The Will to Change: Rereading Sandor

[Milady of York]

Although he bears terrible burn scars on his face, these do not in themselves hold meaning in designating Sandor as a trauma victim. Rather, the scars act like markers, pointing to a deeper pathology that only the man himself can reveal. To put it another way, the wound that Sandor carries is not represented by his burns, but in the effects it generates: his ingrained cynical outlook on the world; the anger that is always so close to the surface; the pronounced aversion and disgust shown towards the institution of knighthood; and last, but certainly not least, the “desire” to kill his brother. This doesn’t operate in the usual manner of wish and resolve that structures normal human desires. It is instead something unique to Sandor’s trauma, a desire that he is compelled to repeat, a kind of coping strategy that enables him to function.

____________________

What Sandor testifies to here is not simply the personal injustice done to him by his brother’s depravity and his father’s complicity, but also to the institutionalised violence that is masked under a show of chivalry and solemn vows, one that has considerable social and moral implications, as evidenced by Rhaegar’s knighting of the Mountain. Whether or not Sandor personally witnessed the latter event is not known, but it doesn’t lessen the impact it has on his psychic trauma, acting, I would suggest, as a double wound that hardens over time into the Hound persona.

Excellent analysis, Brashcandy, just excellent! Loved this combination of literary analysis and psychology.

Erika Marder’s words are so accurate, and I can say from my own training that many in my area would agree with her conclusions, especially this bit:

There is no specific set of physical manifestations identifying trauma, and it almost invariably produces repeated, uncontrollable, and incalculable effects that endure long after its ostensible “precipitating cause.”

Wounds of the soul was what one colleague used to call trauma informally, and also used to emphasise on the circumstances rather than the detonator itself by quoting that “trauma does not have to occur by abuse alone,” that it wasn’t uncommon for the circumstances to be more traumatic regardless of the detonator, citing the examples of abuse committed by close family members as cases in point. We were also encouraged to pay attention to the evolution of well-adjusted survivors in contraposition to those not so well-adjusted for clues on what influenced a desirable adjustment level. Empirically, a factor that appears with regularity in all my cases as crucial for adjustment is the one I’m now recognising in Laub and Felman’s testimony theory you cite:

[…] the listener to trauma comes to be a participant and a co-owner of the traumatic event.

Through his very listening, he comes to partially experience trauma in himself. The relation of the victim to the event of the trauma, therefore, impacts on the relation of the listener to it, and the latter comes to feel the bewilderment, injury, confusion, dread and conflicts that

the trauma victim feels.

As I saw it from real cases, having someone to share the burden with and provide some emotional support, or at the very least to have an outlet if there’s nobody, does work in making it easier to carry on and eventually adjust optimally. Silence is as counterproductive as no support, and if both combine, we have our worst-case scenarios.

For Sandor, all negative factors come together to screw him over multiple times. Following the principle that trauma never occurs by abuse alone, you mention that in addition to his burning and paternal complicity in it, his brother’s knighting acts as a double wound on his psyche. That’s precisely the reality, and to that I’d say the wound is actually a triple wound, a betrayal in three stages, in which Gregor earning his spurs is just the last and definite.

The first betrayal would be Gregor’s behaviour. He was the elder brother, the big and able-bodied one that was not only supposed but expected to be for little Sandor what all big brothers are: care for him, give support to him, play with him, be a sort of mentor and role model; in sum, be what Jon and Robb are to Bran. And he failed in the role, horribly so. It wouldn’t have hurt so much if he were just a distant brother, grouchy and mostly out of home, or that he’d spanked or clouted Sandor in the ear for taking his toy knight, as children always fight over toys and it doesn’t go beyond yelling, kicking, hitting, etc. But Gregor tried to kill Sandor for a toy, thus giving the message that his life wasn’t worth spit. It took three grown men to separate him from his little brother, and that makes his intentions obvious: he wasn’t going to stop at just marring his face with fire. So, first key circumstance and first wound: it was his brother; it hurt because it was his brother, his own blood.

Then came the second betrayal, when his father decided to protect Gregor and victimise Sandor a second time by giving no support and then silencing him. By lying for the sake of the perpetrator, he failed in his duty as a knight and as a parent to protect a defenceless child and in his duty to chastise the misbehaviour of the other child, because Gregor might be all big and scary, but he was still a minor and dependent on his father’s authority. And worse still, he became complicit in a crime, the murder attempt on one of his own children. Independently of whether the second Ser Clegane was himself abusive or just a timorous man afraid of scandal, he’d have been more mindful of social conventions and more eager for advancement given that he, unlike his sons who are nobles by birth, was born a commoner and not too long ago he’d been just the kennelmaster’s boy, and he made Sandor the sacrificial lamb to the system, selling him out for a knighthood essentially, and that knighthood was for the murderous son. Little wonder, therefore, that his younger has such a deep-seated contempt for knights and titles. Second key circumstance and second wound: it was his father, the one that could’ve attenuated the blow of the first coming from his brother, but added more of his own instead.

And the third betrayal, that of the system of knighthood that so flamboyantly proclaims Honour and Glory, and is so rotten on the inside. This also might have been doubly hurtful again because, on one hand he was in the same position as Bran, the same age, still eagerly gobbling up tales of Florian the Fool, Aemon the Dragonknight and Arthur Dayne and asking for more, and this isn’t just an inference from the fact that he was playing with a toy knight but GRRM has confirmed it too, and while that’s a naïveté one can grow out of as one ages, for him it was a brutal awakening not that different from Bran losing his mobility because of a knight of the Kingsguard he wants to belong in or Sansa being beaten by the knights she dreams of.

I’ve wondered if Sandor was present in Gregor’s knighting, and whilst I tend to think it’s probable, in the end it doesn’t matter if he was or not, the effect is the same even if he wasn’t, for he’d have heard no end of proud talk and bragging at the Clegane castle or amongst the retainers. Because being knighted by the Prince of Dragonstone is no small matter, as Jorah and Selmy say in ASOS Daenerys II and ADWD Barristan III:

“There was no higher honour than to receive your knighthood from the Prince of Dragonstone.”

. . . . .

On the other hand, a young knight’s repute derived at least in part from the honor of the man who conferred knighthood on him.

And this is for the grandson of a kennelmaster, an incredible social success that high lords would envy. We can suspect deference towards Tywin might’ve had something to do, directly or indirectly, as this is a bannerman of his at a time when he was still Hand of the King, for Gregor was knighted before the Harrenhal tourney that got Jaime into the Kingsguard and Tywin out of the Handship. The words that Rhaegar told the bigger Clegane before that “Arise, Ser Gregor” that Sandor recalls so bitterly we can guess thanks to the first D&E novella, The Hedge Knight, where Lord Lyonel Baratheon knights the unripe-apple Fossoway boy:

"Raymun of House Fossoway," he began solemnly, touching the blade to the squire's right shoulder, "in the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave." The sword moved from his right shoulder to his left. "In the name of the Father I charge you to be just." Back to the right. "In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent." The left. "In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women."

