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Jaak

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  1. Well, what should be known? World of Ice and Fire does not really make sense here. Yes, Westeros was illiterate for 2000 years after Long Night. But when Andal septons and Citadel maesters first came to write down histories which were so far oral, what should they have heard? Every House would ave had their own history. Founding, wars, alliances... But if they were concerned with themselves, and forgot and conflated much of their own history, they could have forgotten the names of the neighbours they fought and allied with. Wars happened to each House at different times. There were three events that affected all Westeros. Andal conquest (whether succumbing or repelling), initial settlement of First Men, and Long Night. Long Night should have happened to all at the same time. The details of how each House fared at Long Night, or that the House has no specific tradition of Long Night, because the House was founded from obscurity sometime in two millennia between Long Night and Andal conquest, should have been an obvious thing to systematically record in a geographic review of history!
  2. Jaak

    Did Meleys fight on the Stepstones?

    They had Vhagar, too. Yes, Laena was a teenager. But Vhagar was not. A little rider on a big dragon may have been safer than a big rider on a small dragon. What´s odd, though, is how Daemon struggled and failed. What would have happened if Vhagar, Meleys and Caraxes had simply put the city of Tyrosh to dragonfire? Tyrosh is no Dorne. (And neither is Braavos). The Free Cities are simply not rooted in countryside the way Westerosi nobles are. Burn down Pentos inside the walls, and Magister Illyrio is not accustomed to hunt and ride the countryside of his estates, or be regarded by his smallfolk as their protector. As Tyrosh is a large city on a modest sized island, it cannot be fed by produce of the island either. Tyrosh must depend on food grown on mainland and ferried to the isle. Boats are wooden, and burn. 3 or 4 dragons (Seasmoke/Laenor for fourth) could quite decently patrol and blockade the waters separating Tyrosh from mainland and prevent Tyroshi from either getting any food or fleeing the island for food on mainland. Oh, and block Tyroshi fleet from attacking the other Stepstones either.
  3. Jaak

    Bastards in Essos

    About bastards: how about Otherys family? They clearly inherited the surname of the mother. Not of a suspected father, and not a "bastard surname". In Westeros, "filius nullius" is the rule, and "mater semper certa est", as with Mormont bearstiality, the exception. How about Essos? When the mother has a surname, do bastards get it?
  4. Jaak

    Crownlands Makes No Sense

    How much did Reach operate as a community regardless of the person occupying Highgarden? On the Riverlands side, what made no sense to me was leaving Harrenhal in Riverlands. Qoherys was his own Valyrian master-at-arms. Why make the command line King´s Landing-Riverrun-back to Harrenhal AND subordinate Qoherys to the new defector Tully? Just keeping Harrenhal demesne in Crownlands would have been the easy option.
  5. Jaak

    Bastards in Essos

    We don't get details of what "concubine" means. Does child of a "concubine" inherit equally with child of a "wife", not at all, or something but not equally? Lynesse Hightower had no children in her five years of marriage to Jorah. If she did/does bear children to Tregar Ormollen, how would Lynesse's children be treated, compared to Tregar's children by his wife?
  6. Jaak

    Bastards in Essos

    Not in all societies... Wives won´t. More importantly, neither will the fathers and brethren of wives. But there will be husbands who want to promote their bastards. And who succeeds depends on society. Medieval Europe from 11th century had normative monogamy, lifelong with a strict ban on divorce, and bastards did not have inheritance rights. Compare with their contemporaries right across border in Islamic world, that had polygamy and easy divorce. The Norse before the imposition of European marriage laws in 13th century or so had clearly distinguished single principal wife, but bastards had broad inheritance rights. So, there is nothing implausible about Essos having a very different attitude to bastards. It´s more than theoretical. In societies where freeing slaves is at all common, the children of the master are one of the first groups to consider. Is there any special legal discrimination against bastard freedmen over and above discrimination against bastards born of freeborn mothers? Vogorro´s Whore had no children to mention, either by Vogorro or afterwards. If she had borne children to Vogorro, would the Old Blood of Volantis have declared Vogorro´s children freedmen as well, and forced them out of Black Walls, or would they have accepted that they were born of mother who was by then free, and allowed Vogorro´s Whore to stay inside Black Walls as a household member of her children?
  7. Jaak

    Bastards in Essos

    Not obviously. The attitude to marriage varies. So the likely reasons why the parents did not get married also vary. As does the attitude to babies. We are told that the old religion of Sisters permitted infanticide, and Seven forbid it. In a society where full born infanticide is legal, bastards are among the obvious candidates.
  8. Jaak

    Bastards in Essos

    We are not actually told Westeros´ rulers even make that claim. Westeros has tradition of property staying in same houses for millennia, through hundreds of generations. Rulers can seize lands for rebellion and give them to favourites, but this is so rare that after millennia, most land has not changed hands that way. What prevents ruler himself from bequeathing his throne to his bastard is a strong tradition of legitimate inheritance. In Essos? Volantis did not prevent a freed slave from inheriting her husband´s palace inside the Black Wall. They forbade her to keep it, but did allow her to sell it and keep the sale price. If a Volantene noble wanted to leave his or her property to a child born of a free (and noble and Volantene!) mother, just out of wedlock, would Volantene law object? Nymeria Sand is a bastard born of a Volantene noblewoman. Is she an "outlander"? Or is she a Volantene citizen by birth, entitled to walk in the gates of Black Walls without needing a specific invitation of anyone, even her mother? If Nymeria owns property in Volantis, can she vote? (Does she vote Tiger or Elephant)? Does Nymeria have "direct Valyrian descent", and is she legally eligible to be elected as Triarch? They are not tattooed inside the womb. At which age are slave babies usually tattooed? If a master decides to manumit a baby and not tattoo it... how long does the master have to decide it? Does delaying to tattoo a baby´s face to make up a decision whether to free it or keep it as a slave operate as freeing it by default?
  9. Jaak

