Is littlefinger Robert Arryn's real father

[Lord Annaly]

Anyone remember which family Sweetrobin takes after? I can't recall and I've been assuming he looks like an Arryn.

His only description is that he has brown hair which does not point one way or the other.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

His only description is that he has brown hair which does not point one way or the other.

Then the mystery remains...

[Jaak]

Question: why does anyone assume that LF would know the kid was his?

Let's say he slept with Lysa one time while she was married to Jon, just to get her to quit whining and begging and being reckless. That would not guarantee a pregnancy by any means. LF would know that. He's in the brothel business for crying out loud. He will have a basic understanding of the biology involved.

Oh, sure. Petyr could not be sure that he was the father. But he also could not be sure that he wasn´t, if there was a possibility that he might be.

Lysa goes on about the son she would have given Petyr, but who was killed. If there was any remote chance Sweetrobin might be Petyr´s, Lysa would have emphasized that. The only explanation for her silence in the matter is that there was no remote chance Sweetrobin could have been Petyr´s, and Petyr knew it, and Lysa knew Petyr knew. For such obvious reasons like Petyr had not committed adultery with her at any time, or never at the time period relevant to Sweetrobin.

[Hos the Hostage]

I got to thinking. John Arryn was murdered after he'd begun looking into family trees and genealogy of the great families. We know Lysa killed poisoned John Arryn at littlefingers command. What if he was killed because littlefinger and lysa were afraid he was looking into his own family tree? Sweet robin being a sickly child unlike his strong father. They may have thought he had begun to suspect Robert Arryn was not his child, and is actually little finger's, so they had to kill him to protect the secret. The 'seed is strong', referring to his own and sweetrobin obviously not being. We know that in actuality John Arryn was looking into the Kings bastards, but what if for once littlefinger was wrong. Just saying.

Jon Arryn, of all people, should not say that the seed is strong meaning his own seed. We know nothing about Arryn looks.

[Hos the Hostage]

Also, I think LF never slept with Lysa or had a bastard(after Lysa was married). Some caresses, maybe, but he might have told Lysa that he will only give her trueborn children from now, and have her an incentive to kill Jon Arryn.

[MyLittleFinger]

Jon Arryn's seed was anything but strong. It's why his nephew was his heir and not a son. Medieval style societies blame all infertility etc. on the women. With three wives he manages one kid that lives through birth and it's a weak sickly child. It's his. It's proof that even the smartest/greatest/strongest men and women are slaves to genetics.

[Mithras]

I don't think LF was foolish enough to bang Lysa in KL. Varys sees. Varys knows. The way Lysa wanted to "scream" in their wedding night makes me think that it was the first time since LF was dumped from Riverrun and that is why Lysa was true to her word.

[KingofSothoryos]

I don't think we have enough information to make a definite statement either way. I do think Sweet Robin is LF's child, but I don't think anyone is for certain about it, just like I would assume medieval paternity was always a question when two men slept with the same woman. I do understand that Lysa's deranged love would more than likely seize on any hope that LF and her made a child together, but I also think that she could have some perverse need to mother the next Lord of the Eyrie to maintain her own public mask.

As for LF's relationship with Sweet Robin, I believe LF is sociopathic enough to know there is a chance that Sweet Robin is his son, but be bitter enough at the understanding that he could never claim him as his (another thing that he was not born high enough to do like marry Cat) and thus have nothing but contempt for the boy. That is the only thing that LF loves, elbowing his way into the game of thrones and surpassing and exposing all those who were born higher than he was because that is what he blames for not being able to marry Cat. Sweet Robin may remind him in an exaggerated fashion of the frail weak boy he might have been if he was born high like Sweet Robin and didn't have to develop his wits and charms. As Sweet Robin is the worse of the nobility system, he is hereditarily weak and has been coddled and sheltered his entire life, whereas men like LF have had to better in order to carve out a name for themselves.

[Natalia Borgia]

Nice idea! Considering how LF treats his "daughter" Alaynne v. how he treats Sweet Robin it's easy to assume he's not his father.

I think he is the bastard of LF. Catelyn thinks "how could this weak child be Jon Arryn's son?" Jon Arryn was this big tough guy in his youth and his son is still nursing and screaming and very small?

It doesn't help LF to cash in though-by claiming SR he loses the Vale.

[stateofdissipation]

Considering that Lysa was forced to abort a child in her youth, it may have damaged her reproductive system permanently. That could explain Robert's sickly nature as opposed to illegitimacy.

Hoster does make Lysa drink moon tea.

but

Lysa has the recipe for moon tea memorized.

Admittedly the abortion played a role in Lysa's miscarriages. The role could be physical or psychological.

[Ser Quork]

Question: why does anyone assume that LF would know the kid was his?

Let's say he slept with Lysa one time while she was married to Jon, just to get her to quit whining and begging and being reckless. That would not guarantee a pregnancy by any means. LF would know that. He's in the brothel business for crying out loud. He will have a basic understanding of the biology involved.

Anyone remember which family Sweetrobin takes after? I can't recall and I've been assuming he looks like an Arryn.

If you've read the Alayne chapter and the comparison there, it appears he doesn't resemble either Jon Arryn (who had fair hair) or Lysa. :dunno:

[GuardstheRealmsofMen]

Interesting theory. Honestly, I agree Littlefinger might not know (or care) one way or the other, similar to the theory that Littlefinger doesn't know he slept with Lysa not Cat the night of the feast.

We will probably never have a definitive answer about Sweetrobin's father, since no one could really be 100% certain except Lysa (and only if she and Littlefinger had never slept together in the appropriate time frame, as some have suggested.)

[ciliate]

I used to wonder but the naysayers have convinced me!

The evidence presented by Lord Anally I find particularly persuasive.

The abortion was Petyr's, yes, and they had an affair at KL, yes. But that doesn't mean they were having sex or made any babies. The "I have waited so long . . . I want to share your bed tonight," bit supports this. The "silence and whispers" could easily refer to a sexless love affair - secret meetings and messages, whispered sweet nothings, promises and adoration. Lysa seems to really believe Petyr loves her back - he must have done something to cause this.

I also think it would be very important to them both that she have a legitimate heir to the Vale. Lysa may be paranoid, delusional and wickedly selfish but she isn't exactly stupid. She has a shrewdness, a certain "low cunning" :) I think she would be very, very protective of Jon Arryn's heir. Not to mention he's her only child. I doubt Petyr would object to the creation of an Arryn heir he could access and manipulate!

Sudden tinfoil moment. . . I've lately been obsessed by the entire Stokeworth gang (do asearchoficeandfire search and be amazed at the amount of references!). I am convinced that they are in some way helping / involved with LF. . . could it be that all those visits to feast with Lady Tanda were a cover to meet with Lysa at Stokeworth? Not that I think there will be any evidence of this!! But I kinda like it.