The Parallel Journey of Daenerys Targaryen & ... Part I

[MoIaF]

Thank you for another interesting analysis, MoIaF. Very provocative.

Reading some of the passages you singled out, one of the things that struck me is that the burning of the Undying could be compared to the burning of a library full of books and scrolls. The fire wasn't described to us in much detail at all, but the burning of the Winterfell library is strongly linked to Bran because the fire was started to draw people's attention away from the comatose boy so the Catspaw assassin can kill him.

A couple of passages in quotes you selected may underscore the similarities between the burning library and the burning HotU:

Bran is strongly associated with stories, although the stories he loves are from an oral tradition handed down by Old Nan. What little we know about the Winterfell library comes from time Tyrion spends there during the royal visit:

So we know that the library was a steep tower, but little else. While there are no references (that I can recall) to Bran spending time in the library, before his injury he is associated with climbing walls and towers around Winterfell. (For what it's worth, Bran uses gargoyles for handholds when he climbs the walls, and Tyrion is compared to a gargoyle in a couple places throughout ASOIAF.) By contrast, the House of the Undying is specifically described as having no tower:

This is external information from the real world so it may be unrelated, but it could help to tie the notion of a library to the strong tree symbolism you identified in both stories: scholars who study the origin of Indo-European languages have identified an area near the Black Sea (I believe) where a common root language started to form before humans spread out across the Eurasian continent. They have identified words that must have been used in that early proto-language by identifying similar words that have evolved in different languages of Europe and India. One example is the word "hound" which is found in slightly varied forms through a number of languages, allowing inferences that there were domesticated dogs living in this early human settlement. They have also inferred that beech trees were used somehow to record written information because the words for book and beech are closely related in many of the subsequent languages that stem from the common source.

Back to ASOIAF: It seems like GRRM is deliberately juxtaposing these two "libraries" but the point is not entirely clear to me. I don't know what it means, for instance, that the Winterfell library is a steep tower and the HotU is flat. Bran's direwolf saves him by ignoring the fire at the Winterfell library, while Dany's dragon saves her by starting the fire at the HotU. Dany sees a nasty, blue heart beating in the HotU, and Bran is about to be linked for life to a heart tree that connects to the past, present and future of all of Westeros. (Another thought: How does the stallion heart that Dany ate when she was pregnant connect to this heart motif?)

When Robb, looking out the window of Bran's room, tells Catelyn that the library tower is on fire, Catelyn seems relatively unconcerned about the loss of the collected works and is mostly just relieved that the tower is far away from Bran's chamber so he is not endangered by the fire. She is 100% wrong to feel relief, of course, because the fire in the library was (we are led to believe) deliberately set in order to clear a path for Bran's would-be murderer. I wonder whether we can see the lesson for Catelyn (and the reader) in the connection between the library fire and Bran's peril as similar to her awakening to the importance of the direwolves in keeping her children safe? Catelyn initially dislikes the wolves but completely changes her mind after Summer kills the Catspaw, saving Bran (and Catelyn).

If the library fire is "bad" for Bran, is the fire in the House of the Undying similarly "bad" for Dany? It seems like her dragon is saving her from the creepy clutches of the Undying when it sparks the inferno. But Dany was also advised to "write" the words of the Undying "upon (her) heart" - underscoring the importance of remembering a story or instructions, much as a book or written work would record a story in a way that would make it immortal. Or like Old Nan making sure that the Stark children were schooled in the old stories of the Children of the Forest. In addition to being the Last Dragon, maybe Dany is the Last Book of the civilization represented by the Undying.

I was also intrigued by your mention of the contrasting colors associated with Bran and Dany. The Trident River and its three branches - the Green Fork, Blue Fork and Red Fork - are important symbols in the series. I wonder whether Dany and Bran's red and blue associations (Bran also has a lot of green in his story) signal that the two characters will come together at some point, just as the tributaries of the river also join to form one major river?

Thank you so much! I wrote the first part of the essay and Queen Alysanne wrote the second.

It's an interesting connection you make thee with Drogon burning of the Undying and the burning of the Winterfell Library. I'm not sure what the connection would mean. As you say the burning of the Winterfell library was done as a subterfuge in order to disguise the true intent which was the attack on Bran. In Dany's case however, the Undying outright trick and begin to attack her and the burning is done in order to save her life. So, the parallel there can be that for one it meant a thread of death but for the other it meant survival.

The interesting thing and something we'll be discussing in our last essay is that both were saved by the animal familiar. Summer came to Bran's rescue when he was incapacitated and unable to defend himself while on the other hand Drogon came to Dany's rescue while she herself was incapacitated as she was enchanted by the Undying. Summer killed the man attacking Bran, Drogon killed the Undying who were attacking Dany.

We've discusse a lot in the Dany re-read that fire is both destruction and creation. A lot of people in the fandom see fire as a negative but as we know that;s not always the case. Fire can be used for many good things (it's one of the integral elements of life, without fire human wouldn't have survived) and as we see with Dany, had Drogon not burned the Undying she would surely be dead.

This is super interesting, I really like this comparison. Thanks for brining it up.

[BearQueen87]

Of Dragons and Wolves

The Parallel Journey of Daenerys Targaryen and Bran Stark

Essay II: The Place of Magic and Mythology

By: MoIaF & Queen Alysanne

Excellent work once again MOIAF and Queen Alysanne!

Both the House of the Undying and the Children’s cave have a lot of mystery to them, there is a lot we don’t understand, however, we have learned a bit from both these places. Both of these locations give us a brief insight into the more mythological and fantastical aspects of ASOIAF. Both the Undying and the Children are in the twilight of their existence, the days where the Children roamed the earth and the Undying lived in amazing spender have long gone, now all that remain is the shadow of those times.

It's interesting that you bring this up. Qarth likes to fancy itself as the oldest and important city in the world, but from the WB we see that it's not. It's a great city, but certainly not the cradle of civilization it likes to pretend to be. We are also given startlingly little about the Warlocks of Qarth. We know they are "undying" but for how long? What were they like pre-their now static condition? Do the Warlocks and the Children have any connection to each other? Are the Warlocks maybe a branch of rogue COTF? We don't know for certain but it seems like the COTF did exist in Essos. Perhaps as time passed, the COTF of Essos and the COTF of Westeros took up different "hobbies" shall we say. Also, the Undying say that they have been waiting for 1000 years for her but what about before then? The Long Night was 6000-8000 years ago.

The Children’s cave has been around a long time, thousands of Children have lived and died there and only their bones remain. We hear from Leaf that the vast network of caves is so large that there are still places left unexplored. The Children have cast spells around the entrance of the cave to protect them from the Wights. There is also a lot of darkness in the caves, the light only lasts as long as the fire burns.

Comparing the two places we have a palace a “manmade” structure as the home of the Undying while on the other hand the Children’s cave is a natural structure of the earth which the Children inhabit. While the HOTU is decaying away the only signs that we have of the Children living in the caves are the bones of all those that came before them.

Both the HOTU and the Cave have an aversion to light and fire. At one point, the torches in the HOTU begin going out and Dany is almost in total darkness; moreover, what drives back the Undying and keeps them from eating Dany alive is Drogon's fire. Drogon's fire/Dany's life force drives back the darkness; it is stronger than the dark (something the Others are notorious for bringing, at least in myth). But the Cave has no such light giver. If the fire goes out, that's it. So people adapt to the darkness. Bran is told that he can thrive in the darkness. (I am worried for Bran).

“a grove of black -barked trees whose inky blue leaves made the stuff of the sorcerous drink the Qartheen called shade of the evening”

The description of these trees is almost the exact opposite of the white bark, red leaves of the weirwood trees. Most likely these two trees are counterparts of one another. While Dany is given shades of the evening to drink, Bran is given a weirwood paste made of the bark and leaves of the tree. Let’s look at how each one of the describes the taste:

For some unknown reason one time, over in RLJ, Kingmonkey and I got talking about this as the anti-weirwood. Black and white obviously two sides of the same coin. Red and Blue are more complicated though because they aren't contrasting colors. Red's contrasting color is actually green. Red and blue are both primary colors (and Bran and Dany are both primary characters). Or maybe I'm reading too deeply into color theory.

Notice how the taste is initially bitter or spoiled but as they continue to drink the flavor improves becoming sweeter and tasting like honey and then the taste transforms in to the things they loved or the memories that brought them happiness, Drogo’s seed or the last kiss his mother gave him.

We know that the singers and their memories "fuel" the trees and here we have a drink that awakens memories. Yeah, I think this stuff is Soylent Green. (not people perhaps, but their blood which ties back to memories)

While exploring the caves inside Hodor, Bran stubbles upon a chamber:

“He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak.”

