The Parallel Journey of Daenerys Targaryen & ... Part II

[SeanF]

Because having three dragons is rather conspicuous? Sure lol. But what happens if they all die?

Well, it does make you a target. And, so many people hate Dany in Essos, that she'd be assassinated if she ever tried to become a private citizen.

[BearQueen87]

Well, it does make you a target. And, so many people hate Dany in Essos, that she'd be assassinated if she ever tried to become a private citizen.

That's true as well---though I don't think being a public figure grants her any safety from those same assassination attempts-- for example the poison attempt in Meereen (if indeed it was intended for her and to kill her, but we've talked about that in the last Dany re-read). I think wherever she goes, public or private life, Dany will be loved and hated in equal measure, feared and celebrated. It's going to come down to her choosing the life that she wants, the one she will be most comfortable with, whatever that may be. And the same can be said for any character, Jon included.

[MoIaF]

Complimentary Counterparts

The Parallel Journey of Daenerys Targaryen & Jon Snow

Essay II: Who Am I?

Introduction

Understanding who we are and what is our purpose in this world is one of the most important journeys we ever make. For our young protagonist it is no different. For Dany and Jon the search to find themselves, to identify who they are is one of the main themes of their arc. It is something that they have both struggled heavily with throughout the series. At times accepting it and at times denying it, it has been a constant source of turmoil within them.

As we had discussed in the previous essay, both Dany and Jon have yearned for a place to belong, to find themselves amongst people who will accept them for who they are, not what they might represent. At times they have found this acceptance but it has been sadly fleeting. However, these experiences have helped them in the journey to find themselves and in the process made a lasting impressions on them.

The Evolution of Self

We had previously discussed the juxtaposition of Dany having a name but no family or place to call home while Jon had no name but had a family and a place to call home. When it comes to their identities we see a similar juxtaposition, while Dany searches for an identity throughout the series, Jon seeks to redefine the identity with which he was born, that of a bastard.

Throughout the series Dany finds herself in different roles, khaleesi, Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains, Mhysa, Queen of Mereen, and threw them she seeks to find and eventually come to terms with who she really is, a dragon. On the other hand, Jon who’s already been given the “identity” as a bastard, seeks to come to terms with it, but also tries to move beyond it, to prove himself to be more than just the bastard of Winterfell.

Dany

When we first meet Dany, her identity is sort of in flux, she doesn’t really know who she is. She’s been told what she should be, but she doesn’t feel like that person, her brother tells her she should be, a Targaryen, a dragon. She’s spent most of her life on the run, scared of a brother who controls and terrorizes her. She was born a princess, yet she was exiled from her home, she is royalty, yet she lived in places where there were no kings or queen. She is of noble birth and yet she was poor. Like with most things regarding Dany, there is contradiction, two sides at odds with each other. These contradictions then lead her to wonder who she really is. In her very first chapter in A Game of Thrones she thinks to herself:

“Ours by blood right, taken from us by treachery, but ours still, ours forever. You do not steal from the dragon, oh, no. The dragon remembers.” And perhaps the dragon did remember, but Dany could not. She had never seen this land her brother said was theirs, this realm beyond the narrow sea.

Her brother tells her they are dragons, but she has no idea what that even means. To her the dragon is mean, brutal, the dragon hurts her; she doesn’t like the dragon she knows. It’s an abstract identity, which she has no true connection with, other than fearing it.

Let’s look at Dany’s first Dragon Dream for example:

“You woke the dragon,” he screamed as he kicked her. “You woke the dragon, you woke the dragon.” Her thighs were slick with blood. She closed her eyes and whimpered. As if in answer, there was a hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again, Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found hers, she woke, shaking and covered with a fine sheen of sweat. She had never been so afraid...

Afraid: that’s how a dragon makes her feel. She wants nothing to do with it; she doesn’t want to be hurt by it anymore.

At the time of this dream Dany had much bigger concerns than a dragon in her dream; she was being wed to the Dothraki warlord khal Drogo. This fills Dany with dread and fright. At first her marriage is very rough for Dany, she’s not accustomed to the Dothraki lifestyle and her husband is uncaring and hurts her at night. Then one day as she contemplates suicide, the dragon once again appears to her:

“Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon . Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change.”

Dany doesn’t contextualize it at the moment but she begins to understand and embrace the dragon within her. This in turn allows her to embrace her role as a khaleesi.

After the rough start with the Dothraki she learns to enjoy her new found freedom, she begins to embrace her self-importance. This allows her to take control of the situation she now found herself in, something she never had been able to do. As a khaleesi she learns that she has power where she never had it before. She uses this new found power to make khal Drogon recognize her and respect her. Having earned a role of importance and respect in the khal’s eyes and that of the khalasar she uses her new found influence to help the poor Lhazareen women who are being raped after the Dothraki sack. Her actions come from a place deep inside her. She wants to protect as she was never protected.

After the death of the khal she uses her role as a khaleesi to free the slaves that have remained behind, creating her own (little) khalasar.

Dany’s embrace of the role of a khaleesi might have been instrumental in giving her the confidence and assertiveness she needed in order to hatch the dragons. When she started this journey she started is afraid of the dragon but by the time she reaches the pyre, her fears have been dispelled, she can embrace it without fearing it, at least for a time.

“The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don’t you see? Don’t you SEE?”

We next find Dany embracing her role as the Mother of Dragons. This role is actually tied into her overall identity as a dragon. It’s actually integral to it. While being a khaleesi gave her the confidence she needed, becoming the Mother of Dragon was physical representation of the self-identity she was building. She was a khaleesi by virtue of who she was married to, but she became the Mother of Dragons by virtue of who she was.

As the new leader of khalasar Dany knows that she’s responsible not only for herself but those who follow her:

“The blood of the dragon must not be afraid. Dany said a quick prayer, begging the Warrior for courage and the Dothraki horse god for strength. She made herself walk forward.”

...

“They are not strong, she told herself, so I must be their strength. I must show no fear, no weakness, no doubt.”

She draws on her inner strength, on being a dragon in order to inspire her people through a very rough journey. This need / want to help and inspire people will lead her to another important element of her identity, that of a Mother / Mhysa. This need to protect is born out of her own person and tragic experience, the lost of her own child and her own abusive childhood. She wants to do for others what was not done for her and as she could no save her own child, she wants to save others.

We see her display this protectiveness first with the Lhazareen but more prominently when she arrives in Salver’s Bay. After seeing the atrocities perpetuated on the Unsullied, her need to protect kicks in. She is deafly afraid but decides that she needs to free them:

“Dany mounted her silver. She could feel her heart thumping in her chest. She felt desperately afraid. Was this what my brother would have done? She wondered if Prince Rhaegar had been this anxious when he saw the Usurper’s host formed up across the Trident with all their banners floating on the wind.”

After the events in Astapor, Dany moves on to Yunkai, where after freeing the salves they begin to call her Mhysa, mother.

“Mhysa!” a brown-skinned man shouted out at her. He had a child on his shoulder, a little girl, and she screamed the same word in her thin voice. “Mhysa! Mhysa!” Dany looked at Missandei. “What are they shouting?” “It is Ghiscari, the old pure tongue. It means ‘Mother.’ ” Dany felt a lightness in her chest. I will never bear a living child, she remembered. Her hand trembled as she raised it. Perhaps she smiled. She must have, because the man grinned and shouted again, and others took up the cry. “Mhysa!” they called. “Mhysa! MHYSA!”

...

Ser Jorah urged her to go, but Dany remembered a dream she had dreamed in the House of the Undying. “They will not hurt me,” she told him. “They are my children, Jorah.” She laughed, put her heels into her horse, and rode to them, the bells in her hair ringing sweet victory. She trotted, then cantered, then broke into a gallop, her braid streaming behind. The freed slaves parted before her. “Mother,” they called from a hundred throats, a thousand, ten thousand. “Mother,” they sang, their fingers brushing her legs as she flew by. “Mother, Mother, Mother!”

