters have a list of desired reforms they'd like to see implemented, yes? Where can I find these? www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/wiki/index Is pretty straight forward, to rid games journalism of the the three Cs, and the means to do it, consumer boycotts and pressuring large companies to withdraw sponsorship and advertizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Harassment of Anita Sarkeesian pre-dates #grammyderf as a "movement." They have picked up that ball and run with it, but it's not the genesis of the current situation. Well, it kinda is. In that the current #gameghazi is just an extension of the same reactionary troglodyte anger that underlies the attacks on Sarkeesian. Only now it's more widespread, with more troglodytes and more targets. #gameghazi is just a fig leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daskool Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 What would be the point of posting her address other than to encourage harassment, especially given that she'd expressed concerns over such a thing occuring for that very reason? Encouraging harassment is never okay, yes. I don't think anyone on this board would disagree. The thing to remember is if you share a certain ideological worldview then you can harass, doxx and bully to your hearts content and no one will confront you about your appalling behavior. Ms. Leigh is a VERY prominent journalist in gaming, and despite her numerous comments disparaging (among other things) black people, working class people, people junior to her and of course gamers, none of the journalists who're currently complaining vociferously about the harassing behavior coming from the GG side have said one fucking word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Agrippa Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I am not a gamer in anyway- used to play halo but I quit after 3. I sort of get what some of this is about but how did it jump from the media being corrupt to sexism? I am all for attacking the media- because they and I mean almost any American or Anglican news source tells one side of the story or does no investigation. I am going to assume gaming is as corrupt as every other entertainment- so exactly how did this turn into a thing that is unrelated- usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 none of the journalists who're currently complaining vociferously about the harassing behavior coming from the GG side have said one fucking wordSource? Also, daskool, isn't that essentially playing the victim there? I thought you were above such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Ok, I'll bite. I know how harassment harassment of ZQ has been connected to the start of Gamergate but I'm still mystified as to how you're asserting that it started with harassment of Anita because as far as I know there isn't even a correlation there let alone anything substantive beyond that. Basically Sarkeesian has faced attacks and harassment from gamers since her kickstarter at the latest. The attack on Quinn coincided with a new release of a feminist frequency video, mixing the attacks. And that whole mess was the final drop for many journalists with regards to the horrible sides of gamer culture, which has been obvious and prevalent for a long time. And that slate of the 'if this is gaming culture we should get rid of gamers' 'hey and more varied people are playing games now in many different ways anyway' articles that that produced led to the harrassers withdrawing to their base, and started 'gamersgate' trying to hide in a bigger mob. It is the same people, within the same subculture, with the same issues, and the same behavioural patterns. I am not a gamer in anyway- used to play halo but I quit after 3. I sort of get what some of this is about but how did it jump from the media being corrupt to sexism? I am all for attacking the media- because they and I mean almost any American or Anglican news source tells one side of the story or does no investigation. I am going to assume gaming is as corrupt as every other entertainment- so exactly how did this turn into a thing that is unrelated- usually. It was the other way around, from sexism to attacking media (for trying not to be as sexist as they used to be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I am not a gamer in anyway- used to play halo but I quit after 3. I sort of get what some of this is about but how did it jump from the media being corrupt to sexism? I am all for attacking the media- because they and I mean almost any American or Anglican news source tells one side of the story or does no investigation. I am going to assume gaming is as corrupt as every other entertainment- so exactly how did this turn into a thing that is unrelated- usually.They deny it now, but sexism and harassment is the origin of the whole thing. "Ethics in games journalism" is a fig leaf. Games journalism has problems, but generally the ones GGers go after don't exist or aren't actually problems because they have no concept if what "corruption" means. See this article: http://deadspin.com/the-future-of-the-culture-wars-is-here-and-its-gamerga-1646145844 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Can we use Sea Lions instead of gamergaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Agrippa Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Basically Sarkeesian has faced attacks and harassment from gamers since her kickstarter at the latest. The attack on Quinn coincided with a new release of a feminist frequency video, mixing the attacks. And that whole mess was the final drop for many journalists with regards to the horrible sides of gamer culture, which has been obvious and prevalent for a long time. And that slate of the 'if this is gaming culture we should get rid of gamers' 'hey and more varied people are playing games now in many different ways anyway' articles that that produced led to the harrassers withdrawing to their base, and started 'gamersgate' trying to hide in a bigger mob. It is the same people, within the same subculture, with the same issues, and the same behavioural patterns. It was the other way around, from sexism to attacking media (for trying not to be as sexist as they used to be). Really? Interesting. Your post tells me a lot. I am used to seeing slate jump the gun and fail at finding the source of the problem because their a little smarter then a dog. Still leagues ahead of cnn, fox, and MSNBC. Still, I suspect that the gaming model for these magizines and online web articles either have ad revenue or subscription based fees. Since subscribing to anything anymore is a pointless excrise for such a small fanbase my guess its ad based. Which means the big companies Microsoft, EA, Sony, and Nintendo probably buy most of that space. I suspect that they give games reviews based off of "the games themselves" instead of comparing them to other media in their particular genre. Which means that the grading system means nothing because it has nothing to anchor it. Getting to the sexism- disappointing and disgusting. You would figure for a population who should be trying to be more inclusive for the sake of competition. There is reason to doubt the console sales from Microsoft and Sony- both have used.... unusual accounting techniques before to claim better then actual sales. Where PC gamers no doubt will never go out of business because of the fact digital downloads and easy money but console gamers should be wary