And when Dany finally enters the chamber of the Undying she sees:

“A long stone table filled this room. Above it floated a human heart, swollen and blue with corruption, yet still alive. It beat, a deep ponderous throb of sound, and each pulse sent out a wash of indigo light. The figures around the table were no more than blue shadows. As Dany walked to the empty chair at the foot of the table, they did not stir, nor speak, nor turn to face her. There was no sound but the slow, deep beat of the rotting heart.”

Wow that's quite a connection. Yeah, I'm starting to think that the Undying are a break off branch of the COTF who moved away from their nature roots and moved on to "tangible" magic. Perhaps because they are so close to Asshai and the other eastern cities where it seems magic sprung/was discovered/broke the world.

Like Azor Ahai’s three attempts to forge Lightbringer, it takes three attempts for her to obtain her dragon eggs. GRRM wrote Dany’s arc to be heavily associated with the number three, this cannot be a coincidence, we believe.

I agree. There is a lot about the number three when you look at it symbolically. The Holy Trinity, The Triple Goddess (something that just *is* Dany as we talked about quite a bit back in the Dany re-read), Triple Bodhi as a way to understand life and death, There is a lot more and if you're interested here's a link to an interesting read

Dany’s tale is not done yet and although we can find more similarities between Dany’s story and that of Azor ahai, these examples should be sufficient enough in showing that there are strong parallels between Dany’s arc and Azor Ahai’s story.

Nicely done. It's complicated to discuss prophetic matters because everyone wants "their guy" to be the one. And if it's not their guy, then the prophetic figure is "evil" or something. I agree that Dany shares a lot of parallels with AA and might be AAR, but not only because of those parallels but because the practitioners of that religion have declared her to be such. Cultures decide who their heroes are. Outsiders might disagree, but what matters is how the worshipers understand their faith. Dany may not be AAR in reality, but so long as the followers of the Red God believer her to be, then she *is*.

The Last Hero

I very much believe that Bran is playing out the LH story and as i said over in the Bran re-read, I don't think "hero" means what we understand it to mean. I think that's a perfect GRRM twist: the "hero" whose story reads just like a typical archetypical warrior hero was actually far more grey and did some things that will shock us all. And I think that applies to Bran.

Discussion

A good question to ask is what GRRM is trying to accomplish by infusing both Dany and Bran’s arcs with similarities to these mythical heroes. Does he want us to simply draw a line from the mythical heroes to the characters themselves. Or perhaps he wants us to look at the nature of what makes a person a hero. Neither Dany nor Bran are purposely setting out to be heroes, yet their actions, Dany’s more so than Bran’s are heroic in nature

My take: once again, cultures make their own heroes. The culture that Bran is entering, the COTF and (maybe) the Others need their own hero. That's Bran. The boy who has ice in veins, comes from the Kings of Winter,is a warg and a dreamseer. Dany, with fire in her veins and has helped birth three dragons will be the hero of another culture. What GRRM is doing is trying to show us that "heroes" are culture specific. Not all heroes are going to be called heroes universally. It all depends on where you are standing.

[Kyoshi]

You guys have been doing an amazing job at keeping this thread alive and thought-provoking. I'm very behind but I don't think it matters since the follow-up discussions to each of the essays has been so good to read. Just a few thoughts on the latest...

Thanks for the great job, QA and MOIAF. I remember a while back, and Bear Queen I think you were involved in this, when we discussed all the horse imagery with relation to Hodor. It got me thinking now with QA and MOIAF's dissection of the hero's monomyth. If I remember correctly, the Last Hero set forth with a dog, a horse, a sword and a dozen champions. Before leaving Winterfell, Bran and the Gang take some (or one) of the swords held by the old Winter Kings. If we assume Summer to be the equivalent of a dog and Meera and Jojen to be something (at the same time admittedly less than) a dozen champions, then we have the complete Last Hero Crew. I know I'm stretching but please bear with me.

Dany does not have these parallels as such. But she does have her dragons and they are said to be a flaming sword hovering over the world. She has the White Bull in the form of Barristan, and I'm guessing if I smoke enough grass I'll find one other thing. These thing sort of link her, in a roundabout and very stretchy way, to the LH. But Jaime has these parallels, in a manner of speaking. I became intrigued by Ser Creighton's supposition that Bran and Dany have Jaime in common. It's not obvious at first but Ser Creighton pointed out some of these things. One other thing is that Cersei says that the only thing Jaime loves/d more than her is to play with swords, dogs and horses. I'm obviously paraphrasing but I swear there's something like that in one of the books.

We can stretch this further to include Brienne's apparent likeness to a horse, as thought by Jaime. It may be worth noting that Jaime also gave Brienne a sword that used to be one half of Ice. And Brienne is currently on a quest to rescue Sansa and Arya; this same quest is now closely tied to the Hound (the dog) and Pod (a champion...perhaps one of many. We can include Gendry if we like). So we have horses, swords, dogs and champions everywhere...

I really want to say more but I can't type for long; muscle pain and all. Anyway, crackpot time over...also hope I'm not derailing the thread. And again, really great job, everyone.

[Hrafntýr]

Another terrific essay, MoIaF and Queen Alysanne!

Discussion

A good question to ask is what GRRM is trying to accomplish by infusing both Dany and Bran’s arcs with similarities to these mythical heroes. Does he want us to simply draw a line from the mythical heroes to the characters themselves. Or perhaps he wants us to look at the nature of what makes a person a hero. Neither Dany nor Bran are purposely setting out to be heroes, yet their actions, Dany’s more so than Bran’s are heroic in nature.

One thing that I find particularly interesting about the parallels drawn between Bran/LH and Dany/AA is the fact that we have no idea what LH and AA actually did; the traditions of which they are a part tell us that both heroes were in some way successful, but we don't know how. We get bits and pieces of each story, key motifs (which you've so nicely highlighted in your essay!), but nothing about how these figures managed to defeat the darkness that figures in both tales. One consequence of this is that it keeps us in eager anticipation of where Bran's and Dany's stories are going, as the potential cosmic significance of their stories has been forcefully signalled for us. And I think you're right to flag the way in which the parallels between the myths and these character's arcs make us question the nature of the hero, and to consider how the way a figure is remembered in history and legend may depart from the lived reality of the individuals who are later made legendary.

Your last point is also a good one: that the AA figure/story is rather different from the LH figure/story. The AA story is more martial, centering on the creation of a conquering weapon, with a martial sort of focus, and seems to be a story of mounting power that culminates in some kind of glorious defeat of darkness/the enemy. The LH story seems to diminish martial aspects, with the traditional accompaniments of the conquering hero being taken away from him; he even loses his sword, in contrast to AA's story featuring the winning of a sword (though later Sam does find that account that speaks of the LH fighting others with a dragonsteel sword, so it could be that the LH's story has a martial aspect not yet revealed). This contrast works with what's happened in Bran and Dany's more "mundane" stories, insofar as Dany has achieved military conquest and seems set upon an arc of expansion even as Bran has seen the loss of his dreams of knightly conquest on account of his paralysis and has moved out of the known world and toward an inward directed journey that seems more about knowledge than force of arms. I wonder, if "victory" (whatever that might mean!) is achieved, whether we'll be left with a sense that one or the other of our heroes is ultimately responsible for the victory. [And incidentally, I take heart in the fact that the world does know of the LH, which gives me some hope that Bran won't linger indefinitely in obscurity wed to a tree, though it's possible that the person the world knows as the LH isn't the one who is actually responsible for ending the LN/defeating the Others.]

I also wonder if we're going to hear more elements of the tales of AA and the LH!

[BearQueen87]

Another terrific essay, MoIaF and Queen Alysanne!

One thing that I find particularly interesting about the parallels drawn between Bran/LH and Dany/AA is the fact that we have no idea what LH and AA actually did; the traditions of which they are a part tell us that both heroes were in some way successful, but we don't know how. We get bits and pieces of each story, key motifs (which you've so nicely highlighted in your essay!), but nothing about how these figures managed to defeat the darkness that figures in both tales.

Agreed. The LH story famously gets interrupted just as Old Nan is about to hit the climax where the hero would be assisted by some divine force and manage to stave off the army of the demonic big bads and win the day for human kind. Hip hip horray! And if that is actually how the LH story played out, I'll eat my hat.

I also wonder if we're going to hear more elements of the tales of AA and the LH!

Now that Bran is hooked up to the weirnet, I think we'll get more elements of the LH story. AA is hard to say because we don't even know that he fought (or whatever) in Westeros at any point. He seems to be an Essoi savior figure. If there are no weirwood trees in Essos (native ones and not of the anti-weirwood variety like at the HotU) can Bran tap into those memories? If not, that might explain why BR hasn't visited Dany in any manner but Quaithe has. BR literally can't see her.

[MoIaF]

Excellent work once again MOIAF and Queen Alysanne!