For Dany this is a moment of great elation, not only has she freed the slaves but their call to their mother fills Dany with great joy. This is an interesting opposition to her victory and elation in Astapor where her moment of victory was embodied by her dragon side while this moment is embodied by the part of her that craves being a mothers.

Her time in Meereen is an important development for Dany and her search for her identity. Because although her actions in Astapor and Yunkai brought her great joy the repercussion of those actions brought her immense grief. She begins to doubt herself, which is illustrated in her inability to control her dragons:

“Mother of dragons, Daenerys thought. Mother of monsters. What have I unleashed upon the world? A queen I am, but my throne is made of burned bones, and it rests on quicksand. Without dragons, how could she hope to hold Meereen, much less win back Westeros? I am the blood of the dragon, she thought. If they are monsters, so am I.”

Her entire ADWD arc is an identity crisis for Dany. She had gone from a young girl who didn’t really know herself to understanding and embracing her role as a leader and a dragon. However, just as she had used her dragons to protect she had also used them to destroy. That destruction in turn made her question what she was, what she had become. She focused on what she had destroyed, and ignored what she had created.

In response to this identity crisis she chains away her dragon and thus chains away a part of herself. However, throughout ADWD and especially towards the end, she begins to realize that what she had created, the freedom from slavery was being unraveled right before her eyes. In a moment of epiphany she thinks to herself:

“I am not your mother, she might have shouted, back, I am the mother of your slaves, of every boy who ever died upon these sands whilst you gorged on honeyed locusts.”

This realization starts a larger realization that she cannot be a mother without her dragons, that if she wanted to be a mother and protect her children she had to also be a dragon as well. This final epiphany culminates in her Vision Quest in the Dothraki sea:

“No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words. “Fire and Blood,” Daenerys told the swaying grass.”

Jon

For Jon his identity was chosen for him long before he was old enough to understand what it even meant. But once he realized what it meant to be a bastard, he was never allowed to forget it. This identity was ever present in his mind. At Winterfell, he was Jon Snow, not Stark, a member of the family and yet separate from them. At the Wall he became Lord Snow, still a bastard but also an acknowledgement of his nobel birth. He had hoped that at the Wall he could be like everyone else, but once again he was not allowed to forget the circumstances of his birth. In an ironic contrast in his time with the Wildings being a bastard was not an issue but being a crow was.

Although Jon does not hide the fact that he’s a bastard, being one has taken an obvious toll on him. He suffers deeply because of the nature of his birth and the loneliness and outsider status that comes with it. But he also suffers from not knowing who his mother was, for having that constant void in his heart. Not knowing who she was, what kind of person she was also plays into his identity. He dreams that she is a high born lady:

“Not my mother, Jon thought stubbornly. He knew nothing of his mother; Eddard Stark would not talk of her. Yet he dreamed of her at times, so often that he could almost see her face. In his dreams, she was beautiful, and highborn, and her eyes were kind.”

But being a son born out of wedlock gives the impression to the world that she could not possibly be a lady. Jon wants to make his father proud, so that he does not have any further shame from having fathered a bastard.

“He was no true Stark, had never been one … but he could die like one. Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three.”

This creates a lot of inner turmoil within Jon. He constantly tries to live up the lessons he learned from his father, to live up the the Stark name, even if he could never be a Stark. Every time he fails it weights heavily on him. In a sad sort of way, he works towards being the best bastard he could be.

Being a bastard and the negative connotations that comes with that has not been all bad for Jon. in the more abstract sense that is. Being a bastard has made Jon more aware of the world around him in a way his siblings have not had to become aware. From a young age he had to learn that society places values on all manner of things, most especially (for the noble society he was born into) your birth. Having this awareness gave him an insight, that most people his age lack. As Bran says at the beginning of A Game of Thrones:

“No,” Jon Snow said quietly. “It was not courage. This one was dead of fear. You could see it in his eyes, Stark.” Jon’s eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see.”

This will be a recurring heme within Jon story, to see things others neglect or to see things in a different way than most people. This particular ability will become very useful throughout his time at the Wall.

As Jon arrives at the Watch, he believes that he will be able to gain a new identity as a man of the Night’s Watch, putting behind his bastard identity and being just like everyone else. However, he soon realizes, curtesy of Ser Alliser Thorne, that his status as a bastard will not be forgotten.

Although this is incredibly frustrating for Jon, he knows he has to make the most of it. He is a bastard and a lord, there is no running from that. As Tyrion says to him:

“And the grumkins and the snarks,” Tyrion said. “Let us not forget them, Lord Snow, or else what’s that big thing for?” “Don’t call me Lord Snow.” The dwarf lifted an eyebrow. “Would you rather be called the Imp? Let them see that their words can cut you, and you’ll never be free of the mockery. If they want to give you a name, take it, make it your own. Then they can’t hurt you with it anymore.”

Of course being a bastard gave Jon a giant chip over his shoulder but he soon realizes that even as a bastard he has known the kind of privilege most of his fellow recruits could only dream of. As Donal Noye tells him:

“Donal Noye leaned forward, into Jon’s face. “Now think on this, boy. None of these others have ever had a master-at-arms until Ser Alliser. Their fathers were farmers and wagonmen and poachers, smiths and miners and oars on a trading galley. What they know of fighting they learned between decks, in the alleys of Oldtown and Lannisport, in wayside brothels and taverns on the kingsroad. They may have clacked a few sticks together before they came here, but I promise you, not one in twenty was ever rich enough to own a real sword.” His look was grim. “So how do you like the taste of your victories now, Lord Snow?”

“Don’t call me that!” Jon said sharply, but the force had gone out of his anger. Suddenly he felt ashamed and guilty. “I never … I didn’t think …”

“Best you start thinking,” Noye warned him. “That, or sleep with a dagger by your bed. Now go.”

Jon being the quick study that he is take this advice to heart and decides that he can use his skills as Lord Snow to help his fellow recruits. He soon becomes a leader amongst them.

Jon continues on his training intent on being a man of the Watch and once Jon says is oath he attempts to leave his old identity behind as a bastard of Winterfell behind, he will struggle with it, but his commitment to his new identity is there. It is interesting to note that as soon as Jon is done reciting his vows Ghost comes to him with a frozen hand, sort of in recognition and what Jon’s new role is.

His identity is challenged once again when he finds himself amongst the Wildings. They who had been the enemy of the North and the Nights Watch. Jon now finds himself needing to pretend to be one of them. In an interesting turn of events he uses his status as a bastard to gain the confidence of the Wilding leader Mance Rayder and be allowed to join the Wildlings.

“Jon took another swallow of mead. There is only one tale that he might believe. “You say you were at Winterfell, the night my father feasted King Robert.” “I did say it, for I was.”

“Then you saw us all. Prince Joffrey and Prince Tommen, Princess Myrcella, my brothers Robb and Bran and Rickon, my sisters Arya and Sansa. You saw them walk the center aisle with every eye upon them and take their seats at the table just below the dais where the king and queen were seated.”

“I remember.”

“And did you see where I was seated, Mance?” He leaned forward. “Did you see where they put the bastard?” Mance Rayder looked at Jon’s face for a long moment.

“I think we had best find you a new cloak,” the king said, holding out his hand.

Jon puts on his new cloak but keeps his old one in his bag. Although, he’s taking on the new identity of a Wilding, he’s not letting go of his identity as a man of the Watch. His duty ever present in his mind. As Jon tries to become part of the Wildings he finds ironically enough that his status as a former crow is worst then his status as a bastard.

