Boarsbane Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah for all the praise he gets, he's really done jack shit to deserve anything but the basic acknowledgement that he knows commanding. He beat Robert Baratheon at his own game, something no one else ever managed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 The guy who burns people alive as a form of execution is humane? I said showed forms of humanity, not that he was all sunshine and goodness. I.e, caring to keep both Patchface and Maester Cressen in his household, trying to heal proud wing the eagle, hesitating greatly to burn Edric Storm, but only consenting because he believed it was the only way he could defeat the white walkers and the impending "long night" and cares about giving out true justice to people no matter there statin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 He beat Robert Baratheon at his own game, something no one else ever managed Drinking and whoring? Those were the only games Robert knew... I said showed forms of humanity, not that he was all sunshine and goodness. I.e, caring to keep both Patchface and Maester Cressen in his household, trying to heal proud wing the eagle, hesitating greatly to burn Edric Storm, but only consenting because he believed it was the only way he could defeat the white walkers and the impending "long night" and cares about giving out true justice to people no matter there statin I definitely think Stannis is better than Randyll but that is not true. He considered it to win the throne back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Drinking and whoring? Those were the only games Robert knew...He also knew a thing or two about waging war, just ask the Targaryens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 He also knew a thing or two about waging war, just ask the Targaryens Which Targaryens? Some have a much better record than Robert, both on and off the battle field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMatchedEyes Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have no sympathy for him. Yes, I totally think he would have killed him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 He beat Robert Baratheon at his own game, something no one else ever managed Another way to look at it is that Randyll let Robert escape. Robert wasn't exactly a genius general. He was a great leader but Jon and Ned and Hoster were probably the brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Which Targaryens? Some have a much better record than Robert, both on and off the battle field. Rhaegar, the one he beat to win his crown. I understand you dislike him but how can you deny a man who won 3 battles knows about fighting wars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Another way to look at it is that Randyll let Robert escape. Robert wasn't exactly a genius general. He was a great leader but Jon and Ned and Hoster were probably the brains. He won 3 battles in a day so I don't see why you'd think that. Robert clearly wasn't much of a scholar but he knew his warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Rhaegar, the one he beat to win his crown. I understand you dislike him but how can you deny a man who won 3 battles knows about fighting wars? I never denied it. Another way to look at it is that he only won three battles. Others before him have done way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 I definitely think Stannis is better than Randyll but that is not true. He considered it to win the throne back. To win the throne, to stop the white walkers. He kept saying duty calls etc " What is one boy to all the boys of Westeros etc?" It was definitely implied that the threat of great apocalypse if he chose not to finally drove him to ti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I never denied it. Another way to look at it is that he only won three battles. Others before him have done way better. Not many have and none that I recall won 3 in a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I definitely think Stannis is better than Randyll but that is not true. He considered it to win the throne back. No, taking the throne was definitely part of it, but the end of the world was a significant factor that you can't ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 He won 3 battles in a day so I don't see why you'd think that. Robert clearly wasn't much of a scholar but he knew his warfare. He defeated 3 smaller armies in detail. It didn't take a military genius, and it appears his foes were not the brightest either. Sure he knew his warfare. He was a warrior, and he was a great one, and a great leader. But he was never the intellectual type. It doesn't appear to me to be in his nature from what I read of him. Credit to Randyll Tarly for not being an idiot, but he didn't exactly face off against the cream of the crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerHaHa Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think the whole Sam/Randyll situation is a bit of a paradox, something GRRM is fantastic at creating. In the defense of Randyll Tarly, Sam obviously had some of that "warrior spirit" in there somewhere the whole time, what with the killing of the Walker, as well as learning archery, and throwing a beating on a fellow brother of the NW in Essos. I think that Randyll just didn't find the right motivation. Somebody earlier in the thread brought up Tommen as an example, and I think there are many parallels to be drawn here. Tommen was a soft, fat, and weak youngster, whom Bran easily beat, and the way it was written, it seemed Tommen would be happier doing "Sam" type activities such as playing with puppies and singing with the girls. However a short time later, he's very interested in learning the martial ways of the time, to the point of fighting with his mother of whom he's likely terrified of. Why? The answer IMO is finding the proper strings to pluck, and buttons to push. Loras Tyrell was able to do this, and it's very subtly and particularly well written parts of the books, showing how Tommen went from being somewhat docile, to being almost aggressive regarding wanting to learn all the things Randyll wanted for his first born son as well. This is my point I suppose, that where Randyll truly failed, was in fact just failing to find those strings and buttons within Sam, and not being patient, intelligent, and even prescient enough to succeed in this department. Again, Sam had it in there somewhere the entire time, at least enough of it to get on the track he's on now, which likely would have been enough for his father. I think it boils down to Randyll just not finding the "guy" that Sam would have responded to - all the goofy, strange, foreign, and even cruel methods obviously did more harm than good, and he should have identified that, and stuck with what he knew - good local talent. Somebody kind, patient, and intelligent as a private teacher - I think Garland would have been a good choice in such circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 No, taking the throne was definitely part of it, but the end of the world was a significant factor that you can't ignore. Sure I can. He didn't say shit about the Others until he got to the Wall, nor did Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Sure I can. He didn't say shit about the Others until he got to the Wall, nor did Mel. It doesn't count that he basically mentioned the Long Night? Which the Others are clearly part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Sure I can. He didn't say shit about the Others until he got to the Wall, nor did Mel. No, taking the throne was definitely part of it, but the end of the world was a significant factor that you can't ignore. That they didn't know the specifics is irrelevant (if they indeed didn't), they clearly understood that there was some incredible threat approaching that needed to be stopped, as I mentioned before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaynsa Starne Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I can see why Randyll found Sam sort of unbearable; I know I did in AGOT. But threatening to kill your own kid? He's obviously the absolute worst. I think Sam mostly needed an outlet for his strengths. Once his talents were utilized for practical purposes, he starting growing quite a bit. I think having a support group of peers also set an attainable standard for him: he didn't have to be the best warrior evar, but he could make himself useful. Randyll was an idiot for not seeing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 He defeated 3 smaller armies in detail. It didn't take a military genius, and it appears his foes were not the brightest either. Sure he knew his warfare. He was a warrior, and he was a great one, and a great leader. But he was never the intellectual type. It doesn't appear to me to be in his nature from what I read of him. Credit to Randyll Tarly for not being an idiot, but he didn't exactly face off against the cream of the crop. Where does it say they were smaller? Maybe it didn't take a military genius but Robert has proven himself an able commander. You don't have to be an intellectual to be a good commander. I disagree, he did face the cream of the crop, Robert may well have been the greatest commander of his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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