Be brave, be just, defend the young and innocent, protect all women . . . all that young Sandor knows Gregor neither has ever been nor has ever done, and yet a dragon gives him his knighthood nevertheless. Third key circumstance and last wound: it wasn’t just any run-of-the-mill knight or lordling who rewarded his victimiser with a ser, it was Rhaegar Targaryen, a larger-than-life figure as princes are supposed to be, and a presumed paragon of knighthood himself.

It was repeated traumatising across the years, therefore, and no outlet but to become the Hound as defence. His overlord didn’t help much either, and might even have added to the trauma by his continuous protection of Gregor for his usefulness to the Lannister cause, a way of reliving his own father’s cover-up of his brother’s criminal actions. It’s been said before that much of what Sandor is due to being raised up by the Lannisters as their pseudo-family member of sorts, and your mention of creating an identity that admits no weakness nor vulnerability is reminiscent of a line in AFFC Cersei IX, in which she says something that harkens back to what Sandor said on Maegor’s rooftop:

Ser Pounce must learn to defend his rights,” she told him. “In this world the weak are always the victims of the strong.”

A Lannister credo, definitely, and their answer isn’t to protect or empathise with the weak, but be strong and brutal yourself. Based on the detail that Eddard, the least gossipy person to inhabit that planet, did hear rumours about Sandor’s burns indicates that the real story might have leaked out of the Clegane home somehow, if only partially, since there were witnesses and people talk, so some in the closest Lannister circle might have heard too; but Sandor himself has never talked and continued without a chance for a testimony and therefore moving on past the detonator, until this time.

[LongRider]

Thanks for this fascinating response Milady! Really digs into Sandor's psyche.

Excellent analysis, Brashcandy, just excellent! Loved this combination of literary analysis and psychology.

Erika Marder’s words are so accurate, and I can say from my own training that many in my area would agree with her conclusions, especially this bit:

There is no specific set of physical manifestations identifying trauma, and it almost invariably produces repeated, uncontrollable, and incalculable effects that endure long after its ostensible “precipitating cause.”

~~~~snip~~~

The first betrayal would be Gregor’s behaviour. He was the elder brother, the big and able-bodied one that was not only supposed but expected to be for little Sandor what all big brothers are: care for him, give support to him, play with him, be a sort of mentor and role model; in sum, be what Jon and Robb are to Bran. And he failed in the role, horribly so. It wouldn’t have hurt so much if he were just a distant brother, grouchy and mostly out of home, or that he’d spanked or clouted Sandor in the ear for taking his toy knight, as children always fight over toys and it doesn’t go beyond yelling, kicking, hitting, etc.

~~~~snip~~~

This paragraph reminded me of this passage from Sandor's tale: "So I took his knight, but there was no joy to it, I tell you. I was scared all the while, and true enough, he found me. " To me this says that the first betrayal went on for some time for even while playing with the toy, he was on the lookout for Gregor as he knew if he was found playing with it there could be trouble, bad trouble from the one who was supposed to look out for him.

[Avlonnic]

Wonderful analysis and insightful comments from all of you. This really enhances my appreciation for the characters and the writing.

[Ragnorak]

Nicely done, Brash.

In mimicking our subject I'm going to remain a little stuck in the past.

Our introduction to the Hound is marked by his "terrible" burned face, his Lannister association, and finally a condemnation for his killing of Mycah. His story that he shares with Sansa speaks directly to these. His burn, the thing we've been led to directly associate with his being "terrible," transforms him from predator to victim. His story transforms the Hound's defining characteristic from being something that makes him terrible to something terrible that was done to him. It also does this both within the context of Lannister service and within the context of his killing Mycah. Gregor, like Sansa's earlier reaction to Payne, is shown to be the truly frightening figure compared to Sandor's surface. Our trip beneath that wound into the man and his history shifts the terrible aspect on to the thing that was done to him and away from his appearance.

Mycah's death also gets its first diluting in the moral indignation Sandor shows at Hugh's death. He is not a cruel and heartless brute who laughs at dead children who couldn't outrun a sword on horseback. His outrage at Hugh's death mirrors the reader's outrage at Mycah's. From Ned's perspective we also get a suspicion that Gregor may have been "ordered" to kill Hugh which contrasts Sandor's order to overtly kill for a supposed criminal offense to Gregor's staged murder in the guise of an accident. In fact Ser Hugh isn't portrayed very sympathetically:

Jory had spoken to each of them in turn. Ser Hugh had been brusque and uninformative, and arrogant as only a new-made knight can be. If the Hand wished to talk to him, he should be pleased to receive him, but he would not be questioned by a mere captain of guards… even if said captain was ten years older and a hundred times the swordsman.

So the reader's emotional investment in Hugh isn't in his humanity or innocence as with Mycah, but in his untimely death that thwarts Ned's investigation. Sandor's in-story moral outrage at Hugh's death is likely greater than the reader's own emotional outrage at the murder. Sandor also offers a bit of plot confirmation that Hugh's death was no accident. So on a more subtle level he is again aligning with the Stark's from a sympathy standpoint as he is used as a device in a Stark POV to reveal information against our assumed Lannister villains.

In fact it was likely Littlefinger who was originally responsible for Hugh's death. He was the one leading Ned to these clues, the one responsible for Lysa's letter that pulled Ned south when Ned's own inclination and Cersei's assessment were that he would stay North. Whether he used a proxy or delivered the "Lannister desires" for Hugh's fate to Gregor himself we see our first merging of the two primary Giant candidates from Bran's dream in Hugh's death. As Varys posed the question:

Who truly killed Eddard Stark do you think? Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword? Or… another?

The same question could be asked of Ser Hugh's demise and is at least part of Sandor's sympathy redemption in the reader's eyes when it is applied to Mycah's death.

[OldGimletEye]

Interesting and excellent essay Brash. Thank you.

This is revealed by Sandor’s seemingly contradictory words and actions during the tourney. When he is called to escort Sansa at the end of the feast, he tells her:

“Come, you’re not the only one needs sleep. I’ve drunk too much, and I may need to kill my brother tomorrow.”