Learning about the Wildings and integrating himself to their culture helped greatly by his relationship with Ygritte.. She teaches him how to fit in and how to see the world from a different perspective.

His inner turmoil over his mission becomes more conflictive as he falls in love with Ygritte. He doesn’t know who he is anymore, he calls himself an oathbreaker a turncoat but his self-rapprochement is quickly quieted when he’s with Ygritte:

“Two hearts that beat as one. Mance Rayder’s mocking words rang bitter in his head. Jon had seldom felt so confused. I have no choice, he’d told himself the first time, when she slipped beneath his sleeping skins. If I refuse her, she will know me for a turncloak. I am playing the part the Halfhand told me to play.

A part, he tried to remind himself afterward. I am playing a part. I had to do it once, to prove I’d abandoned my vows. I had to make her trust me.

I am a man of the Night’s Watch, a small voice inside insisted, but every night it seemed a little fainter, and when Ygritte kissed his ears or bit his neck, he could not hear it at all.”

Eventually he decides that he cannot abandon his duties, that he must be a man of the Nights Watch. This is an incredibly painful decision for Jon, betraying the woman he loves but he knows that he cannot abandon his vows, not at this moment at least. And so then he leaves behind his identity as a Wilding and once again he puts his Night Watchmen cat on.

With Stannis’ offer Jon finds himself once again reevaluating who is is, who he wants to be. Is he a Snow, a Stark or is he a man of the Night’s Watch.

“I offered you a name.” “

I have a name, Your Grace.”

“Snow. Was ever a name more ill-omened?” Stannis touched his sword hilt. “Just who do you imagine that you are?”

“The watcher on the walls. The sword in the darkness.”

Jon asserts himself as a man of the Watch when he refuses Stannis offer for legitimacy. Becoming a Stark is something Jon has dreamed about his whole life but he know this is not the way to obtain that. He has made vows to the Old Gods and he intends to keep them. The unexpected arrival of Ghost reminds him of this.

By Jon sticking to his vows he actually reaffirms part of his Starkness, the lessons his father thought him, that he has to be a man of his word. This is also an important part of his identity and something he is unwilling to let go of. Throughout his ADWD he goes about his role as a leader. As the new Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch he can’t concern himself with being a bastard or dwell too much on the what if’s of becoming Lord of Winterfell. He comes to accept that he’s a bastard but he learns not to allow it to define who he is as a person. He wants his actions and deeds to speak to the kind of man he is.

Dany and Jon

While Dany was looking to define her identity, Jon was looking to redefine his. Throughout the series they search for their purpose, who they are, what they are suppose to do. Dany is told from a childhood that she’s a dragon, however, she doesn’t understand what that really meant. When her brother was a “dragon” he was abusive, that’s not what she wanted to be. However, as she gains confidence and power throughout the series, she learns that being a dragon can be so much more than being a bully. She takes the idea of being a dragon and decides that she’s going to be a defender, a protector of those who cannot defend themselves. Being a protector, however, comes with elements that can be sometime unsavory yet throughout her experience in Meereen she realizes that she can either let things be, let the status quo stay, or she can embrace who she believes herself to be. In the end she accepts her identity as a dragon, a mother, a protector of her people.

Jon has been told since he was a child that he’s a bastard but unlike Dany he knows exactly what this mean. Throughout the series he goes through different stages, he wants to ignore by joining the Nights Watch but when that doesn't happened he regresses to being angry about it, as he has been since childhood. Yet he learns from his mentors that he must embrace it or other’s will continue to use it against him. So, slowly he learns not to let it bother him and even learning to use it in his favor when he joins the Wildings. As he continues to mature he comes to accept it but learns not to allow it to define who he is. He becomes a leader a man people want to follow.

Another underlining theme in Dany and Jon’s search for their identity is that they want to honor those who came before them. Dany who didn’t know her family wants to live up to the stories and histories she heard as a child. Her actions are meant to honor her family, to regain what was taken from them. Jon on the other hand want to show that he is more than a bastard that he can make his father proud. Although as a man of the Watch you are supposed to leave your old loyalties behind, Jon holds on to the lessons he learned from his father.

This theme goes even further when we note that both Dany and Jon are changing practices started by their distant ancestors. While Dany uses her dragons to free slaves, where once Valyrian used them to enslave. Jon is brining the Free-folk back into the realm of men where once the old Starks separated them.

The Wild Barbarian

As a cornerstone of their search for their identity there is a love story, a tragic love story but a love story nonetheless. Both Dany and Jon find themselves involved in a romance with someone who is considered by many to be from a wild or barbaric culture. The way they find themselves in these relationship are less than ideal. While Dany was sold to khal Drogo, Jon was initially taken by the Wildings and then in turn joined them in order to spy on them. Although Ygritte aggressively pursue the relationship, Jon didn’t protest too much.

However, even with the unusual manner both relationship started both Dany and Jon formed true and long lasting bonds with their lovers. These relationships allowed them to grow and to see the world from a completely different prospective. The people they were when they began these relationship were not the same by the end. Not only did the relationship allow them to evolve but it allowed them to see themselves through someone else eyes.

For Dany becoming part of the Dothraki was a much more involved experience than Jon’s time with the Wildings. Unlike Jon, she thought that she was joining the Dothraki for life. At first their customs, language and manners were completely alien to her. But as she began to embrace her new husband and his people, she decided that she should act like them as well:

“This night we must go outside, my lord,” she told him, for the Dothraki believed that all things of importance in a man’s life must be done beneath the open sky. Khal Drogo followed her out into the moonlight, the bells in his hair tinkling softly. A few yards from her tent was a bed of soft grass, and it was there that Dany drew him down. When he tried to turn her over, she put a hand on his chest. “No,” she said. “This night I would look on your face.”

There is no privacy in the heart of the khalasar. Dany felt the eyes on her as she undressed him, heard the soft voices as she did the things that Doreah had told her to do. It was nothing to her. Was she not khaleesi?”

Here she is taking her life in her hands and doing something no Westerosi girl would ever think of doing, making love to her husband under the stars for all the world to see. If she wants to survive in this new world she finds herself in, she knows she needs to embrace it. In contrast to this, her brother was never willing to embrace the Dothraki culture and it ended up taking his life.

Dany’s time with the Dothraki comes to a tragic end with the death of khal Drogo but the lessons she learn and the strength she gather from her time with them are still a part of her.

For Jon the cultural shock was not as great, he shared a common land and a common language with the Wildings. However, culturally they were quite different. While teaching Ygritte about the constellations he has learned from Maester Luwin he realizes that your perspective is heavily influenced by where you stand:

"So many stars, he thought as he trudged up the slope through pines and firs and ash. Maester Luwin had taught him his stars as a boy in Winterfell; he had learned the names of the twelve houses of heaven and the rulers of each; he could find the seven wanderers sacred to the Faith; he was old friends with the Ice Dragon, the Shadowcat, the Moonmaid, and the Sword of the Morning. All those he shared with Ygritte, but not some of the others. We look up at the same stars, and see such different things. The King’s Crown was the Cradle, to hear her tell it; the Stallion was the Horned Lord; the red wanderer that septons preached was sacred to their Smith up here was called the Thief. And when the Thief was in the Moonmaid, that was a propitious time for a man to steal a woman, Ygritte insisted. “Like the night you stole me. The Thief was bright that night.”

They see the same things and yet think of them in completely different ways as each has given the stats different attributes. However, as he continues to spend more time with the Wilding, he begins to identify with them:

“Such ground made for slow riding, but offered easy concealment for those wishing to approach the Wall unseen.

For wildling raiders, he thought. Like us. Like me.”

