Señor de la Tormenta Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Yeah... TWOW is taking a little to long xDAnd inspired by Aragorn vs Jaime martins own guess I thought of this thread...So, lets say Bobby B calls his banners and lands all his might to save Minas Tirith and then to fight back as far as he cans, how would it tourn out?Of course the ring is not supposed to be destroyed. Lets leave it out to make this more interesting. Aswell as sauron courrupting westerosi, since its settled thats a piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPathera Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Considering all of the in-fighting, backstabbing and scheming...I highly doubt it. Not to mention that Mordor has lots of stuff that no one in Westeros has ever encountered like uruks, orcs, wereworms, trolls, easterlings, haradrim on elephants, goblins and depending on whether you consider them servants/allies of Sauron: Smaug and a Balrog. If we're talking 3rd Age numbers, then this is a force exceeding 300,000. Not to mention that this great varied force is lead by a number of great commanders and servants of Sauron like the Witch-King; Saruman; Azog; Bolg; the Nazgul; and Gothmog. Mordor's forces are also overall more unified under Sauron's control and power and despite minor incidents here and there, they hate their master's enemies more than they hate each other. It'll be a blood and long fight, but I'm giving this one to Mordor for superior variety, shock value, superior leadership and better cohesion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 Considering all of the in-fighting, backstabbing and scheming...I highly doubt it. we must avoid that for the purpose of the thread. We all know sauron can corrupt any westerosi in 15 seconds lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 In terms of pure numbers, yes, by far. Westeros can raise nearly the same numbers Mordor can; except for the better quality of their troops compared to orcs, goblins, etc. Now, Sauron's dragons, Trolls, Nazguls and ther creatures...well, that could be risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veloknight Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Well, it seems like the Kingdoms of Westeros can each field about 20-80k troops, with 80k being the mighty Reach and 30-50k more realistic for most regions. Call it 40k a pop, minus the Ironborn for the moment, and we've got ~280k soldiers at first mustering. These soldiers will probably cut through Orcs and Uruks, but I'm not sure how the Seven Kingdoms would have a good answer to trolls, the Nazgul, or even Oliphants. Also, many of these 'special units' seem particularly useful in storming castles, making a defensive strategy very difficult. This leaves a field engagement, where Mordor's air power, disciplined troops, and hard-to-kill commanders will stiffen their lines. On the other hand, it's not clear that Morder's infantry have an effective response to massed heavy horse, as is popular in Westeros - nearly every cavalry charge in Tolkien's universe cuts Orcs to ribbons, even if the number of charging men is so small that they are also almost certainly doomed. Unless the Westerosi knights are thinly spread or poorly armored enough to take on with bows during their charge (hint: they won't be) they can do enormous damage to Mordor's infantry forces. I think Mordor wins most battles with a conservative strategy, using special forces to stiffen their lines and kill the warriors who are doing the most damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Blackfyre Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 finally an interesting thread! well, I stand for Westeros United :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdo Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Isn't this basically what we're going to find out in Dream of Spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Sure, give Jon the Ring and he can take on the Others and the Orcs! We can also add some Elves into the mix and maybe even Smaug can make a guest appearance as well. I don't see why Mordor couldn't be taken by Westeros, especially since they have three supposedly good dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 According to Atlas of Middleearth by Karen Wynn Fonstad:Mordor's forces:-at Minnas Tirith:20 000 from Minas Morgul and Barad-dûrHaradrims: 18 000Fron Rhùn and Khand: 7 000 - that gives ~ 45 - 50 000 at Minas TirithMorannon:Aragorn has 1000 riders and 6000 men-at-arms, Imrahil's knights from Dol Amroth ~ 7 - 8000 It is said that enemy has 10 times their number - we have to remember that it's Pippin's PoV so he can be wrong, but if it's true than Sauron has ~ 70 - 80 000 there, IMO 50 000 - 60 000 is more likely. There is also another host that attacks Erebor, Lorien and Dale maybe ~ 40 - 50 000 from Khand, Rhùn and Dol Guldur. During War of the Ring Sauron may have ~ 165 000, in orc's militarised culture where everone fight even 200 000 can be possible. There are also other Sauron's allies and Moria's few hundred orcs ( their loyalty isn't sure ).Mordor has extremly fertile volcanic soils near Rhùn ( slaves of Rhùn work on it ) and supplies from Eastern lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorVoid Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Well, since