The Parallel Journey of Daenerys Targaryen & ... Part I

[BearQueen87]

Another great essay and an excellent conclusion to your series! :bowdown:

Thank you MOIAF! I shall celebrate by not writing anything essay-ish for an entire week!

I think it is interesting that in this comparison, they both relate to items that were given to them in the first few chapters of AGOT.

Interesting that you note this because news just came out a few days ago that in some very early (super early) draft of AGOT, Dany wasn't going to get the eggs at her wedding--it was just the horse, the three handmaids, and Jorah's books.

And speaking of, Ser Creighton and I were talking about some stuff over in RLJ and we noted, sorta together, that we don't know where Illyrio got the dragon eggs. If we think about the direwovles and the dragons as being "sent" to the Starks/Dany then who sent them? BR seems the most obvious in the case of the Starks...and BR equivalent is Quaithe (Shiera Seastar?). So might Quaithe have given the eggs to Illyrio and told him to give them to Dany? Illyrio worships money but seems to have some leaning toward R'hllorism. Would he listen to a priestess from Asshai? Random thoughts to consider.

Yet when she received Needle, she was still very much a child.

Yes and needlework was something that was more fun than real needlework. It was a way to be herself and Syrio helped her not feel so alone. But for a long time, Needle wasn't used for what swords are actually used for. I doubt Jon ever envisioned his little sister actually using that sword for killing, and certainly not the extent that Arya has.

[Hrafntýr]

BearQueen: Wow, this final essay is a real tour de force, kudos! The identity analyses are really so masterful.

I think I may have said this upthread, but want to throw out there again an alternate interpretation of what is going on with the Faceless in Arya's story. In my opinion, the apparent effort to make Arya into "no one" is something of a ruse, or perhaps more properly a test. I think that the Faceless actually want her to be able to retain her identity, even as she acquires the ability, simultaneously and paradoxically, to be no one. There are two primary reasons that I feel this: first, her amazing move of "naming" Jaqen H'ghar as her third "owed" death back at Harrenhal, which I interpret as her having penetrated to the heart of the Faceless paradox: the inner circle of the Faceless are each still someone even as they take on/embody these various personae (e.g. they still are "someone" enough to not be able to kill people that "they" know). Second is what I see as the Faceless rewarding, not punishing, Arya when she continues to act out of her Arya identity (killing Dareon, skinchanging the cat), by progressing her to the next level of training more rapidly than is "normal" in Faceless training. I could well be wrong, but I suspect that the Faceless absolutely know that Arya is still Arya, and that she's the right personality type to be able to retain her identity throughout the training (they may well know that she's retained Needle, given their advanced techniques for reading lies and deceptions). Now, this may be no less insidious, because if she fails, then she does become no one, they will have succeeded in breaking down her identity. But as your analyses and all the wonderful expansions in this thread have suggested, signs point to Arya not relinquishing her Stark identity, even as she develops even further her ability to embody other personae (as you so aptly put it, Bear Queen). I guess I wonder if the Faceless want Arya to become an empty vessel for their ends, or if the Faceless want an Arya Stark.

On the other hand, contra this interpretation: I think that the Faceless would have Arya learn that there are other ways for those on whom she would take vengeance to die than directly at her own hand: accidents can happen, situations can be set up that impel people to their own deaths. BUT: our very first chapter of GoT (after the prologue) shows us the Stark maxim that the one who passes judgment should swing the sword. If this can be taken as core to the Stark identity, then perhaps Arya will end up continuing to kill those whom she knows, contra to the stated Faceless principle.

Thank you MOIAF! I shall celebrate by not writing anything essay-ish for an entire week!

Interesting that you note this because news just came out a few days ago that in some very early (super early) draft of AGOT, Dany wasn't going to get the eggs at her wedding--it was just the horse, the three handmaids, and Jorah's books.

And speaking of, Ser Creighton and I were talking about some stuff over in RLJ and we noted, sorta together, that we don't know where Illyrio got the dragon eggs. If we think about the direwovles and the dragons as being "sent" to the Starks/Dany then who sent them? BR seems the most obvious in the case of the Starks...and BR equivalent is Quaithe (Shiera Seastar?). So might Quaithe have given the eggs to Illyrio and told him to give them to Dany? Illyrio worships money but seems to have some leaning toward R'hllorism. Would he listen to a priestess from Asshai? Random thoughts to consider.

Yes and needlework was something that was more fun than real needlework. It was a way to be herself and Syrio helped her not feel so alone. But for a long time, Needle wasn't used for what swords are actually used for. I doubt Jon ever envisioned his little sister actually using that sword for killing, and certainly not the extent that Arya has.

I loved your discussion of the touchstones, BearQueen!

On the first point, I wonder if Varys is another possible source for the eggs than Quaithe? I mean, I know that Quaithe is from Asshai and we've had statements that dragons are from Asshai, but we've just had so little information about her, as opposed to Varys, who like BR, has been seen to be pulling strings all along, and who has a known connection to Illyrio, and who apparently knows the secrets of the Red Keep, which could be another source of dragon eggs.