However, when tomorrow comes and Gregor’s brutal attack on Loras provides him with not only opportunity, but justification, we read:

The Mountain pivoted in wordless fury, swinging his longsword in a killing arc with all his massive strength behind it, but the Hound

caught the blow and turned it, and for what seemedan eternity the two brothers stood hammering at each other as a dazed Loras Tyrell

was helped to safety. Thrice Ned saw Ser Gregor aim savage blows at the hound’s-head helmet, yet not once did Sandor send

a cut at his brother’s unprotected face.

The fact Sandor often acts differently from the way he talks means you really have to take Sandor's words with a little grain of salt or, at least, be careful with interpreting his speech. Some of us around here have dubbed Sandor's manner of speech as "Sandorspeak".

During the walk back from the tourney, Sandor tells Sansa the story of his burns. It's noted during the telling how dark it is and how, except when he holds the torch near his face he can't be seen. It's been mentioned by fans before that Sandor is many times seen coming from the darkness into the light and that motif may have it's start here.

An interesting observation LongRider. I hadn't thought about his. Thanks for making it.

It was repeated traumatising across the years, therefore, and no outlet but to become the Hound as defence. His overlord didn’t help much either, and might even have added to the trauma by his continuous protection of Gregor for his usefulness to the Lannister cause, a way of reliving his own father’s cover-up of his brother’s criminal actions. It’s been said before that much of what Sandor is due to being raised up by the Lannisters as their pseudo-family member of sorts, and your mention of creating an identity that admits no weakness nor vulnerability is reminiscent of a line in AFFC Cersei IX, in which she says something that harkens back to what Sandor said on Maegor’s rooftop:

Ser Pounce must learn to defend his rights,” she told him. “In this world the weak are always the victims of the strong.”

A Lannister credo, definitely, and their answer isn’t to protect or empathise with the weak, but be strong and brutal yourself. Based on the detail that Eddard, the least gossipy person to inhabit that planet, did hear rumours about Sandor’s burns indicates that the real story might have leaked out of the Clegane home somehow, if only partially, since there were witnesses and people talk, so some in the closest Lannister circle might have heard too; but Sandor himself has never talked and continued without a chance for a testimony and therefore moving on past the detonator, until this time.

Great observation here Milady. I hadn't caught this either. It's interesting to consider that Sandor might have repeated some garbage he had heard from the Lannisters, even though deep down he probably never really believed it.

[brashcandy]

Thanks for the replies, folks. I'm happy you enjoyed the analysis :)

Very nice analysis Brash!

In the discussion about trauma and how it relates to Sandor's view of knighthood, it's worth noting that trauma victims that can develop 'black and white' thinking patterns as a result. Here we see the first glimpse of Sandor's black and white outlook on knights; he puts them all in one basket. He seems to hate the institution, yet we immediately see that Gregor's brutality has shaped this perception.

I am no knight. I spit on them and their vows. My brother is a knight.

So Sandor really acknowledges no greyness in the 'knight continuum' at this stage, reflecting how severely the burns to his face and mind have molded him as a person. Sansa is soon trusted by Sandor, and so the stage is set for her to offer some form of therapy. Due to this position of confidence, she can challenge his damaged outlook on himself, and thus knighthood.

It's also interesting we learn that Barristan unhorsed Sandor (in-as-much as they're mentioned together). At this point, Sandor has been portrayed as a 'bad guy', and from the offset Barristan as a shining example of the 'true' white knight. A hero to Bran, and the "greatest living knight", when we first see Barristan, he is courteous & makes Sansa laugh, ridding her of anxiety.

However, what's interesting is that the pair might have similarities. Selmy keeps vigil over Ser Hugh, behaving honorably and like a 'true knight' at the tourney. What Sandor did in defending Loras (and not aiming for Gregor's face), as brash points out, is also in line with ideals Barristan aspires to.

This is an excellent part of the books for getting a grounding on 'knightly issues'.

Great points, Yolk. Sandor's perception has definitely been warped by Gregor and that's a key aspect of his personal tragedy that Martin will explore throughout his arc. As you noted with the black and white thinking, he's going to increasingly have to grapple with not just taking the shitty system as a given, but interrogating his role in it, and deciding the kind of man and warrior he wants to be going forward. In that light, these early parallels with Barristan are important, because both of them will see long held allegiances put under pressure and collapse, and both will be challenged to make changes in their behaviour and world-view.

<snip>

Something came out at me in the Eddard chapter. Ned is musing about Gregor and notes; "Unlike his brother, Ser Gregor did not live at court. He was a solitary man whom seldom left his own lands, but for wars and tourneys." I found this interesting, for as damaged as Sandor is, he lives among others and has somewhat of an open social life.

We learn later from a conversation between Tyrion and Varys that Sandor drinks, dices and visits brothels just as his peers do. Unlike the brother who hurt him, he does not live in isolation and by being around other people, he meets Sansa whose empathy starts him on the bumpy road to change.

During the walk back from the tourney, Sandor tells Sansa the story of his burns. It's noted during the telling how dark it is and how, except when he holds the torch near his face he can't be seen. It's been mentioned by fans before that Sandor is many times seen coming from the darkness into the light and that motif may have it's start here.

I like your observation on the damaged headgear, LongRider. Concerning Sandor's social life, he undoubtedly participated in and had access to many of the activities and pleasures open to those with notable positions in the royal household. What I think we're being asked to consider, however, is not simply the relative stability that Sandor enjoyed as Joff's sworn shield, but rather the extremely precarious and faulty foundations upon which he has built his entire career and life with the Lannisters. Famed warrior notwithstanding, the trauma that he endured at Gregor's hands has resulted in a considerable psychic breach, so to speak, and in that absent space the Hound took shape. Is Sandor genuinely at peace with himself, fulfilled, happy or in love? These are questions that are vital when we examine his overall well-being, and Martin will put them all under the microscope as the story continues. On the "darkness into light" motif, I'm partial to the idea that it represents the self-negating vs. the self-fulfilling direction of his arc.

<snip>

I’ve wondered if Sandor was present in Gregor’s knighting, and whilst I tend to think it’s probable, in the end it doesn’t matter if he was or not, the effect is the same even if he wasn’t, for he’d have heard no end of proud talk and bragging at the Clegane castle or amongst the retainers. Because being knighted by the Prince of Dragonstone is no small matter, as Jorah and Selmy say in ASOS Daenerys II and ADWD Barristan III:

“There was no higher honour than to receive your knighthood from the Prince of Dragonstone.”

. . . . .

On the other hand, a young knight’s repute derived at least in part from the honor of the man who conferred knighthood on him.

<snip>

It would be a nice bit of narrative symmetry if he was there, I admit, although in thinking closely about it, the possibility that he wasn't there but yet "remembers" it so vividly and with the same kind of bitterness of a terrifying injury he actually experienced, does indicate the force of impact Gregor's knighting had on Sandor and the corrupted outlook that developed from all of it.