Thank you very much! :D

It's interesting that you bring this up. Qarth likes to fancy itself as the oldest and important city in the world, but from the WB we see that it's not. It's a great city, but certainly not the cradle of civilization it likes to pretend to be. We are also given startlingly little about the Warlocks of Qarth. We know they are "undying" but for how long? What were they like pre-their now static condition? Do the Warlocks and the Children have any connection to each other? Are the Warlocks maybe a branch of rogue COTF? We don't know for certain but it seems like the COTF did exist in Essos. Perhaps as time passed, the COTF of Essos and the COTF of Westeros took up different "hobbies" shall we say. Also, the Undying say that they have been waiting for 1000 years for her but what about before then? The Long Night was 6000-8000 years ago.

So, I was thinking about this and I think that the Undying might have existed prior to the creation of Qarth. I sort of alluding to this in the essay but I believe that magic has a common root, of course that doesn't mean that all things magical were created at the same time, however, there are similarities between the Children and the Undying that are very curious. The trees they are surrounded with, the long lives that they live, we see that the HOTU has weirwood in it (i.e. the doors to the fake Undying hall). Perhaps they might not be as old as the Children's race but I get the impression that they are quite old indeed. Perhaps they were the original founder of Qarth.

Both the HOTU and the Cave have an aversion to light and fire. At one point, the torches in the HOTU begin going out and Dany is almost in total darkness; moreover, what drives back the Undying and keeps them from eating Dany alive is Drogon's fire. Drogon's fire/Dany's life force drives back the darkness; it is stronger than the dark (something the Others are notorious for bringing, at least in myth). But the Cave has no such light giver. If the fire goes out, that's it. So people adapt to the darkness. Bran is told that he can thrive in the darkness. (I am worried for Bran).

I was having a conversation with Ser C. about the darkness and I hypothesize that Bloodraven asks of him to embrace the darkness in order to understand it. Like I think in the past the Long Night was beaten back and probably "put away" but maybe what Bloodraven wants to do know is fix whatever has been broken and to do that you have to understand what is broken.

This is crack speculation on my part so, who the heck knows.

For some unknown reason one time, over in RLJ, Kingmonkey and I got talking about this as the anti-weirwood. Black and white obviously two sides of the same coin. Red and Blue are more complicated though because they aren't contrasting colors. Red's contrasting color is actually green. Red and blue are both primary colors (and Bran and Dany are both primary characters). Or maybe I'm reading too deeply into color theory.

Hello Trident and it's blue, red, and green forks, how you doing? Honestly, I don't know what the colors mean other than the standard blue is cold, red is hot, i.e. ice and fire. How does green feet into that, who knows because the in-between blue and red would be violet/purple.

However, if we are talking about magic, it's probably something like, blue is ice magic, red is fire magic and green is earth magic. None of them is more important than the others, but the imbalance might be that they were split into three branches and like the trident they'l need to be united in to one magic.

Also, complete speculation on my part.

My take: once again, cultures make their own heroes. The culture that Bran is entering, the COTF and (maybe) the Others need their own hero. That's Bran. The boy who has ice in veins, comes from the Kings of Winter,is a warg and a dreamseer. Dany, with fire in her veins and has helped birth three dragons will be the hero of another culture. What GRRM is doing is trying to show us that "heroes" are culture specific. Not all heroes are going to be called heroes universally. It all depends on where you are standing.

So, I've also been talking with Ser. C. about perspective and I think that the hero mythology is also about perspective. Like what each culture would deem they hero's deeds to be heroic. And so that's where we see the variance.

However, I tend to lean on the fact that there wasn't just one hero but many and so each culture used a standard to name their hero. In fact I'm sure that there were many heroes in the first Ling Night and we'll see just as many in the second.

[MoIaF]

You guys have been doing an amazing job at keeping this thread alive and thought-provoking. I'm very behind but I don't think it matters since the follow-up discussions to each of the essays has been so good to read. Just a few thoughts on the latest...

Thanks for the great job, QA and MOIAF. I remember a while back, and Bear Queen I think you were involved in this, when we discussed all the horse imagery with relation to Hodor. It got me thinking now with QA and MOIAF's dissection of the hero's monomyth. If I remember correctly, the Last Hero set forth with a dog, a horse, a sword and a dozen champions. Before leaving Winterfell, Bran and the Gang take some (or one) of the swords held by the old Winter Kings. If we assume Summer to be the equivalent of a dog and Meera and Jojen to be something (at the same time admittedly less than) a dozen champions, then we have the complete Last Hero Crew. I know I'm stretching but please bear with me.

Dany does not have these parallels as such. But she does have her dragons and they are said to be a flaming sword hovering over the world. She has the White Bull in the form of Barristan, and I'm guessing if I smoke enough grass I'll find one other thing. These thing sort of link her, in a roundabout and very stretchy way, to the LH. But Jaime has these parallels, in a manner of speaking. I became intrigued by Ser Creighton's supposition that Bran and Dany have Jaime in common. It's not obvious at first but Ser Creighton pointed out some of these things. One other thing is that Cersei says that the only thing Jaime loves/d more than her is to play with swords, dogs and horses. I'm obviously paraphrasing but I swear there's something like that in one of the books.

We can stretch this further to include Brienne's apparent likeness to a horse, as thought by Jaime. It may be worth noting that Jaime also gave Brienne a sword that used to be one half of Ice. And Brienne is currently on a quest to rescue Sansa and Arya; this same quest is now closely tied to the Hound (the dog) and Pod (a champion...perhaps one of many. We can include Gendry if we like). So we have horses, swords, dogs and champions everywhere...

I really want to say more but I can't type for long; muscle pain and all. Anyway, crackpot time over...also hope I'm not derailing the thread. And again, really great job, everyone.

Thanks Kyoshi!

Very nice catch. I like where you are going with this. Come back and give us the rest.

Another terrific essay, MoIaF and Queen Alysanne!

Thank you very much!

Regarding the hero's purpose. I think it's left ambiguous because different heroes will have different purposes. So, everyone has a specific role to play based on their strengths and skills very much like real life. The idea of one hero with a sword kicking every bad guys butt is ludicrous. It's unreality and it makes little sense when you think of the logistics of that.

For example, when the Long Night comes we'll need leaders who will take care of the young and weak (I imagine hold up in a castle somewhere) who organizes them and keeps them alive as best as they can. Those leaders won't be of a martial nature but their deeds can be construed as heroic. As I mentioned above each culture gives attributes to their hero which they find heroic. Some cultures would find these sorts of people (the ones who take care of the young and weak) as heroic and perhaps there are stories in other cultures about these sorts of heroes.

I think in many way GRRM is exploring the nature of heroes and what are they like as real flesh and blood people. The good things they do and the bad things they do.

[BearQueen87]

Thank you very much! :D

So, I was thinking about this and I think that the Undying might have existed prior to the creation of Qarth. I sort of alluding to this in the essay but I believe that magic has a common root, of course that doesn't mean that all things magical were created at the same time, however, there are similarities between the Children and the Undying that are very curious. The trees they are surrounded with, the long lives that they live, we see that the HOTU has weirwood in it (i.e. the doors to the fake Undying hall). Perhaps they might not be as old as the Children's race but I get the impression that they are quite old indeed. Perhaps they were the original founder of Qarth.

I like the idea of magic having a common root. So then my question becomes did it come from somewhere else? Is it natural to Planetos? Obviously GRRM is pulling quite heavily on Lovecraft and his ideas and if we accept that the Old Ones/Deep Ones do exist (and yeah, I think they probably do) then did they bring the magic? Did the magic draw them to Planetos? And honestly, those are questions to which we might never have an answer. I don't expect that GRRM will eventually sit one of his characters down and get the answers to life, the universe, and everything (it's 42) because that's not how "real" world history works. We'll always have questions and until we get a TARDIS we won't ever really know. But...total off the wall crackpottery here: I think magic became known first in the Shadow and humans...done fracked up. *Something* happened over there to cause the breaking of the world. I suspect that is the only thing we'll ever learn about and even then the motivations of whoever did it....children, humans, Old Ones, the Undying...will remain couched in perspective.

So, I've also been talking with Ser. C. about perspective and I think that the hero mythology is also about perspective. Like what each culture would deem they hero's deeds to be heroic. And so that's where we see the variance.

However, I tend to lean on the fact that there wasn't just one hero but many and so each culture used a standard to name their hero. In fact I'm sure that there were many heroes in the first Ling Night and we'll see just as many in the second.

I think you know that I totally agree with you on this part. I don't think AA = TPTWP = The LH = whaevert the heck, a demon lady with a monkey tail or whatnot. I think it was a planetary effort but that each culture worked without knowing that it was a planetary effort. Each local hero and even big mythic heroes worked in whatever way they could wherever they are to drive back the dark. BUT the big difference this time around is that the cultural heroes are going to work together. The audience may come to learn (officially and objectively) that Jon/Dany/Whoever = TPTWP/AAR but will the culture go,"oh...it's you!" I dunno about that. I think even if Jon does "the thing" the Reds might still be inclined to believe that Dany is AAR they will just readjust their understanding of what her status of AAR means and how she is their savior.