That last point is so powerful. The touchstones of both our heroines are in fact tools of deadly force, or at least the threat of deadly force, despite the fact that they seemed rather innocent at the time of giving. I don't think either gift-giver imagined that the recipient would ever end up using the gifts for their actual purpose, but really, what else are swords or dragons for?

[Kyoshi]

The Last Dragon and The Lone Wolf: Daenerys Targaryen and Arya Stark

Essay Number Three:

Identity

Daenerys Targaryen. Stormborn. Blood of the Dragon. Khaleesi. Mother of Dragons. The Unburnt. Slayer of Lies. Mhysa. Breaker of Chains. Queen in Meereen. Dany.

Arya Stark. Arya Horseface. Arry. Weasel. Nan. Salty. The Lone Wolf. Cat of the Canals. The Little Blind Girl. The Ugly Girl. The Night Wolf. Mercy. No One.

Like MOIAF, I feel I should hail :bowdown: Excellent concluding essay, Bear Queen!

I really like how you dissected their identities, especially in the moments when the characters seem to be transitioning between the "people" within themselves. It reminded me of The Impressionist by Hari Kunzru.

The quoted below is just phenomenal:

For Dany, I propose that she is a bit different. She might put on various costumes, but they are in service of furthering her true identity as Daenerys Targaryen. This is why, when she does try to squash (or chain) her identity in A Dance with Dragons, the results are emotionally disastrous and uncomfortable for her. In other words, where Arya embodies, Dany plays.

There is an interesting matter to consider in the above paragraph. Let’s all acknowledge that George RR Martin knows how basic English sentences work. Starting a paragraph with “she” when you have not established that the “she” in question is Arya in a preceding sentence (in fact the word “Arya” has not been used since just before the conversation with Roose began), goes against some rules of writing. Bolton is asking, point blank, for Arya’s identity and GRRM doesn’t take this time to enforce that she is Arya by stating her name, even though we have the characteristic lip bite. I think that GRRM did this deliberately. Right now, this girl is an empty vessel and is searching for her new identity. She can’t be Arya or Weasel and so she picks out a name that is very significant to the person she wants to be (Arya). Recall that Weasel the Ghost has begun to act more like Arya Stark, sassy and adept at swordplay, but because she cannot be the Arya Stark, she chooses the next best thing, Arya’s familiar, the wolf pup Nymeria who is out in the Riverlands still causing all sorts of havoc. To drive this point home, I don’t think it’s a big coincidence that Nymeria the Wolf and her pack are mentioned as menaces by Roose in the chapter right after Arya this one.

Nan’s existence is short, but she does receive a new costume in the form of a tunic with a “little bloody man” on the front and Nan picks up her new skill of being a cupbearer almost instantly, as if she had been doing it for her whole life. Nan even contemplates if Roose Bolton might take her with him when he leaves Harrnehal. It is only when she realizes that he will not that Arya Stark resurfaces and she is forced to remember just who she is.

You've assessed them so well. I agree with MOIAF in that the paths of these characters are diverging. I find it interesting that while Arya's path seems to be going in the direction of her becoming No One, Dany remembers her House words. Of course, there are still two more books and anything can happen. However, I just still find it very interesting.

The touchstones, wow... ...Interesting points from both Bear Queen and Dragon's Daughter. Both touchstones were also given to Dany and Arya by male characters [maybe because they are such masculine things :dunno: ]. Yet still, Dany's touchstone is one that is very unique. What's more, Dany's is a representation of her House. Though it is very important to note that it was given by someone to whom Dany is not particularly close. In fact, Mopatis practically sold Dany to the Dothraki khal.

Arya's on the other hand, does not really evoke anything about Stark-dom. Yet it is equally important to note that it was given to her by someone she probably loves more than anyone in her life. I don't know what to conclude about that except that it seems one can't have the 'touchstone' cake and eat it too. Or maybe there's nothing to be concluded...in any case, I just found it interesting.

And thanks for setting the bar so high!

[Kyoshi]

BearQueen: Wow, this final essay is a real tour de force, kudos! The identity analyses are really so masterful.

I think I may have said this upthread, but want to throw out there again an alternate interpretation of what is going on with the Faceless in Arya's story. In my opinion, the apparent effort to make Arya into "no one" is something of a ruse, or perhaps more properly a test. I think that the Faceless actually want her to be able to retain her identity, even as she acquires the ability, simultaneously and paradoxically, to be no one. There are two primary reasons that I feel this: first, her amazing move of "naming" Jaqen H'ghar as her third "owed" death back at Harrenhal, which I interpret as her having penetrated to the heart of the Faceless paradox: the inner circle of the Faceless are each still someone even as they take on/embody these various personae (e.g. they still are "someone" enough to not be able to kill people that "they" know). Second is what I see as the Faceless rewarding, not punishing, Arya when she continues to act out of her Arya identity (killing Dareon, skinchanging the cat), by progressing her to the next level of training more rapidly than is "normal" in Faceless training. I could well be wrong, but I suspect that the Faceless absolutely know that Arya is still Arya, and that she's the right personality type to be able to retain her identity throughout the training (they may well know that she's retained Needle, given their advanced techniques for reading lies and deceptions). Now, this may be no less insidious, because if she fails, then she does become no one, they will have succeeded in breaking down her identity. But as your analyses and all the wonderful expansions in this thread have suggested, signs point to Arya not relinquishing her Stark identity, even as she develops even further her ability to embody other personae (as you so aptly put it, Bear Queen). I guess I wonder if the Faceless want Arya to become an empty vessel for their ends, or if the Faceless want an Arya Stark.