[brashcandy]

So the reader's emotional investment in Hugh isn't in his humanity or innocence as with Mycah, but in his untimely death that thwarts Ned's investigation. Sandor's in-story moral outrage at Hugh's death is likely greater than the reader's own emotional outrage at the murder. Sandor also offers a bit of plot confirmation that Hugh's death was no accident. So on a more subtle level he is again aligning with the Stark's from a sympathy standpoint as he is used as a device in a Stark POV to reveal information against our assumed Lannister villains.

I agree with this, Rag, and there's also Ned's perspective on the Hound's family and history that adds an additional layer of horror and sympathy for what he has had to endure. The Clegane home looks like something out of the spookiest gothic novel: a terrorising older brother, a father who is at best completely cowed by his son, and even a potential murder mystery in the death of Sandor's sister. That Sandor would have had to flee such an environment is obvious and it helps to reframe our perspective on his involvement with the Lannisters.

In fact it was likely Littlefinger who was originally responsible for Hugh's death. He was the one leading Ned to these clues, the one responsible for Lysa's letter that pulled Ned south when Ned's own inclination and Cersei's assessment were that he would stay North. Whether he used a proxy or delivered the "Lannister desires" for Hugh's fate to Gregor himself we see our first merging of the two primary Giant candidates from Bran's dream in Hugh's death. As Varys posed the question:

Who truly killed Eddard Stark do you think? Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword? Or… another?

The same question could be asked of Ser Hugh's demise and is at least part of Sandor's sympathy redemption in the reader's eyes when it is applied to Mycah's death.

And who's the one operating in the background at the tourney, making moves on Ned's daughter, and then betting on the Kingslayer which leads to Renly's statement that he would have won twice as much had Tyrion been present? If this tourney contains some foreshadowing clues for how the story plays out in the future, then LF as the behind-the-scenes giant could be in store for a meeting with the winner he bet against.

[OldGimletEye]

Sandor is nearly unhorsed by Jaime, but recovers just in time and goes on to win the tilt, while Jaime ends up “golden and dented” in the dirt. With the next match beginning between Ser Gregor and Ser Loras of Highgarden, Ned thinks about the infamous reputation the Mountain holds:

Unlike his brother, Ser Gregor did not live at court. He was a solitary man who seldom left his own lands, but for wars and tourneys. He had been with Lord Tywin when King’s Landing fell, a

new-made knight of seventeen years, even then distinguished by his size and his implacable ferocity. Some said it had been Gregor who’d dashed the skull of the infant prince Aegon Targaryen against a wall, and whispered that afterward he had raped the mother, the Dornish princess Elia, before putting her to the sword. These things were not said in Gregor’s hearing.

Ned Stark could not recall ever speaking to the man, though Gregor had ridden with them during Balon Greyjoy’s rebellion, one knight among thousands. He watched him with disquiet. Ned seldom put much stock in gossip, but the things said of Ser Gregor were more than ominous. He was soon to be married for the third time, and one heard dark whisperings about the deaths of his first two wives. It was said that his keep was a grim place where servants disappeared unaccountably and even the dogs were afraid to enter the hall. And there had been a sister who had died young under queer circumstances, and the fire that had disfigured his brother, and the hunting accident that had killed their father. Gregor had inherited the keep, the gold, and the family estates. His younger brother Sandor had left the same day to take service with the Lannisters as a sworn sword, and it was said that he had never returned, not even to visit.

Brash, I just wanted to say, thanks for pointing out this piece of text. In arguments that I've had with others about Sandor, there was often an issue about the exact nature of Sandor's employment with the Lannisters. Some have suggested that Sandor's employment relationship with the Lannisters was one akin to a hedge knight or he had some kind of employment-at-will relationship with the Lannisters. This piece of text seems to confirm that Sandor was sworn to House Lannister and he simply couldn't have put his two weeks notice in and sought employment somewhere else.

[brashcandy]

Brash, I just wanted to say, thanks for pointing out this piece of text. In arguments that I've had with others about Sandor, there was often an issue about the exact nature of Sandor's employment with the Lannisters. Some have suggested that Sandor's employment relationship with the Lannisters was one akin to a hedge knight or he had some kind of employment-at-will relationship with the Lannisters. This piece of text seems to confirm that Sandor was sworn to House Lannister and he simply couldn't have put his two weeks notice in and sought employment somewhere else.

You're welcome, OGE :) Oh, yeah, I've seen him called everything from hedge knight, sellsword, random employee # 5... There's nothing accidental or casual about Sandor's service to the Lannisters, and as Milady of York pointed out earlier in the reread, his role as Gregor's heir meant that he was not at liberty to give his service to another House as other younger sons might do in the series.

[Milady of York]

You're welcome, OGE :) Oh, yeah, I've seen him called everything from hedge knight, sellsword, random employee # 5... There's nothing accidental or casual about Sandor's service to the Lannisters, and as Milady of York pointed out earlier in the reread, his role as Gregor's heir meant that he was not at liberty to give his service to another House as other younger sons might do in the series.

Yes, and in addition to what I said before on Sandor being formally a liegeman bound by an oath of fealty, supporting my statement with what Robar Royce told Catelyn when she questioned him on why he was serving a Stormlord instead of the Arryn overlords of his House, I will add another piece of textual support. Jaime also questioned Brienne on why a Stormlander like her was serving the Starks, in ASOS Jaime I:

“Tarth,” Jaime said. “A ghastly large rock in the narrow sea, as I recall. And Evenfall is sworn to Storm’s End. How is it that you serve Robb of Winterfell? “

“It is Lady Catelyn I serve. And she commanded me to deliver you safe to your brother Tyrion at King’s Landing, not to bandy words with you. Be silent.”

Brienne rebukes him stating that no, she isn't serving the overlords of the North, as she is the heir of her House, and Lord Selwyn is bannerman to Storm's End, so she's not free to drag her House into this with a formal oath of fealty to House Stark. But Catelyn isn't the head of the House, Robb is, so personal service to her is permissible for her. Besides, it must be taken into account that Renly, her overlord, is dead, and oaths of fealty expire upon death or change of liege lord by whatever reason, that's why vassals are required to renew their oaths in these circumstances, and whenever war erupts.