However, even with the temptation of being with the woman he loves he knows that he cannot remain with the Windings forever. Jon escapes back to Castle Black, back to his brothers at the Night’s Watch.

This leads us to yet another parallel between Dany and Jon, how they are both indirectly responsible and are still haunted by the lost of their lovers. For Dany, the desperation of losing khal Drogo to the infection that was killing him pushes her to do a deal with the devil, if you will. Dany at this moment is so full of grief and despair that she does not realize what is actually happening, what Mirri is really doing, what she is truly proposing.

“The time for that is past, my lady,” Mirri said. “All I can do now is ease the dark road before him, so he might ride painless to the night lands. He will be gone by morning.”

Her words were a knife through Dany’s breast. What had she ever done to make the gods so cruel? She had finally found a safe place, had finally tasted love and hope. She was finally going home. And now to lose it all … “No,” she pleaded. “Save him, and I will free you, I swear it. You must know a way … some magic, some …”

“Am I?” Mirri Maz Duur smiled. “Only a maegi can save your rider now, Silver Lady.” “Is there no other way?”

“No other.”

Khal Drogo gave a shuddering gasp.

“Do it,” Dany blurted. She must not be afraid; she was the blood of the dragon. “Save him.”

Of course by the time we reach this moment, khal Drogo is quite ill due to his own negligence but the spell cast by Mirri eliminated any chance of survival, leaving Drogo a zombie. Dany is later force to euthanize him:

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” she said sadly. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When my womb quickens again, and I bear a living child. Then you will return, my sun-and-stars, and not before.

“Never, the darkness cried, never never never.

Inside the tent Dany found a cushion, soft silk stuffed with feathers. She clutched it to her breasts as she walked back out to Drogo, to her sun-and-stars. If I look back I am lost. It hurt even to walk, and she wanted to sleep, to sleep and not to dream. She knelt, kissed Drogo on the lips, and pressed the cushion down across his face.”

Even throughout ADWD long after Drogo has died and Dany has fallen in love (or lust) once again she still thinks of him. During her Vision Quest in the Dothraki sea she thinks back to the events leading to his death and to when they would be reunited once again:

“But in the Red Waste, all her joy had turned to ashes. Her sun-and-stars had fallen from his horse, the maegi Mirri Maz Duur had murdered Rhaego in her womb, and Dany had smothered the empty shell of Khal Drogo with her own two hands.”

…

“Bells, Dany thought, smiling, remembering Khal Drogo, her sun-and-stars, and the bells he braided into his hair. When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, when my womb quickens again and I bear a living child, Khal Drogo will return to me.”

For Jon the betrayal was active, he knew that if he went back to the Night’s Watch and warned them of the coming Wilding army he was sealing Ygirtte’s fate. As the Watch and the Wildings do battle Jon stumbles upon a dying Ygritte:

“You’ll see a hundred castles,” he promised her. “The battle’s done. Maester Aemon will see to you.” He touched her hair. “You’re kissed by fire, remember? Lucky. It will take more than an arrow to kill you. Aemon will draw it out and patch you up, and we’ll get you some milk of the poppy for the pain.” She just smiled at that. “D’you remember that cave? We should have stayed in that cave. I told you so.”

“We’ll go back to the cave,” he said. “You’re not going to die, Ygritte. You’re not.”

“Oh.” Ygritte cupped his cheek with her hand. “You know nothing, Jon Snow,” she sighed, dying.”

Like Dany, he also sadly held is love as she lay dying. Jon feels a great deal of grief and guilt abut Ygritte’s death:

“His crutch slipped and he fell to his knees. The crypts were growing darker. A light has gone out somewhere. “Ygritte?” he whispered. “Forgive me. Please.”

All throughout ADWD Jon thinks about her and what she thought him. As he struggles through he new role as a leader, he repeats to himself Ygritte’s iconic phrase:

“There were nights when Jon Snow wondered if he had not made a grievous mistake by preventing Stannis from marching all the wildlings off to be slaughtered. I know nothing, Ygritte, he thought, and perhaps I never will.”

These two loves have made a lasting impression on Dany and Jon. The time they spent with them although brief was transformative. I think a good deal of why they were so influential in Dany and Jon’s lives is because at the time Dany and Jon where still trying to find themselves, they were both vulnerable and these relationship gave them strength.

Duty vs. Love

On a final note both Dany and Jon have had to sacrifice what they love for the greater good, choosing duty over lover.

Duty vs. Honor and Duty vs. Love are major themes throughout the series, basically trying to answer the question of what is the right thing to do. In most instances we can argue from both sides and come up with different answer. Yet the question remains, what is the right thing to do.

For Dany the crossroad of what to do was never more difficult then her time in Meereen, where she struggled tremendously and in the end when asked the question she chose duty, because as she had told herself once “a queen does not belong to herself but to her people.”

She chose to forsake her personal wants and marry one of the leaders of the slaving families Hizdahr zo Loraq, This is a man whose philosophy and chosen way a life she despised, yet she saw no other way to bring peace to her city than by sacrificed herself in order to help her people. Although her action and sacrifice a laudable one can question whether this was the right course of action for Dany, if she should not have looked at other options. However, whatever option where available to Dany she was trapped in between a rock and a hard place.

We have been discussing Jon’s choice of siding with the Night’s Watch over the Wilding’s. Although a very hard choice for Jon, due to his love of Ygritte, he had very few options available to him. He had neither the power nor the influence to try to broker a peace between these two groups. He either warned the the Night’s Watch as he did or he allowed the Wildings to slaughter the Watch. In the end he chose to keep to his vows to remain at the Watch and do his duty to defend the realm of men.

Conclusion

Throughout the series we have seen these two young protagonist speak and learn about themselves. Their experiences has shaped them in similar ways, they have learned about themselves, about what kind of people they are, what kind of people they wish to be. And while their identities are much more defined by the end of Dance, I would not be surprised to see a further evolution as they experience new trials and tribulations.

[BearQueen87]

Complimentary Counterparts

The Parallel Journey of Daenerys Targaryen & Jon Snow

Essay II: Who Am I?

Excellent job, as always, MOIAF!

Throughout the series Dany finds herself in different roles, khaleesi, Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains, Mhysa, Queen of Mereen, and threw them she seeks to find and eventually come to terms with who she really is, a dragon. On the other hand, Jon who’s already been given the “identity” as a bastard, seeks to come to terms with it, but also tries to move beyond it, to prove himself to be more than just the bastard of Winterfell.

I have nothing to add here, but just wanted to say that I thought this paragraph does a really superb job of highlighting Dany and Jon's identity crisis.

Her brother tells her they are dragons, but she has no idea what that even means. To her the dragon is mean, brutal, the dragon hurts her; she doesn’t like the dragon she knows. It’s an abstract identity, which she has no true connection with, other than fearing it.

It's interesting that when she does figure out that she's the Dragon Queen, her modus operandi is to do the opposite of whatever Viserys would have done. Viserys was cruel and mean and hurts those who are weaker and smaller than he--Dany steadfastly refuses to do any of those things. Instead her own inner dragon becomes a "rescuer" as Tyrion puts it.

“Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon . Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change.”

This is some pretty important imagery when it comes to Dany's identity as a dragon; on the one hand, this is a fairly violent scene. There is fire and skin being burned away (which we see acted out with Stannis and Mel and how terrible burning alive really is). The language is harsh--scour, sear, blacken, slough away, boil. All words that bring pain and torture to mind. Yet, on the other hand, instead of it being a moment of terror, it's renewal. It's about life. Isn't that exactly who Dany is in the end? Destruction and Creation in perfect harmony? Out with the old frightened child who lived in fear of everything around her, and in with the dragon queen who tries to save the world, one helpless soul at a time?