On the other hand, contra this interpretation: I think that the Faceless would have Arya learn that there are other ways for those on whom she would take vengeance to die than directly at her own hand: accidents can happen, situations can be set up that impel people to their own deaths. BUT: our very first chapter of GoT (after the prologue) shows us the Stark maxim that the one who passes judgment should swing the sword. If this can be taken as core to the Stark identity, then perhaps Arya will end up continuing to kill those whom she knows, contra to the stated Faceless principle.

That's a very interesting idea. It makes me question the Faceless Men and their motives even more. Every time someone comes up with something insightful, I find myself seeking more answers.

[BearQueen87]

BearQueen: Wow, this final essay is a real tour de force, kudos! The identity analyses are really so masterful.

Thank you!

I think I may have said this upthread, but want to throw out there again an alternate interpretation of what is going on with the Faceless in Arya's story. In my opinion, the apparent effort to make Arya into "no one" is something of a ruse, or perhaps more properly a test. I think that the Faceless actually want her to be able to retain her identity, even as she acquires the ability, simultaneously and paradoxically, to be no one. There are two primary reasons that I feel this: first, her amazing move of "naming" Jaqen H'ghar as her third "owed" death back at Harrenhal, which I interpret as her having penetrated to the heart of the Faceless paradox: the inner circle of the Faceless are each still someone even as they take on/embody these various personae (e.g. they still are "someone" enough to not be able to kill people that "they" know). Second is what I see as the Faceless rewarding, not punishing, Arya when she continues to act out of her Arya identity (killing Dareon, skinchanging the cat), by progressing her to the next level of training more rapidly than is "normal" in Faceless training. I could well be wrong, but I suspect that the Faceless absolutely know that Arya is still Arya, and that she's the right personality type to be able to retain her identity throughout the training (they may well know that she's retained Needle, given their advanced techniques for reading lies and deceptions). Now, this may be no less insidious, because if she fails, then she does become no one, they will have succeeded in breaking down her identity. But as your analyses and all the wonderful expansions in this thread have suggested, signs point to Arya not relinquishing her Stark identity, even as she develops even further her ability to embody other personae (as you so aptly put it, Bear Queen). I guess I wonder if the Faceless want Arya to become an empty vessel for their ends, or if the Faceless want an Arya Stark.

That is a fascinating way to look at all of this. You know what it makes me think of? Black Ops or MI-5/6 in Britain. Spooks, when on the job, are expected to *be* the job. You're part of a unit serving a purpose and you have to tuck away in the back of your mind who you are outside of the job. Once you're off the clock then you can "be you"....except, of course, that the "real you" is probably lying like crazy to those you love who have zero idea what you do for a living. When you go through training in these specialized fields, at least my understanding of it (which might be influenced from TV), you go through rigorous psychological testing to make sure that your psyche can handle having to switch back and forth all the time. You have to become adept at lying--much like the lying/truth game Arya and the Waif play.

Like MOIAF, I feel I should hail :bowdown: Excellent concluding essay, Bear Queen!

Thank you!

Both touchstones were also given to Dany and Arya by male characters [maybe because they are such masculine things :dunno: ].

Perfect gifts for two nontraditional females!

I'll point out here that there is another male/female theme that runs through Arya/Dany and their touchstones...men try to take them all the time. Lommy and Hot pie harass Arry the Orphan Boy on the road to fork over Needle; Polliver actually succeeds in taking Needle; the Kindly Man tries to remove Needle from the picture altogether. Viserys tries to steal Dany's eggs until Jorah stops him in AGOT; Xaro wants one dragon from Dany for his help in Qarth; the Masters of Astapor want Drogon in exchange for the 8,000 Unsullied; Quentyn tries to steal a dragon.

[Seams]

Arya Stark. Arya Horseface. Arry. Weasel. Nan. Salty. The Lone Wolf. Cat of the Canals. The Little Blind Girl. The Ugly Girl. The Night Wolf. Mercy. No One.

Identity Study: Arya

Arya does all the things orphans of Kings Landing do: she catches pigeons (and even eats a few raw), ... These lessons of becoming whatever (or rather, whomever) are needed for survival is something Arya carries with her.

...her new (very brief) identity is not even human. Shes a sheep; she sits in a pen with other sheep...

Without Needle, Arya arrives at Harrenhal and becomes one more creature, something even less significant than a lamb: Weasel, the mouse. ...But here we have tiny, scared animals that couldnt hold their own against wolves, lions, stags, or any other animals that double as a sigil.

On my second time through the audiobooks, I was struck that Arya is in this pigeon-catching/eating/selling (except she loses a pigeon in her belt before she can sell it) stage just as Sansa becomes the "Little Bird" captive of the Red Keep. We find out later that Petyr Baelish has a flock of sheep and almost nothing else at his ancestral home on The Fingers. These symbolic identities could show that both Sansa and Arya are feeling like hostages - except that Arya is a free-range bird and Sansa is "caged". In the discussion of grey worms you pointed out that Arya and her traveling companions have to scratch in the earth to find worms - very much a behavior one would expect to see of a bird with access to the open barnyard.