[ornitorrinca]

Yet again, the hosts of the re-read have done a fantastic job of bringing Sandor's character to life. All the analyses have been so well-planned and backed up by serious research - please know how appreciated your hard work is! That you can bring your professional formation into this thread in order to analyze Sandor's state of being and speculate about his future adds a new dimension to any discussion about this character. I've often gone back and forth about Sandor's roar after Sansa states that "[Gregor] was no true knight." Was it laughter at her naivety? Or more of a catharsis? Not having studied anything about human psychology (beyond a class that was literally called "Psychology 101", jaja), I found BrashCandy and Milady of York's research and responses enlightening and now feel that it was more the second option. He finally opens up about the worst event of his life, after years of silence and shame - and his confidant actually validates his pain and anger; she is perhaps the only person ever to admit outright that Gregor was in the wrong. It's a ground-shaking (and ground-breaking) moment in his life.

BrashCandy also spoke of the "culture of silence" surrounding horrific events, such as Gregor's maiming of his brother. I think this was really well said. Unfortunately, it's as true in our world as it is in theirs.

It seems like the point of there being a "Hand's Tourney" in the narrative is to bring the brothers - their personalities, their conflict, their past, present and future - to the foreground. It lays the groundwork for Sandor and Sansa's relationship, works to change reader opinion about the Hound by providing information about his family life and hints at a future resolution of their conflict.

...

In fact it was likely Littlefinger who was originally responsible for Hugh's death. He was the one leading Ned to these clues, the one responsible for Lysa's letter that pulled Ned south when Ned's own inclination and Cersei's assessment were that he would stay North. Whether he used a proxy or delivered the "Lannister desires" for Hugh's fate to Gregor himself we see our first merging of the two primary Giant candidates from Bran's dream in Hugh's death. As Varys posed the question:

Who truly killed Eddard Stark do you think? Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword? Or… another?

The same question could be asked of Ser Hugh's demise and is at least part of Sandor's sympathy redemption in the reader's eyes when it is applied to Mycah's death.

...

And who's the one operating in the background at the tourney, making moves on Ned's daughter, and then betting on the Kingslayer which leads to Renly's statement that he would have won twice as much had Tyrion been present? If this tourney contains some foreshadowing clues for how the story plays out in the future, then LF as the behind-the-scenes giant could be in store for a meeting with the winner he bet against.

Littlefinger played his cards right in the previous tournament but in this tournament, the one where the Clegane brothers dominate the narrative, he seriously misjudges things. His bet and his remarks to both Renly and Sansa show that he underestimates Sandor. Littlefinger has proven just how dangerous it can be to underestimate others; it is my hope, also, that this disregard for the Hound will end up costing him dearly.

[Ragnorak]

I like Longrider's observation regarding the two knights, Jaime and Renly, with helms damaged by Sandor. It stands out too given his lack of a helmet during the fight with Gregor and his unwillingness to strike at Gregor's helm.

I've been juggling the idea with other facades of the self we see in the series. Bran notes that Ned and Robb put on a "lord's face" but Ned had a father's face when he told tales by the fire and Robb drops the face of Robb the Lord when he admits his fears to his younger brother after the confrontation with Greatjon. Jon at the Wall seems not to incorporate this lesson from Ned. He buries this part of himself in "I have no brothers/sister;" he only has the face of Lord Snow. Tywin's smile that died with Joanna may serve as a parallel of sorts to the father vs. lord's face but the façade seems all he ever displays even to his children. Tywin also has "that look" when angered and that is a characteristic he shares with Gregor. There is the way Tywin assesses Gregor with a look when Gregor suggests gouging out the eyes of failed outriders and giving them to the next outriders as a message. Chiswyck also notes Gregor's "that look" as he relates the tale that merits him a place on Arya's list of death wishes.

Part of the "Lord's face" idea is separating the private self from duty. It is one of the coping mechanisms for Aemon's "love is the bane of honor, the death of duty" dilemma. Aemon makes a morality metaphor with ravens and doves and says the Nights Watch prefers ravens-- the hated and misunderstood creatures that are better at executing their duty than the pure white doves that are perceived as holy. This speaks to the heart of the false vs. true knight theme of which Sandor is a central figure.

So what is being communicated through the helmet metaphor that acts as a "knight's face?"

I mused over Lady Gwyn's idea that the defining characteristics of those in Bran's vision are being shed on the path to redemption. Yolkboy noted that Sandor has a very black and white image of knighthood here and in Martin's world grey is likely closer to the truth. Is there a path to greyness starting in Sandor's knighthood view starting here?

Sansa's line that Gregor was "no true knight" is interesting in that it directly addresses Sandor's rage against knight's and speaks to his pre-trauma idealism. One could read a progression of awakening into the events we've seen so far. Sandor is tasked with killing a young boy in which he finds himself in the rare role of attacker and not defender. This alone is enough to cause a certain psychological unease in him which might have been accentuated by details of the events at the Trident he could have learned afterwards. His brother arrives at court for the Tourney which again is enough to set him off by itself and then Sandor watches him kill yet another idealistic youth aspiring to be a knight. The weight of these events comes to fruition with Sansa and her enchantment with knighthood which sparks his telling her his tale, quite probably for the fist time in his life.

The telling of the tale itself has an evolution within their conversation. Sandor initially mocks her and her idealism by finishing her Gregor sentence with the word "Gallant?" Sansa doesn't accept the cynicism and retorts with the line about no one being able to withstand Gregor. This strikes a chord and a memory with Sandor. He accuses her of being a pretty trained bird reciting a Septa's platitudes and forces her to look at his rather unpretty face as if it were proof of the emptiness of her pretty platitudes. This first part of the conversation is Sandor rejecting idealism and Sansa's silence and crying after staring at his face seems to be Sandor believing he's been proven right. This seeming confirmation of his world view leads him to tell the tale behind his unpretty face as if to drive home the truth he was trying to reveal to Sansa. Yet after the story and a long silence Sansa's fear of the unpretty face is gone. It is Sandor's "hulking black shape" hiding from Sansa's eyes rather than Sansa's eyes be averted. The silence goes on for some time meaning that Sansa probably looked at him for some time. The earlier effects, Sansa's fear and inability to look at him, that Sandor took as an affirmation of his cynical worldview are undone after the tale he seems to have expected to drive his cynical truth home. The failure to impart his cynical world view is driven home by Sansa's "true knight" line which causes laughter and agreement rather than another "pretty bird" derogatory response. Her idealism runs deeper than a knight's façade or a Septa's parroted platitudes.

Curiously, the next day Sandor is the one, and notably the only one on a field filled with knights, to act like a true knight in both defending Loras the cheating knight and fighting Gregor honorably by refusing to go for the unarmored head. Mycah could well have been a defining moment of cynicism that could have resulted in Sandor sitting back and letting the way the world is rid itself of one or two hypocritical knights. Instead he seems to be reacting more to the no one could withstand him line (with which he originally agreed when Sansa spoke it) by being the one to withstand Gregor this time around. He does this without the façade of the Hound's helm which brings us full circle to facades and the potential meanings in helmet metaphors.