I will have a big problem if GRRM suddenly says that there can only be one ultimate hero because that is a disservice to cultural interpretations of what is heroic and what is not.

[Seams]

... got me thinking now with QA and MOIAF's dissection of the hero's monomyth. If I remember correctly, the Last Hero set forth with a dog, a horse, a sword and a dozen champions. Before leaving Winterfell, Bran and the Gang take some (or one) of the swords held by the old Winter Kings. If we assume Summer to be the equivalent of a dog and Meera and Jojen to be something (at the same time admittedly less than) a dozen champions, then we have the complete Last Hero Crew. I know I'm stretching but please bear with me.

Dany does not have these parallels as such. But she does have her dragons and they are said to be a flaming sword hovering over the world. She has the White Bull in the form of Barristan, and I'm guessing if I smoke enough grass I'll find one other thing. These thing sort of link her, in a roundabout and very stretchy way, to the LH. But Jaime has these parallels, in a manner of speaking. ...

We can stretch this further to include Brienne's apparent likeness to a horse, as thought by Jaime. It may be worth noting that Jaime also gave Brienne a sword that used to be one half of Ice. And Brienne is currently on a quest to rescue Sansa and Arya; this same quest is now closely tied to the Hound (the dog) and Pod (a champion...perhaps one of many. We can include Gendry if we like). So we have horses, swords, dogs and champions everywhere...

I love this set of observations, Kyoshi. Your interesting point came at just the right time in my current reread to compare Tyrion's experience to the elements of the Last Hero story. Tyrion made a big point at the beginning of the series of comparing his wits to Jaime's sword, and described sharpening his wits on books as a sword is sharpened on a whetstone. In his journey through Essos, we definitely see him using his wits to win at Cyvasse and to affect the outcome of the slave auction. His "horse" is a Pretty Pig and he has companions (Ser Jorah and Penny but particularly interesting if you count Varys, Jon Connington, "Young Griff," and others at earlier stages along his journey) and the LH dog role is played by Crunch.

Regarding the hero's purpose. I think it's left ambiguous because different heroes will have different purposes. So, everyone has a specific role to play based on their strengths and skills very much like real life. The idea of one hero with a sword kicking every bad guys butt is ludicrous. It's unreality and it makes little sense when you think of the logistics of that.

For example, when the Long Night comes we'll need leaders who will take care of the young and weak (I imagine hold up in a castle somewhere) who organizes them and keeps them alive as best as they can. Those leaders won't be of a martial nature but their deeds can be construed as heroic. As I mentioned above each culture gives attributes to their hero which they find heroic. Some cultures would find these sorts of people (the ones who take care of the young and weak) as heroic and perhaps there are stories in other cultures about these sorts of heroes.

I think in many way GRRM is exploring the nature of heroes and what are they like as real flesh and blood people. The good things they do and the bad things they do.

At first I wondered whether the Tyrion version of these hero elements is a case of GRRM creating a parody of the LH myth, or if this just reinforces your point, MoIaF, that he is deliberately setting up a wide, varied array of heroes and showing that a sword doesn't have to be made of steel and that a horse can take other forms. We saw Tyrion get little to no credit for saving King's Landing from Stannis up until the arrival of Tywin's army (Varys, the notable exception, thanks Tyrion and says the community will remember) and he is so far removed from the classical notions of the Last Hero in his journey through Essos that it would be easy to overlook his heroic profile yet again. (I guess the loss of his nose gives him a low profile - I never made that connection before!)

One thought: If all of these elements put Tyrion in the running to fill a hero's role, do Penny and Ser Jorah also qualify as heroes using roughly the same set of elements? They would need different swords, and Ser Jorah doesn't ride the pig or dog. Maybe he doesn't fit the Last Hero mold as much as the Bear and Maiden Fair archetype. I have the feeling that some characters will reflect more than one of the traditional stories, though. As Kyoshi points out, Brienne's arc reflects some or all of the Hero elements, but she is certainly part of the Bear and Maiden Fair pattern as well.

Sorry to wander away from the Bran/Dany focus. I notice Tyrion isn't on the official list of Parallels to compare to Dany, so I figured maybe it would be o.k. to throw him in here.

[BearQueen87]

At first I wondered whether the Tyrion version of these hero elements is a case of GRRM creating a parody of the LH myth, or if this just reinforces your point, MoIaF, that he is deliberately setting up a wide, varied array of heroes and showing that a sword doesn't have to be made of steel and that a horse can take other forms. We saw Tyrion get little to no credit for saving King's Landing from Stannis up until the arrival of Tywin's army (Varys, the notable exception, thanks Tyrion and says the community will remember) and he is so far removed from the classical notions of the Last Hero in his journey through Essos that it would be easy to overlook his heroic profile yet again. (I guess the loss of his nose gives him a low profile - I never made that connection before!)

One thought: If all of these elements put Tyrion in the running to fill a hero's role, do Penny and Ser Jorah also qualify as heroes using roughly the same set of elements? They would need different swords, and Ser Jorah doesn't ride the pig or dog. Maybe he doesn't fit the Last Hero mold as much as the Bear and Maiden Fair archetype. I have the feeling that some characters will reflect more than one of the traditional stories, though. As Kyoshi points out, Brienne's arc reflects some or all of the Hero elements, but she is certainly part of the Bear and Maiden Fair pattern as well.

Sorry to wander away from the Bran/Dany focus. I notice Tyrion isn't on the official list of Parallels to compare to Dany, so I figured maybe it would be o.k. to throw him in here.

I think the distinction we might drawn is between mythic heroes and personal heroes. For example, there will be a handful of mythic heroes: Dany, Jon, Bran spring to mind right away. Tyrion I think might be if he is in fact a dragon rider. But the other characters, the ones who are heroes in their own story and who wage war against the Long Night through more "mundane" (but not unimportant ways) are the personal heroes.

That's where I see someone like Jorah. He's already a personal hero to Dany. Dany thinks in ASOS about how Jorah has saved her life countless times, he's her good right hand, her closest friend, a better brother than Viserys, a better father than she has ever known, he's her bear--an image that instantly conjures a fierce and protective figure--and she is simultaneously his queen and his "cub" and a woman to him. He's the first one who truly sees Dany and the first person she ever confides in about taking Visery's place as the one who could take back Westeros.

Brienne is the same; Jaime and Brienne work a lot like Jorah and Dany but with the genders reversed. Brienne is a personal hero to Jaime, someone who really saw him for what he might be instead of how the rest of Westeros sees him; someone in whom Jaime confessed everything about why he slew Aerys, someone that Jaime thinks about constantly once they are parted (much like Dany thinks about Jorah and misses him in ADWD) and of course, both sets of pairs have a connection to the Bear and the Maiden Fair, one more ironic than the other.

But neither Jorah nor Brienne are likely to be the "big damn hero" in the mythic sense. They are not unimportant in any sense but their role is of a far more interpersonal nature.

[Kyoshi]

Typing from my not so smart phone so I can't quote. Firstly, I really like the idea of magic as having a common root of some sort. I now wonder if it's like a Big Bang situation. You know, like before there was everything there was nothing, not even time because that is something. And then the magical bang happened and spread into the world, the magic evolved and as necessary of all things, the magic is now following the natural order of decay. That sounds absolutely nihilistic and farfetched and I'm not even sure that I understand what I just typed, but it just popped in my head.

I really like this discussion of heroes. I like the mention of Tyrion. And like you all point out, none of these people are traditional. We have Bran the Crippled Boy, Daenerys the Woman, Tyrion the Dwarf, Jaime the one handed dude, Jon the Life-deprived, etc. It's quite refreshing to see a catalogue of such "limited" individuals in the running for "saviour" in such an epic tale. I must confess that I find the "limitations" even more pronounced in Dany and Bran for one reason: neither is the tall, dark and handsome hidden prince often universally liked by everyone. In fact, I think it accurate to state that of the offered myriad of heroes from which to choose, Dany and Bran are the least traditional. A little girl (who defies every fantasy trope with every sentence that is written of her) and a broken boy (likely too spend the duration of the war as a tree and, behind the scenes so to speak).

That said, Bear Queen makes a stellar point on the issue of heroes.

So I finally smoked enough grass in an attempt to finish the Ser Creighton inspired theory on how exactly Bran and Dany have Jaime in common. I was trying to find if Bran and Jaime are the only characters strongly asscoiated with the Last Hero legend and I don't think I can say that with absolute certainty. But so far, this seems to be true. Given that Jaime killed Aerys with his sword hand, and pushed Bran with the same hand, the same hand he later loses and thus shedding his old skin, I can't help but posit that Jaime will be the wise old man in fantasy tropes who will lead Dany and Bran to their true calling. I don't have all the details fleshed out but the more I think on it, the more I find the irony too delectable for Martin to avoid. Of course, this is pure crackpot and will not support it at all if pressed to do so, but it was a Sunday afternoon and I just thought I should share it.