Speaking of barnyards, maybe this association of Arya with free-range chickens helps to explain the risk under which she is still living: even free-range chickens are being raised for eggs and meat, once someone catches them. It could also support and help to clarify the butcher motif insight you provided in a previous comment - that the people in Arya and Dany's storylines are surrounded by slaughter and bloodshed, like animals destined for butchering.

I realize, though, that the spies who work for Varys are known as little birds. So there is a flip side to being fragile and vulnerable: if you survive, you can learn by observing and listening.

My reading was that Arya's evolution or "coming-of-age" story gets into higher gear, perhaps, as she moves onto the weasel and mouse identities. Her thought process in using the name Weasel implies that she can't think of another name for a girl, which is hard to believe. Weasel, as we all know, is the name of a girl who can't stop crying after losing her family and community and witnessing wanton bloodshed inflicted by Gregor Clegane and his men. Arya has gone through similar traumatic events and doesn't show signs of a nervous breakdown, but she takes the name of someone who has wept at great length. Maybe this identity is like some of Arya's murders: she seems to take on an identity for awhile and then kills someone representing that identity when she is ready to move on. She mourns by taking on the identity of a crying girl instead of weeping her own tears. In this case, she does not kill the girl Weasel, but she does make Weese, her mean boss in the kitchens of Harrenhal, one of her chosen deaths at the hands of Jaqen H'ghar.

Both the weasel ("Fierce as a wolverine," is part of the internal pep-talk Arya recites) and the mouse (sigil of the hedge knight, Shadrich, who turns up much later in Brienne and Sansa's stories) may have some connection to strength or cunning and may show Arya starting to show signs of growth and self-awareness. My first thought of the mouse identity, however, was that Tommen's Ser Pounce catches a mouse and Lady Whiskers takes it from him. So maybe this is still an entirely vulnerable identity for Arya, as you outline in your excellent essay

I'm taking things out of order, but you point out another detail that is important for Dany and Arya's shared stories:

The first of Aryas costume changes is a haircut.

When Yoren had dragged her into that alley she'd thought he meant to kill her, but the sour old man had only held her tight, sawing through her mats and tangles with his dagger. She remembered how the breeze sent the fistfuls of dirty brown hair skittering across the paving stones, toward the sept where her father had died.

Afterward he told her that from there to Winterfell she'd be Arry the orphan boy.

(Arya I, ACOK)

Arya loses her hair right after her father dies. Dany's hair is burned off in the fire in which her dragons are born. We know how important hair is in ASOIAF - Jon Arryn and Ned Stark figured out the problem with the paternity of Cersei's children because of their hair color. And I was about to lose my mind from hearing the refrain, "a bear, a bear all covered with hair," every time someone in the audiobook sang the song about the maiden fair. This loss of hair for Arya and Dany seems to coincide with the loss of identity and the rebirth of new identities for each girl.

The northern men take the castle and Roose Bolton takes over as protector of Harrnehal. Weasel, both the mouse and the ghost, are put aside and Arya picks up her next identity: Nan.

It goes without saying, I guess, that Arya here is taking on the name of her wolf AND of her storytelling nursemaid at the same time. By saying that he mother gave her the name Nymeria, is Arya identifying herself (in her own mind) as the mother of Nymeria the wolf? That would mean we have Mother of Dragons over in Essos and Mother of a Wolf in Westeros. Old Nan's stories provide important insights for the Stark storylines, and it seems significant that Arya names herself after her favorit storyteller at this stage, even if she uses the name only briefly. Does it signal her entrance into the world of magic?

A Storm of Swords presents us with an interesting case in that for the most part, Arya stays Arya. In fact, we might even venture to say that she becomes more Arya-ish over the course of the book than in the previous one. She adopts few names along her adventures, either with the Brotherhood Without Banner or with the Hound. Arya calls herself Squab at one point, but its a name the BwB give her in jest and not one she embodies. The costume change that is forced upon her by Lady Smallwood is rejected almost immediately by Arya as she does not wish to be dressed in pretty dresses and does not wish to be a lady: "In times like these, we all must make do as best we can." Lady Smallwood fussed at the bodice of the gown. "Now you look a proper young lady." I'm not a lady, Arya wanted to tell her, I'm a wolf. (Arya IV, ASOS)

To me, these stages represent Arya in one of her hostage phases again. Squab is another bird name (and a game bird, at that), perhaps harkening back to Arya's bird stage before Yoren cuts her hair. In the BwB, she is recognized by Harwin, son of the former master of horses at Winterfell. (Remember her first murder, with Needle, is the stable boy at King's landing, representing her escape from the clutches of her enemies and symbolically killing her identity as Arya Horseface.) So I think you're right about her reverting to her Arya identity for awhile in ASOS, but she's not happy with the result of this reversion, as it means she becomes a pawn in the Game of Thrones.