main power of Sauron is his ability to corrupt, he will definitely win in long term fight. They have superior commander - Sauron is much more capable strategist than any of Westerosi.His subordinates like Nazguls are pretty good to.Their special powers are kickass. Westeross army seems to be far more vulnerable to fear of Nazgul, than those of Middle earth. Westeross doesn't have supernatural forces like Huorns to fight for them. Their dragons are like flies on ME scale. Sauron's army is much more unified and disciplined. I don't see westeross winning. Just not a chance. On the other hand, it's not clear that Morder's infantry have an effective response to massed heavy horse, as is popular in Westeros - nearly every cavalry charge in Tolkien's universe cuts Orcs to ribbons, even if the number of charging men is so small that they are also almost certainly doomed. I don't remember any occasion, when orcs have lost to pure cavalry charge. Only when they were outsmarted and outflanked. 1) Helms Deep was mostly won by Ents/Huorns.2) Theoden charge was successful because he went past the scouts and flanked orks army.3) Imrahil charges did nothing extremely cool. And, well, the main thing: There are no eagles in Westeros to save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Sauron's army is much more unified and disciplined. WHAT. LOL. NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorVoid Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 WHAT. LOL. NO. You see the Witch King selling Sauron to Tywin? You see Saurons vassal to rise against him if he refuses his claim? You think that orcs are less disciplined than peasants militia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 we are discussing books, right?In PJ's Minas Tirith there are 200 - 300 000 orcs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 We can discuss Westeros' chances of winnng against Sauron, but they have no chance against Morgoth and Hosts of Angband Hosts of Angband:[4]Vanguard: 80,000—100,000. One to two Orc-hosts, each 40,000–50,000 strong - sent to provoke Fingon into a premature attack from Hithlum in the west.Centre: 150,000—300,000. Main Host - three to six Orc-hosts, each 40,000–50,000 strong - sent to overwhelm Fingon as he pursued vanguard.Reserve: 100,000 Orcs with many auxiliaries. Two to four Orc-hosts, Balrogs, Trolls, Dragons, wolves and wolfriders. Additionally some Men in the Union change sides.Casualties: 200,000Hosts of the Union of Maedhros: [6]West wing - Host of Fingon = 48,000 to 62,000Noldor of Hithlum: 20,000 to 25,000 ElvesMen of Dor-lómin: 12,000 to 15,000 Men of the House of Hador[7]Sindar of Mithrim: 1,000 to 3,000 ElvesFalas: 3,000 to 5,000 Elves ofCírdanNargothrond: 1,000 to 2,000 ElvesFolk of Brethil: 1,000 to 2,000 Folk of Haleth[8]Army of Gondolin: 10,000 Elves[9]East wing - Host of Maedhros = 45,500 to 65,000Sons of Fëanor: 15,000 to 20,000 ElvesMen of Bór: 8,000 to 10,000 MenMen of Ulfang: 10,000 to 15,000 Swarthy MenGreen Elves (Laiquendi):[10] 2,500 to 5,000[11]Dwarves: 10,000 to 15,000Casualties: 65,000+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Blackfyre Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I'm just wondering... sean bean would fight for gondor or for the north? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 You see the Witch King selling Sauron to Tywin? You see Saurons vassal to rise against him if he refuses his claim? You think that orcs are less disciplined than peasants militia? Westerosi armies are not made of peasants militia. This has been an ongoing discussion for nearly 10 years on this forum, and every single debate ends the same way: Westerosi armies are professional. I truly think Orcs are less disciplined than any Westerosi army. Any. Except the wildlings. That's why less than 3000 men at Minas Tirith killed thousands and thousands of orcs. That's why 6,000 Rohirrim kicked the ass of 18,000 Haradrim and many more orcs. Mordor armies rely on numbers, not quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I'm just wondering... sean bean would fight for gondor or for the north?He would fight for Gondor, but would have Ice and shout "Winterfell! " Tell lord Sauron "Winter is coming for you" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 we are discussing books, right?In PJ's Minas Tirith there are 200 - 300 000 orcs...yep. Books and sauron.Melkor is out of their league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdo Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I'm just wondering... sean bean would fight for gondor or for the north? You just convinced me, Westeros is toast. Their only hope is to find the Others' ring. Let Missandei take it into the Land of Endless Winter, with Hodor along to handle ice spiders. They can chuck in into a volcano. Otherwise, nightfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarkissnyder Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Please, there would be no fight. It would take Sauron about a minute to find a way to corrupt all of the leaders of the 7 kingdoms. (Gee that would be hard, right?) They would become willing vassals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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