Please kindly forgive grammatical and spelling errors.

[SeanF]

So I finally smoked enough grass in an attempt to finish the Ser Creighton inspired theory on how exactly Bran and Dany have Jaime in common. I was trying to find if Bran and Jaime are the only characters strongly asscoiated with the Last Hero legend and I don't think I can say that with absolute certainty. But so far, this seems to be true. Given that Jaime killed Aerys with his sword hand, and pushed Bran with the same hand, the same hand he later loses and thus shedding his old skin, I can't help but posit that Jaime will be the wise old man in fantasy tropes who will lead Dany and Bran to their true calling. I don't have all the details fleshed out but the more I think on it, the more I find the irony too delectable for Martin to avoid. Of course, this is pure crackpot and will not support it at all if pressed to do so, but it was a Sunday afternoon and I just thought I should share it.

rs.

I'd never thought about that, but Jaime has had an enormous impact on them both.

I've sometimes wondered why Dany never thinks about Jaime. She must know that he was her father's killer. You'd think that of all the "Usurper's Dogs" he'd be the one she hated most.

[Kyoshi]

I'd never thought about that, but Jaime has had an enormous impact on them both.

I've sometimes wondered why Dany never thinks about Jaime. She must know that he was her father's killer. You'd think that of all the "Usurper's Dogs" he'd be the one she hated most.

Bran also doesn't dwell on Jaime. He just remembers the golden man he asscoiates with the falling dream. Beyond that, he remembers Jaime as the Queen's brother and that he doesn't quite like him. In my opinion, Bran laments the consequences of the fall more than the fall itself. Neither Bran nor Daenerys actually thinks of Jaime all that much.

Also remember that this is the same hand Jaime used when arousing his sister, a great crime by the laws of both gods and men, apparently. Cersei laments the loss of the hand greatly, as well as Jaime. Later, after he has shed his skin, he refuses to defend Cersei in her trial, this can be viewed as him refusing to give her his hand one more time. But the thing is that he doesn't have it, quite literally.

Before Bran's fall, Jaime actually offered his hand to Bran and THEN let him go. One can interpret the offering of Jaime's hand as a handshake, a sealing of pacts, something quite sacred. One can't help but wonder if Bran would have fallen at all without Jaime's "help." Jaime could have indebted himself to Bran without even realising it.

Before killing Aerys, Jaime had sworn to give his life to protect the man. This can be seen a handshake of sorts, a sealing of pacts, something quite sacred, as was the case with Bran and the fall. The diffrence between this and the Bran situation is that Aerys actually dies and Daenerys's life takes a path it might not have taken had her father lived. It seems that Jaime is in the habit of using his sword hand to both seal sacred pacts and then to break them, altering live. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Additionally, he is always refusing, in one way or another, assuming the position of the Hand of the King.

I've thought for a long time that Jaime's hand deserves it's own thread.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Whew finally caught up!

Typing from my not so smart phone so I can't quote. Firstly, I really like the idea of magic as having a common root of some sort. I now wonder if it's like a Big Bang situation. You know, like before there was everything there was nothing, not even time because that is something. And then the magical bang happened and spread into the world, the magic evolved and as necessary of all things, the magic is now following the natural order of decay. That sounds absolutely nihilistic and farfetched and I'm not even sure that I understand what I just typed, but it just popped in my head.

Someone in another thread gave a really good explanation to how magic appears in ASOIAF, by associating it to the way comets work.

I think I kind of makes sense when looking at it.

When comets appear they can have orbital periods of a short time or of a long one, which could be millions of years. I think magic occurs like that, it comes like a comet and then there is a "magical period" then it wanes as time goes on and then it returns again at some point.

Crackpot:

One idea i've been toying with is that magic is connected to the appearance of the red comet, in other words when the comet comes it means magic is back. I think it's possible someone made that connection along time ago, and that probably why all the prophecies connect the red comet with the coming of a hero. So the appearance of the comet probably signified an "age of miracles"

Thank you very much! :D

So, I was thinking about this and I think that the Undying might have existed prior to the creation of Qarth. I sort of alluding to this in the essay but I believe that magic has a common root, of course that doesn't mean that all things magical were created at the same time, however, there are similarities between the Children and the Undying that are very curious. The trees they are surrounded with, the long lives that they live, we see that the HOTU has weirwood in it (i.e. the doors to the fake Undying hall). Perhaps they might not be as old as the Children's race but I get the impression that they are quite old indeed. Perhaps they were the original founder of Qarth.

Interesting, I think someone mentioned that the buildings of the HOTU have similar material to the black stones in Asshai that absorb sunlight. So perhaps there is a connection between the Ancient Asshai race and Qarth? Also Qarth are one of the cities that have one of the versions of the origins of dragons.

Agreed. The LH story famously gets interrupted just as Old Nan is about to hit the climax where the hero would be assisted by some divine force and manage to stave off the army of the demonic big bads and win the day for human kind. Hip hip horray! And if that is actually how the LH story played out, I'll eat my hat.

I agree. I think throughout the story different ways of dealing with enemies have been shown. One is by war (attack), another by compromise with the enemy and the last by defence like the Wall. I think the LH and AA may differ in the way they dealt with their enemies, and the LH may have fallen along the line of defence or compromise given he had no way to attack after being stranded.

[BearQueen87]

Typing from my not so smart phone so I can't quote. Firstly, I really like the idea of magic as having a common root of some sort. I now wonder if it's like a Big Bang situation. You know, like before there was everything there was nothing, not even time because that is something. And then the magical bang happened and spread into the world, the magic evolved and as necessary of all things, the magic is now following the natural order of decay. That sounds absolutely nihilistic and farfetched and I'm not even sure that I understand what I just typed, but it just popped in my head.

I like that. Universeos (Universe but GRRM styled!) comes into existence and there are currents of magic that just run throughout Planetos. Human manage to tap into that. Think about ley lines. There are places in the world where magic is strongest, where human can tap into the natural magic easier. I think there are pockets of ley lines on Planetos--Asshai, the Shadow, Qarth, The Heart of Winter, and perhaps even Winterfell itself.

I must confess that I find the "limitations" even more pronounced in Dany and Bran for one reason: neither is the tall, dark and handsome hidden prince often universally liked by everyone. In fact, I think it accurate to state that of the offered myriad of heroes from which to choose, Dany and Bran are the least traditional. A little girl (who defies every fantasy trope with every sentence that is written of her) and a broken boy (likely too spend the duration of the war as a tree and, behind the scenes so to speak).

#Word

I'd never thought about that, but Jaime has had an enormous impact on them both.

I've sometimes wondered why Dany never thinks about Jaime. She must know that he was her father's killer. You'd think that of all the "Usurper's Dogs" he'd be the one she hated most.

Dany lumps them altogether, I think, which is why her dynamic with Tyrion come WOW will be interesting.

Interesting, I think someone mentioned that the buildings of the HOTU have similar material to the black stones in Asshai that absorb sunlight. So perhaps there is a connection between the Ancient Asshai race and Qarth? Also Qarth are one of the cities that have one of the versions of the origins of dragons.

The same black stones that are also part of the high tower and other structures? Cause damn those things were prevalent in the World Book.

I agree. I think throughout the story different ways of dealing with enemies have been shown. One is by war (attack), another by compromise with the enemy and the last by defence like the Wall. I think the LH and AA may differ in the way they dealt with their enemies, and the LH may have fallen along the line of defence or compromise given he had no way to attack after being stranded.

I've been toying with the idea that the LH and the Others had a marriage pact. Later, over time, this marriage pact splits into two stories: the LH who defeated the Others with some magic sword of the help of the gods or something, and the more horrifying Night's King and his Queen. They are historically the same, but have been retold so often that they appear to be two different stories.

[MoIaF]

Of Dragons and Wolves

The Parallel Journey of Daenerys Targaryen and Bran Stark

Written by MoIaF & Queen Alysanne

Essay III: Animal Bond and Miscellaneous Similarities

As we come to the end of our series of essays exploring the parallels between Dany and Bran we look at the dragonlord and warg bond that each character has with their animal familiars. How these bonds have defined them and helped them in their times of need. We’ll also look at other miscellaneous similarities which these two characters share. As noted in the first essay the parallels shared by these two characters are primarily of a magical nature. Their experiences have helped us understand better that part of the series that is so elusive to us at this moment, that of magic and what it is and how it works. As the series progresses their abilities as a greenseer /warg and dragonlord will become more important because of the increase in magic.

The Warg Bond and the Dragonlord Bond

It is common in our world for pets to react angrily or fearfully when their owners are in danger, however, pets in our world never react to a thought of their owner, since they can’t read their minds. It is also key to note that animals do not have the same type of cognitive abilities as humans to express emotions based on subjective things, an example is a scary movie, the movie may be scary to some humans and not to others based on personal taste, however, a dog or a lizard will not react subjectively to a scary movie.