Strange, isn't it, that The Hound sort of sets her free from this hostage situation? He's trying to take her hostage for his own purposes, of course. Although The Hound knows who she is, too, so she doesn't take a new name, she does get a disguise as she and he pretend to be farmers delivering food to the Tully/Frey wedding feast. After the Red Wedding, the hostage scenario seems to fall apart and (I think) she becomes a sort of squire for The Hound, as I mentioned in a previous post.

While reading the description in your essay about Dany freeing herself from her tokar when Drogon comes to the fighting pit, a potential common link dawned on me for this comparison earlier in the thread:

The Hound tightly wraps Arya in a cloak at night to keep her from running away or killing him; in Meereen, Dany feels compelled to wrap herself in a Tokar which she finds completely impractical, immobilizing one hand and requiring small steps.

I'm guessing that Arya and Dany have both been in cocoons. Arya emerges from her cocoon and goes onto Braavos; Dany emerges from her cocoon and literally flies away on the back of Drogon.

It is when Arya reaches Braavos and begins her time at the House of Black and White that we begin to see the deconstruction of her identity really take over her entire storyline. What happens to Arya is Braavos I can only describe as an almost total erasure of self. I hesitate to use this word because it has a host of negative connotations, but if we think of the Faceless Men as a cult then Aryas emotional storyline is one that happens in the real world when someone must fork over not only ones possessions but give up their identity to be part of the group mentality. In order to be one of them you must stop being you. The journey to this unremarkable, malleable, void of a human first begins with Arya acknowledging who she is, truly.

From here, she getsyou guessed ita costume change and this one is a reflection of her new no one self. The garment is unremarkable, totally devoid of personality, color and anything that would remind Arya of a former identity. If we continue to think about the FM and HoBaW as a cult, then the way that they try to break Arya is through repetitive questions and by giving up possessions that tied Arya to her former world:

Reading your essay, it struck me how much this summary sounds like Jon's experience in joining the Night's Watch. I know our point is to compare Dany and Arya, so I don't want to get too far into this line of thinking, but I think it's significant that Arya kills the singer/Night's Watch deserter, Dareon, as she is under the tutelage of the House of Black and White. I am guessing it's also significant that Jon's "brother," Samwell Tarly, is thrown into the canal where Arya has discarded all of the relics associated with her old identity.

Great essay, once again! Thanks for providing so much food for thought.

[BearQueen87]

My reading was that Arya's evolution or "coming-of-age" story gets into higher gear, perhaps, as she moves onto the weasel and mouse identities. Her thought process in using the name Weasel implies that she can't think of another name for a girl, which is hard to believe. Weasel, as we all know, is the name of a girl who can't stop crying after losing her family and community and witnessing wanton bloodshed inflicted by Gregor Clegane and his men. Arya has gone through similar traumatic events and doesn't show signs of a nervous breakdown, but she takes the name of someone who has wept at great length.

Yes I absolutely agree. Arya wouldn't have trouble coming up with names. In fact, I think her taking the Weasel name and her taking the Nan name can be read as contrasting parallels. Both are the first names that spring to mind, but they are radically different. One is of a scared little girl who just want to hide, the other is associated with a wolf.

And I was about to lose my mind from hearing the refrain, "a bear, a bear all covered with hair," every time someone in the audiobook sang the song about the maiden fair.

all black and brown and covered with hair! (Dany of course has her own hairy bear...something she remarks on a bit in AGOT. Seriously, every time she describes Jorah it is as a series of contrasts "not handsome, but fit and strong; not handsome but his smiles give her comfort; Hairy everywhere but his head, but muscular; speaks and acts like a Westerosi knight, but dresses like a Dothraki warrior). Ok, that's BQ's Jorah moment of the day...back to the essay...

I tried to work in the hair into my essay but it was getting rather...uh...lengthy. I do think the hair is important since Dany loses it twice. If I had managed to work it would have looked like this: there is an idea that you come into this world naked, hairless, and helpless. I think losing their hair goes along with the idea of a rebirth. The Arya Stark who once was the girl of Winterfell died (in fact in AGOT there is this line: But Arya's life was gone and this happens literally seconds before Yoren starts to chop off her hair) and a new Arya, the one who can move from identity to identity like a waterdancer moves from position to position, fluid and sure, is born. Dany, the scared girl who lived in Pentos "died on the Dothraki sea and the girl who was born..." as Illyrio tells Tyrion in ADWD.

FWIW, we have another character we'll be discussing at a future date who goes through the same thing: Cersei and the Walk of Shame that beings with a literal stripping down, including shaving of her hair.

Reading your essay, it struck me how much this summary sounds like Jon's experience in joining the Night's Watch. I know our point is to compare Dany and Arya, so I don't want to get too far into this line of thinking, but I think it's significant that Arya kills the singer/Night's Watch deserter, Dareon, as she is under the tutelage of the House of Black and White. I am guessing it's also significant that Jon's "brother," Samwell Tarly, is thrown into the canal where Arya has discarded all of the relics associated with her old identity.

Since you brought Jon up...the clothing he is given when he joins the NW is similar, at least in intent, to Arya's servants garb in the HoBaW. Both are designed to make you part of a group and make you "be the job" and not an individual. You're brothers in arms, not just "Jon Snow" anymore. And any attempt to break from this isn't met well, ie: Mance Rayder and his red silk in his cloak.