    Shaera in Aerys´ rule

    Yes. But babies, especially baby girls and stillbirths/miscarriages of unmentioned sex, do even less of importance. Yandel takes care to date all 8 miscarriages, stillbirths and deaths in infancy between Rhaegaer and Viserys, and name the 4 that had names. By comparison, death of the mother of Rhaella and Aerys should have been a relevant event to report and date. After all, unlike the infants, Shaera could have expressed her opinion about the marital troubles of her children, and be heard. (Even Rhaegaer... he was 11 when Aerys confined Rhaella. Was the boy allowed to get in and out of his mother´s prison?)
  10. Jaak

    Shaera in Aerys´ rule

    Hm? You are underestimating teen girls. Shaera/Jaehaerys like Cersei/Jaime, if they had had family tradition and parents willing to yield to their children even though the parents wanted to change it? Jaime was amiable, but at least healthy and strong champion. Jaehaerys was not. But it is Jaehaerys, not Shaera, to whom Aerys/Rhaella marriage is attributed. Compared to Joffrey, Aerys was decent into his twenties. His crazy ideas were benign then. Ser Barristan knew the woman. He was at court early enough to attend Rhaella´s wedding, and note her lack of fondness. Shaera outlived that, and Summerhall.
  11. Jaak

    Shaera in Aerys´ rule

    Maester Yandel took care to date 8 miscarriages, childbirths and babyhood deaths that Rhaella had between Rhaegaer and Viserys, and name the 4 who got names. While the general series of tragedies was straining Aerys´ sanity and his marriage, dating the life of his mother would have been far more relevant than any single baby. We know that in the matter of Rhaella´s marriage, it was Jaehaerys´ idea, on advice of woods witch - Rhaella objected (but could do little), and so did Egg (he as the King could have done something, but he declined to overrule his heir). What did Shaera think about the marriage?
  12. What was Queen Shaera doing? She had been a young mother. 18 when she had Aerys and 19-20 when she had Rhaella. She was just 33 when she became a grandmother, and a Queen. She is attested as alive after Summerhall, because she stayed home with Jaeharys when their army sailed for Ninepenny Wars. She was 36 when she became a widow. At first Aerys was a decent boy except for crazy ideas he soon lost interest in (wildings, Braavos). But the matters degraded from 270. While Rhaella had never been fond of her big brother in that way, from 270 Aerys accused the then 25 year old Rhaella of cheating him and confined her under guard. What would the 44 year old Shaera have said about Aerys treating her daughter that way? Jaime and Jonothor were sworn to protect Rhaella, too, but not from Aerys. They were sworn to obey the King and keep his secrets. While the then just 57 year old Queen Shaera was under no vows to not upbraid his 39 year old boy.
  13. Jaak

    If Dunk was a member of Aerys' kingsguard?

    Ser Harlan Grandison lived to 80 and died in his sleep vacating the spot for Jaime. When ser Barristan Selmy had saved Aerys´ life at Duskendale, he asked Aerys to spare Dontos Hollard. Aerys was embarrassed to refuse - he´d have preferred to execute Dontos as well, but did give way to his saver. Aerys did execute other Hollard and Darklyn children, though. If 86 year old Lord Commander Duncan who personally saved Aerys back at Summerhall was present at Duskendale, how much influence would he have had?
  14. Jaak

    Did Tywin have to kill Rheagar's children

    Words are wind, but so are symbolic actions like wrapping the corpses in Lannister cloaks. Both Tywin and Robert are avowing responsibility after the fact. Despite his palpable relief, Robert might have chosen to distance himself from the murders by upbraiding Gregor and Amory for killing the family rather than take them alive, and yet make no actual punishment for themselves. For example, he forced Jaime to kneel to ask for pardon, and Jaime got it. Robert might have made a point of ordering Gregor and Amory to kneel and ask for pardon, and get it, while Jaime is told to remain standing because he has nothing to ask pardon for in killing a known adult enemy of Robert. Robert chose not to do so.
  15. That Lyanna was soiled goods was known from the outset of the rebellion. Jon Arryn himself accepted Lysa as soiled goods, as Hoster´s price for alliance. Messy breakup between Eddard and Robert because of Lyanna was a danger Jon might have been worried about. Like, Eddard recovers Lyanna, Robert does not want her back because soiled goods, Eddard backs his sister over her faithless groom. Robert believed Lyanna loved him and was abducted without her consent. Westeros believed the same, such as any witnesses of the abduction on the road by 7 men. Robert would not have liked to hear the opposite, and anyone who suspected otherwise might have liked an opportunity to suppress evidence. But sex is known to cause pregnancies sometimes - even if nonconsensual. If Robert was outright asked, before Sack, and in front of Jon and Eddard "What should be done if Lyanna is expecting Rhaegaer´s bastard?" - what would Robert have said?
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