In the WOIAF, however, these animal familiars react in ways not comparable to real animals. These animal familiars act upon their companions thoughts (subconscious at times), moods, emotions and even at times recognize situation before their companions do. It is fair to then suggest that these animals have more than just basic imprinting towards their owners since the realm of the story allows for supernatural happenings beyond the boundaries of natural bounding.

The Warg Bond

The first example we’ll look at is Summer’s response to Jojen when he angers Bran with talk of greendreams and the Three-eyed Crow. Jejune himself explains to us why Summer reacted the way he does and explains the bond betweendire wolf and warg:

“Jojen is making him angry.” Meera shook out her net. “It’s your anger, Bran,” her brother said. “Your fear.” “It isn’t. I’m not a wolf.” Yet he’d howled with them in the night, and tasted blood in his wolf dreams. “Part of you is Summer, and part of Summer is you. You know that, Bran.” Summer rushed forward, but Meera blocked him, jabbing with the three-pronged spear. The wolf twisted aside, circling, stalking. Meera turned to face him”

In ASOS Summer also reacts to Bran’s fears, this is evident in two cases from quotes below, Bran shows fear in his mind towards a twisting weirwood and a raven screaming:

“There were trees growing where the stables had been, and a twisted white weirwood pushing up through the gaping hole in the roof of the domed kitchen. Even Summer was not at ease here.”

“Something about the way the raven screamed sent a shiver running up Bran’s spine. I am almost a man grown, he had to remind himself. I have to be brave now. But the air was sharp and cold and full of fear. Even Summer was afraid. The fur on his neck was bristling.”

The first case is a good example of Summer’s reaction to Bran’s inner fear. The weirwood would not appear to most people as scare, however, to Bran it was and so his fear was manifested in Summer’s reaction. There is no reason for Summer to growl at the tree except to empathize with Bran’s response to it.

In ADWD we also see Bran getting rescued by Summer the moment at which he thinks of the wights as a threat to his life.

“All around him, wights were rising from beneath the snow. Two, three, four. Bran lost count. They surged up violently amidst sudden clouds of snow. Some wore black cloaks, some ragged skins, some nothing. All of them had pale flesh and black hands. Their eyes glowed like pale blue stars. Three of them descended on the ranger. Bran saw Coldhands slash one across the face. The thing kept right on coming, driving him back into the arms of another. Two more were going after Hodor, lumbering clumsily down the slope. Meera was going to climb right into this, Bran realized, with a sick sense of helpless terror. He smashed the snow and shouted out a warning. Something grabbed hold of him. That was when his shout became a scream. Bran filled a fist with snow and threw it, but the wight did not so much as blink. A black hand fumbled at his face, another at his belly. Its fingers felt like iron. He’s going to pull my guts out. But suddenly Summer was between them. Bran glimpsed skin tear like cheap cloth, heard the splintering of bone. He saw a hand and wrist rip loose, pale fingers wriggling, the sleeve faded black roughspun. Black, he thought, he’s wearing black, he was one of the Watch. Summer flung the arm aside, twisted, and sank his teeth into the dead man’s neck under the chin. When the big grey wolf wrenched free, he took most of the creature’s throat out in an explosion of pale rotten meat.”

This isn’t the first time that Summer comes to Bran’s rescue, the first of course was when Bran was about to be attacked during his coma. The bond between them is incurably strong, Summer would risk his life in order to save Bran and instinctively knows when he’s in danger.

Wolf Dreams

Another important part of the bond between Bran and Summer is their shared wolf dreams. Through them Bran slips into Summer’s skin while a sleep and see what Summer sees.

“He went to sleep with his head full of knights in gleaming armor, fighting with swords that shone like starfire, but when the dream came he was in the godswood again. The smells from the kitchen and the Great Hall were so strong that it was almost as if he had never left the feast. He prowled beneath the trees, his brother close behind him. This night was wildly alive, full of the howling of the man-pack at their play. The sounds made him restless. He wanted to run, to hunt, he wanted to—

The rattle of iron made his ears prick up. His brother heard it too. They raced through the undergrowth toward the sound. Bounding across the still water at the foot of the old white one, he caught the scent of a stranger, the man-smell well mixed with leather and earth and iron.

The intruders had pushed a few yards into the wood when he came upon them; a female and a young male, with no taint of fear to them, even when he showed them the white of his teeth . His brother growled low in his throat, yet still they did not run.

“Here they come,” the female said. Meera, some part of him whispered, some wisp of the sleeping boy lost in the wolf dream. “Did you know they would be so big?”

“They will be bigger still before they are grown,” the young male said, watching them with eyes large, green, and unafraid. “The black one is full of fear and rage, but the grey is strong … stronger than he knows … can you feel him, sister?”

“No,” she said, moving a hand to the hilt of the long brown knife she wore. “Go careful, Jojen.”

“He won’t hurt me. This is not the day I die.” The male walked toward them, unafraid, and reached out for his muzzle, a touch as light as a summer breeze. Yet at the brush of those fingers the wood dissolved and the very ground turned to smoke beneath his feet and swirled away laughing, and then he was spinning and falling, falling, falling …”

Here both wolf and boy become one, a true bond. Bran at first struggled with this bonding because he didn’t understand it, it wasn’t normal, it scared him. But as time passes he begins to understand and accept the nature of their bond and it will soon become part of who he is.

The Dragonlord Bond

Just like with Bran Dany shares a strong connection to her black and red dragon, Drogon. Their bond also shares a physical ad mental aspect just like with Bran and Summer.

Here are a few examples of Drogon reaction to Dany’s emotions. In ACOK Drogon hisses when the moment Dany’s heard that Robert was dead and she felt a surge of joy all within her mind:

“A gift of news. Dragonmother, Stormborn, I tell you true, Robert Baratheon is dead.” Outside her walls, dusk was settling over Qarth, but a sun had risen in Dany’s heart. “Dead?” she repeated. In her lap, black Drogon hissed, and pale smoke rose before her face like a veil. “You are certain? The Usurper is dead?”

Then, when Dany is told about the marriage custom of Qarth she dismisses them assuring herself that the dragons are hers. Drogon then comes to her:

“Xaro assures me that in Qarth, man and woman each retain their own property after they are wed. The dragons are mine.” She smiled as Drogon came hopping and flapping across the marble floor to crawl up on the cushion beside her.

Then on their way to the House of the Undying Drogon reacts to the place, he distrust it as the others do as well:

“When Dany reaches the palace of dust she has a felling of fear and does not express this out of her mind, Drogon immediately hisses, I doubt a dragon would express a feeling of fear just by looking at a scary palace only unless it reacted of its human counterparts mind.

Long and low, without towers or windows, it coiled like a stone serpent through a grove of black-barked trees whose inky blue leaves made the stuff of the sorcerous drink the Qartheen called shade of the evening. No other buildings stood near. Black tiles covered the palace roof, many fallen or broken; the mortar between the stones was dry and crumbling. She understood now why Xaro Xhoan Daxos called it the Palace of Dust. Even Drogon seemed disquieted by the sight of it. The black dragon hissed, smoke seeping out between his sharp teeth.”

Similar to Bran, Drogon also rescues Dany when the Undying are trying to hurt her.

“The Undying were all around her, blue and cold, whispering as they reached for her, pulling, stroking, tugging at her clothes, touching her with their dry cold hands, twining their fingers through her hair. All the strength had left her limbs. She could not move. Even her heart had ceased to beat. She felt a hand on her bare breast, twisting her nipple. Teeth found the soft skin of her throat. A mouth descended on one eye, licking, sucking, biting . . . Then indigo turned to orange, and whispers turned to screams. Her heart was pounding, racing, the hands and mouths were gone, heat washed over her skin, and Dany blinked at a sudden glare. Perched above her, the dragon spread his wings and tore at the terrible dark heart, ripping the rotten flesh to ribbons, and when his head snapped forward, fire flew from his open jaws, bright and hot. She could hear the shrieks of the Undying as they burned, their high thin papery voices crying out in tongues long dead. Their flesh was crumbling parchment, their bones dry wood soaked in tallow. They danced as the flames consumed them; they staggered and writhed and spun and raised blazing hands on high, their fingers bright as torches.”

Also from ASOS when Dany talks about what she would do to Illyrio if he betrays her Drogon reacts and starts getting jumpy whiles the other dragons do not.

“Khaleesi, has it occurred to you that Whitebeard and Belwas might have been in league with the assassin? It might all have been a ploy to win your trust.” Her sudden laughter made Drogon hiss, and sent Viserion flapping to his perch above the porthole. “The ploy worked well.”

“….What does Illyrio Mopatis love more than gold?” “His skin.” Across the cabin Drogon stirred restlessly, steam rising from his snout. “Mirri Maz Duur betrayed me. I burned her for it.”