Great essay, once again! Thanks for providing so much food for thought.

Thank you!

[Seams]

Reading your essay, it struck me how much this summary sounds like Jon's experience in joining the Night's Watch. I know our point is to compare Dany and Arya, so I don't want to get too far into this line of thinking, but I think it's significant that Arya kills the singer/Night's Watch deserter, Dareon, as she is under the tutelage of the House of Black and White. I am guessing it's also significant that Jon's "brother," Samwell Tarly, is thrown into the canal where Arya has discarded all of the relics associated with her old identity.

Since you brought Jon up...the clothing he is given when he joins the NW is similar, at least in intent, to Arya's servants garb in the HoBaW. Both are designed to make you part of a group and make you "be the job" and not an individual. You're brothers in arms, not just "Jon Snow" anymore. And any attempt to break from this isn't met well, ie: Mance Rayder and his red silk in his cloak.

Yes! I was thinking about Mance's cloak with the red silk (which came to the wildling woman from Essos, somehow) when you cited the passage about Arya's robe:

Arya picks up two more identities. One is another name, with new clothing, a new persona, and a new life: Cat of the Canals is just an ordinary orphan girl in “a cloak, a patched faded thing of the sort an orphan might wear.”

The other is meant to be her new true self, an acolyte in the House of the Undying: “her servants garb was taken away and she was given a robe to wear, a robe of black and white as buttery soft as the old red blanket she had once had at Winterfell.”

GRRM doesn't throw in references to colors without having a reason, so the red blanket seemed like a very significant association here. In addition to the Night's Watch association with the black of her robe, I wonder whether we are supposed to consider the King's Guard as having something in common with the HoBaW? Is the HoBaW a hybrid of those two, or is it an exaggerated or parody version of the black and white brotherhoods back in Westeros? And is the red associated with Melisandre and her religion, or is that a different red (just as rubies and garnets seem to have different properties in ASOIAF . . . )?

I would love it if Arya thinking about red connects her to Mance Rayder and foreshadows her eventual desertion of the Faceless Men. On the other hand, Mance's standard-issue black cloak represented what he didn't like about life in the Night's Watch, and Arya seems to like the black and white robe and imagines the red blanket based on the unaltered robe. And then she does kill that deserter. Hmm. Maybe not signs of a direction I'm going to like.

I was starting to wonder, too, whether Arya throwing all of her belongings in the canal had any connection to the ceremony of the Drowned God? And this led me to an older question I've had on a back burner for some time. When Raff the Sweetling killed the dyer's apprentice Lommy Greenhands, were we supposed to think, "What's dead can never dye"?

[Hrafntýr]

<snip>

Arya's on the other hand, does not really evoke anything about Stark-dom. Yet it is equally important to note that it was given to her by someone she probably loves more than anyone in her life. I don't know what to conclude about that except that it seems one can't have the 'touchstone' cake and eat it too. Or maybe there's nothing to be concluded...in any case, I just found it interesting.

And thanks for setting the bar so high!

It's a minor point, but Needle is noted to bear the mark of Mikken, thus it's Winterfell-specific. I can't remember which character noted that it was probably one of the last blades to bear Mikken's mark.

[BearQueen87]

It's a minor point, but Needle is noted to bear the mark of Mikken, thus it's Winterfell-specific. I can't remember which character noted that it was probably one of the last blades to bear Mikken's mark.

Doesn't Ned say, "this is Mikken's work...my own children are being armed by own smithy and I know nothing of it.." or something. (gods, that might be show creep, I'm not sure)

@Seams

Nice idea about black, white and red. I'm not quite sure what to make of it except that they are all evocative colors and highly symbolic.

Black can mean death and decay, but in GRRM's world it's also the color of the NW--the knights of the realm who are doing the actual protecting.

White can mean purity and innocence, but in GRRMs world it's also the color of the KG--the knights of the realm who, for the most part, seem to be rather corrupt and inept. As Sansa tells Ser Meryn Trant (?) "you are no true knight"

Red is just a confusing array of things--blood, war, love, and fire. This last one is even more dualistic with fire being both life and death.

I was starting to wonder, too, whether Arya throwing all of her belongings in the canal had any connection to the ceremony of the Drowned God? And this led me to an older question I've had on a back burner for some time. When Raff the Sweetling killed the dyer's apprentice Lommy Greenhands, were we supposed to think, "What's dead can never dye"?

Hm. Well there are no other gods on the Iron Islands, right? They just worship Cthulhu The Drowned God...so in that regard the Drowned God would have his place as one of the many faces.

[Kyoshi]

It's a minor point, but Needle is noted to bear the mark of Mikken, thus it's Winterfell-specific. I can't remember which character noted that it was probably one of the last blades to bear Mikken's mark.

Thanks for that. I remember now.

[Kingmonkey]

I found this thread while poking around for some Dany/Bran parallels that BearQueen87 mentioned over in R+L=J. Some fascinating stuff and great work from BQ.