of the world. The market doesn't like what nintendo's doing and I am with the stock market on this one- the ceo is under performing and they are losing market share to a more competitive Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft is fine but sony is a recession away from joining the worry wagon. So it should be paramount for these gamers to try to bring in the population. That being said its just not on them. The companies are terrible- EA and I do believe the company who does the cod series have horrible planning. They are draining their customers of cash instead of trying to grow the population of consumers. Their business plans at best are mediocre to abysmal. Mobile games are excellent money makers but I have a feeling that Google and apple probably take a good portion of the revenue of those games. Does anyone know who gets the ad money from those? Before you ask why its the gamers job to bring people in- because that's how the comic people did it. They progressively changed the formula and brought it to the big screen for family fun. Then the companies tried and tried again to make an adaption that worked for every consumer. Gamer's might beable to do the same thing and protect what they love. To Sum it up- This is bad for business for everyone. Gamers should do what the republicans and democrats do- talk about it behind closed doors (or forums if you will) instead of running a rampage on internet forums that are public and can be seen by everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Really? Interesting. Your post tells me a lot. I am used to seeing slate jump the gun and fail at finding the source of the problem because their a little smarter then a dog. Still leagues ahead of cnn, fox, and MSNBC. Still, I suspect that the gaming model for these magizines and online web articles either have ad revenue or subscription based fees. Since subscribing to anything anymore is a pointless excrise for such a small fanbase my guess its ad based. Which means the big companies Microsoft, EA, Sony, and Nintendo probably buy most of that space. I suspect that they give games reviews based off of "the games themselves" instead of comparing them to other media in their particular genre. Which means that the grading system means nothing because it has nothing to anchor it. This is actually the part of corruption in (game) journalism and criticism that is more or less completely ignored by gamergate community. In its place they care about small independent developers getting money from journalists in kickstarter and patreon. ... Before you ask why its the gamers job to bring people in- because that's how the comic people did it. They progressively changed the formula and brought it to the big screen for family fun. Then the companies tried and tried again to make an adaption that worked for every consumer. Gamer's might beable to do the same thing and protect what they love. ... Which is what gamers are doing, which is what the games industry is doing. And just as in comics they get attacked by the people that liked the small community they were used to and the culture they could dominate. The fake geek girl argument is used against women in the games world as well as in the comic world. eta: Can we use Sea Lions instead of gamergaters? That would bring much joy to the alternate history communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Some updates.That shitbag technically-a-lawyer Mike Cernovich (@playdangerously) used his LexisNexis subscription to get Zoe Quinn's protection order court docs and gave them to Return of Kings, which you may remember is a gross site that doesn't even pretend not to hate women.Cernovich now claims to have sent a PI to follow Quinn around. Quinn is, understandably, upset that there is literally no place left for her to go to not be harassed. Note that she has been couch surfing in order to be less findable and consequently more difficult to harass or attack in person. Cernovich is attempting to take even that away from her. This is the same Cernovich who claims to "hate bullies."Take a good look, boogledarters. This is your "movement." Stalking a homeless woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Take a good look, boogledarters. This is your "movement." Stalking a homeless woman. (/begin GamerGate mode) I resolutely condemn this harassment of anyone. People doing it should be prosecuted. That said, as daskool might point out, if Quinn doesn't want to be found, she would have done a better job hiding herself. Why didn't she use a friend's address in all her legal filings? And if she were to just ignore the harassers, she wouldn't be getting all this attention. Look at her presence in social media - the fact that she's even speaking in public is sign that she doesn't really want to be just left alone. (/end GamerGate mode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/wiki/index Is pretty straight forward, to rid games journalism of the the three Cs, and the means to do it, consumer boycotts and pressuring large companies to withdraw sponsorship and advertizing. Edited: You know what? This the way GamerGaters get traction: by presenting a superficially plausible case which bears little resemblance to reality. I'm not getting sucked in. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 This is far more internet culture than it is video game culture.This same story could exist without gaming or video games, it wouldn't exist without internet culture(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Some updates.That shitbag technically-a-lawyer Mike Cernovich (@playdangerously) used his LexisNexis subscription to get Zoe Quinn's protection order court docs and gave them to Return of Kings, which you may remember is a gross site that doesn't even pretend not to hate women.Cernovich now claims to have sent a PI to follow Quinn around. Quinn is, understandably, upset that there is literally no place left for her to go to not be harassed. Note that she has been couch surfing in order to be less findable and consequently more difficult to harass or attack in person. Cernovich is attempting to take even that away from her. This is the same Cernovich who claims to "hate bullies."Take a good look, boogledarters. This is your "movement." Stalking a homeless woman. Ahh yes, Mike Cernovich. Classy Motherfucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Agrippa Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 This is actually the part of corruption in (game) journalism and criticism that is more or less completely ignored by gamergate community. In its place they care about small independent developers getting money from journalists in kickstarter and patreon. Fighting such corruption is impossible. It exists everywhere. Corporations and government agencies do it all the time. Is it right? Nope but we don't have stannis's we have littlefingers and varys running our world. Which is what gamers are doing, which is what the games industry is doing. And just as in comics they get attacked by the people that liked the small community they were used to and the culture they could dominate. The fake geek girl argument is used against women in the games world as well as in the comic world. I will take your word for it. I never understood that concept. A small town vs a city I guess.eta:That would bring much joy to the alternate history communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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