Another interesting moment of Dany and Drogon was when she was being pleased sexually, the first time on her own all dragons stirred and one screamed (which I think was Drogon) and then when Irri pleased her and Dany climaxed she screamed and confused it with Drogon and not the other dragons, meaning her and Drogon screamed at the same time so he probably felt what she felt.

“Once, so tormented she could not sleep, Dany slid a hand down between her legs, and gasped when she felt how wet she was. Scarce daring to breathe, she moved her fingers back and forth between her lower lips, slowly so as not to wake Irri beside her, until she found one sweet spot and lingered there, touching herself lightly, timidly at first and then faster. Still, the relief she wanted seemed to recede before her, until her dragons stirred, and one screamed out across the cabin, and Irri woke and saw what she was doing.

Dany knew her face was flushed, but in the darkness Irri surely could not tell. Wordless, the handmaid put a hand on her breast, then bent to take a nipple in her mouth. Her other hand drifted down across the soft curve of belly, through the mound of fine silvery-gold hair, and went to work between Dany’s thighs. It was no more than a few moments until her legs twisted and her breasts heaved and her whole body shuddered. She screamed then. Or perhaps that was Drogon. Irri never said a thing, only curled back up and went back to sleep the instant the thing was done.”

When Dany has made her plan on how to trick the slavers in Astapor when trading Drogon for the Unsullied she chains her dragons and brings them to Astapor. Viserion and Rhaegal start acting up since they are confused at what is going on but Drogon remains calm and curled up which suggest he knows something the other two don’t know through his bond with Dany:

Aggo went before her with his great Dothraki bow. Strong Belwas walked to the right of her mare, the girl Missandei to her left. Ser Jorah Mormont was behind in mail and surcoat, glowering at anyone who came too near. Rakharo and Jhogo protected the litter. Dany had commanded that the top be removed, so her three dragons might be chained to the platform. Irri and Jhiqui rode with them, to try and keep them calm. Yet Viserion’s tail lashed back and forth, and smoke rose angry from his nostrils. Rhaegal could sense something wrong as well. Thrice he tried to take wing, only to be pulled down by the heavy chain in Jhiqui’s hand. Drogon coiled into a ball, wings and tail tucked tight. Only his eyes remained to tell that he was not asleep.”

Drogon also screams when Dany expresses anger towards Jorah and Barristan.

“To hell, to serve King Robert.” Dany felt hot tears on her cheeks. Drogon screamed, lashing his tail back and forth. “The Others can have you both.”

In ADWD Dany and Drogon also scream as one when Drogon is stabbed with a spear in his back, the author wrote this intentionally to show that they both have a bond otherwise he would have written “As the spear stabbed Drogon and he screamed his mother also screamed in sorrow” or something along those lines, yet the author uses the phrase “scream as one” just as they had before.

“The hero leapt onto his back and drove the iron spearpoint down at the base of the dragon’s long scaled neck. Dany and Drogon screamed as one.”

Dragon Dreams

Dragon dreams are not quite the same as wolf dream, Dany doesn’t slip into Drogon’s skin and becomes him. However, in her dreams she interacts with Drogon:

“There are no more dragons, Dany thought, staring at her brother, though she did not dare say it aloud.

Yet that night she dreamt of one. Viserys was hitting her, hurting her. She was naked, clumsy with fear. She ran from him , but her body seemed thick and ungainly. He struck her again. She stumbled and fell. “You woke the dragon,” he screamed as he kicked her. “You woke the dragon, you woke the dragon.” Her thighs were slick with blood. She closed her eyes and whimpered. As if in answer, there was a hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again, Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, and in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found hers, she woke, shaking and covered with a fine sheen of sweat. She had never been so afraid …”

Later on she dreams with him again, and this time he heals her from the aches she had been feeling just the day before:

“Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.”

What’s truly interesting is that both of these examples happen prior to Dany hatching the dragons, meaning that the bond shed by Dany and Drogon goes beyond what we have seen from other bonds.

Comparison

The examples above show some similarities and differences between the warg bond and the dragonrider bond. The common similarities are that both animals react upon their owners feelings such as fear and anger. Joy was only noticed between Dany and Drogon, I have yet to go through Jon and Ghost so I have to keep my eyes peeled and see if that bond also shares similarities with those of Dany and Bran.

Additionally, both familiars also rescue their owners when they are in dangers. Both also reach a state of “oneness” with their familiars in particular instances. With a warg that state seems to be achieved when the human skinchanges his familiar this is evident from when Bran skinchanges Summer and he feels enjoyment at being in him more than himself, with a dragon lord that state seems to be when the rider is riding the dragon this is evident from when Dany rides Drogon and experiences a surge of joy and even states that if she would have fallen off it still would have been worth and further she thinks of the possibility of riding on Drogon forever in the Dothraki sea. She also states that she feels whole whiles riding Drogon which seems like a state of “oneness”. Drogon reacting to Dany’s ecstasy during sex seems to suggest he felt it too, which could mean the rider bond goes as far as even sexual pleasures, Bran has not had sex so there is still a question mark on that in the warg bond.

There is an interesting similarity in the way they both describe being part of their familiars:

Daenerys IX AGOT (Chapter 68) - This is in her prophetic dream before she wakes up from her miscarriage. After she becomes a dragon and is able to fly away, she thinks the fallowing:

And Daenerys Targaryen flew. wake the dragon The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings.

Bran I ASOS (Chapter 9) - While warged into Summer he thinks the following:

Prince of the green, prince of the wolfswood. He was strong and swift and fierce, and all the lived in the good green world went in fear of him.

To an extend they both understand the power that each animal familiar has, they aren’t cutlery little pets, these are predators at the top of the food chain, which should be feared.

To conclude I believe there is a bond between a rider and his dragon and a warg and his wolf. I don’t believe the bond can be defined by strength but rather by nature, meaning the bonds are different based on the individual relationship of riders, wargs and their animal familiars.

Miscellaneous Similarities

While doing research for these essays we came across other similarities that Dany and Bran shared which really didn’t fit into the larger themes explored throughout these essay.

Bookmarking: Ice and Fire

The first chapter of A Game of Thrones is beyond the Wall where we encounter the Others for the first time. However, the first proper POV is that of Bran’s, in it we meet the Starks but we also see the beginning of what’s to come. The direwolves which have not been seen south of the Wall for a very longtime are suddenly south of the Wall. Each of the Stark children and Jon Snow ends up with a direowlf of their own. As already noted above these warg bonds will become very important throughout the series.

Bookmarking A Game of Thrones is Daenerys Targaryen, in her last chapter and the last chapter of the book we see the birth of dragons for the first time in 150 years. The return of the dragons will also play a very important part in the life of Daenerys but as we can imagine also an important part in the War for Dawn. At the beginning of the book we have ice and at the end we have fire.

Ice and Fire

We don’t see often the title of the series named in the books themselves. The series name has only properly appeared once in Dany’s HOTU chapter when she sees Rhaegar speaking about the Prince that was Promised prophecy. The other mentions have been in Bran’s chapter and once in Davos.

The saying of ice and fire seems to be linked to an ancient magic and to nature itself. As Martin has mentioned in the pass it is important to keep in mind that the true story bares the name of Ice and Fire, the game of thrones is a distraction from this. An important distraction because it has weakened the realm but a distraction nonetheless.

Bran III ACOK

“To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater,” they said together. “Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you.” “I swear it by earth and water,” said the boy in green. “I swear it by bronze and iron,” his sister said. “We swear it by ice and fire,” they finished together.”

Bran II ASOS

Bran made a face at her. “But you just said you hated them.”

“Why can’t it be both?” Meera reached up to pinch his nose.

“Because they’re different,” he insisted. “Like night and day, or ice and fire.”

“If ice can burn,” said Jojen in his solemn voice, “then love and hate can mate. Mountain or marsh, it makes no matter. The land is one.”

Dany IV ACOK

“He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.”

In the Dark

As the Long Night quickly approaches we are reminded throughout the series that the night is dark and full of terrors. There are two scenes in Bran and Dany’s POV’s that sound very familiar:

Bran III ASOS

"By night all cloaks are black, Your Grace." - Jojen Reed

Daenerys XI ASOS

"By night, all the doors are black." - Daenerys Targaryen

In Bran’s seen Jojen is letting Bran know that in the darkness you cannot always tell friend from foe. Bran believes that the black cloaks of the Nights Watch will help them, but as Jojen tells him, there is no way of knowing that. This also goes back to a general theme of the series which is that of the chivalrous knight. That’s the ideal but as we have seen throughout the series time and again, knights are not always chivalrous or trustworthy.

In Dany’s care she is looking for the red door in her new city but like Bran she can’t tell friends from foes either. As we go on to see there will be many black doors in her city hiding her enemies.