She was a khaleesi by virtue of who she was married to, but she became the Mother of Dragons by virtue of who she was

And by virtue of what she does. Being Khaleesi, at first, is a passive role. Dany was not the acting agent--she (quite literally) sold to Drogo and had no choice in being his wife. She even tells Viserys that she doesn't want to be Drogo's bride. Now, after the dragon dreams, she makes being Khaleesi something powerful and wonderful, but the role was given to her instead of her taking it. She makes herself the mother of dragons by her own actions--she walks into that fire, no one forces her. She believes strongly enough that it is something she is meant to do.

Her entire ADWD arc is an identity crisis for Dany. She had gone from a young girl who didn’t really know herself to understanding and embracing her role as a leader and a dragon. However, just as she had used her dragons to protect she had also used them to destroy. That distraction in turn made her question what she was, what she had become. She focused on what she had destroyed, and ignored what she had created.

She also finds little pleasure in the destruction. Dany hasn't become Aerys II or even Viserys who would have gladly burned Westeros to the ground if it meant getting back the Iron Throne. Now, we contend quite a bit that destruction of Slaver's Bay is necessary--and I agree because from that destruction comes renewal and rebirth. But it's the attitude Dany adopts during said destruction that really demonstrates her identity as someone who is "above all else, a rescuer." She isn't going to destroy Slaver's Bay because she enjoys watching fire spread over a continent. She's not doing it because she wants to see people suffer. Dany isn't Cersei who looks upon the burning tower of the Hand and thinks about how glorious it is. In her heart of hearts, she's still someone who is trying to take care of others but unlike in the fairy tale stories, she can't do it without there being some sweeping destruction first. I have come to really believe that GRRM wants us to question how we define heroes, realistically. If you do things that are "bad" (a highly subjective term) but for the right reasons and for the greater good, are you a hero? Can you sacrifice so much and still save the world and be called a hero? That's another really important theme for Dany and I'd wager for Jon once we get into Winds and ADOS territory. I would call them both heroes. But being a hero doesn't mean that you always do the moral and just thing. It means knowing when you have to destroy, and when you have to create.

At the Wall he became Lord Snow, still a bastard but also an acknowledgement of his nobel birth. He had hoped that at the Wall he could be like everyone else, but once again he was not allowed to forget the circumstances of his birth. In an ironic contrast in his time with the Wildings being a bastard was not an issue but being a crow was.

Yes his opening time at the Wall, in AGOT prior to making friends, is hard for him. This time, it's not necessarily that he's a bastard, it's that he's a high born bastard. There are plenty of bastards at the Wall. But very few of them got the privilege of being raised in a castle with plenty of food and education. If Jon had just been another low born bastard, his first few months at the Wall would have been no big deal--but he stands out; he is marked.

“No,” Jon Snow said quietly. “It was not courage. This one was dead of fear. You could see it in his eyes, Stark.” Jon’s eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see.”

Just want to point out that this is something Dany and Jon have in common--they see everything around them, particularly in contrast with someone who is incapable of seeing. Robb cannot see what is in front of him, but Jon can. Viserys cannot see everything that is slimy and suspect about Illyrio, but Dany notices everything about the Pentoshi tradesmen and he's obviously lying to them about the nature of Westeros.

Sidenote: I'd say Bran has this unique characterization as well, especially at the end of ADWD when his status becomes someone who will literally be able to see everything by virtue of the weirnet and his warging abilities.

Jon puts on his new cloak but keeps his old one in his bag. Although, he’s taking on the new identity of a Wilding, he’s not letting go of his identity as a man of the Watch. His duty ever present in his mind. As Jon tries to become part of the Wildings he finds ironically enough that his status as a former crow is worst then his status as a bastard.

Similarly: Dany puts on a tokar but keeps her dragons nearby (if chained). Or she adopts the clothing of the Dothraki, but is constantly holding/stroking her dragon eggs.

“Snow. Was ever a name more ill-omened?” Stannis touched his sword hilt. “Just who do you imagine that you are?”

“The watcher on the walls. The sword in the darkness.”

Quite possibly my very favorite Jon moment.

These two loves have made a lasting impression on Dany and Jon. The time they spent with them although brief was transformative. I think a good deal of why they were so influential in Dany and Jon’s lives is because at the time Dany and Jon where still trying to find themselves, they were both vulnerable and these relationship gave them strength.

I don't have a whole lot to add here but this was a nice section detailing the love of Dany/Drogo and Jon/Ygritte. I'd just point out that Jon and Dany both fell in love with someone who had a very different approach to Westeros than what Jon and Dany wanted themselves. Jon wants to protect Westeros, Ygriite wants to run it over and take down the Wall. Dany wants to rule Westeros as a good queen, but Drogo speaks about burning the cities and raping Westeros's women. I think it goes to show that love is more complicated than falling for someone who is like you in every way.

Throughout the series we have seen these two young protagonist speak and learn about themselves. Their experiences has shaped them in similar ways, they have learned about themselves, about what kind of people they are, what kind of people they wish to be. And while their identities are much more defined by the end of Dance, I would not be surprised to see a further evolution as they experience new trials and tribulations.

Agreed about that last part especially. Jon still has to learn who his parents are, for a start, as well as accept whatever prophetic role he may or may not have. The same could be said of Dany if she becomes TSTMTW.

Once again, nice job MOIAF!

[MoIaF]

Excellent job, as always, MOIAF!

Thanks! :love:

I have nothing to add here, but just wanted to say that I thought this paragraph does a really superb job of highlighting Dany and Jon's identity crisis.

As I had mentioned at the beginning of the last essay, I've had a really hard time writing these essays. I can talk about either character (Dany more so than Jon) at any time, I think I know them pretty well but when I sat down and tried to figure out how to organize and focus the essays, I had a really hard time.

When thinking about their identity and how it's been developed throughout the series, there is a lot of way you can go with it. For example, I really enjoyed how you discussed Arya and Dany's identity through the clothes they wear and the characters they play. And to an extent you can do that with Dany and Jon as well. The clothes they've worn (Dany more so than Jon) has helped identify them throughout the series. Dany playing her different roles and Jon tried to embody his different roles, however, much like Dany there is a core to his identity. I decided to go a different way but I think that way would be interesting as well.

It's interesting that when she does figure out that she's the Dragon Queen, her modus operandi is to do the opposite of whatever Viserys would have done. Viserys was cruel and mean and hurts those who are weaker and smaller than he--Dany steadfastly refuses to do any of those things. Instead her own inner dragon becomes a "rescuer" as Tyrion puts it.

As I was writing the essay that really became clear to me. I had discussed in the past the irony of Dany using her dragons to free slaves, whereas Valyrian's used them to enslave people. And that extended to how Dany envisions the role of a dragon in general. I believe she called herself an "avenging angel" once when she got to Meereen. Whatever you may say of her Dany wants justice, she wants to even out the playing field. She's to young and she hasn't really hasn't developed a cohesive philosophy but innately she knows what the right thing to do is. How to do it, is a different story.

This is some pretty important imagery when it comes to Dany's identity as a dragon; on the one hand, this is a fairly violent scene. There is fire and skin being burned away (which we see acted out with Stannis and Mel and how terrible burning alive really is). The language is harsh--scour, sear, blacken, slough away, boil. All words that bring pain and torture to mind. Yet, on the other hand, instead of it being a moment of terror, it's renewal. It's about life. Isn't that exactly who Dany is in the end? Destruction and Creation in perfect harmony? Out with the old frightened child who lived in fear of everything around her, and in with the dragon queen who tries to save the world, one helpless soul at a time?