On the subject of a sense of home, my feeling is that for both Dany and Arya, home is the past. Dany's obsession is with returning to Westeros and reclaiming the past while Arya believes the past (and home) to be gone. The mutability of their identities, which BQ covers most excellently, seems like a reaction to this. Dany changes who she is in an attempt to negotiate a way back to Westeros, to queendom, but by trying to reinvent herself rather than rediscover herself. Arya's progress at least at the moment reflects her sense that the past is gone, and she thinks she needs to become "no-one". For both of them, the path home is really to rediscover who they actually are rather than trying to be something else -- to embrace the future rather than looking at the past.

Another Winterfell link to Needle to add to Hrafntýr's is the name. The needlework pun ties back to her time learning side by side with Sansa. It may be a very different kind of needlework now, but it represents a development of her past reshaped by the person she's growing into.

[Hrafntýr]

I want to throw out there, before we leave Dany/Arya, another possible similarity that I sometimes feel marks their stories. It's more of a meta-level similarity. In my view, Dany and Arya are the two characters whose thought-processes are most often masked by GRRM. I'm not saying that we aren't often privy to their inner thoughts, but it strikes me that these two characters, possibly more than any others, often make decisions, sometimes spectacular ones, without revealing their decision making process to the reader (I'm thinking of things like Dany entering the pyre, "dracarys," Arya's naming of Jaqen or killing of Dareon). I suppose that one could argue that some of these are purely for the sake of surprising the reader, but I wonder if they might also suggest a sort of "intuitive" leap of intelligence on the part of these heroines, that they are subject to flashes of insight. I am not at all suggesting that they don't also have plain old smarts to think through a decision, but I feel like they surprise me more within their own povs than do other main pov characters.

btw, I was wrong about the quote about Needle being one of the last swords Mikken forged, which was in fact about the sword from Eddard's tomb that Osha is carrying. But Needle definitely carries Mikken's mark, and Arya herself notes it in AFfC, in the scene when she's contemplating throwing Needle into the canal, trying to convince herself that "it's just a sword." And Kingmonkey, I liked how you linked Needle back to needlework sessions with Sansa.

[MoIaF]

I found this thread while poking around for some Dany/Bran parallels that BearQueen87 mentioned over in R+L=J. Some fascinating stuff and great work from BQ.

I created a thread documenting the similarities between Dany and Bran, you can find it here.

[SeanF]

I want to throw out there, before we leave Dany/Arya, another possible similarity that I sometimes feel marks their stories. It's more of a meta-level similarity. In my view, Dany and Arya are the two characters whose thought-processes are most often masked by GRRM. I'm not saying that we aren't often privy to their inner thoughts, but it strikes me that these two characters, possibly more than any others, often make decisions, sometimes spectacular ones, without revealing their decision making process to the reader (I'm thinking of things like Dany entering the pyre, "dracarys," Arya's naming of Jaqen or killing of Dareon). I suppose that one could argue that some of these are purely for the sake of surprising the reader, but I wonder if they might also suggest a sort of "intuitive" leap of intelligence on the part of these heroines, that they are subject to flashes of insight. I am not at all suggesting that they don't also have plain old smarts to think through a decision, but I feel like they surprise me more within their own povs than do other main pov characters.

I agree. There are gaps in Dany's story in particular. What was she thinking or doing on the pyre? How did Reznak, the Shavepate, or the Green Grace enter her service? Why is she waiting for Khal Jhaqo at the end of ADWD, rather than taking off on Drogon?

Partly, it is to retain the element of surprise. Partly, I think to leave the reader to speculate (some writers like to tell the reader exactly why a character acts in the way he/she does, but Martin isn't one of them).

[BearQueen87]

I agree. There are gaps in Dany's story in particular. What was she thinking or doing on the pyre? How did Reznak, the Shavepate, or the Green Grace enter her service? Why is she waiting for Khal Jhaqo at the end of ADWD, rather than taking off on Drogon?

Partly, it is to retain the element of surprise. Partly, I think to leave the reader to speculate (some writers like to tell the reader exactly why a character acts in the way he/she does, but Martin isn't one of them).

The first and the last are the most intriguing to me. The second--Reznak, the Shavepate, and the GG entering her service--seems to fit a theme of Dany in Meereen in general which is that she doesn't know who to trust because she doesn't know any of these people. GRRM didn't want us to know Reznak, the SP, and the GG either so he moved Dany's story forward by a few months after we left her in ASOS.

I would really like to know what was going through her head during the pyre

[MoIaF]

Announcement

There has been an update to the schedule. SeanF has divided his essay into two parts and so all essays have been pushed back a week.

NEW SCHEDULE

• Dany and Arianne (mini parallel) - Queen Alysanne
  

Essay I - January 25, 2014

• Dany and Bran - Queen Alysanne / MoIaF
  

Essay I - February 1, 2015

Essay II - February 8, 2015

Essay III - February 15, 2015

• Dany and Cersei - SeanF / Suzanna Stormbirn / JonCon's Red Beard
  

Essay I.I - February 22, 2015

Essay I.II - March 1, 2015

Essay II - March 8, 2015

Essay III - March 15, 2015

• Dany and Jon - MoIaF
  

Essay I - March 22, 2015

Essay II - March 29, 2015

Essay III - April 5, 2015

• Dany and Ned - Parwan
  

Essay I - April 12, 2015

Essay II - April 19, 2015

Essay III - April 26, 2015

• Dany and Sansa - Kyoshi
  

Essay I - May 3, 2015

Essay II - May 10, 2015

Essay III - Mary 17, 2015

• Dany and Stannis (mini parallel) - QueenAlysanne
  

Essay I - May 24, 2015

[Parwan]

BearQueen: Wow, this final essay is a real tour de force, kudos! The identity analyses are really so masterful.