Dany recognizes this, that she at the moment can’t tell friends from foes, Bran on the other hand has to be told this by Jojen, even with everything that has happened to him he still wants to believe. It’s interesting that both Dany and Bran were searching for a symbol of home, Dany wanted to see the red door of her dream, the one which represents the home she once had while Bran associates the Nights Watch with Jon and the family he lost.

A Royal Throne

We have see throughout he books that ebony and weirwood are used in unison. On the door of the Tobbo Mott’s workshop, in the House of the Undying and in the House of Black and White.

Tobbo Mott workshop:

“The double doors showed a hunting scene carved in ebony and weirwood. A pair of stone knights stood sentry at the entrance, armored in fanciful suits of polished red steel that transformed them into griffin and unicorn.”

The House of the Undying:

“To her right , a set of wide wooden doors had been thrown open. They were fashioned of ebony and weirwood, the black and white grains swirling and twisting in strange interwoven patterns. They were very beautiful, yet somehow frightening.”

The House of Black and White:

“At the top she found a set of carved wooden doors twelve feet high. The left-hand door was made of weirwood pale as bone, the right of gleaming ebony. In their center was a carved moon face; ebony on the weirwood side, weirwood on the ebony. The look of it reminded her somehow of the heart tree in the godswood at Winterfell.”

An interesting combination, it makes one wonder what kind of magical properties are brought together by combining these two woods. As we see later in the books Dany is seated in an ebony bench which she uses as a throne, Bran on the other hand will sits in a weirwood throne.

Dany III ADWD (Chapter 16)

"She received the merchant prince alone, seated on her bench of polished ebony..."

Bran III ADWD (Chapter 34)

"Under the hill, the broken boy sat upon a weirwood throne, listening to whispers in the dark as ravens walked up and down his arms."

Conclusion

It’s been very interesting looking at the parallels between Dany and Bran. I first started noting these parallels a little over a year ago and began to jot them down. At first there were small similarities but as I delved in deeper and with the assistance of other poster I was able to gather a long list of similarities which were quite unique to these two characters. It the surface no one would really put these characters together, Bran is a broken boy who life has now become surrounded by the magical and mystical elements of the series.

Dany on the other hand is a little more hard to peg. She is magical as the dragons show us, but she’s also a player in the political realm as we see from her time in Slaver’s Bay. Perhaps it was her diverse and usual upbringing but her character can relate to many other characters because of her varied experiences. It goes with her character in many ways because she can put herself in the shoes of other people, people whose experiences she shares.

Going back to her parallels with Bran these magical aspects that they share shows us the variances in magic in ASOIAF but they also show us the similarities, as was noted in this and the previous essays. And I think that’s important, in understanding how things might fall into place later on in the books. Where the differences are and where the common ground can be found.

[MoIaF]

I like that. Universeos (Universe but GRRM styled!) comes into existence and there are currents of magic that just run throughout Planetos. Human manage to tap into that. Think about ley lines. There are places in the world where magic is strongest, where human can tap into the natural magic easier. I think there are pockets of ley lines on Planetos--Asshai, the Shadow, Qarth, The Heart of Winter, and perhaps even Winterfell itself.

Or maybe also where the pillars of the world are. Which were created in order to protect those places from magic going wild. Or something like that.

The same black stones that are also part of the high tower and other structures? Cause damn those things were prevalent in the World Book.

There is an interesting write up from a blogger I read talking about the stone. She says:

Note, I believe there’s two types of prehistorical black stone: the greasy, oily black stone that the Seastone Chair and Asshai and Yeen are made of, and the blocky, fused black stone seen at the Five Forts and the Hightower. I think the greasy stone belonged to the Enemy, and the blocky stone belonged to the Defenders. (The mazemakers of Lorath, destroyed by an enemy from the sea, may have been Defenders who lost their war.) That the blocky black stone is fused similarly to Valyrian construction but not in the Valyrian style suggests that the Defenders may have had dragons, which could explain why there are stories of dragons all over the world dated long before the Valyrians tamed the ones living in the Fourteen Flames.

As for Westeros, the Wall, and the coming War for the Dawn, TWOIAF does have one tantalizing clue:

lol no, Yandel. Septon Barth was right. And this gives more more evidence for the theory that the Prince That Was Promised prophecy is tied in with Aegon’s Conquest — that Aegon conquered Westeros because he believed he or his descendants would be needed there to save humanity from the return of the Others. (It could also explain why Aegon married twice, because that’s how he understood the meaning of “the dragon must have three heads”.)

Septon Barth’s claim that the Valyrians came to Westeros because their priests prophesied that the Doom of Man would come out of the land beyond the narrow sea can safely be dismissed as nonsense, as can many of Barth’s queerer beliefs and suppositions. —TWOIAF

But I’m still not sure why the PTWP prophecy is a variation of Azor Ahai Reborn that seems to require Targaryen blood. I was hoping TWOIAF would explain further, maybe give more info on Daenys the Dreamer’s prophecies, but sadly Yandel and Gyldayn are skeptics and only relate Aegon’s political motivations. Well, and GRRM wasn’t going to spoil us for the big secrets of ASOIAF with that book. Guess we’ll have to wait for TWOW, with luck Sam’s Citadel studies or Archmaester Marwyn (in Dany’s POV hopefully) will tell us more

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

The same black stones that are also part of the high tower and other structures? Cause damn those things were prevalent in the World Book.

I've been toying with the idea that the LH and the Others had a marriage pact. Later, over time, this marriage pact splits into two stories: the LH who defeated the Others with some magic sword of the help of the gods or something, and the more horrifying Night's King and his Queen. They are historically the same, but have been retold so often that they appear to be two different stories.

Yea I just found the quote, from ACOK in comparison to Ashai's stone buildings.

No other buildings stood near. Black tiles covered the palace roof, many fallen or broken; the mortar between the stones was dry and crumbling. She understood now why Xaro Xhoan Daxos called it the Palace of Dust. Even Drogon seemed disquieted by the sight of it. The black dragon hissed, smoke seeping out between his sharp teeth. “Blood of my blood,” Jhogo said in Dothraki, “this is an evil place, a haunt of ghosts and maegi. See how it drinks the morning sun? Let us go before it drinks us as well.”

From the world book:

Few places in the known world are as remote as Asshai, and fewer are as forbidding. Travelers tell us that the city is built entirely of black stone: halls, hovels, temples, palaces, streets, walls, bazaars, all. Some say as well that the stone of Asshai has a greasy, unpleasant feel to it, that it seems to drink the light, dimming tapers and torches and hearth fires alike.

Im guessing they are similar material, which might link both places.

Yea that's what I also think aswell on the LH, entering crackpot territory again I think some of the FM marrying the CotF, is a good precedent for that possibility.

Or maybe also where the pillars of the world are. Which were created in order to protect those places from magic going wild. Or something like that.

There is an interesting write up from a blogger I read talking about the stone. She says:

Interesting blog, that piqued my interest now I'm going to read the world book again. :p

[BearQueen87]

Or maybe also where the pillars of the world are. Which were created in order to protect those places from magic going wild. Or something like that.

Refresh my memory....do we have pillars of the world anywhere on Planetos? K'Dath for instance?

Yea I just found the quote, from ACOK in comparison to Ashai's stone buildings.

No other buildings stood near. Black tiles covered the palace roof, many fallen or broken; the mortar between the stones was dry and crumbling. She understood now why Xaro Xhoan Daxos called it the Palace of Dust. Even Drogon seemed disquieted by the sight of it. The black dragon hissed, smoke seeping out between his sharp teeth. “Blood of my blood,” Jhogo said in Dothraki, “this is an evil place, a haunt of ghosts and maegi. See how it drinks the morning sun? Let us go before it drinks us as well.”

From the world book:

Few places in the known world are as remote as Asshai, and fewer are as forbidding. Travelers tell us that the city is built entirely of black stone: halls, hovels, temples, palaces, streets, walls, bazaars, all. Some say as well that the stone of Asshai has a greasy, unpleasant feel to it, that it seems to drink the light, dimming tapers and torches and hearth fires alike.

Im guessing they are similar material, which might link both places.

Hm. The Assahi'i seem to have gotten over to Valyria if we believe the tales that they taught the dragon lords how to tame dragons. Maybe they stopped at Qarth first and built the HotU and later the COTF-Essosi-Style took up residence.

Okay, now I'm off to read your last essay. :)

[MoIaF]

Refresh my memory....do we have pillars of the world anywhere on Planetos? K'Dath for instance?

Hm. The Assahi'i seem to have gotten over to Valyria if we believe the tales that they taught the dragon lords how to tame dragons. Maybe they stopped at Qarth first and built the HotU and later the COTF-Essosi-Style took up residence.

Okay, now I'm off to read your last essay. :)

Sorry, I meant hinges. Melissandre calls the Wall one of the hinges of the world, the Five Forta are another and perhaps K'Dath as well.

These might be places where magic is strongest. Land of Always Winter might fall under that category as well.