Mother and Dragon - Creator and Destroyer. I heard two awesome chick wrote and essay about this. ;)

And by virtue of what she does. Being Khaleesi, at first, is a passive role. Dany was not the acting agent--she (quite literally) sold to Drogo and had no choice in being his wife. She even tells Viserys that she doesn't want to be Drogo's bride. Now, after the dragon dreams, she makes being Khaleesi something powerful and wonderful, but the role was given to her instead of her taking it. She makes herself the mother of dragons by her own actions--she walks into that fire, no one forces her. She believes strongly enough that it is something she is meant to do.

It was always inside of her, she just needed to bring it forth. I think that was what the events of the pyre where all about. Being khaleesi allowed her to see that she had that inner strength, had she never been a khaleesi she might not have ever allowed her inner dragon to emerge.

She also finds little pleasure in the destruction. Dany hasn't become Aerys II or even Viserys who would have gladly burned Westeros to the ground if it meant getting back the Iron Throne. Now, we contend quite a bit that destruction of Slaver's Bay is necessary--and I agree because from that destruction comes renewal and rebirth. But it's the attitude Dany adopts during said destruction that really demonstrates her identity as someone who is "above all else, a rescuer." She isn't going to destroy Slaver's Bay because she enjoys watching fire spread over a continent. She's not doing it because she wants to see people suffer. Dany isn't Cersei who looks upon the burning tower of the Hand and thinks about how glorious it is. In her heart of hearts, she's still someone who is trying to take care of others but unlike in the fairy tale stories, she can't do it without there being some sweeping destruction first. I have come to really believe that GRRM wants us to question how we define heroes, realistically. If you do things that are "bad" (a highly subjective term) but for the right reasons and for the greater good, are you a hero? Can you sacrifice so much and still save the world and be called a hero? That's another really important theme for Dany and I'd wager for Jon once we get into Winds and ADOS territory. I would call them both heroes. But being a hero doesn't mean that you always do the moral and just thing. It means knowing when you have to destroy, and when you have to create.

Very well said! This is why I'm such a fan of Dany's, she isn't perfect not by a mile, but she's a hero. She does things that no one else would dare to do, that people would turn a blind eye to because they don't want to get involved. Like I said, Dany has a really hard time just letting things be. She tried it in Meereen and it didn't quite work out for her. I think for Jon after the events of Dany he will learn the power of destruction in order to create. He's stayed pretty "clean" but as the yungum's say, shit is about to get real.

Yes his opening time at the Wall, in AGOT prior to making friends, is hard for him. This time, it's not necessarily that he's a bastard, it's that he's a high born bastard. There are plenty of bastards at the Wall. But very few of them got the privilege of being raised in a castle with plenty of food and education. If Jon had just been another low born bastard, his first few months at the Wall would have been no big deal--but he stands out; he is marked.

Jon is part of a very particular niche and as a member of the niche he can't get away from it. He thought he could but life isn't that simple. The same when he was with the Wildings, he was a crow amongst people who hate crows. By the nature of who he is, he's meant to be an outsider. And it's to his credit that he's learned to deal with it. However, just because he's an outsider by nature doesn't mean he should isolate himself, which he did in Dance and was to his great determent.

Just want to point out that this is something Dany and Jon have in common--they see everything around them, particularly in contrast with someone who is incapable of seeing. Robb cannot see what is in front of him, but Jon can. Viserys cannot see everything that is slimy and suspect about Illyrio, but Dany notices everything about the Pentoshi tradesmen and he's obviously lying to them about the nature of Westeros.

Sidenote: I'd say Bran has this unique characterization as well, especially at the end of ADWD when his status becomes someone who will literally be able to see everything by virtue of the weirnet and his warging abilities.

Yes!!! This goes back to their outsider status. They learned to observe and take notes, to see how people act and react.

I don't have a whole lot to add here but this was a nice section detailing the love of Dany/Drogo and Jon/Ygritte. I'd just point out that Jon and Dany both fell in love with someone who had a very different approach to Westeros than what Jon and Dany wanted themselves. Jon wants to protect Westeros, Ygriite wants to run it over and take down the Wall. Dany wants to rule Westeros as a good queen, but Drogo speaks about burning the cities and raping Westeros's women. I think it goes to show that love is more complicated than falling for someone who is like you in every way.

Nice parallels. Yes, and this allowed them to see the world differently. You add this to their observation skills and they see the world differently than from how other people see it.

Once again, nice job MOIAF!

:blush:

[SeanF]

Thanks for this essay.

Thanks for reminding me of this passage.

Dany mounted her silver. She could feel her heart thumping in her chest. She felt desperately afraid. Was this what my brother would have done? She wondered if Prince Rhaegar had been this anxious when he saw the Usurper’s host formed up across the Trident with all their banners floating on the wind.”

I'd forgotten the exact quote, but I've always argued that Dany's action at Astapor took an enormous amount of courage, in contrast to those who think it was just a plot gift. Dany knew very well that her gamble could fail, and that she would face a terrible fate if it did. It also explains her joy and exhilaration when she realises her gamble has succeeded, and she's dealing out death to the Good Masters.

WRT Jon's bastardy, I think this is a rare example of the Show doing something better than the books. I've always thought Jon's excuse for defection (being a bastard) was quite weak, whereas in the Show, the excuse was much stronger (disgust at the readiness of the NW to ally with Craster, rather than fight the Others).

Both Jon and Dany have a good deal of admiration for the Dothraki, and Wildlings, respective, despite not sharing their values.

[BearQueen87]

When thinking about their identity and how it's been developed throughout the series, there is a lot of way you can go with it. For example, I really enjoyed how you discussed Arya and Dany's identity through the clothes they wear and the characters they play. And to an extent you can do that with Dany and Jon as well. The clothes they've worn (Dany more so than Jon) has helped identify them throughout the series. Dany playing her different roles and Jon tried to embody his different roles, however, much like Dany there is a core to his identity. I decided to go a different way but I think that way would be interesting as well.

Now you've got me thinking about Jon's clothing. :) I think the NW has an interesting uniform. It's meant to be cohesive for the brothers--who you were before you came to the NW doesn't matter; you're all the same men in black here. For Jon, I think that's a very romantic idea. While at WF he would never have been allowed to wear the Stark grey and white or the direwolf sigil. He tells Arya that bastards get the swords but not the arms. His lack of color and sigil while at WF signals his "otherness." But in the NW there are no sigils or colors anywhere and its a strength. Everything is black and thus Jon thinks that he could finally fit in and be unmarked as "other." It doesn't exactly go according to plan when Jon arrives at the Wall, but in his almost-15 year old mind, the idea of no one having arms or colors would have stood out to him.

[MoIaF]

Now you've got me thinking about Jon's clothing. :) I think the NW has an interesting uniform. It's meant to be cohesive for the brothers--who you were before you came to the NW doesn't matter; you're all the same men in black here. For Jon, I think that's a very romantic idea. While at WF he would never have been allowed to wear the Stark grey and white or the direwolf sigil. He tells Arya that bastards get the swords but not the arms. His lack of color and sigil while at WF signals his "otherness." But in the NW there are no sigils or colors anywhere and its a strength. Everything is black and thus Jon thinks that he could finally fit in and be unmarked as "other." It doesn't exactly go according to plan when Jon arrives at the Wall, but in his almost-15 year old mind, the idea of no one having arms or colors would have stood out to him.

On a superficial level, Jon Night's Watchmen clothes are colorless, literally, they're black. While Dany has worn a plethora of colors with each new style she wears.

[MoIaF]

Thanks for this essay.

Thanks for reminding me of this passage.

Dany mounted her silver. She could feel her heart thumping in her chest. She felt desperately afraid. Was this what my brother would have done? She wondered if Prince Rhaegar had been this anxious when he saw the Usurper’s host formed up across the Trident with all their banners floating on the wind.”