ETA:

I agree with this, Rag, and there's also Ned's perspective on the Hound's family and history that adds an additional layer of horror and sympathy for what he has had to endure. The Clegane home looks like something out of the spookiest gothic novel: a terrorising older brother, a father who is at best completely cowed by his son, and even a potential murder mystery in the death of Sandor's sister. That Sandor would have had to flee such an environment is obvious and it helps to reframe our perspective on his involvement with the Lannisters.

And who's the one operating in the background at the tourney, making moves on Ned's daughter, and then betting on the Kingslayer which leads to Renly's statement that he would have won twice as much had Tyrion been present? If this tourney contains some foreshadowing clues for how the story plays out in the future, then LF as the behind-the-scenes giant could be in store for a meeting with the winner he bet against.

I really like this, Brash. Even aside from specific bits of foreshadowing (like the dagger lie we're clued in about in the betting here) the overall theme of Littlefinger manipulating events involving these players and betting wrong fits so very well.

[ornitorrinca]

I enjoyed re-reading these chapters and paying attention to the juxtapositions of characters in the Tourney, especially with regard to Sandor’s arc.

-Thoros unhorsing Beric is just a small anecdote relating to him (it calls to mind Thoros’s boast about having overthrown Sandor three times in melees).

-Jaime, described in all his golden glory, is immediately followed by a description of the gigantic Gregor. (Bran's vision)

-Beric Dondarrion’s intro precedes the Hound’s mention (one of his last [real] acts as the Hound is his fight against Dondarrion).

-The Hound and Renly are mentioned together – I suppose this makes sense as it is from Sansa’s POV and she “met” both these men on the same day, within minutes of each other. He seems to be more or less on the same level as Renly in her eyes at this point. I say this because Renly is described as handsome but Sandor gets no qualifier, like he so often does. Was his visor already down, shielding his face? Later the two men actually do go up against each other and, again, the POV seemingly shows no real preference for one over the other, noting only that (again, "handsome") Renly was "a great favorite" among the commons.

- Jaime unhorses Ser Barristan, the man who beat Sandor in the previous tournament, while Sandor is declared the winner of the whole tournament by Loras, who beat Jaime the previous year (thus winning the tournament). Maybe they won’t be fighting side by side but, in a way, they’ll complement each other while defending the Stark sisters? (More important, though, are the "Barristandor" parallels highlighted by yolkboy)

The composition of the semifinalists is quite reminiscent of Bran’s vision: Jaime, Sandor, Gregor – ahem, and Loras. (Well, it takes four to have a “final four”…) Plus, Loras becomes important as a point of contrast with regard to Sandor, his savior. Also evocative of the language from Bran's vision: Gregor “wrench[es] off his helm” and his face was “dark with fury” (“but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood”) There is more confirmation of Gregor’s homicidal tendencies (against Loras and, in contrast to Sandor, the way he treats his horse) and Ned’s lengthy description of the man that, again, really calls to mind the giant in Bran’s vision.

This is drifting off into the realm of craziness, but Renly Baratheon handing over the golden tine to Sandor made me think of the first chapter of the book. It’s similar, but instead of the fight ending in the direwolf’s death and the stag losing an entire foot of antler with its “tines snapped off”, the stag recognizes the superiority of its foe (direwolf/dog-turned-direwolf-replacement/what have you), the tine is freely given and thus, the antler, and by extension the stag, is preserved.

...It’s a pity he didn’t save that tine; it would’ve come in handy after the Brotherhood “foraged” him.

[brashcandy]

Yet again, the hosts of the re-read have done a fantastic job of bringing Sandor's character to life. All the analyses have been so well-planned and backed up by serious research - please know how appreciated your hard work is! That you can bring your professional formation into this thread in order to analyze Sandor's state of being and speculate about his future adds a new dimension to any discussion about this character. I've often gone back and forth about Sandor's roar after Sansa states that "[Gregor] was no true knight." Was it laughter at her naivety? Or more of a catharsis? Not having studied anything about human psychology (beyond a class that was literally called "Psychology 101", jaja), I found BrashCandy and Milady of York's research and responses enlightening and now feel that it was more the second option. He finally opens up about the worst event of his life, after years of silence and shame - and his confidant actually validates his pain and anger; she is perhaps the only person ever to admit outright that Gregor was in the wrong. It's a ground-shaking (and ground-breaking) moment in his life.

Keen point on the laughter as catharsis, Orni, and in trauma studies the listener's belief in the story is an integral component to helping the victim through their struggle. As Dori Laub states:

Bearing witness to a trauma is, in fact, a process that includes the listener. For the testimonial process to take place, there needs to be a bonding, the intimate and total presence of an other - in the position of one who hears. Testimonies are not monologues; they cannot take place in solitude. The witnesses are talking to somebody; to somebody they have been waiting for for a long time.

Sansa too comes out of this scene being held in a different perspective by a lot of readers, and it's because most people can appreciate the important value of a sympathetic response to someone who's in pain and torment. She displays remarkable compassion and trustworthiness, qualities that undermine the impression of those early chapters, including Jon and Arya's "don't tell Sansa!" remark at Winterfell.

Curiously, the next day Sandor is the one, and notably the only one on a field filled with knights, to act like a true knight in both defending Loras the cheating knight and fighting Gregor honorably by refusing to go for the unarmored head. Mycah could well have been a defining moment of cynicism that could have resulted in Sandor sitting back and letting the way the world is rid itself of one or two hypocritical knights. Instead he seems to be reacting more to the no one could withstand him line (with which he originally agreed when Sansa spoke it) by being the one to withstand Gregor this time around. He does this without the façade of the Hound's helm which brings us full circle to facades and the potential meanings in helmet metaphors.

(Minor correction Rag, Sandor is wearing his helm during the fight.)Just before he has to jump in and save Loras, Ned makes note of Sandor's "rasping, raucous laughter" at Gregor's ignominious fall off the horse. Sandor would have been aware of the trick that Loras used with the mare to achieve this, and given Gregor's actions the previous day, it's a rare and brief moment of karmic justice for him, even if it doesn't result in anything more than a bruised ego for the Mountain. Of course, since this is the Mountain we're speaking of things turn deadly quickly. The hand's tourney is won by a show of true knighthood, not showmanship or tricks, and that's something profoundly alien to the likes of LF and many others at the event.

I enjoyed re-reading these chapters and paying attention to the juxtapositions of characters in the Tourney, especially with regard to Sandor’s arc.