I think I may have said this upthread, but want to throw out there again an alternate interpretation of what is going on with the Faceless in Arya's story.

1. In my opinion, the apparent effort to make Arya into "no one" is something of a ruse, or perhaps more properly a test. I think that the Faceless actually want her to be able to retain her identity, even as she acquires the ability, simultaneously and paradoxically, to be no one. There are two primary reasons that I feel this:

2. first, her amazing move of "naming" Jaqen H'ghar as her third "owed" death back at Harrenhal, which I interpret as her having penetrated to the heart of the Faceless paradox: the inner circle of the Faceless are each still someone even as they take on/embody these various personae (e.g. they still are "someone" enough to not be able to kill people that "they" know).

3. Second is what I see as the Faceless rewarding, not punishing, Arya when she continues to act out of her Arya identity (killing Dareon, skinchanging the cat), by progressing her to the next level of training more rapidly than is "normal" in Faceless training.

4. I could well be wrong, but I suspect that the Faceless absolutely know that Arya is still Arya, and that she's the right personality type to be able to retain her identity throughout the training (they may well know that she's retained Needle, given their advanced techniques for reading lies and deceptions). Now, this may be no less insidious, because if she fails, then she does become no one, they will have succeeded in breaking down her identity. But as your analyses and all the wonderful expansions in this thread have suggested, signs point to Arya not relinquishing her Stark identity, even as she develops even further her ability to embody other personae (as you so aptly put it, Bear Queen). I guess I wonder if the Faceless want Arya to become an empty vessel for their ends, or if the Faceless want an Arya Stark.

On the other hand, contra this interpretation: I think that the Faceless would have Arya learn that there are other ways for those on whom she would take vengeance to die than directly at her own hand: accidents can happen, situations can be set up that impel people to their own deaths. BUT: our very first chapter of GoT (after the prologue) shows us the Stark maxim that the one who passes judgment should swing the sword. If this can be taken as core to the Stark identity, then perhaps Arya will end up continuing to kill those whom she knows, contra to the stated Faceless principle.

...

1. I don’t think that this theory fits with the religion of the Faceless Men. I maintain the they are true believers. They phrase things in terms of what is required by the gods.

2. Jaqen H’ghar calls her “evil child” for her action. He does not do this because his mother and friends will weep for him back in Braavos. He doesn’t do it for any personal reason. Indeed, this same FM later tells her that Jaqen H’ghar is dead. There is no sorrow in this statement. The important point is that “I have promises to keep.”

Faceless Men are able to kill people that "they" know. Jaqen H'ghar says, "A man's sire is long dead, but did he live, and did you know his name, he would die by your command."

3. Blinding someone is a punishment, not a reward. The priest found it necessary to impose this disciplinary measure on the newcomer sooner than he would have on most trainees. I don't think that this shows that Arya is being moved along faster than other youngsters.

4. Even “the blind girl” doesn’t “know that Arya is still Arya.” Thus, I don’t think the FM know this. Interestingly, the knowledge still exists; mostly, the animals have it. The night wolf knows the “morning prayer,” listing those to be killed. The wolf also knows that it is snowing in the riverlands. And then there is the cat in Pynto’s: “‘You know me, don’t you?’ she whispered. Cats were not fooled by mummer’s moles.” It seems to me that this animal remembers more than just Cat of the Canals. He follows Arya home, and she sees the kindly man through his eyes. She does not tell the priest about either the wolf or the cat. This is a good decision. The worshippers of Him of Many Faces truly want the believers to be no one. The kindly man expresses things well when he asks, “And are you a god, to decide who should live and who should die?”

But perhaps “decision” isn’t quite the right word to use here.

Is Arya Stark of Winterfell resisting conversion? One might put the matter this way. One might also say that it is her subconscious that is doing the resisting. Or perhaps someone or something is reaching out to her. There is a similarity to Dany (and to Bran, more on that later.) Dany certainly didn’t plan for, or even anticipate, her dragon dreams. The first one was very frightening to her. Perhaps it was her subconscious that brought forth the dreams. Perhaps it was some kind of family or racial memory. Maybe something was reaching out to her.

Another similarity: Dany will face an attempt to convert her to a “true religion.” Like Arya, she will have reason to ally herself with a powerful group. The red priests, however, will want “the world’s deliverer” to embrace the worship of the Lord of Light. There is little chance that Daenerys will be happy to do this. It will be interesting to see how things work out. (There is also a comparison to be made with Stannis and his relationship with the red priestess. This is something else to consider later.)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

BearQueen! You are a rockstar as always with your essay's :) I'm sorry I have been so busy at work, but Ill catch up soon :)

[jon rhaegar stark]

totally off topic but I just want to know what happened to dany poll thread started by JCRB...

I woke up and its gone