I'd forgotten the exact quote, but I've always argued that Dany's action at Astapor took an enormous amount of courage, in contrast to those who think it was just a plot gift. Dany knew very well that her gamble could fail, and that she would face a terrible fate if it did. It also explains her joy and exhilaration when she realises her gamble has succeeded, and she's dealing out death to the Good Masters.

1. WRT Jon's bastardy, I think this is a rare example of the Show doing something better than the books. I've always thought Jon's excuse for defection (being a bastard) was quite weak, whereas in the Show, the excuse was much stronger (disgust at the readiness of the NW to ally with Craster, rather than fight the Others).

2. Both Jon and Dany have a good deal of admiration for the Dothraki, and Wildlings, respective, despite not sharing their values.

Thanks Sean!

Agree with you on the first part completely. It's a very flimsy excuse, especially as it's not followed by any explanation other than they made me sit in the back.

On the second part, that's very true. They can hold the opposing views that although they admire these people they don't condone everything they do.

[Seams]

The Evolution of Self

Throughout the series Dany finds herself in different roles, khaleesi, Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains, Mhysa, Queen of Mereen, and through them she seeks to find and eventually come to terms with who she really is, a dragon. On the other hand, Jon whos already been given the identity as a bastard, seeks to come to terms with it, but also tries to move beyond it, to prove himself to be more than just the bastard of Winterfell.

Great post! You do good job of detailing the varied roles Dany finds herself trying and/or mastering on her journey of self-discovery. Maybe you cover Jon's varied roles with the umbrella discussion of his coming-of-age and self-awareness experiences, but it seems like it would be worth trying to list the details here, as well.

Jon spends a lot of thought on the subject of being a "real" brother, and decides that the men of the Night's Watch are his brothers in a way that the Starks never were. Maybe this aspect of his growth includes his behavior after Donal Noye lectures him, when he takes it upon himself to help his fellow novices to improve their skills with swords. I think it almost certainly includes his rescue of Samwell Tarly. Friend and rescuer - these may be separate aspects, but could fall within the brother category at this point.

He takes his oath and becomes a member of the Night's Watch, as you mention. This is where he starts his identity as a watcher and a sword, as you cited in the exchange with Stannis.

Instead of becoming a ranger within the Watch, as he expected, Jon is made a servant to the Lord Commander. He is not happy about this, but I think GRRM puts characters such as Arya and Theon in servile roles to show how this kind of work builds character. Because of his service to Mormont, Jon is in a position to be a rescuer again, saving the Lord Commander from the murderous hand.

Soon, Jon does get his chance to become a ranger, invited to accompany Qhorin Halfhand because of his northern blood and relationship with the Old Gods.

The ranger role is abruptly ended when Jon finds he must become a killer, slaying Qhorin as a direct result of Qhorin's own order to do anything he has to in order to convince the wildlings he wants to join them.

This leads immediately to Jon's undercover experience as a wildling. In order to convince Mance and others that he is sincere about renouncing his Night's Watch vow and joining with them, Jon soon becomes a lover, realizes he enjoys this "role" very much and stops listening to the voice in his head that tells him he is still a man of the Night's Watch.

Whether Jon ever became a turncloak is subject to debate, but that's a good reason to list this role as we evaluate his growth and the identities he assumes.

Soon after returning to the Night's Watch and Castle Black, Jon becomes a battle commander when Donal Noye gives him the Wall in the absence of more senior members of the Night's Watch. Jon does a good job of mounting a defense and marshalling the troops, much to his own surprise.

His performance in holding off the wildling attack may be the turning point that leads to his next role, Lord Commander. From this seat, Jon becomes a rescuer again, negotiating terms for bringing the wildlings south of the Wall and settling them in the Gift. He also seems to rescue Dalla's baby from Melisandre. In a very unexpected turn of events, he finds himself acting as a Stark patriarch (and rescuer, again), giving Alys Karstark in marriage. He becomes a colleague (there must be a better word - peer?) of Stannis, informing him of the potential recruits among the mountain clans. He also becomes an executioner, personally beheading Janos Slynt, as his father would have advised after Jon sentences the insubordinate man to death.

Jon is planning another rescue at the end of ADWD, but instead finds he is a stabbing victim - maybe a human sacrifice? It seems likely that there will be a new and important identity or series of identities in upcoming books.

With this list as a starting point, I'll put in some more thought and see how many of these compare directly to the roles you list for Dany. Or maybe other people want to jump in and share interpretations or additions to this list.

Jon

For Jon his identity was chosen for him long before he was old enough to understand what it even meant. ... At the Wall he became Lord Snow, still a bastard but also an acknowledgement of his noble birth.

Jon puts on his new cloak but keeps his old one in his bag. Although, hes taking on the new identity of a Wilding, hes not letting go of his identity as a man of the Watch. His duty ever present in his mind. As Jon tries to become part of the Wildings he finds ironically enough that his status as a former crow is worst then his status as a bastard.

The Wild Barbarian

...Both Dany and Jon find themselves involved in a romance with someone who is considered by many to be from a wild or barbaric culture. The way they find themselves in these relationship are less than ideal. While Dany was sold to khal Drogo, Jon was initially taken by the Wildings and then in turn joined them in order to spy on them. Although Ygritte aggressively pursue the relationship, Jon didnt protest too much.

Youll see a hundred castles, he promised her. The battles done. Maester Aemon will see to you. He touched her hair. Youre kissed by fire, remember? Lucky. It will take more than an arrow to kill you. Aemon will draw it out and patch you up, and well get you some milk of the poppy for the pain. She just smiled at that. Dyou remember that cave? We should have stayed in that cave. I told you so.

Well go back to the cave, he said. Youre not going to die, Ygritte. Youre not.

Oh. Ygritte cupped his cheek with her hand. You know nothing, Jon Snow, she sighed, dying.

Great point! I never considered before that both Jon and Dany take on "wild" people as their lovers. Now that you point it out, though, it occurs to me that Jon makes a big point in one of his POVs of saying that he and Ygritte usually made love under furs, but that they finally get completely naked in the cave and that this is a new and pleasurable way of having sex. So it's interesting that Dany and Drogo have a watershed lovemaking session under the sky and naked in front of everyone, while Jon and Ygritte have their important love scene in a cave or, in other words, in the earth.

I really enjoyed how you (BearQueen87) discussed Arya and Dany's identity through the clothes they wear and the characters they play. And to an extent you can do that with Dany and Jon as well. The clothes they've worn (Dany more so than Jon) has helped identify them throughout the series.

Of course I'm still and ever fascinated by the clothing motif. As a member of the Night's Watch, there are subtle distinctions about whether Jon is wearing his armor and gloves or whether they are in his saddle bags (as when he attempts to run away and join Robb's army). As a wildling, of course, he is a wolf in sheep's skin - the cloak Mance gives him to wear is made of sheep skins. This seems important as a clue about whether Mance knows Jon is faking his newfound interest in joining the freefolk, but also as foreshadowing about Jon's abilities as a warg and skinchanger. There may also be an important link to Dany's attempt to rescue and defend the lamb men.

[BearQueen87]

Great post! You do good job of detailing the varied roles Dany finds herself trying and/or mastering on her journey of self-discovery. Maybe you cover Jon's varied roles with the umbrella discussion of his coming-of-age and self-awareness experiences, but it seems like it would be worth trying to list the details here, as well.

Jon spends a lot of thought on the subject of being a "real" brother, and decides that the men of the Night's Watch are his brothers in a way that the Starks never were. Maybe this aspect of his growth includes his behavior after Donal Noye lectures him, when he takes it upon himself to help his fellow novices to improve their skills with swords. I think it almost certainly includes his rescue of Samwell Tarly. Friend and rescuer - these may be separate aspects, but could fall within the brother category at this point.