<snip>

Good stuff. In the Beric/Sandor juxtaposition, notice that he comes right after Jeyne proclaims her undying love for Beric ;) Concerning Sandor/Renly, the interplay between them captures Sansa's attention:

When Lord Renly climbed to his feet, the commons cheered wildly, for King Robert’s handsome young brother was a great favorite. He handed the broken tine to his conqueror with a gracious bow. The Hound snorted and tossed the broken antler into the crowd, where the commons began to punch and claw over the little bit of gold, until Lord Renly walked out among them and restored the peace. By then Septa Mordane had returned, alone. Jeyne had been feeling ill, she explained; she had helped her back to the castle. Sansa had almost forgotten about Jeyne.

Loras/Sandor makes me think of Sansa's later comparison between the "dog and the rose," and at this stage in the tourney Martin seems to be teasing her romantic options and her varying responses to them.

[Lyanna Stark]

It would be a nice bit of narrative symmetry if he was there, I admit, although in thinking closely about it, the possibility that he wasn't there but yet "remembers" it so vividly and with the same kind of bitterness of a terrifying injury he actually experienced, does indicate the force of impact Gregor's knighting had on Sandor and the corrupted outlook that developed from all of it.

To add insult to injury regarding the knighting in particular, Gregor was not knighted by a Lannister household knight, or Jaime Lannister or any other Lannister aligned knight, no, he was knighted by Rhaegar Targaryen himself. Rhaegar was, at least before the elopment/kidnapping debacle, very highly regarded and on top of that a Real Prince so it must have felt an even more severe blow to have such a man knight Gregor, of all people. Further, it must have fanned the flames of "knighthood is all a lie" if Gregor managed to lie to Rhaegar, or at least everyone put of a front of how everything was fine with Gregor, and "everyting" then I imagine includes the Prince and some of the Kingsguard (who were probably knocking around with Rhaegar).

It seems to me Rhaegar's inclusion was meant to symbolise that to everyone and to the Realm itself, Sandor's pain and suffering were worth nothing, while Gregor got all the honours. The unfairness was not limited to Sandor's immidate family, but it is goes all the way up to the top, and it is woved through the fabric of society. I know Lummel has posted before about knighthood as an institution and how it is/was corrupted in Westeros, and I think Sandor's story and Rhaegar's and Gregor's placement within it are further commentary on knighthood as an instution in Westeros and its problems/corruption.

[Ragnorak]

<snip>

(Minor correction Rag, Sandor is wearing his helm during the fight.)Just before he has to jump in and save Loras, Ned makes note of Sandor's "rasping, raucous laughter" at Gregor's ignominious fall off the horse. Sandor would have been aware of the trick that Loras used with the mare to achieve this, and given Gregor's actions the previous day, it's a rare and brief moment of karmic justice for him, even if it doesn't result in anything more than a bruised ego for the Mountain. Of course, since this is the Mountain we're speaking of things turn deadly quickly. The hand's tourney is won by a show of true knighthood, not showmanship or tricks, and that's something profoundly alien to the likes of LF and many others at the event.

<snip>

Thank you. That's what I get for trying to ram to many ideas into my head at once...

It also makes a great deal more sense now. So going with Bran's lord's face observation with wearing a façade as an aspect of duty (Aemon's love vs. honor struggle), the helmets can take on some interesting symbolism. Renly gets associated with the knights of summer and he will forsake his duty to his brother Stannis for a crown. He looses a crowning piece of his helmet and the result is infighting among the crowd. Jaime gets stuck in his helmet, his façade of duty which fits with his later attempting to use his duty as a means of redefining his sense of self. Gregor has no sense of duty or struggle with honor, no helm. He casts off his helm and even kills his horse (a knight is a horse with a sword.)

So what does that leave us to make of the Hound's helmet? He wears it in true knight fashion here. Sandor is proud of it as he is of the nickname the Hound which he feels is a mark of honor given the founding tale of his House. It is last used to boil wine to try and heal his wounds and then as a gravestone of sorts that gets stolen. He's left wearing the gravedigger's hood. Mythological hero's trip into the underworld? Does he find a new helm? Reclaim his old one? That's all jumping ahead, but what path is he on at the moment? Based on this chapter's actions he seems to me like someone who would reclaim his helm.

Reading the Tourney the way you do life really does seem to be a song.

[Mad Madam Mim]

Great discussion everyone!

Thanks for this fascinating response Milady! Really digs into Sandor's psyche.

This paragraph reminded me of this passage from Sandor's tale: "So I took his knight, but there was no joy to it, I tell you. I was scared all the while, and true enough, he found me. " To me this says that the first betrayal went on for some time for even while playing with the toy, he was on the lookout for Gregor as he knew if he was found playing with it there could be trouble, bad trouble from the one who was supposed to look out for him.

It is interesting that Sandor still took the toy knight despite being scared of Gregor's potential reaction. First of all, this suggests that Gregor's attack on Sandor was not an 'out of the blue' random act of violence. There must have been previous incident(s) to give Sandor due course to be frightened of Gregor's reaction.

Secondly, despite knowing this, Sandor still took the toy which is quite an act of disobedience on Sandor's part. He knew he was doing wrong, he knew Gregor would be angry, he was scared, but he did it anyway. In considering the extreme consequences Sandor had to endure for a relatively minor act of disobedience, I wonder if this contributed to the unfailing obedience of the Hound persona in adulthood. It could almost be a simplistic example of conditioning. ie. Sandor learned from that experience that Disobedience = very bad consequences.

Interesting and excellent essay Brash. Thank you.

The fact Sandor often acts differently from the way he talks means you really have to take Sandor's words with a little grain of salt or, at least, be careful with interpreting his speech. Some of us around here have dubbed Sandor's manner of speech as "Sandorspeak".

Hurrah for Sandorspeak!

In juxtaposing Sandor's speech with his actions, there is a high amount of touching and physical contact between Sandor and Sansa when he escorts her back to the keep.

He pulled her unresisting to her feet.

...

Look at me. Look at me!" Sandor Clegane put a huge hand under her chin and forced her face up. He squatted in front of her, and moved the torch close. "There's a pretty for you. Take a good long stare. You know you want to. I've watched you turning away all the way down the kingsroad. Piss on that. Take your look."

His fingers held her jaw as hard as an iron trap. His eyes watched hers. Drunken eyes, sullen with anger. She had to look.

...

The silence went on and on, so long that she began to grow afraid once more, but she was afraid for him now, not for herself. She found his massive shoulder with her hand. "He was no true knight," she whispered to him.

The Hound threw back his head and roared. Sansa stumbled back, away from him, but he caught her arm. "No," he growled at her, "no, little bird, he was no true knight."