He takes his oath and becomes a member of the Night's Watch, as you mention. This is where he starts his identity as a watcher and a sword, as you cited in the exchange with Stannis.

Instead of becoming a ranger within the Watch, as he expected, Jon is made a servant to the Lord Commander. He is not happy about this, but I think GRRM puts characters such as Arya and Theon in servile roles to show how this kind of work builds character. Because of his service to Mormont, Jon is in a position to be a rescuer again, saving the Lord Commander from the murderous hand.

Soon, Jon does get his chance to become a ranger, invited to accompany Qhorin Halfhand because of his northern blood and relationship with the Old Gods.

The ranger role is abruptly ended when Jon finds he must become a killer, slaying Qhorin as a direct result of Qhorin's own order to do anything he has to in order to convince the wildlings he wants to join them.

This leads immediately to Jon's undercover experience as a wildling. In order to convince Mance and others that he is sincere about renouncing his Night's Watch vow and joining with them, Jon soon becomes a lover, realizes he enjoys this "role" very much and stops listening to the voice in his head that tells him he is still a man of the Night's Watch.

Whether Jon ever became a turncloak is subject to debate, but that's a good reason to list this role as we evaluate his growth and the identities he assumes.

Soon after returning to the Night's Watch and Castle Black, Jon becomes a battle commander when Donal Noye gives him the Wall in the absence of more senior members of the Night's Watch. Jon does a good job of mounting a defense and marshalling the troops, much to his own surprise.

His performance in holding off the wildling attack may be the turning point that leads to his next role, Lord Commander. From this seat, Jon becomes a rescuer again, negotiating terms for bringing the wildlings south of the Wall and settling them in the Gift. He also seems to rescue Dalla's baby from Melisandre. In a very unexpected turn of events, he finds himself acting as a Stark patriarch (and rescuer, again), giving Alys Karstark in marriage. He becomes a colleague (there must be a better word - peer?) of Stannis, informing him of the potential recruits among the mountain clans. He also becomes an executioner, personally beheading Janos Slynt, as his father would have advised after Jon sentences the insubordinate man to death.

Very interesting. Let's see.

Dany starts off as a real sister, but not in the way that matters. She receives neither affection nor love from Viserys. In the span of one chapter, Dany becomes a Khaleesi, a ruler of people with whom she has no emotional connection (at first) and whom she finds strange; she is wedded to a husband that she does not love. It's interesting, Dany's "Khaleesi" is a strong identity like "watcher" or "sword" but for a brief period of time, her Khaleesi identity is devoid of any actual power. But again, over the course of one chapter, she becomes the real Khaleesi. Unlike Jon who becomes a servant, Dany becomes someone with real power who can effect change.

Then she becomes the Mother of Dragons, a person who combined death and life into one. I think you can look at this like Jon's "killer" role--he had to kill Halfhand, but it was still killing. The wildling portion might not be exact but you could talk about how Dany adopt her Dothraki riding garb in Astapor the day she goes on Dracarys on the Wise Masters.

Jon's role as battle commander reminds me of Dany's role as Mhysa. Neither sought that role, but it was given to them by others.

And finally, Jon becomes the Lord Commander and Dany becomes Queen of Meereen--both roles are far more challenging that other might imagine and they both struggle with what they want: Winterfell or to stay at the Wall? Harpy or Dragon?

[MoIaF]

Very interesting. Let's see.

Dany starts off as a real sister, but not in the way that matters. She receives neither affection nor love from Viserys. In the span of one chapter, Dany becomes a Khaleesi, a ruler of people with whom she has no emotional connection (at first) and whom she finds strange; she is wedded to a husband that she does not love. It's interesting, Dany's "Khaleesi" is a strong identity like "watcher" or "sword" but for a brief period of time, her Khaleesi identity is devoid of any actual power. But again, over the course of one chapter, she becomes the real Khaleesi. Unlike Jon who becomes a servant, Dany becomes someone with real power who can effect change.

Then she becomes the Mother of Dragons, a person who combined death and life into one. I think you can look at this like Jon's "killer" role--he had to kill Halfhand, but it was still killing. The wildling portion might not be exact but you could talk about how Dany adopt her Dothraki riding garb in Astapor the day she goes on Dracarys on the Wise Masters.

Jon's role as battle commander reminds me of Dany's role as Mhysa. Neither sought that role, but it was given to them by others.

And finally, Jon becomes the Lord Commander and Dany becomes Queen of Meereen--both roles are far more challenging that other might imagine and they both struggle with what they want: Winterfell or to stay at the Wall? Harpy or Dragon?

I'll comment more tomorrow but I just wanted to note something quickly. When Dany is Queen and Jon Lord Commander they both have their strongest allegiance with the "people" that is the many. Where they both struggle is with the "elites" that is the few. They have some allies with the few but not nearly enough.

[Drogonthedread]

anyone can help me with what are the colors of the flames of Drogon ., Rhaegal and Viserian ..is it ever mentioned in the books ..i seem to remember reading about it but i could have easily made that up ...

is it by any chance green .,blue and black or these colors in some way have some connection with the dragons

so does anyone know an answer to this ..thank you

[MoIaF]

anyone can help me with what are the colors of the flames of Drogon ., Rhaegal and Viserian ..is it ever mentioned in the books ..i seem to remember reading about it but i could have easily made that up ...

is it by any chance green .,blue and black or these colors in some way have some connection with the dragons

so does anyone know an answer to this ..thank you

They flames are the same colors as the dragons. Drogon is black and red tinged flames, Rhaegal green flames and Viserion as gold/cream flames (?).

[MoIaF]

By the way - I'll be posting the last essay in a couple of days. Thanks!

[Drogonthedread]

They flames are the same colors as the dragons. Drogon is black and red tinged flames, Rhaegal green flames and Viserion as gold/cream flames (?).

Thank you

something that Patchface says when we first see him had me intrigued ...and that was when Mel is burning the gods and Stannis pulls the lightbringer from the idol

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black,” Patchface sang somewhere. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

so i think he refers the dany's dragons at the moment of Mel speaking about lightbringer

[Nictarion]

Thank you

something that Patchface says when we first see him had me intrigued ...and that was when Mel is burning the gods and Stannis pulls the lightbringer from the idol

so i think he refers the dany's dragons at the moment of Mel speaking about lightbringer

Hmmm....this is very interesting indeed. I knew Drogon had black flames, but I wasn't aware the other 2 had distinctive flame colors of their own. If Patchface wasn't so damn creepy he would be quite an interesting character. :lol:

[BearQueen87]

I'll comment more tomorrow but I just wanted to note something quickly. When Dany is Queen and Jon Lord Commander they both have their strongest allegiance with the "people" that is the many. Where they both struggle is with the "elites" that is the few. They have some allies with the few but not nearly enough.

Yes good point. The "elites" as you put it, refuse to see a new world order, led by Jon and Dany in their respective locations. Those elites are myopically focused on the way things have been done for centuries and refuse to look forward. Given that GRRM spent time early on in AGOT establishing that both Jon and Dany can "see" what others cannot (in Bran I and in Dany I), I think that was some pretty nice foreshadowing that Dany and Jon understand that the world needs to change in order to "save it" and that you can't cling to the past.

ETA: and of course I am reminded of Jon's famous quote "Are you so blind, or is it that you do not wish to see?"

[Parwan]

By the way - I'll be posting the last essay in a couple of days. Thanks!

Okay. I'll give people a couple of days to discuss it. Then I'll post my first essay.

[MoIaF]

Okay. I'll give people a couple of days to discuss it. Then I'll post my first essay.

Go ahead and post your first essay tomorrow. Mine won't be ready and I do f want to delay the discussion any further. When I'm done with mine I'll post it.