I particularly enjoyed the last bolded quote; Sandor has just shared with Sansa a story he has never told anyone. His primary goal in telling Sansa is to shock and appall her with its brutality, but actually by telling Sansa his story he has exposed his weakness, shown himself to be vulnerable. "Look at me" he says, he wants her to be shocked by him, but he also wants her to understand him. He has marked Sansa as special, almost like he has crowned her his queen of love and beauty (at the tourney he eventually wins) and Sansa provides comfort to him in his moment of vulnerability when it is likely he has not received a lot of comfort in his life. When Sansa is trying to pull away Sandor physically pulls her back. It is like he is trying to cling on to that vulnerable moment and prolong both the physical and emotional contact he has established with her.

He then seems to realise just how much he has emotionally exposed himself to Sansa and overcompensates by threatening to kill her. Bad bad Sandor.

[brashcandy]

Thank you. That's what I get for trying to ram to many ideas into my head at once...

It also makes a great deal more sense now. So going with Bran's lord's face observation with wearing a façade as an aspect of duty (Aemon's love vs. honor struggle), the helmets can take on some interesting symbolism. Renly gets associated with the knights of summer and he will forsake his duty to his brother Stannis for a crown. He looses a crowning piece of his helmet and the result is infighting among the crowd. Jaime gets stuck in his helmet, his façade of duty which fits with his later attempting to use his duty as a means of redefining his sense of self. Gregor has no sense of duty or struggle with honor, no helm. He casts off his helm and even kills his horse (a knight is a horse with a sword.)

Going on all three - Jaime, Renly, Sandor - being younger sons, perhaps the symbolism is directed at the fates of their houses in general? Soon enough King Robert will be dead, and that will spark the War of the Five Kings, something that could be represented by the crowd fighting over the scrap of gold. Jaime "golden and dented" in the dirt sounds like foreshadowing for the current condition of House Lannister after their initial triumphs; and Gregor with no helm while Sandor wears his calls forth the headless Gregor at the end of AFFC and his eventual reincarnation into Robert Strong. Foreshadowing of Sandor as head of House Clegane? Not only does Gregor kill his horse, but he kills a stallion. Sandor currently has his own very bad-tempered stallion biting ears and taking names on the QI. If we think of stallions as representative of masculine virility, then the symbolism definitely favours Sandor's resurgence.

[LongRider]

~~~snip~~~

So what does that leave us to make of the Hound's helmet? He wears it in true knight fashion here. Sandor is proud of it as he is of the nickname the Hound which he feels is a mark of honor given the founding tale of his House. It is last used to boil wine to try and heal his wounds and then as a gravestone of sorts that gets stolen. He's left wearing the gravedigger's hood. Mythological hero's trip into the underworld? Does he find a new helm? Reclaim his old one? That's all jumping ahead, but what path is he on at the moment? Based on this chapter's actions he seems to me like someone who would reclaim his helm.

Reading the Tourney the way you do life really does seem to be a song.

His helm was taken from him by the Elder Brother. This will warrant more discussion when we get to the Quiet Isle, but your question is a good one 'What do we make of the Hounds helmet?'

Great discussion everyone!

It is interesting that Sandor still took the toy knight despite being scared of Gregor's potential reaction. First of all, this suggests that Gregor's attack on Sandor was not an 'out of the blue' random act of violence. There must have been previous incident(s) to give Sandor due course to be frightened of Gregor's reaction.

Secondly, despite knowing this, Sandor still took the toy which is quite an act of disobedience on Sandor's part. He knew he was doing wrong, he knew Gregor would be angry, he was scared, but he did it anyway. In considering the extreme consequences Sandor had to endure for a relatively minor act of disobedience, I wonder if this contributed to the unfailing obedience of the Hound persona in adulthood. It could almost be a simplistic example of conditioning. ie. Sandor learned from that experience that Disobedience = very bad consequences.

Hurrah for Sandorspeak!

In juxtaposing Sandor's speech with his actions, there is a high amount of touching and physical contact between Sandor and Sansa when he escorts her back to the keep.

I particularly enjoyed the last bolded quote; Sandor has just shared with Sansa a story he has never told anyone. His primary goal in telling Sansa is to shock and appall her with its brutality, but actually by telling Sansa his story he has exposed his weakness, shown himself to be vulnerable. "Look at me" he says, he wants her to be shocked by him, but he also wants her to understand him. He has marked Sansa as special, almost like he has crowned her his queen of love and beauty (at the tourney he eventually wins) and Sansa provides comfort to him in his moment of vulnerability when it is likely he has not received a lot of comfort in his life. When Sansa is trying to pull away Sandor physically pulls her back. It is like he is trying to cling on to that vulnerable moment and prolong both the physical and emotional contact he has established with her.

He then seems to realise just how much he has emotionally exposed himself to Sansa and overcompensates by threatening to kill her. Bad bad Sandor.

This is an interesting point, he took a toy belonging to Gregor knowing that Gregor would be wroth if was found playing with it, but took it anyway. I doubt he expected Gregor to try to kill him tho'. He is quite the obienent hound even when ordered to kill the innocent Mycha, but slowly the, um, not willful child exactly, but the deeply buried Sandor begins to surface with very small acts of disobedience. His disobediences are often acts of kindness to Sansa too. "Random acts of disobedience and kindness.'

edt; the toy must of been impressive as he still calls it a 'marvelous toy'.

A good point here, we'll see this happen again when he is really drunk and very stressed out. (yeah, when he deserts)

[LongRider]

Going on all three - Jaime, Renly, Sandor - being younger sons, perhaps the symbolism is directed at the fates of their houses in general? Soon enough King Robert will be dead, and that will spark the War of the Five Kings, something that could be represented by the crowd fighting over the scrap of gold. Jaime "golden and dented" in the dirt sounds like foreshadowing for the current condition of House Lannister after their initial triumphs; and Gregor with no helm while Sandor wears his calls forth the headless Gregor at the end of AFFC and his eventual reincarnation into Robert Strong. Foreshadowing of Sandor as head of House Clegane? Not only does Gregor kill his horse, but he kills a stallion. Sandor currently has his own very bad-tempered stallion biting ears and taking names on the QI. If we think of stallions as representative of masculine virility, then the symbolism definitely favours Sandor's resurgence.

Very chewy thoughts here, one issue we've not discussed however, is Renly and Jaime both betrayed their brothers; Renly by making a try for the throne after Robert's death, and Jaime, going along with Tywin's punishment of Tyrion for marrying Tysha. Sandor however, was very nearly killed, maimed for life and treated as if he mattered not at all compared to Gregor, does not kill his brother when he a had chance to do it. A chance which would not have been treated as crime in his culture.

He shows that somewhere inside, he just couldn't do it, he couldn't betray his only family member left, or, perhaps something else?

Thoughts?